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00:03
@evinda I learned to enjoy hard work. Took me long enough, though.
@evinda Should have learned it sooner. :)
@MarkFantini When will you have exams?
@evinda I'll have an entrance exam, of sorts, in October. If I do well I also secure funding for graduate school. But I'm not studying merely to do well in the exam. I want to master the material!
@MarkFantini Oh nice!!!
Hi @Mark
@evinda What are your future plans?
@MikeMiller What do you study, Mike? :)
00:16
@MarkFantini I will graduate in 2 or 3 semesters and then I will make a master's degree..
Just a quick check: why does this have two downvotes? As far as I can tell, it's a mathematically valid answer...
Most likely because the answerer is giving the answer away to what seems like a HW question without any effort put in?
Do any of you here have any experience with graduate admissions for statistics programs?
I don't do much of anything yet, @Mark. I'm a first year grad student at UCLA. The direction I'm heading seems to be low-dimensional topology.
Oh, and it looks like the answer's wrong?
@anorton It has three downvotes now. The mistake appears to be in the second summand.
00:21
I know two professors who studied low-dimensional topology. Hate to say I know nothing about basic point-set topology. It's going to really be difficult to teach it to myself, at least I think...
@DanielFischer I want to show that the intervals (0,1) and (0,2) have the same cardinality. What 1-1 and surjective function could we pick?
We couldn't pick for example a f such that f(0)=0 and f(1)=2 because the function has to be surjective, so there has to be a x such that f(x)=1.. Or am I wrong?
@MarkFantini Oh my... I didn't pay attention to either of the summands when simplified. Thanks.
@Clarinetist I don't find point-set topology easy. The later topics are very hard to me, such as Stone-Cech compactification.
I just have to know it to the level of the subject test.
@evinda Why not $f(x) = 2x$?
00:23
The only background I have is some intro analysis (to the level of Bartle) and some abstract algebra (I like group theory more).
I agree with Mark. $f(x) = 2x$.
@anorton The question is a duplicate, btw.
@Fundamental voted, thanks. I haven't been paying too much attention to SE right now (school's starting back up, so I'm packing, etc.)
@MarkFantini For $y=1$ doesn't it have to be $x=\frac{1}{2}$ when we pick this function? Or am I wrong?
So this is going to sound insane to some of you... I found out recently that my math education was worthless. Meaning, if you were to compare my math education to those of people at a decent math school, my education didn't cover everything. For example, I never took topology, diff eq., discrete math, and the abstract algebra and analysis courses I had were "introductory" and Rudin and Dummit & Foote make my education look like a joke.

I'm trying to prep for the GRE subject test, and the last time I took it, I studied my calculus well and scored in the 18th percentile. What do you recommen
Sorry*
@evinda You are right, for $y=1$ it has to be $x=1/2$. But I don't see what is troubling you over this.
00:27
What I mean is Rudin and Dummit & Foote make my EDUCATION look like a joke.
ehich Rudin? And D&F is a graduate text...
@MarkFantini So do we also consider the rational points?
Just Baby Rudin.
@MikeMiller Does it really matter which? It's not like any of them are too easy, haha.
@evinda Yes.
D&F is graduate-level? That's surprising to hear, since everyone else that I've heard from says D&F covers everything one will learn in undergrad algebra.
00:29
Yes... that and more.
I've been told to learn up to field extensions.
@Clarinetist Graduate-level is not just content, but also presentation, difficulty, readership-level expected, amongst other things.
Do you have past exams? That may help in guiding you.
I think Mike Artin's book is the standard undergrad text.
I hear people praising Charles Pinter's Abstract Algebra.
I like Fraleigh's A First Course in Abstract Algebra.
I learned from Nicholson. Wasn't a fan of it, but it was all right... I suppose.
00:32
@MarkFantini So, do we say that it is 1-1 since if we take $x_1 \neq x_2 \Rightarrow f(x_1) \neq f(x_2)$ and it is surjective because it goes from $x$ to $2x$ so $\forall y$ there is a $x$ such that $f(x)=y$?
@evinda Yes. I prefer saying injective and surjective. Uniform terminology. :)
@MarkFantini Nice, thank you!!!
Yes, I do have past exams. I'm just extremely intimidated by the sheer amount of material.
Everything will be alright.
In the end, everything is fine.
:)
So, if everything isn't fine, it hasn't ended yet.
I would really like to get out of actuarial science.
I've applied for a M.S. statistics program in hope that doing that part time while doing my actuarial job will keep me sane.
00:41
Since I just graduated, I'm an optimist lately. Everything will be okay!
Heh, I graduated back in May. I guess actuarial science isn't all I thought it would be. It's kinda boring. :P
:p
I just noticed I answered one of your questions.
Imagine spending 8 hours a day in a cubicle where you spend your days copying-and-pasting spreadsheets and the most math you use is +, - , * , /, and percentages.
Zombie apocalypse is now!
Anyway, @MarkFantini, are you looking into graduate school? or did you just graduate from a graduate program?
or are you doing something else? Lol.
00:49
@Clarinetist Studying for graduate school in mathematical physics.
Taking a gap year to study physics and learn/polish mathematics.
:p
Among other things I didn't do while an undergraduate, such as taking care of my health.
Very, very nice. Yeah, I'm finally getting myself to exercise daily. I'm a lot happier because of that.
@MarkFantini Mathematical physics, huh? What kind of stuff?
I would really like to study stochastic processes.
@MarkFantini What do you mean that you didn't take care of your health?
@evinda No exercise, bad eating habits, not enough sleep...
00:53
@MarkFantini - Story of my (college) life.
@MarkFantini Aha... Do you do now?
Trying to, at least. Changing bad eating habits is hard. Sleep is easier.
So for those of you who have applied for graduate schools, I submitted my application on 1/1/2015. When should I expect to hear back? I haven't found much history online for the university I went to.
I don't know if I want to drop topology. The class doesn't seem very interesting to me.
university *I'll be going to.
00:58
I will go to sleep now... Good night!!!
@Clarinetist Of the schools I applied to in my season, I got results bac anywhere between 1/26 and sometime in March.
Ah, thanks @MikeMiller!
So random question I have right now. What is an easy way to check if a metric space is complete? I recall that the definition of a complete metric space is one in which each Cauchy sequence is convergent.
@Mark just exercise
it will fix itself
if you exercise
I don't know if there's an easy way to check it. I've never seen a proof that a metric space is complete that doesn't, well, check that every Cauchy sequence is convergent.
Compact spaces are complete, if that helps.
And that's where knowing topology would help. I only know some basic analysis. What does it mean to be compact?
01:02
In terms of metric spaces, it means that any sequence $(x_n)$ has a convergent subsequence. (Any sequence!)
You prove, using this, that Cauchy sequences converge by picking a convergent subsequence, and using the Cauchy property to see that the whole sequence converges to that limit, too.
Reminds me of Bolzano-Weirstrauss for some reason... starts looking up B-W theorem
@MikeMiller I don't know yet what kind of stuff in Mathematical Physics. Getting to know physics as well to choose.
@evinda Good night!
@Clarinetist It should, because B-W classifies the compact subsets of $\Bbb R^m$. :)
@MarkFantini I see. Cool!
01:17
@MikeMiller Are you enjoying your first year? How much coursework do you have?
@MarkFantini I'm enjoying it a lot, though (because?) I'm busier than ever before. This quarter I'm taking three courses and participating in a seminar.
@MikeMiller That's great. I imagine it's nice participating in a seminar. Coursework, though...my experience with coursework is awful, to say the least.
Have any of you seen truth tables drawn like this before? Is it more common than say if I were testing $p \vee q$ to write each case for each possible truth value for $p$ and $q$, then using these to generate the truth values for $p \vee q$?
i.e., what I'm more familiar with is something like
Just a quick question. Suppose I have a statement which says if $A$ then either $B$ or $C$ is holds. Is it enough to say, suppose $B$ is false, then $C$ must be true?
Oops.
$\begin{array}{ccc}
p & q & p \vee q \\
\text{T} & \text{T} & \text{T} \\
\text{T} & \text{F} & \text{T} \\
\end{array}$ and so forth...
01:40
@Clarinetist Yeah, I've seen that style before. It's like a multiplication table (think Cayley tables from algebra if you've had that). However, the way you typed out in the message above this one is much more common.
@muffle Almost. You need to also know that $A$ is true.
 
