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17:00
(Alternatively, it's always a .txt file named b followed by sequence_id.)
@Fundamental @DanielFischer New Thierno M. SOW clone
Who is that guy? I've seen similar posts before.
Crank. Very persistent crank.
@MikeMiller Isn't that the very definition of crank? :)
17:11
Well, some level of persistence is included.
<-- Persistently cranky.
Hello @Ted.
How are you doing today?
hi Lord
Just had fun with my students going through the eight options of double integral exists, iterated integral exists in one order, iterated integral exists in the other order. :P
Since @Hippa is here, I'll certainly be cranky in moments.
@Ted Hahaha.
My presence doesn't contribute? I'm hurt.
17:19
You're almost on ignore like Balarka used to be, @Mike.
Besides, I said good night to you earlier.
@TedShifrin Lovely :).
Nothing interesting happening here, I see ...
Perfect, @Ted! I've been working hard for this.
Yeah, and I bet you'll whine just as much as he did.
Only about the comparison you're making.
17:22
Uh huh ...
Sounds like class was fun.
@MikeMiller Flagging your message as obsolete.
hi @DanielF
Hello, @DanielFischer.
Hi @Ted. All's well on your end?
17:24
@DanielFischer Will the new moderator staff take a more proactive stance towards TMS?
@MarkFantini Hello.
@Mike, if perchance you wish to be useful, take a gander
Reasonably, @DanielF, thanks, and you? What's TMS?
Hello !
@Ted Dear lord that's a long question!
is there a way to check if a number is normalized (Matlab workspace)?
17:26
Read the discussion between him and me in the comments, @Mike.
hi @Choups
@MikeMiller Well, the idea previously was to have SE deal with it comprehensively, but paternity leave postponed the "dealing with it". So now we're playing whack-a-mole in slo-mo.
@DanielF: Was bedeutet TMS?
@DanielFischer I flagged a set of posts by him a while back that weren't dealt with. Should I link you again?
@TedShifrin Thierno M. Sow, a persistent crank.
How can I write "x is invertible" in a math proposition ?
17:27
ooooh ... never run into that name
What do you mean, @Choups? You just did :)
@TedShifrin Who is he exactly ? I just saw his facebook page was in French...
@Ted I mean, with math symbols ;)
@MikeMiller Let me first see if you still have active flags.
Je n'ai aucune idée, @Hippa. Demande-le lui :P
Ugh non :c
17:28
What sort of thing is $x$, @Choups?
hello, please the assertion $|\sqrt{x}-\sqrt{y}|<\sqrt{|x-y|}$ is right for all $x,y\geq 0$ ? thank you
@TedShifrin $x$ is a ring
It was marked as helpful but no action was taken. The flag was on Nov 14.
@TedShifrin Maybe something like $x^{-1} \in A$ (If $A$ is the ring)
17:30
@Choups314 I guess you mean that x is an element of a ring. The way I would do this... is to write "x is invertible."
$x$ is an invertible element of a ring, @Choups? Normally, one would just say such a thing. In English, we also call such things units. The units in $R$ are often written $R^\times$.
But there is no context for $^{-1}$ unless one says beforehand that it makes sense, @Choups.
If you really want to be an insufferable pedant, you could write $\exists a (ax=xa=1)$,
@Lord_Farin i'm happy to see you how are you ?
is the hawaiian earring not semilocally simply connected because in every nbhd of the interesting point is a circle thats not null-homotopic?
in fact, infinitely many such, bananas, yes.
17:32
@MikeMiller "x is invertible" is better ;)
@TedShifrin ok good good
@MikeMiller have you an idea about my question, please
If I'm talking in algebra language, I would call $x$ a unit.
@TedS Uncountably many such.
17:33
I thought it was a very bad thing to melt math notations and "human speech" ^^
What? @Mike My Hawaiian earring has only countably many circles.
@Vrouvrou: You'd better put $\le$, not $<$.
@Ted But its fundamental group is uncountable.
We were talking about the geometric circles, @Mike, as I recall.
@r9m $\overline{\square}$
17:34
@TedShifrin ok, it is right for all $x,y\geq 0$ ?
Yes, @Vrouvrou. Work out the algebra carefully (perhaps write $x=y+h$?)
Il y a beaucoup de francophones ici ....
