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22:00
Obviously, I'd like to do it non-exhaustively, if there's a way.
@MikeMiller thx, yes bott periodicity is known to me
So $a$ is quite naturally a map $\Omega^0(E) \to \Omega^1(E)$ - locally, since $a$ is just a $\mathfrak g$-matrix of 1-forms, apply the matrix to the section to get an $E$-valued 1-form. But the obvious way to extend this to a map $\Omega^1(E) \to \Omega^2(E)$ - $1 \otimes a$ (considering these as $T^*M \otimes E \to$ a subthing of $T^*M \otimes T^*M \otimes E$) - is wrong.
I have no idea what the right way is.
@Mike: I remember teaching this to people when we went through Lawson's Gauge Theory lecture notes back in 82 or 83. I'll have to work it out again.
22:04
I would appreciate it if you gave it a shot. I'd owe you a second dinner. :) This is glossed over in every gauge theory book I own.
I don't have that book any more. I gave it to Sa'ar.
Isn't this in Donaldson?
@user159870 If could avoid coming in and yelling ANSWER MY QUESTION NOW!!...
yes, the sequence of equations is in Donaldson.
why they're true is not.
@Hippa: Silence!
@Hippalectryon Sorry!
22:05
I just ignore him :P
@TedShifrin q_q
@Mike: You'd better watch it with those dinner promises. I shall be driving up to LA once in a while to visit ... and to visit a few restaurants :P
@user159870 Avoid asking for help for a question you have asked 5 minutes ago... At least wait half an hour..
@TedShifrin Well, as long as I get to spread those dinners out a bit.
@MikeMiller it seems that the relevant section is not yet written
22:07
@Hippalectryon not if he's in a hurry...
@Laters no, the relevant section is 2.3. the one you're thinking of will, hypothetically, consist of a calculation of the maximum # of linearly independent sections on $S^n$ for any $n$, much more general.
@Ramanewbie It doesn't matter. The mathSE webs question site is not a "do my question right now" site. You ask your question, and maybe someone will answer when he wants.
It can take days for some questions to be answered
if it's a high level of course @Hippalectryon
@MikeMiller you are right, apologies. but it is still a shame that section 2.4. isn't written yet
I agree, I hope he finishes that book someday.
You can find a proof in Lawson's 'spin geometry' using Clifford algebras that the maximum number is achieved, but not a proof that it is indeed the maximum number.
ie he writes down the right number of independent vector fields, but doesn't prove there aren't more
22:13
amazing stuff. did you read atiyah's k theory book?
it seems to be nice
I haven't. I suspect his calculation of the max # is the same as Lawson's. after all, Atiyah is K-theory fan #1 :)
I suspect my proof is missing something.
We know the coordonates of 3 points A, B and C, in a frame. How can we determine the equation of the median from C ?
@TedShifrin Nevermind. I finally wrote down the right action. I do not owe a second dinner.
I was almost there, @Mike. Of course, I write it all out in terms of the classical structure equations procedure. But great :)
22:26
help please people !
doses what I asked make sense ?
@TedShifrin: For some reason it hadn't occured to me that I wanted $(a\omega)(x,y) = a(x)\omega(y) - a(y)\omega(x)$... I don't really see why I didn't think of that, but oh well.
@Ramanewbie 1) don't ping like that 2) We'd like it if you could work by yourself a bit before asking questions here. It won't help you at all if we just give you answers.
I kept telling you wedge, @Mike. GRR.
@TedShifrin Yes, I know you did. I didn't understand.
22:27
@Hippalectryon To tell you the truth, I didn't ever imagined there is so much sh*t in the world of mathematics. After I publish my book I'm out of mathematics.
@Hippalectryon but I've absulotely no idea how I can do that
$a$ is a $\mathfrak g$-valued $1$-form, so you need to wedge the $1$-form part, which gives that formula.
@Chris'ssis No !! Don't do that, it would be sad
LOL, nonsense @Chris'ssis
I think the nicest people I met are in Mathematics.
22:28
@DanielFischer There is the following proposition in my lecture notes.

Let $X \neq \varnothing$ and $X$ finite set.
The following are equivalent:
- $X$ is countable.
- there is a $f: X \overset{1-1}{\rightarrow} \omega$
- there is a $g: \omega \overset{\text{surjective}}{\rightarrow}X$


Couldn't we pick $f=g$ knowing that a set is countable if it is equinumerous with the set of natural numbers $\omega$, i.e. if there is a $f: A \overset{\text{bijective}}{\rightarrow} \omega$?
