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00:02
No party now; just me, talking to myself.
 
2 hours later…
01:40
Hmm...
Ah ha!
somebunny awake.
@J.M.: been up to anything interesting today?
Interesting? Hmm... I'm debugging a cartoon I'm going to need to answer a geometry question.
a cartoon? that sounds interesting. I'll have to look.
on MSE?
Yes. Don't get your hopes up yet, that bug I'm tracking looks subtle...
One of those "now you see it, now you don't" things.
I'll keep my fingers crossed that you see it when you're holding the fly swatter.
01:47
BTW; this was one awesome answer...
Did you happen to look at the Flajolet paper after you finished your answer?
Thanks. I looked at the paper when Mike Spivey said that they didn't match.
I went back and checked all my calculations and found a multiplication that should have been an addition. That fixed it up.
In this case, you were glad somebody did what you did earlier, then... :D
Yes, I am. However, I was going to go and check numerically, and since it was the third order term in error, I may have found it.
I see. :) Ramanujan is going to keep the lot of us occupied with his stuff...
His work is amazing indeed.
01:52
...especially since he never gave much useful stuff like derivations. Apparently we have to figure them out for ourselves. :D
yep. I have to have my derivations around so that I can go back and check (current case, for example). I can't imagine doing what he did without that.
I have to go and pick up some food. We are having guests over, and it is getting late.
see you later.
See you. Have fun!
02:29
Hi folks
I guess noone is here
I saw that @JM and @robjohn were here, and just wanted to thank them for helping me out...
I am here for a bit.
You're welcome
I assume you are referring to the erf integrals?
yup
that was one of the first questions i posted here
@rob: thanks to Bullmoose's prod, I see that I forgot to upvote one of your answers...
@J.M.: thanks, but I hope it was a good answer.
02:45
I've read it before; I just forgot to upvote it. :)
well, I am glad to be of help to someone here
Probably one of those days where I expended my votes too quickly... :)
this site is great, I just wish I knew more math to actually answer some questions on here :)
@Bull: just stick around; you might see something that you can expound on better than "experts"...
that's how I do things; sneak in on a rare occasion that I know something.
3
off to eat dinner... back in a few hours.
02:48
well, i don't know whether i'll ever get to that level
but hopefully sometime I'll be able to give something back to this community
If you stick around long enough, maybe the math will grow on you. ;)
i do enjoy figuring things out...
(Happened to me; SE taught me a lot more math than all my math classes in college.)
well, i've already learned at least two very useful things in less than a month of being here
(The Lambert W function and the Entropy Power Inequality)
It means the site is working for you as intended. ;)
02:51
yeah, I'm certainly very glad I found it
Ah Lambert. I feel a bit bad that it's still so obscure after all these years...
and today I learned what Cauchy Principal Value is
this stuff was never taught to me in college...
nor in grad school (though I haven't taken courses from the Math Department here)
speaking of which...... i should pr'ly log off to continue working on the problem related to this q: math.stackexchange.com/questions/71343/…
Okay then, I have to go too. See you.
best of luck to you and, again, thank you!
user20683
I really should spend more time here
user20683
02:59
though I kinda feel like I should spend that time doing math or programming
05:20
All by myself, don't wanna be, all by myself... :-)
05:50
...ANYMORE!!!! (with concomitant shattering of glass)
 
2 hours later…
07:24
@robjohn: do you sleep at all?
 
1 hour later…
09:13
@robjohn: Apparently Ramanujan "derived" things, he just got rid of all of whatever scratchwork he put down and listed all the main results in bulk. (Though my reading has it he was still formally sloppy [?] and relied heavily on intuition + mental math.)
09:50
@anon: Euler-sloppy is still better than most of us...
 
2 hours later…
11:57
folks, are you here?
I am, now.
for another 10 minutes.
I just found an error in my calculation of the 6th order term in an asymptotic expansion; I multiplied instead of dividing. The numerical check seems to indicate that the asymptotic expansion is now correct.
@Gortaur once in a while.
be back in a bit. gotta get people up.
