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00:00
@Committingtoachallenge For a beginner (and not only), such "un livre" contains many mysteries.
I'm out.
@Chris'ssis Yeah je imagine, but they might have more trouble understanding than tu expect. Bonne nuit
@Committingtoachallenge That's the major part in my book. All will be very clear, easy to understand. The crazy stuff will be brought to a very decent level such that anyone interested might learn easily.
@Chris'ssis If you make alright money will you quit your job and do that full time?
@Committingtoachallenge Actually, although I mentioned above that I might like to publish more books, I might leave mathematics after publishing my first book.
@Chris'ssis What why?
@Chris'ssis You have a passion, why would you stop??
00:06
@Committingtoachallenge I wanna dedicate my book especially to someone (at least), that's one of my dreams.
@Committingtoachallenge Kind of disappointed (for some reasons).
I'm out.
@Chris'ssis Vous-etes(you are)? With le livre?
@Committingtoachallenge No, math community in general (with some aspects).
@Chris'ssis The competitiveness of academia, or the people here(or both)?
@Committingtoachallenge I wouldn't like to say more about it.
I'm out.
bien, bonne nuit
00:14
Anybody know what a Kripke model is?
'Cause I'm reading something on something called "Intuitionist Logic" and his explanation of Kripke models doesn't make sense.
I am back.
@ABeautifulMind I'm guessing you don't know anything about it?
@columbus8myhw No, I am only a banana now.
@ABeautifulMind Salut
writes on @ABeautifulMind
00:18
Does anyone here have any hiring experience for business-ish positions?
@Clarinetist Are you applying for a business-ish position
Yeah. I'm wondering if the practice of not contacting the current employer of a prospective employer is common. Mainly because I don't want anyone to contact my current employer. It would turn out bad.
prospective employee?^^
Sorry
Yeah, *employee
@Clarinetist I don't think any statistics on this matter matters. Your emplyer may or may not contact him and only he will know so there is no point trying to guess.
00:29
K
00:44
Sometimes a prospective employer will ask if its OK with you to do so
@DavidWheeler Hello!
is your hint to do with the trace?
I can see that all nilpotent matrices have trace zero(from wiki), but I am now just thinking what I could do to pin down nilpotency of degree 2
for an $n\times n$ matrix
I'll be back later, I have a class in 10
Hi, I am back again.
@Committingtoachallenge Hi. Bye
Not just the main diagonal-the sub-diagonals, the sub-sub-diagonals, etc.
01:09
Hello @SanathDevalapurkar!!! Could I ask you something about quicksort?
@DavidWheeler Are you bored?
i'm thinking to put up a request on main for generalizations of a certain identity
the base identity is eq. 19 from Mathworld's page on Chebyshev polynomials of the second kind
and if you modify the upper-leftmost element to $2x+t$, then the linearity of the determinant as a function of each of its column vectors gives the determinant as $U_n(x)+tU_{n-1}(x)$
I want to show that the best-case running time of quicksort at an array with pairwise distinct elements is: $\Omega(n \lg n)$ .

Could I say the following?

At the best case, partition produces two subproblems of size at most $\frac{n}{2}$ each of them, given that the one has size $ \lfloor \frac{n}{2} \rfloor $ and the other $ \lceil \frac{n}{2} \rceil-1$.
The recurrence relation for the execution time is:

$$T(n) \leq 2T\left( \frac{n}{2} \right) + \Theta(n)$$

and from Master Theorem we deduce that $T(n)=O(n \log n)$.
01:28
@ABeautifulMind Bored, and nervous.
@DavidWheeler I have been listening to the various versions of Andrea Bocelli's Because We Believe on youtube, not the gospel one.
@IlmariKaronen Do you maybe have an idea?
I'm bored because nothing is happening right now. Nervous, because I might get a job soon, and there are "obstacles" I have to overcome to actually land it.
02:07
"I'm bored because nothing is happening right now." How I wish that applied to me.
@DavidWheeler The sub-sub diagonals
Is this just another way of saying the determinate?
I have four hours free now, yay
Typically, one analyzes a matrix vertically, or horizontally (rows/columns)
But you can also look at them "diagonally", which is productive for nilpotent matrices
take a 3x3 matrix-which entries can be non-0 for it to satisfy $A^2 = 0$?
02:32
speaking of matrices
i posted a version of the question i was mentioning above
0
Q: Extending a Chebyshev-polynomial determinant identity