@Ramanewbie Then don't ask "how do I do this", ask about the exact point you are having trouble with
Don't forget me, @Studentmath. :D
but that won't help me do it again with other coordonates @Hippalectryon
@Ted: Here's how I interpreted that comment when you first said it. I kept trying to do this: if $a = \eta \otimes g$, write our $E$-valued 1-form $\omega \otimes \sigma$. Then I wanted $a(\omega \otimes \sigma) = (\eta \wedge \omega) \otimes g\sigma$. This is wrong.
You are in Mathematics!
22:29
@TedShifrin After I publish my book you won't see me here anymore or in other places talking about math.
@Ramanewbie That doesn't make any sense
I know, @Studentmath, and I'm a mean ogre.
if you do what I did above you get $a(a\sigma) = 0$.
UGH I just lost a quetion I was writing.
@Chris'ssis: That's like my saying that once I retire you'll never see me again.
22:29
@Chris'ssis Why is that ? No matter how other people are, you can still do maths :/
Because I accidentally clicked "Answer my own question" and wanted to go back
So I tried to discard the Answer's draft, but it discarded my question's draft.
No, the Lie algebra bracket has to come in there, @Mike, if you're doing usual matrix multiplication stuff.
Right, but I couldn't see how :)
Turns out thinking globally instead of locally was better...
This is like saying $\omega\wedge\omega = 0$ for a regular $1$-form $\omega$, but not true for matrix-valued ones.
Right, I know.
22:31
@Mike: The sign of a good teacher is that (s)he makes the students figure everything out for themselves.
How do you guys deal with reading and reviewing your proofs/answers? I always find myself going mad when I try to do that. I even sometimes hand in tests without going over them too seriously because it just kills me to read what I wrote all over again.
Well, a good teacher should help before the students die of alcohol poisoning.
I'm a bad teacher @Mike.
@Studentmath: Imagine how painful it would be for me to read it, then.
@Hippalectryon Cet exercice je n'arrive toujours pas à trouver la bijection : Montrer qu’un morphisme u : E → F permet de définir une bijection $S \mapsto u (S)$ entre l’ensemble des sev de E contenant ker u et l’ensemble des sev de Im u. Quelle est la bijection réciproque?
Yeah, and not just once - over and over again, from plenty different people.
Though I find it easier to read other's answers and proofs, and review them
22:33
You yourself once said @Chris'ssis once you see the true beauty of mathematics you will never look at the world the same again.
@evinda $f$ and $g$ go in different directions, so you can't choose $f = g$ (unless $X = \omega$, then you can take $f = g$ if $f$ [$g$] is bijective).
I tell my students that they should write so that they could hand their paper to an average classmate and that average classmate should learn how to do the problem by reading it.
@Gato En dimension finie ?
Heya @DanielF :)
Bonjour @Ted.
22:34
That's a nice way to put it
non @Hippalectryon
haha @Gato: sev = sous-espace vectoriel ... Je n'avais jamais vu ça ailleurs :)
It's taken me 80 years, @Studentmath :P
@skullpatrol I said that, that's true. On the other hand, I'm very despressed & disappointed today (for some reasons) ...
@Gato Ah, je ne suis pas sur alors. En dimension finie ça a l'air assez direct, mais avec les nouveaux programmes de prépa on fait peu de dimension infinie
@DanielFischer I see... There is also the following remark:

The previous proposition holds if we replace $\omega$ with any countable set.


How could we show this?
22:35
@TedShifrin 80 years ?? are you serious ?
@DanielFischer I start Complex analysis this semester I hope it's cool!
Pourquoi pas?
You seem younger than 80, for sure >.>
@Evinda I guess with the very proposition itself
@Hippa: Si tu n'es pas sur, peut-être que tu sois sous.
22:36
@Hippalectryon Comment ferais-tu en dimensions finie? Perso je comprends pas bcp l'énoncé.
@TedShifrin You're 61 -__-
@Studentmath What do you mean?
@evinda Just compose with a bijection between $\omega$ and the arbitrary countable set.
@Gato No, it's hot.
smacks @DanielF for the hell of it
@TedShifrin héhé, it's very common here :)
22:37
@Ted you know, we don't get to retire until 67..
Not everyday is going to be encouraging @Chris'ssis, right?
@Studentmath: I've worked 36 years.