@MikeMiller Ah. Yes, that was "helpful, we're aware and keep an eye, but for the moment, we're waiting for SE action". Something has happened since making that page less embarrassing ;) Still a little left to brush away, though.
@TedShifrin if i say $|\sqert{|x|}-\sqrt{|y|}|\leq \sqrt{|x-y|}$ this is right for all $x,y\in \mathbb{R}$ ?
@DanielF @Mike: I had my first obnoxious comment from Dr. Sonnhard, and first wrote a snippy comment back to him, then decided to modify my answer to make his comment even more irrelevant :P
the cone $CX = (X\times [0,1])/(X\times\{0\})$ is contractible for every space $X$, right?
17:38
Stop asking and prove it, @Vrouvrou!
@DanielF Yes - there are no longer 16 votes on that answer, and one is missing.
I wish it was possible to leave comments so I could have known why it was helpful but no action :)
What do you think, bananas?
i prove it i just want to be sure that's all
@TedShifrin i think so, bc the bottom point is a strong deformation retract
i hope
So write it out, bananas :)
17:39
@MikeMiller It is now possible to leave messages for helpful flags, don't know when that was introduced, though.
@TedShifrin ugh
Hey all, I know that $p_n \sim \sum_{k=1}^n \log p_k$, where $p_k$ is the $k$-th prime, but how about the sign of their difference? Does it change infinitely often or not?
@Ted Link?
@TedShifrin Woah, didn't know Sonnhard started to make obnoxious comments on other answers. Bad news for somebody, I guess.
@iwriteonbananas yes
because everything on the cone homotopes onto the vertex.
17:42
@Mike: Here. I think the best term is "gratuitous comment."
@BalarkaSen can u write down a strong deformation retraction $r:CX\to \{ * \}$ ?
what is $X$?
what is $\{*\}$?
Worthless.
i guess the latter is a point?
CX is the cone, * is the vertex
17:43
@MikeMiller Hello.
Surely you can do it, @iwriteonbananas. Unless you're giving him a challenge, go ahead and do it!
@iwriteonbananas you can
@TedShifrin Howdy.
@TedShifrin!
17:43
i lost my pen
@MikeMiller Aye, but nothing serious, just mildly annoying.
Use a banana instead.
howdy @Pedro
actually everything def. rets. onto the vertex, @iwriteonbananas
17:45
@Balarka: Now you have a topology playmate :)
We used functional analysis in PDE today, @DanielF
@MikeMiller I haven't progressed on the $X^n \times I$ obtained from $X^n \times \{0\}\cup(X^{n-1}\cup A^n \times I)$ thing.
@BalarkaSen oh yeah
Mainly because I didn't think about it.
17:45
Oh, you're going to use it all over the place, @Mike.
But I will think about it now, and try to get back at you.
im retarded
What is the problem @Pedro?
You haven't gotten back to me, either, @Pedro :)
The professor made a point that "this is the only nontrivial theorem from functional analysis we will use".
17:46
@TedShifrin Oh, yes. I didn't think about the Putnam problem any further.
Which theorem was it?
ok wait so
the cone of the hawaiian earring is simply connected
Uniform boundedness, @Ted, which is pretty nontrivial :)
but hawaiian earring isnt even semilocally simply conneted
yes, sure.
17:47
Yes, @iwriteonbananas. So?
Oh, that's not bad, @Mike. I've proved that in an undergraduate class before.
semilocally simply connected is irrelephant
It's just Baire category.
@MikeMiller i dunno, im just rambling
@MikeMiller This is Banach Steinhaus, right?
17:48
cone on any space, even totally disconnected space, is simply connected
bananas, but can you contract the cone of the hawaiian earring to the interesting point, not the cone point?
@TedShifrin i say u cant
@Ted That's fair enough; we used it for Frechet spaces, but those are metrizable.
ok, bananas, prove it.
I recall needing things like open mapping or closed graph theorem, plus working with only densely defined linear operators, @Mike.
I claim uniform boundedness is more nontrivial. But anyway, I'm only quoting, don't shoot the messenger!
17:51
I figure something I proved to undergraduates can't be more nontrivial than stuff in the standard graduate courses :P
But I haven't thought about this in about 20 years.