SemiclassicalThe following $n\times n$ determinant identity is included as eq. 19 on Mathworld's entry for the Chebyshev polynomials of the second kind: $$U_n(t)=\begin{vmatrix}2 x& 1 & 0 &\cdots &0\\ 1 & 2x &1 &\cdots &0 \\ 0 & 1 & 2x &\cdots &0\\0 & 0 & 1 & \ddots & \vdots \\ \vdots & \ddots & \ddots &\...

(i.e. shameless question self promotion)
@DavidWheeler $\begin{bmatrix}0&a&b\\0&0&0\\0&0&0\end{bmatrix}$
I don't even know what the definition of a matrix is
Chat guidelines | $\LaTeX$ in chat | MSE chat dwellers: pin your location (just for fun) [instructions]
12
depends on your perspective. one POV: it's a gadget that maps vectors to vectors (not necessarily of the same length)
02:51
It looks like all strictly upper and lower triangular matrices are nilpotent, with the degree being given by how close we are to the main diagonal
So $\begin{bmatrix}0&a&b&c\\0&0&d&e\\0&0&0&f\\0&0&0&0\end{bmatrix}$ is Nil with degree 4
and taking away that $f$ I conjecture makes it nil degree 3
But I haven't verified
Taking a=d=f=0 and it should be N^2 maybe
i'm trying to remember. is there a tex expression for writing wedge products analogously to regular products, i.e. with $\Pi$ replaced by a large $\wedge$?
I'm so lazy to type out matrices in LaTeX
So much typing involved
hence why index notation is occasionally lovely, heh
I don't mind writing it on paper
Just typing it in LaTeX is annoying to me
Then use the \def feature
and premble all of your tex
02:59
Sounds too sophisticated LaTeX for me
`/def/b{/begin{bmatrix}}/def/e{/end{bmatrix}} /b 2&3//2&3/e`