@Gato On veux une bijection $b:A\to B$ où $A$ est l'ensemble des sev de $E$ contenant $\ker u$, et $B$ est l'ensemble des sev de $Im u$, c'est ça ?
suspends @TedS for 30 nanoseconds from chat
@skullpatrol some are like hell.
22:37
And my style of teaching is labor-intensive, so I'd rather quit while I'm good than wait until I'm horrible.
@DanielFischer Even better :-)
@Chris'ssis some are like heaven :-)
@Hippalectryon yep
I undestand, I moreso meant we have problems with pensions, etc. if we quit before
@skullpatrol True, the day when I'm going to publish my book. :-)
22:39
@Gato You get awesome strong results with very little effort already.
@Studentmath: I never would have thought I'd stop this early, but with all the health problems I've had I figure I might not live so long.
Your first book @Chris'ssis :-)
3
@skullpatrol yeahhh :-)
@Ted that's very optimistic - I aim to drop down around 75
@DanielFischer Let $Y$ be a countable set. That means that there is a $h: Y \overset{\text{bijective}}{\rightarrow} \omega$. Which functions do we have to compose?
22:41
LOL, me too, @Studentmath ... I'd rather not decline with Alzheimers for 10-30 years the way my mother is.
@Gato Well let $n=\dim E$, $w=\dim\ker u$, then the dimension of $Im u$ is $n-m$, which is also the dimension $E/\{\ker u\}$
@evinda $f\circ h^{-1}$ and $h\circ g$
@Hippa: $E/\ker u$, not $\backslash$
@Ted Blah :( that's terrible. Parkinson like my grandfather is my fear
@TedShifrin I've always written $\backslash$
22:42
No, @Hippa, we need a vector space. You need to mod out, not subtract.
let's admit in a frame 3 points A, B, C and I such that I is the middle of [BC]. I don't understand why the directive coefficient of the median from A in the triangle ABC is given by $m=\dfrac{yi-ya}{xi-xa}$.
I'll accept your abject apology :D
@TedShifrin ( Í ° ÍŸÊ– Í¡°)
is that Arabic, @Hippa?
22:44
@Hippalectryon I still don't unserstand where you get that...
@TedShifrin It's Lenny (ง Í ° ÍŸÙ„Íœ Í¡°)ง
@DanielFischer very little effort: this gives already a good point, for now I only now the definition of holomorphic function. Does I need to 'find' my old course to calmly begin complex analysis?
@Ted nope
LOL @Studentmath :P
@DanielFischer Do we maybe have to take $h^{-1} \circ f$ because of the domain?
22:45
@Hippa: Don't criticize your own crummy English.
@TedShifrin My own ?
@Ramanewbie Define your frame first
@Hippalectryon What's wrong ?
@Gato Which old course?
I want to see you both write together, @Hippa @Ramanewbie
@Studentmath Write what together, and why ?
22:46
Oui, je suis convaincu qu'il est ton jumeau :P
@DanielFischer Or am I wrong? :/
@Hippalectryon it's a $(\vec{O},\vec{i},\vec{j})$ frame
@TedShifrin As if I had time for such things :/ If I did, I'd better waste it on making a 3rd Ted account :D
@Hippalectryon yep, this works but does not it gives no clue for the infinite dimensional case :(
@evinda When can you compose functions?
22:47
@Gato I don't know for this case either
@DanielFischer This why I ask you, I don't know perhaps I I need specific prerequisites.
Someone please help me reword this question
I thought that if we have for example $f:A \to B$ and $g: C \to A$ then $f \circ g: C \to B$, or not? @DanielFischer
@Gato: Je crois que ce n'est pas difficile. $S\mapsto u(S)$. What's the map back?
Perhaps @TedShifrin can help ;P.
22:48
@Hippalectryon is it ok now ?
I'm sick of rewriting the thing because SE keeps breaking while I write it.
@Ramanewbie That's a false formula, I believe. Where does it come from ?
@Axoren: Stop whining ... or wining :P
It's a French thing
22:49
map back?? @TedShifrin
maybe I gave a wrong traduction
@Gato You need a bit of real analysis, and if you have a clue about (general) topology [limits, compactness, connectedness, such things], that's good too. But the heavy machinery only enters late in the game.
@Hippalectryon look at the very bottom of the pdf
@evinda Yes.
@TedShifrin It was so much longer the first two times I wrote it. Let me whine briefly.