Me neither :3
Open mapping, closed graph is also just Baire.
Open graph?
Brain typo.
Oh ...
I don't beremember.
17:53
This is the only actual interesting application of Baire I know...
@Pedro It's not hard.
@MikeMiller What's not hard?
@iwriteonbananas
@BalarkaSen im thinking
Take a space $X$.
Consider $X \times [0, 1]$
@Balarka: Be patient.
17:56
The thing you want to prove. Not the Putnam. I also remember that that's not hard but I don't remember how to prove it, so I won't call it not hard.
Identify $X \times \{0\}$ to a point
Identify $X \times \{1\}$ to a point
Call the resulting space $SX$
Is $SX$ always contractible?
@iwriteonbananas Something a little bit less pathological for you to think about.
@MikeMiller Oh. OK.
@Pedro But what is the problem?
@Pedro: Have you finally caught up and finished all your exams?
17:58
@BalarkaSen Don't worry about it.
@TedShifrin I have to sit for Complex Analysis and Algebra II, still.
You should get it done and over with :)
OK, @Pedro. The problems you think about are usually interesting, so I was just wondering...
I finally moved my French press and coffee to my office. Now I just need a couch and I can call it home...
@Vrouvrou I'm fine, thanks. How about you?
@TedShifrin Well, CA professor was away on a trip, so it was impossible.
@MikeMiller You despise the French, hypocrite!
18:01
I've been so sick yesterday that I have barely been able to think at all.
And I still haven't been able to fully recover.
@BalarkaSen It's an ugly verification: if $X$ is a complex and $A$ a subcomplex, then $X^n\times I$ is obtained from $X^n \times \{0\}\cup ((X^{n-1}\cup A^n )\times I)$ by attaching copies of $D^n\times I$ along $\partial D^n\times I\cup D^n\times \{0\}$.
Yikes. Maybe you should draw a picture or something.
@PedroTamaroff I have French poetry in my profile...
@MikeMiller I was joking.
Good.
You would have otherwise been in trouble.
18:09
@TedShifrin Can we prove that $S^2$ cannot be given topological group structure?
Yes, @Balarka.
Is there a proof I can understand?
Not yet :)
You need Lefschetz Fixed Point Theorem or some differential topology.
Any Lie group must have Euler characteristic zero, using smooth stuff, but by Lefschetz the same works for a compact topological group.
18:14
@TedShifrin Note that there are noncompact topological groups that have "nonzero Euler characteristic" in any reasonable sense; e.g. $\Bbb{CP}^\infty$ is homotopy equivalent to a topological group, but has nonzero homology precisely in even dimensions.
I think there's a connection of $S^n$ being a topological group with Hopf-like fibration structure on $S^{2n+1}$
Don't note it for any particular reason, just note it for funsies.
I have heard that $S^1, S^3, S^7$ are the only topological groups and there should be canonical action on each of these on $S^3, S^7, S^{15}$ respectively using complex number, quaternions and octonions structure on, respectively.
This is just vague philosophy, of course.
of course you mean amongst spheres, @Balarka
Yeah.
Otherwise there are lots of fibrations :P
$S^1 \hookrightarrow S^{2n+1} \to \Bbb CP^n$, for example.
18:20
@TedShifrin If a monotone function has a real limit in $\infty$, what of its derivative ?
Who knows, @Hippa ...
I hoped you would q_q
Do you mean must the derivative have a limit? Must it be $0$? Must it be $\infty$?
I think he means he assumes it does have a limit.
Must it have a limit (it would have to be $0$) ? @TedShifrin
18:21
its limit would have to be 0? How's that?
@BalarkaSen What is a fibration? Explain, and be precise.
@Hippalectryon Are you even going to change your sonic avatar?
@PedroTamaroff I have already told you what fiber products are.
@BalarkaSen S a nic !!
You didn't even care to pay attention.
@MikeMiller If it has a limit, if that limit were wlog >0, then $f$ would diverge
18:22
@BalarkaSen Huh?
Oh, I see your demands now.
I misread.
I know what a fiber product is. But I asked about fibrations.
@Hippalectryon then the answer is no. Consider a staircase whose steps get progressively shorter and shorter, and smooth it.
@MikeMiller How would its derivative not go to $0$ ?
18:24
Sigh.