reverse all slashes

$\def\b{\begin{bmatrix}}\def\e{\end{bmatrix}} \b 2&3\\2&3\e$
I can't demonstrate code if your chat jax is on though lol
lol
I can see it
You define things once, and then never again, and you can just copy your code
$\b 2& 2\e $
oh wow it stays defined wow
Wait, do you mean it stays defined in the chat @Committingtoachallenge
Also @Semiclassical you know some measure theory right?
I mean you can troll people $\def\frac{\text{hello}}$
$\frac{2}{3}$
03:06
Or something about Lebesgue integration? $L^p$ spaces.
Er, I don't have chatjax.
Hold on.
Try to use fractions with chatjax
31 mins ago, by Committing to a challenge
Chat guidelines | $\LaTeX$ in chat | MSE chat dwellers: pin your location (just for fun) [instructions]
(Also why is it called chatjax?)
@Anthony Because it is mathjax made for chat
Why is it called mathjax?
I don't know haha
03:07
$\frac{1}{2}$
You fiend.
This is terrible.
hi anthony
@MikeMiller Mi lad.
That defining is in the
" Try to use fractions with chatjax" post
How is UCLA?
embedded invisibly[and I didn't delete in time...]
@Mike Make a fraction friend and render with chatjax
03:09
Will it?
Oh god.
@robjohn Committing to a Challenge found an exploit in ChatJaX; he can define common operations, e.g. frac, to be something completely different. See here and enable ChatJaX.
@Anthony It's good.
Crap I broke fractions completely by trying to fix them
It'll stop when we talk this text off the page
Will it?
Yep, it's just because it renders top to bototom
03:11
That's good. Push to the top!
We need fractions!
@anthony i really don't know any formal measure theory; i'm a physics grad student, not math, and while i'm a decidedly mathy one i don't have that background
Meh. 1/2.
$\def\frac{\text{sorry I broke this testing something}}$ $\frac$
@Semiclassical Oh, alright.
@MikeMiller I forget your feelings towards analysis.
I love everything.
03:12
Even me? :D
Even you.
Like my comment with the chatjax and pin location above pls :)
My professor spewed some words at me, and I don't know how to piece them together, mind if I ask you for some help?
Fiend.
as per the chat room description: "Just ask; don't ask to ask."
But I always ask Mike, if I stop now, what will happen?
03:15
@Commit at least you didn't break everything. I remember when I was in highschool, I knew the assemblylanguage code to write to the piece of memory that tells how much available ram is left on the ti-83+ series of calculators, making the calculator think that it has 0 ram available and making doing anything on it impossible until a memclear.
@JMoravitz That's pretty fun haha
I'm grabbing dinner when my friend's ready to go, but shoot, @Anthony.
I think you're doing measure theory; that's unfortunately one of my weak points.
My prof mentioned that for $0<p<1$, $||\cdot||_{L^p}$ isn't a metric.
I've seen one proof, but my professor was mentioning something about the codimension of the kernel of something being one, and the fact that the set of continuous linear functionals is closed, it's a convex set, and because it's closed and convex it contains an open set, and hence the entire space... Does any of this ring a bell? I know it's mostly gibberish as written.
I didn't know what he was saying, and I was frantically writing things in hopes of piecing it together later.
Does someone wanna star my post from 42 minutes ago so it can be pinned
"Because it's closed and convex it contains an open set" - I don't see why. This certainly isn't true in finite dimensional spaces.
@Committingtoachallenge No.
03:19
Would that perma-break the chatjax?
@MikeMiller The guidelines|latex|location one?
Maybe. Who knows?
Oh, that one
@Anthony Yes that one would lol
Until he deleted it
then it is fixed
Why would it break it? I don't understand why chat jax works like that. Shouldn't it just simulate each statement piece by piece?
It goes top-down.
It just runs the page as if it was compiling a TeX document, say. It doesn't forget the stuff that came before.
03:21
And also @MikeMiller I'm not solid at all on convexity, maybe he didn't set that. I thought he did, but ignoring that, you can't think of a sensible argument using some of those words?
I can't think of anything, no. It sounds interesting, though.
Oh, it just compiles the whole page?
glancing at Wikipedia's presentation of Lp norms and pretending like i know wth i'm talking about
Something like that.
03:22
Weird.
@Anthony: The problem is that it's not even locally convex. Maybe try to use that.
lol
I don't know what locally convex is either.
We only had convexity in one homework.
We didn't even talk about it in class.
Are $\b0&0&a&b\\0&0&c&d\\0&0&0&0\\0&0&0&0\e$ and it's transpose the only nillpotent degree 2 matrices of size $4\times 4$?
Have you heard of "concave"?
i note that the reasoning they give there regarding the bound on the sum of two p-th power integrable functions fails for $0<p<1$
03:23
Where $a,b,c,d\in \Bbb C$
and, more to the point, the inequality flips
(So I suppose families of matrices)
so two functions being p-th power integrable doesn't imply that their sum is, if $0<p<1$
I see.
the thing i'd love to give right now is an explicit counter-example in that vein, but i don't know enough for that
03:26
lol
0
Q: Nillpotent degree $2$ 'families' of $4\times 4$ matrices

Committing to a challenge$\def\b{\begin{bmatrix}}\def\e{\end{bmatrix}}$ Are $\b0&0&a&b\\0&0&c&d\\0&0&0&0\\0&0&0&0\e$ and it's transpose, $a,b,c,d\in \Bbb C$ the only nillpotent degree $2$ 'families' of matrices of size $4\times 4$? I believe they are, but I wanted to verify.