22:50
ok
@Ramanewbie is it still the same question?
@DanielFischer Yes I just finish one semester on topology. Thanks
What do you mean @Axoren
If $u\colon E\to F$ and $V\subset\text{im}(u)$, to what subspace of $E$ does it correspond? I.e., For what subset $S$ do we have $S\mapsto V$?
same question ?
22:51
Is this the intersecting lines question from last time?
oh no
it's an other one
Okay.
@DanielF @Gato: You need uniform convergence in a major way from real analysis :P
@Ramanewbie Forget what I said above. Everything is explained in the PDF.
@Hippalectryon I was trying what you said ^^
22:53
@Hippa: Ton confrère t'écoute ...
@TedShifrin locally uniform convergence, for the most part. But that's first semester stuff, isn't it?
It should be, yes ... certainly in France :P
@TedShifrin Remove the first three letters and you'll be accurate
Oui, nous parlons de la France.
Et t'as dit à ton frère que nous nous détestons, nous deux?
22:54
@TedShifrin Hm I a bit confused, for any subset of $E$: $S\subseteq E$
@TedShifrin How many languages do you speak!?
@TedShifrin Non non il verra bien :)
@Hippalectryon there's a problem withs you points, because it gives m=$\frac{1}{0}$
Write for any $S$, you send $S$ to $u(S)$. Now, given a subspace of $\text{im}(u)$, what subspace $S$ maps to it?
Is French the language you should learn for getting into higher level maths?
Or are there different languages dominating different disciplines?
22:55
@DanielFischer In our case $f: X \overset{1-1}{\rightarrow} \omega, g: \omega \overset{\text{surjective}}{\rightarrow} X$ and $h: Y \overset{\text{bijective}}{\rightarrow} \omega$.
So: $h^{-1}: \omega \overset{\text{bijective}}{\rightarrow} Y$.


Now we take :



$ h^{-1} \circ f : X \to Y $

$g \circ h: Y \to X$
@TedShifrin @DanielFischer Yes it's first semester stuff. Even if I was not in math section..so..
@Ramanewbie "There's a problem with your points" are you saying that my points do not exist... ? or just that your formula does not hold for all points ?
@Axoren You can also learn German.
French is way easier! =D
In the modern era, it becomes more and more computer programming, @Axoren. :P
@DanielFischer What can we conclude? :/
22:55
mr @Pedro :)
@Ramanewbie Besides, I told you to stop doing those points because all was explained in the pdf..
@Alessandro: A few :P
I would almost agree if it weren't for the fact that speaking German was as easy as speaking English while making funny faces.
@TedShifrin I am doubting the OP will benefit from this.
And my mouth doesn't make the proper sounds when trying to speak French.
22:56
@Axoren: Some of us have no sense of humour.
@Hippalectryon they don't explain the formula. They just say :
Umlauts? Easy.
@Axoren What is your native language?
English, second language Portuguese.
@evinda That $h^{-1}\circ f$ is injective, $g\circ h$ surjective, and hence that a bijection $\beta \colon X \to Y$ exists.
22:57
Which is odd, because that should make me more readily able to pick up French, right?
@TedShifrin je m'appele Isabelle is about all I remember from my middle school French :P but I can read a lot of french and spanish since they're very similar to italian
we calculate the coordonates of I. Then, here's the formula : ... @Hippalectryon
@Pedro: HE said no prior knowledge of complex analysis.
how do they get this formula ?? @Hippalectryon
@Ramanewbie That's isn't what is said. You're too tired to read a pdf properly, go to sleep.
22:58
@Pedro: He also said $U$ was open and $U\ne S^1$. Oy. I wrote out such stuff extremely carefully in my diff geo notes (not assuming any knowledge of complex variables or covering spaces or ...)
@Hippalectryon then I didn't understand what you said...
@Hippalectryon hippa : "all is explained in the pdf"
@DanielFischer Why do we conclude that the first is injective and the second surjective?
@Ramanewbie It's midnight anyway, get off your computer >:c It's bad to have a computer before sleeping
@TedShifrin Yes, I shouldn't have noted $U$ the same as his $U$.
it's 5 pm in the us e__e @Hippalectryon
22:59
But his $U$ was open, and he said $U\ne S^1$. I presume he meant $S^1\subsetneq U$.
No, petit @Ramanewbie, it's 6 PM.