@PedroTamaroff hahaha
@Hippalectryon Because it has a sequence of points going to infty such that the derivative is some fixed number, say, 1?
@MikeMiller Are you talking about $f$ or $f'$ ?
Well, there's not much difference between a fiber product and a fibration
There is a sequence of points such that f' is some fixed number.
f is the staircase.
in the other case the thing you are bundling with are homotopy equiv to the fibers i guess
18:27
Something like that.\
@Pedro why are you sighing?
:O 11/10 would sell in an art fair :D
@BalarkaSen Fiber product $\neq$ fiber bundle.
yes, yes, whatever. fiber bundle.
18:31
i have no idea why you are sighing.
Because of reasons.
what reasons?
@MikeMiller So, like, $f(x)=\displaystyle\sum_{k=0}^{\lfloor x\rfloor}\dfrac{1}{k^2}$ but smoothed?
i think of hopf fibrations as a map S^3 \to S^2 such that fiber over a point is S^1.
what's the problem with that?
I was trying to use 2^k, but yeah, precisely.
18:33
you can similarly think of S^1 acting on S^3 such that quotient S^3/S^1 is homeo to S^2.
@MikeMiller I guess it would be painful to smooth it by hand (i.e. express the smooted function), but its existence should be enough. How do I, however, justify that in every interval [n,n+1] the derivative is $1$ at least once (assuming that $f$ smoothed is $\mathcal{C}^1$)?
@MikeMiller What is Hippa trying to do?
@Hippalectryon By construction. Just make each of your stair steps look like $\int$.
(Without the curly parts.)
@PedroTamaroff Finding (or proving the impossibility of doing so) a monotone function such that $f\to_\infty l\in\mathbb{R}$ and $f'$ doesn't converge to $0$
@MikeMiller Ugh some kind of exponential branch then ? (two link two steps smoothly)
@Hippalectryon Oh. $\sin(x^2)/x$ should work.
The derivative oscillates.
18:37
@PedroTamaroff It isn't monotone
Oh, missed that.
Fine, you're forcing me not to be lazy. Use $\Psi(x/k^2)/k^2$ from this article as your staircases.
(Define your function piecewise. Each stair, incl. the 'vertical part' here, should be 1 long.)
@PedroTamaroff It's really stupid that you'll sigh at me for not spelling a bunch of huge names correctly. I have worked a whole week for visualizing the Hopf fibration and it's really disheartening to hear sneerish comments after working that hard. I don't know what a fibration is, OK? All I did was tried to find and visualize an S^1 action on S^3 such that S^3/S^1 is homeomorphic to S^2.
wherever $\Psi'(x) = 1$, the derivative of this new function is also 1.
If you think it's not hard, why don't you do it?
18:40
@DanielFischer I want to solve the recurrence relation: $T(n)=T \left( \frac{n}{2} \right)+T \left( \frac{n}{4} \right)+T \left( \frac{n}{8} \right)+n$.
I drawed this:
@MikeMiller I'll look at it thanks, 2 secs
@MikeMiller I say, promote your comment to a CW answer.
What @Lord_Farin said, @MikeMiller.
18:43
I feel odd posting an answer without justification. On the other hand, there's nothing to justify..
We should have a "convert comment to answer" tool ;)
The cost of the levels till the second last is equal to $\sum_{j=0}^i \left(\frac{7}{8}\right)^i n $ and $ i $ can be found from $\frac{n}{2^i}=0$ because it has the smallest possible denominator, right?

Is the cost of the last level equal to $T(1) \cdot 3^{i}$ ? Or am I wrong? @DanielFischer
@evinda I don't know, haven't calculated anything. But you should calculate a few, form a hypothesis about what $T(n)$ is, and set out to prove that by induction.
@DanielFischer Done. Should I delete my comment?
Your call.
18:50
@DanielFischer Yes, the hypothesis can be found from the recursion tree that I drawed and I found that the cost is: $$T(n)=\sum_{j=0}^i \left( \frac{7}{8}\right)^j n=n \frac{\left( \frac{7}{8} \right)^{\lg n}-1}{-\frac{1}{8}}$$

I was wondering which is the cost of the last level of the recursion tree..
Maybe I should pre-emptively set up my spam filter.
@MikeMiller Perhaps.

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