I wonder if putting a define code into the title of a question would change every other question on the main pages latex
I won't try due to probably getting in trouble with that lol
Yep my \def\b{\begin{bmatrix}} and stuff is gone and it is not rendering now as expected
03:42
a pet peeve: people complaining about failing to get an answer to the question they didn't ask
04:19
I don't understand how to use jordans cannonical form to help me solve my problem
@Abe can you help me with jordans cannonical form?
Hi, I forgot all my math, sorry.
I know that you know more than you let on :P
Help a brother out
No, I really forgot what little I learnt, but once I get well I will study everything again.
Let someone else help you.
Anyway, I just went out for a walk, but I feel shitty again because lots of traumatic thoughts just came again.
I hope you like the place you are staying in now.
I do, it is very good
Although quite far from uni(1hr from house to uni by car)
That is very far.
I hope I get my miracle in the end. I don't have much strength left.
Anyway, next Wed I will see the doc to get some meds.
@Committingtoachallenge It is Jordan canonical form, not jordans cannonical form, lol.
04:31
Same thing
Spelling matters, lol
shure et duz
az loyg az peepz undastad et nun materz
What language is that?
az(as) loyg(long) az(as) peepz(peeps/people) undastad(understand) et(it nun(doesn't) materz(matter). But I am sure you got that(or maybe only native English can read troll language)
But je suis learning francais for fun
Who says I am not native?
04:34
I thought your country didn't focus English?
oh they do
My English is as native as native can be, albeit a different form.
A third speak English at home
But any Aussie I know could have easily read my troll text above
Who says I couldn't?
"What language is that?" - JL -> "But I am sure you got that" -AC

So noone :P
Will you be coming to my country for a visit anytime soon?
It's just across the ocean, lol.
04:40
Haha, not for awhile, I am still poor
Me too, living with my mum now.
A heap of students still live with their parents even in 4th year which is really strange to me(since they are wealthy)
I am trying to break free from my mental illnesses, but it is so hard. But I will keep trying.
This upset me very much. There is nothing to change if you don't even understand what it is that I am thinking.
Like I said, all those things that those people said about self pitying is rubbish rubbish rubbish.
So I won't talk to them anymore.
I don't respond to them anymore not because they said some truth that I want to hide, but because they talk rubbish.
@Committingtoachallenge People in my country usually live with their parents until they get married.
04:57
It is hard for anyone to understand how you feel
Yes, the context above though is that I was just talking about my problems and then someone started to say I should stop pitying myself, and then a whole bunch of people agreed.
When did that happen?
Talking about your problems is not equal to negative self pitying, full stop. Enough said. I don't have to prove anything anymore. My one sentence proof is sufficient.
the phrase i remember encountering at one point which deeply, deeply upset me in regards to my anxiety etc.
"just man up"
One person gave quote after quote about self pitying, then one user after another just agreed with him.
All this is in another chat room, not this one.
I will just ignore them, because they have completely missed the point.
05:02
That's pretty harsh
In a way it is my mistake to talk about these things with them, so I will learn from my mistake and avoid this in future.
right. i mean, it's one thing to consider what role positive/negative thinking plays in some of this stuff. it's entirely another to tell someone else that they just need to suck it up
If talking helps, talk
telling people to suck it up is just BS
another awful phrase, though perhaps more well-meaning: "i know what you're going through"
When someone has PTSD, he does not want to think those things. The thoughts just come to him. But that's another point I am making here.
05:04
Wow, that's awful :/
@Semiclassical The difference between sympathizing and empathizing
b/c usually it comes right within a conversation where, if they actually did understand it, they wouldn't be saying the shit they do
I am closing this chat now due to distractions haha
Cya guys later
OK.
@Semiclassical Exactly, lol.
05:31
If a matrix is constructed using nilpotent degree 2 matrices in the jordan form way, is it degree 2 nilpotent?
@abe am I not allowed to express my opinion?
If I have doubts then I have doubts. That's all there is to my opinion @abe
Obviously I could be wrong.
Can you help me with my question @Pedro?
0
Q: Using jordan form to find nilpotent $4\times 4$ matrices

Committing to a challengeRelated to this question. I am trying to understand how to show all nilpotent matrices of size $4\times 4$ using the Jordan normal form. From what I understand, we string together Jordan blocks of different sizes. I am trying to find how to find all forms of some matrix $A$ where $A$ is a $4\ti...