@evinda because we started from an injective $f$ and a surjective $g$, and $h$ is bijective.
erm yes maybe
or 5 or 4 or 3
@Ramanewbie confirmed Central Standard Timer.
no
it IS 6 I'm sure
23:00
EST is 6pm.
there're 6 hours difference
ça dépend d'où
comment ca ? il n'y a qu'un fuseau pour la France @TedShifrin
Les États-Unis sont trop grands ...
@TedShifrin Just to confirm if I understand correctly: I have to find a subspace $S$ witch maps to a subspace of im(u)?
23:01
yes, @Gato.
@DanielFischer A ok... And how do we conclude that a bijection $\beta \colon X \to Y$ exists, although we don't have the same function from X to Y as from Y to X?
@TedShifrin there's 6 hours difference between France and NC
That's for sure
You know someone in NC?
North Carolina is EST, so yeah.
23:02
And you just called to check? :D
@TedShifrin LOL
@Hippa: Is his computer burning up and exploding, too?
no, I just remember when I was there there was 6 hours difference @TedShifrin ^^
@TedShifrin I don't think so, his is rather new
Depends whether we're on Standard Time or Daylight Savings Time. :(
23:04
@evinda This is set theory, isn't it? You certainly have already heard of the Cantor-Bernstein theorem?
Wanna bet, @DanielF?
@TedShifrin What are you gonna do at the end of the year ?
Qui sait?
You, if anyone
@TedShifrin only you know...
23:05
@TedShifrin I don't bet. I would always lose.
Gewiß, @DanielF
@DanielFischer Yes... I will see it shortly, it is in my notes... So do we use this?
I would.
Ok @DanielFischer Thanks for your answer!!! :-)
Ugh, can someone suggest an edit on my question? I wrote something wrong and can't figure out how to rewrite it.
23:08
@TedShifrin I have to take an onto maps ?
You wanted a bijection, @Gato. You had a map, and you wanted its inverse.
@Ted: that was really very anticlimactic.
It's basically just the usual $\Omega = d\omega - \omega\wedge\omega$ structure equations, @Mike. Nothing more.
I am lost now lol, l’image direct d’un sous-espace de E est un sous-espace de F and here I need that the image direct is included in Im(u) or I want the inverse of $S\mapsto u(S)$?
23:13
Well, for any $S\subset E$, we know that $u(S)\subset\text{im}(u)$. I'm asking you: Given $W\subset\text{im}(u)\subset F$, for what $S$ does $u(S)=W$?
*Given that $\ker(u)\subset S$? Very important.
@Hippa: Même le meme est ton jumeaux !!
@TedShifrin ??
Toi, t'es expert de memes.
Quel rapport avec un hypothétique jumeaux ?
can anyone explain me why I'm removed from the chat every 20 seconds ??
Parce que t'es méchant, toi aussi.
23:16
Haha
@TedShifrin not like hippa
less than him
peut-être un tout petit peu
@Ramanewbie Because it's too late for you. GO SLEEP
Darn
Hippa, it's too late for you too, then...
23:17
nods @teadawg
I'm older >:c
but I'ld like to what what's happening !
fake argument
@Hippalectryon lol, older than me?
@Hippalectryon you need to sleep more than me
23:18
@Chris'ssis i'm 17 -__-
@Hippalectryon :D
No, @Chris'ssis: Only DanielF and I are older than you.
@Chris'ssis Just ask @Ramanewbie
@TedShifrin Are you sure? :-)
because you get up earlier
23:18
@Hippa is going to regret having his confrère here :P
@TedShifrin I already do q_q
@Ramanewbie It's supposed to be a math chat, not skype
@Hippalectryon "I'm older >:c" is that maths ??
Now I'm putting you on ignore. Go to sleep already.
23:19
ok ok
Friends don't put friends on ignore...
^that's a load of crap
@teadawg1337 brother=/=friend
@Hippa Pfft, I'd ignore my brother any chance I get
@teadawg1337 Haha lol, see, you understand ;-)
23:21
@Hippa: Mais c'est toi qui l'a porté ici, évidemment.
@TedShifrin Pas ici, dans une autre room
@TedShifrin C'était plus pratique que Tox pour le LaTeX
Qu'est-ce que c'est que Tox?
sure it is.Tox doesn't support LaTeX
Basically, skype but more lightweight, and without the annoying features
annoying, huh?
23:23
... Why isn't there a LaTeX Instant messenger?
@Axoren I'd support that o/
Well, I just realized how shitty it would be as I said it.