@J.M.: found another error via numerical checking, and now the asymptotic looks correct.
@rob: What do you use for numerical verification, BTW?
The coefficient of the O(1/n^(5/2)) term seems to be about -1/300.
@JM Mathematica
be back in a bit
12:12
Ah. :D
My wife just parlayed for a bit more sleep time.
@J.M.: since the integral can be computed exactly as a rational number, it just involves comparing to the approximation.
the rational numbers are pretty freakish (very large numerators and denominators, especially when n=10000)
I'm trying it out now... :)
Yup... InverseSeries[Series[Sqrt[2 (u - Log[1 + u])], {u, 0, 8}]]
I have that line in my Mathematica notebook, but to 10 terms :-)
InverseSeries[Series[Sqrt[2 (x - Log[1 + x])], {x, 0, 10}]]
I only need 6 for the post
Okay, I'm having a stupid attack... how'd you get to (4) from the line before it?
Expanding the 1/(n-1) as series in 1/n
1/(n-1)=1/n+1/n^2+1/n^3+...
and similar for other powers of 1/(n-1)
12:28
Oh, okay. It seems to check out now. :D
It's nice that the answer for (1+x/n)^(n-1) and (1+x/n)^n are so easy to get from one another
As anon points out by integration by parts
Agreed.
Hi all, what's up?
Nothing much.
discussing my mistakes :-)
12:35
well, these things happens, but luckily you have Mathematica to double-check :) and then you needed to triple check the double checking, if I understand correctly...
yeah, the published result pointed out one error, and I discovered the other in a numerical check
Hey t.b.! :D Nice seeing you here.
Since I have a couple more terms than the one Mike Spivey pointed out, I had to resort to other methods of checking
t.b.'s becoming a regular!
not yet, I just think it's a rather slooow day today and I could see what you guys are up to
hey J. M. no more non-upright differential d's to catch?
12:39
Well I have to answer questions, too! :)
and fix umlauts and accents...
yes, that obsession we seem to share
and typos
they can make a differénce
oh yeah, and Cauchy-Schwartzes and the like
The way I see it, if my name had those filigrees, I'd really like it if people don't forget those bits... :)
12:41
I've gotten used to Buhler :), well, sort of
@JM however, with the history of ascii-only boards, you might be used to people not getting them
@rob I didn't obsess about them back in the day... at least until I saw Unicode being widely adopted...
on sci.math, people with non-unicode compliant newsreaders would complain about the non-ascii characters
Oh yeah, that...
@JM I try to pay attention to them now
12:43
@robjohn: btw. I absolutely second J. M.'s comment on meta to simply post that animated GIF. As long as they don't become the overwhelming majority, it is nice to have such an addendum.
So far: 1. nobody's complaining about them, and 2. I can't seem to be able to put into words what I'm seeing in my mind, so there's the animations...
I see :)
so posted :-)
Ah, that's what it was about
Hmm, somehow when Doug brought up staircases, I had in mind that \pi=4 bit...
12:47
I was worried about questions starting to look like so many web pages with things moving all over them
@JM The staircases converge pointwise, but the derivatives don't converge.
I'd say we're at least partially justified to do GIFs for geometry questions. For other bits, though...
I thought as much. :)
As a result the lengths don't converge to the length of the limit
I have a question, if anyone has a sec.
Shoot.
be back in a bit, my wife will be upset if I don't wake her soon.
12:51
see you
With a given triangle of the 45-60-75 say that the fist side you come to is X in length
first? what's first?
first no idea i guess we say the base of the triangel is to the bottom of the paper
so the left side we can say and 45-60 AB
Well, any of them could be the base, actually. You will however see the longest side being used as the base, and not much for the legs...
understand? or I am wording it very poorly?
and i just picked the longest side didn't I....
12:54
Maybe we need some labeling. Take A to be the 45 corner, B the 60 corner, and C the 75 corner. Am I reading you correctly?
YES
we can take the longest side as the base
So you have A and B as base angles. What then?
My goal and I am sure this is done, is to find out how the area grows for this kind of triangle.