@Committingtoachallenge What do you need help with?
Finding all nilpotent $4\times 4$ matrices
Well I want to know the method for the general case, but the $4\times 4$ case will definitely help
Sorry nilpotent with degree $2$(e.g. if this notion of degree is non-standard as Will Jagy suggests $A^2=0$)
you do realize there are different degrees of nilpotency, yes?
05:39
Yes I meant to say degree $2$
@Committingtoachallenge Right.
So, the matrix you give is not nilpotent of degree $2$.
$\def\b{\begin{bmatrix}}\def\e{\end{bmatrix}} \b 0&0&a&b\\0&0&c&d\\0&0&0&0\\0&0&0&0\e$ is degree $2$ nilpotent, but I found some examples not of that form(or the form of its transpose)
Usually one calls this the "nilindex".
So nilpotent index $2$ rather than degree?
Or index of nilpotency 2
You can call it what you want as long as you're clear about it.
But nilindex sounds cool to me. =)
So, note that the Jordan blocks that have index at most two are $$\begin{pmatrix}0&1\\0&0\end{pmatrix}$$

OK, yes. =)
@infinitesimal You can express your opinion. I am just saying there is nothing to change when those people talking about me don't even know what I am thinking. To change, they first need to know exactly what I am thinking, but they don't. They probably assume I think of this and that, groundless assumptions.
Look at it as a block, not a matrix.
Well, and $0$.
Some observations-matrices have "too many" forms, even with nilpotent matrices.
So what we want to do is paste such blocks together to get a $4\times 4$ matrix.
05:47
So to classify them, we use similiarity equivalence.
In how many (inequivalent) ways can we do this?
2 of the small block together, and we have the $1\times 1 $ block is just $\b 0 \e$?
@PedroTamaroff Your 2nd matrix has nilindex 3
@DavidWheeler No.
Actually it does I think
$\b 0&1&0\\0&0&1\\0&0&0\e^2 = \b 0&0&1\\0&0&0\\0&0&0\e$
05:50
Compute its square....
Which is what was confusing me, since the eigenvalues are $0$
So the only nontrivial block is the one left.
So is the $1\times 1$ block just $\b 0 \e$?
Right. Or just a general $0$ block.
If your matrices are over an integral domain, yes
05:51
so we have similarity to $\b 0&1&0&0\\0&0&0&0\\0&0&0&1\\0&0&0&0\e$
This is over $\Bbb C$
@infinitesimal I still consider you a friend, but I won't talk to the person who started this anymore, you know who.
and I assume a matrix of that form(or the transpose of the form) is similar to $$\def\b{\begin{bmatrix}}\def\e{\end{bmatrix}} \b 0&0&a&b\\0&0&c&d\\0&0&0&0\\0&0&0&0\e$$
@Committingtoachallenge Do you know the Jordan canonical form?
@MikeMiller That is not an exploit. That is a misuse. We don't want people using \def, \newcommand, etc without being properly bracketed.
@DavidWheeler I just read about it an hour ago and I am coming to terms with it
oh crap I have class in 5 min across the campus crap
2
I'll think more on it and come back after class
05:53
@Committingtoachallenge Across the campus crap? LOL.
Arrggghh got way too into this
@Committingtoachallenge now there is a challenge...
4
@robjohn Yes, to get over a huge pile of campus crap.
I don't understand the difference between an exploit and a misuse.
05:54
Basically, for any matrix you have $A = P(D + N)P^{-1}$, where $D$ is diagonal, and $N$ is nilpotent.
@Committingtoachallenge Dis
@PedroTamaroff Flagged for saying bitch.
Can I star comments for later reference?
Is that acceptable practice?
@Committingtoachallenge Don't do that.
Actually I'll just take the link
05:55
Yes, star my messages please, about the crap.
I'm sure Pedro will duly investigate your flagging of him :P
You can just mark a conversation.
My campus crap is so funny, why no stars?
Look at "create bookmark" in the room tools.
@MikeMiller \def, \newcommand, etc are known functions that do well-defined things. They are not good in a multi-user environment. LaTeX is a print control language, intended for single person use.
05:57
@ABeautifulMind Most of my best quips get no stars, either.
@robjohn How's friday looking for you?
@DavidWheeler They are just jealous of us.
@MikeMiller an exploit is the use of an unintended feature to subvert the standard purpose.
Fair enough.
@PedroTamaroff I will try to make it, but I will most likely have to take the day off. What time will you be at UCLA?
06:00
@robjohn I can be all day there.
@PedroTamaroff You going Cal for holiday?
Are you thinking another day is better?
@ABeautifulMind I'm in CA.
@PedroTamaroff For pleasure or work?
You can say both.
What work?
06:01
Work.
=)
Self study you mean?
Ah then what kind of work? Too shy to say?
I'm not shy.
OK, can you share what work?
06:02
Not really, no.
Is it math stuff?
No.
Or perhaps it is?
I won't ask anymore, I get it, your work is top secret. Probably a spy for the government.
@PedroTamaroff I will plan on being there, but I cannot tell if work will need me elsewhere. Will you have a phone that will work here?
Gosh, I feel like I'm eavesdropping or something
06:07
I'm sending an email right now.
You're going to be on campus Friday, @robjohn?
@MikeMiller I'm going to plan on it. If work needs me elsewhere, I may need to back out.
I see.
Let me know your plans then. I am busy most of the day but maybe all of our mutual schedules will line up...
And Hades will open up.
@MikeMiller I will be there next week, but this week is not part of my scheduled on-campus calls.
06:13
And Titans will ascend to Olympus.
And claim their rightful throne back.
Zeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeus.
Zeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeus.
Sure. My class's final is on Monday, so admittedly I intend to be off-campus from Tuesday onwards... we'll see if I finish on time.
Can anybody confirm this fourier transform fact? FT(FT(G(x)FT(H(x))) = G(-x)H(-x) ?
@MikeMiller Hopefully, Pedro, you, and I will be able to cause some sort of critical mass on campus.
@robjohn I will be there too, in spirit.
@Mikhail Fourier transforms take products to convolutions and vice versa, and $\mathcal F \mathcal F G(x) = G(-x)$. Use these two facts.
06:17
@Mikhail Only for special functions would that be true.
Oh, I misread.
@Mikhail it is not true in general
@robjohn What about if G(x)/H(x) is finite bandwidth?
it's precisely (G*H)(-x)...
where * is convolution?
06:21
@Mikhail That wouldn't make the statement true. As Mike says, $\mathrm{FT}(f)\mathrm{FT}(g)=\mathrm{FT}(f\ast g)$ and $\mathrm{FT}(\mathrm{FT}(f(x)))=f(-x)$
06:58
If you read the transcript carefully @abe you will see that we were actually discussing what I have been trying to get you to agree to, and that is a combined treatment of both medication and therapy. This, I believe, will give you the best chances of success my friend :-)
07:49
 