Margin errors, mainly
Why ? It would just support tex
So you'll send the same message again with corrections like 40% of the time
Unless it has live-compilations.
That being said, I recall SE saying that this chat system we're using was a way to replace IRC, with better features
23:25
But then it requires that your friend have the same document class files.
Are they planning to make it public (i.e, available outside the SE sites, like IRC) anytime soon ?
It would be nice if it had a more keyboard-only approach, like IRC does.
You don't need the mouse here for most things
Sometimes, I just hate pulling my right hand off the keyboard to use the other features.
@DanielFischer And something else... According to my notes: $\{ +n: n \in \omega \} \subset \mathbb{Z}$ and thus $\mathbb{Z}$ is infinite.

Is this set: $\{ +n: n \in \omega \}$ equal to $\omega$ ?
23:27
@Hippalectryon How do I enter another room that I know the name of?
From the keyboard only?
@Axoren Ah true
@TedShifrin I am perhaps thinking too much, I will give another try tomorrow. Now I have to sleep it's 00:29 here. Thanks for your time, good night.
@Hippalectryon Il faut aller dormir lol
Good night chat-team!
Good night !
Oyasuminasai
@evinda That depends on how the unary $+$ is defined. Probably it's not equal to $\omega$, or the distinction wouldn't be made.
@DanielFischer $+n=[\langle n,0 \rangle]_R$.
For $\langle m,n \rangle \in \omega^2$ and $\langle k,l \rangle \in \omega^2$ we say $\langle m,n \rangle R \langle k,l \rangle$ iff $m+l=n+k$.
23:33
So it's obviously not the same, but isomorphic.
How do we conclude from $\{ +n: n \in \omega \} \subset \mathbb{Z}$ that $\mathbb{Z}$ is finite?
Is it like that?
Because $\{ +n: n \in \omega \}$ is isomorhic to $\omega$, it has the same properties, and thus it is finite.
A finite set is $\subset \mathbb{Z} \Rightarro \mathbb{Z}$ has to be finite.
use \to instead of \rightarrow. Faster and less chances of typos.
@Axoren Ok!
also \implies which renders as $\implies$ if you want the thick arrow like the \Rightarrow, \to looks like \rightarrow
@evinda $\mathbb{Z}$ is certainly not finite. It's infinite. It's a superset of an infinite set, so ...
23:41
@DanielFischer Yes... That's what I meant... :)
Could we prove that $f(\langle n,m \rangle)=m-n$ is surjective or do we just say that it is obvious?
@evinda What are domain and codomain of $f$?
@DanielFischer $f: \omega^2 \to \mathbb{Z}$
@evinda Okay, and how is $m - n$ defined?
@DanielFischer We haven't proven the subtraction between natural numbers. So in order to show that the set $\mathbb{Z}$ is countable would it be better to use an other function?
@evinda If $m - n$ isn't yet defined, $f(\langle n,m\rangle) = m-n$ makes no sense.
But, look at the definition of $\mathbb{Z}$. There's a pretty obvious surjection $\omega^2 \to \mathbb{Z}$.
23:47
@DanielFischer Could we pick this $f(\langle m, n \rangle) = m$ for example?
No. $m\in \omega$, so $m\notin \mathbb{Z}$.
Why does it hold that if $m \in \omega$ then $m \notin \mathbb{Z}$ ? :/ @DanielFischer
Look at the definition of $\mathbb{Z}$, @evinda.
$$\mathbb{Z}=\{ [\langle m,n \rangle ]_R: m, n \in \omega \}$$
Isn't the equivalence class of the ordered pair a natural number? Or am I wrong? @DanielFischer
Such an equivalence class is a set of pairs of natural numbers, @evinda, that's most certainly not a natural number.
23:54
So is it an ordered pair? @DanielFischer
No. A set of ordered pairs.
Wait, I'm confused. What is the $\langle \rangle$ notation being used for right now?
A pair?
Ordered pairs, @Axoren.
We also define $\mathbb{Z}$ as follows:
$$\mathbb{Z}=\{ +n: n \in \omega\} \cup \{ -n: n \in \omega \}$$
That's what I thought that the equivalence class is a natural number @DanielFischer
$-n=[\langle 0, n \rangle]_R$
@evinda But $+n \neq n$. These are different types of things.
23:59
@evinda an equivalence class is something like $=$, it relates two elements of a set and says whether or not they are "equivalent".

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