Grows? Why, are you scaling them?
to fill a square...
12:56
You could start with the case where the longest side has unit length, and reckon from there.
@Dennis: ah, you're trying to solve Ed's packing problem, eh?
@JM well i want to know if my idea is any good.
I would think that if you add triangles of max area that will fix you can get a good solution.
I see, you're taking the greedy approach.
Unfortunately packing problems aren't my expertise... :(
I would also think that we can try to solve it to fill a rectangle that sides added together will = a square.
meaning the rectangle is 2/x and x so that two side by side will make a square = x by x
The problem is I don't quite see how to form a right angle save for joining at the two 45's, but that makes for a kite and not a rectangle.
maybe the real problem is to make a square out of 45-60-75 triangles
or a rectangle that when placed together makes a square. Or we can cut a square into many small triangels
13:09
I suppose. As I said, I'm not an expert with packing problems... :(
I will have to keep thinking about it...
13:40
I wouldn't mind see any packing of a square by 45-60-75 triangles. It did not seem clear to me that anyone had actually done it in an explicit sense, just in a long existence proof sense. The only answer last I looked just had some triangles packed, and it seem already challenging just to get the sides to match.
Huh, it's pretty humid here; the pages of my books look wavy...
 
1 hour later…
14:47
@J.M.: but do the pages have non-zero Gaussian curvature?
14:58
Again missed the party: was to PhD defense
was it successful?
sure. That was quite nice actually - first defense I've attended, so now I know how it goes
what was the subject of the thesis?
that was about traffic control, most of them are engineers at the department I'm working in
that was nice to see them following traditions with the uniform and the overall form of the defense
@robjohn: do you know by any chance something related to this question: math.stackexchange.com/questions/71396/…?
haven't looked at that kind before.
You are looking for references?
15:14
better for the references, though related ideas will be also highly appreciated
the trick is that usual argument about non-uniqueness fails as I've mentioned in the example there
I see
More important, I should apply this theory to treat linear equation with unbounded solution in 'Banach spaces', i.e. allowing functions f : X -> (-\infty,\infty] (sorry for weird LaTeX)
LaTeX has to be weird here
@robjohn Of course not; but they're quite wavy...
when I first read your question, I thought about Banach spaces, but took solace in the fact that you were specifying matrices.
15:22
I thought that people will be more attracted by more simple formulation of the problem
@J.M.: I think I have only seen that when I have been carrying my books through the rain. That must be some nasty humidity.
@Gortaur and some of the important ideas might be present in the finite dimensional case.
and second reason - maybe they meet this theory for matrices only rather then for Banach spaces
@robjohn exactly. they must be I think
@Gortaur: I assume that for the interesting cases, I-A is singular?
sure, I don't care much about others. My colleague tried to complain that in my example we have Ix=b+Ix so b=0 unless I told him not to subtract infinity from infinity
I can see the difficulty that people encounter using \infty as a number, but I think it is used properly in your case. It will still cause some difficulty when first looking at the problem.
15:29
I agree with you. I checked it some times and I think the statement of the problem in the question is correct
The disadvantage is that you cannot subtract here
that is a difficulty
but part of the problem
15:47
@AlexeiAverchenko: how is life? read that in your university was a conference about yeti
abominable!
@Gortaur perhaps you've discovered Alexei's secret...
which of them? )
yeti are posting on MSE!
are??
you think one yeti is not smart enough to drive one user here?
you mentioned yeti and Alexei left... come to think of it, have you ever seen Alexei and a yeti in the same room at the same time?
16:01
if I have, I would stop with beer
good idea.
maybe 'y e t i' is just a spell which kicks-off Alexei
I should look through my magic book, left it at home
hmm.. I wonder if there is such a spell for each user here.
we can try. who annoys you?
no one yet, but there have been some on sci.math.