2 hours later…
10:14
Morning
10:31
@Alec Is that thing a piece of software or a web app?
Greetings
Hello @DanielFischer!!! If we have $T(n) \leq 2T\left( \frac{n}{2}\right)+\Theta(n)$ do we deduce that $T(n) \in O(n \lg n)$ or $T(n) \in \Omega(n \lg n)$ ?
10:52
Hi how can I rewritz $h''=-g-\alpha |h'|h'$ to $v'=-g+\alpha v^2$ ?
11:37
@Chris'ssis Do you know of some online resources I could use to learn more about the properties of the harmonic function?
I'm referring to $H_n$, of course
@teadawg1337 wikipedia
sighs That's a start, I suppose...
@Chris'ssis I need to work on the fundamentals before diving back in to where I was :/
@teadawg1337 Try to google "harmonic numbers pdf" or something like that. You might find some useful results.
@robjohn I'm just a step away from evaluating $$\sum_{k=1}^{\infty} \frac{e^{-k^2}}{k^2}$$ There is something weird that puts me in trouble though. I mean an interesting phenomen occurs during my way that puts me in trouble.
Hi @Ali
@Chris'ssis I don't believe I've seen that sum before. The integral with that form does not have a closed form
11:45
@robjohn Well, here is the very interesting point. I can get an integral for that that has a computable primitive in terms of special functions, but I cannot compute a limit.
In class shouldn't be talking
@robjohn I tell you the sum is something $-\sqrt{\pi}$.
All index 2 nilpotency matrices are similar to the jordan form right... I don't remember where I read this, and I can't remember why I think it is the case
I have been working on these things for so long I am going insane

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