16:05
I read quite an interesting book on this topic
annoying mathematicians?
the setting was like medieval Like castles, nomads from steppe and some king of magic
though fortunately it was not usual fantasy
the idea was that some time ago magicians can use words put into the shape of a poem to control the power of the nature to stop attacks of nomads
but then after some event (don't remember which exactly) their poems lost their power
and they left just with words
there was another Untitled guy came from unknown places. That Untitled showed them the Theatre
that the words are as powerful as before
that is what happened here; Alexei left and all we had were words.
long story short
there are words which will kick-off any member from the chat
@Gortaur: your as chameleonic as J.M. today.
16:10
if you really need it, you'll find them )
Hmm...
@robjohn: that gravatar suddenly appeared at my QSE
I loved it and copied to other accounts
you have to sign up to be able to change your gravatar, right?
I prefer the adjective "protean" myself...
protean is close to my twitter name
I love this chapter in Ulysses
so I decided that blue cube from MD is not a good idea to use as a gravatar
16:12
:D
which is QSE?
quant
btw, that gravatar reminds me Gzhelka
cool combination of dark blue and white
@robjohn Yeah, you need a Gravatar account. Alternatively, like me, if you have a WordPress account, you also have a Gravatar account...
16:14
I was going to change mine, but I balked at the sign up page.
;)
in one of Russian social networks they ask for the copy of your passport to delete your account
that seems very odd.
that's quite moderate words to describe such situation
though there is a hidden link by which you can delete it without contacts with the administration - you just need to ask google and he tells you
I could inderstand it from a socialist network...
google is knowledgeable.
after that I lose my fear to login somewhere ) logout may be more tricky
16:18
If you get a Gravatar account, does that get you a WordPress account?
I just opened wordpress
and I'm logged in there with my gravatar on the top of the page
I do not remember that I've done it by myself, so apparently, if you get a Gravatar account, that get you a WordPress account
Perhaps I will bravely step onto the signup page
perhaps and bravely cannot appear in the same sentence )
@robjohn Nope. The converse doesn't imply the conditional. ;)
@Gortaur They just did, twice. :-p
16:22
anyway, nice to talk to u
I have to run
in the twilight
later
to the train
don't trip
=))
thanks. goodbye
16:25
bubye
@J.M.: as neat as your new gravatar is, it is hard to tell if it is active. It looks greyed out as it is.
Oh, I purposely made the lines of the curve thin. :)
...and it's static.
It came up on one of the things I'm researching.
16:48
I'm back. I had a DSL tech out from our phone company looking at my line. It dropped to less than 50% the speed last weekend.
Yeow.
What was wrong then?
It is at about 80% of the speed that I had a while ago, but that is better than 45%
I don't know why it was down to 45%, but I refuse to go with the new whizzy U-Verse they have because they only offer sticky-IPs not static IPs
I have a mail, dns, and web server running, and you can't do those from a sticky IP setup
Indeed.
@J.M. there's actually discussion on meta, that that one user was not a bot
just fyi
@anon: Yeah, I read. Now I'm confused...
17:09
what was the supposed bot doing that tagged its botness?
I should just read meta
okay, I read the thread.
I wonder who the hell downvoted my answer to that sqrt 2 question...
And why is it that only my answer was downvoted.
'tweren't me
I think thou protest too much :P
:D
the only downvote I have received was claimed by the downvoter.
17:15
Now my points are not nicely rounded... I am not going to have 15,000 but rather 15,008 or something like that.
Downvoter was shocked you were answering something that wasn't set theory...
Let's see if some tag wiki needs editing :P
That's how I cure "rough rep" also... :D
(I too like my rep to be a multiple of 5.)
My downvoter was annoyed that I was answering something in set theory
and it turns out I really shouldn't have.
however, I think that downvoters should at least give a reason why.
17:18
@robjohn Agreed. I think it's unsportsmanlike not to do so.
At least something good should come from a bad answer.
woo hoo! I just got a quorum badge! Didn't even know it existed.
I wonder if I should report this bug about how I see the review waiting, even though I was the one suggesting it. :P
I wonder if you can get two fanatic badges for 200 consec days...
Nope, it's a one-time deal
17:26
I have like 450 days consecutive...
434, to be exact.
:o
Told you he was an addict... :D
is it a moderator power to see how many consecutive days you've been on?
They can, but you can too.
I was going for the fanatic badge, but I didn't check in for a day while updating a post.
17:30
Where's Willie when you need him...
@AsafKaragila how? I can see mine, but no one else's.
Yeah, that's what I said. You can see your own and that's it.
I'm never getting that Fanatic bit; I need my breaks too...
I don't need my breaks. Good for me. :D
and moderators or those with moderator tools.
This is my break.
17:32
Exactly!
(my psychotic break)
I have to take a break from my break, you know. :D
I work, I post here, and then those other things...
Start answering only one sort of tag, then it's a nice break. :D
@anon: "4chan's math and science board" - there's one now? I have been away too long...
Lately my answers are just not great. I guess I strive on that end-of-year period where the fun questions come from students that wonder about the axiom of choice. :D
17:35
@J.M. yup, /sci/. Of course most math and science was only present the first few months, but it comes by again occasionally....
Is it /b/'s half-witted brother? (seeing how /b/ is a no-wit board...)
I'm guessing most of it is from people with homework...
no, it's basically free chat for math-and-science types
I avoided boards until I came here.
I just did sci.math until it became way too thin with the math.
Well, you were 30 when the internet was public, so you were probably 40 when the boards were starting to overtake news groups...
17:38
I've been both a troll and a moderator in previous times...
@AsafKaragila at least
I was a troll, a moderator, admin, at one point I was even both a troll and an admin. These were crazy times :D
@Asaf: L'Chaim! :D
Imagine I had a glass of arak raised... ;)
17:42
Oh, I should probably eat something first.
I haven't eaten much all day.
@Gortaur: are you on the train?
no, @home already
Does a smartphone app exist for MSE? The website is hard to work on my iPhone.
I'm guessing not.
Nope. There's the mobile interface which sucks.
I think we had this conversation before.
yeah
I haven't heard it if you have.
17:51
Say what?
but I don't doubt you.
@rob: maybe not with you, but I do remember Asaf griping about the mobile UI a while back...
about having this convo before.
...too bad I'm too lazy to do transcript-digging
I can search the transcripts.
17:52
Oh. It was with someone else.
You were there, though.
@AsafKaragila I see it, I was griping about losing consecutive days at the time.
I had just started on chat then.
Possible. We love to gripe in the this chat, eh?
I was cranky and needed to gripe or shoo kids off my lawn.
Damn kids... :D
@JM Damn straight!
Of course that would entail getting some kids to be on my lawn.
18:00
Make it green enough and they'll come...
There's something about a neat lawn that compels kids to step on them...
(on the other hand, when I was a kid, *I* was the one bothering oldies' lawns, so... :D )
@JM why do I see asterisks in your messages. Do you escape them from meaning italics?
I wanted the asterisks... :)
so if I close my eyes real tight and wish for asterisks...
Okay I have to step out. See you later.
have a good one, or two.
*I wish*
It worked!
18:23
ther is sych an app for android
i don't know about iOS
I love writing long-ass answers for basic questions.
I will just have to search.
Now it's time to eat something. See you guys later.
eat well
@robjohn: you are full of simple and good advice today
18:34
just trying to find something pleasant to say.
Didn't want Asaf to think we didn't care.
Perhaps I will come up with something deep later, or not.
spent 20 min looking for my pants and they were right under my laptop :/
2
18:54
On your legs?
It would make sense.
@robjohn I know you don't care. It's fine. :D
@AsafKaragila: yes, but you're not supposed to know that ;-p
@robjohn Well... that's a different story altogether.
no, I set my laptop on top of them
So... you were chatting without pants?
rarely do I chat with pants
err...
18:59
I think we should add a requirement for pants in the chatroom. :P
dress code for chat.
As long as I don't need to wear a tie.
No tie, no shoes, no bras. Yes pants, yes shirt for people with BMI>50
good thing about the shoes, too.
reminds me, mathoverflows FAQ has a section called "Where's the rule that says I have to wear pants?"
I usually walk around barefoot. At best I go to the university and then leave my sandals in the office.
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