2 hours later…
03:52
Hello. I have written a program that solves an nxn matrix for positive integers as coefficients. Oh yes oh yes.


At least for only lower triangular positive coeffs; the rest can be negative
@DonLarynx Hands you a medal.
It's a chocolate medal.
Still a medal.
eats the medal
@DonLarynx Congratulations. Now you're medal-less.
04:10
@JasperLoy Wait, what.
@PedroTamaroff You need to delete that kind of thing? Maybe I should not have voted for you.
@JasperLoy Yes, Jasper.
04:22
@JasperLoy Yes, that was inappropriate.
Hi all.
@MikeMiller Can I ask you a question about the answer I commented on?
Nevermind. I figured it out.
You could still ask, @MichaelAlbanese. Is there something wroth clarifying?
(Since you're 10k you also see my very silly deleted answer...)
04:53
@TedShifrin Hello.
Greeting, Sir @Pedro
@TedShifrin How's the weather there? Sister returned to -10° weather.
Not that cold here ... Lowest was 14°F ... But up north and Chicago crazy cold.
You're handing out medals?
@TedShifrin Hehe, yes.
I also had to delete some stuff.
Jasper left.
Do you mean went to bed, or actually left?
05:02
I guess I missed all the excitement. When do I get deleted?
heya @Kaj ...
it's morning there, @Kaj.
Hey there!
Or afternoon ...
morning
@MikeMiller Mike, do you like coherent modules?
Probably not.
@PedroTamaroff I asked my friend Kevin and he said that's a stupid concept.
05:10
@MikeMiller Justification?
He did not provide any.
Disappointing.
But what's the point? You're talking about non-Noetherian rings, why don't you just talk about schemes?
Coherent modules ... Vector bundles are examples. Far from stupid.
05:54
I hope there's more non-technical questions tomorrow
@PedroTamaroff should this be migrated to theoretical computer science? math.stackexchange.com/questions/1099671/…
06:18
@MikeMiller, @PedroTamaroff, real quick: Do either of you know what library I need to import for \bigcup and \bigcap in LaTeX?
Oh never mind. It wasn't rendering because I didn't close a {
06:36
hi folks, i have a question about a physical workout done in a gym. Sorry, it is not relevant in mathematics, but I don't know where I have to ask to get the quick answer. Do you know what the name of the following workout?
The man just pulls the handle approaching his stomach. And do it again and again.
Those are low rows @stalkingisprohibited. Did some just yesterday :D
@KajHansen Oh thanks. What is the purpose of doing this workout?
It works a lot of muscles in your back, like your traps and lats, as well as a some biceps. Not to mention keeping yourself stable and in good form while doing them will be a bit of an isometric exercise for your abs.
@KajHansen Oh ok. thanks.
If you row as in the sport, they're an awesome exercise for that
06:47
I want to have sickpack quickly, does it help?
haha, I do very little abs-specific exercises and I have an alright six-pack. The abs will stabilize you in almost every non-abs related lift you do -- everything from squatting to overhead press and everything in between. So really anything you do, at least free-weights wise, will help your abs.
I'm not really sure what the best thing to do for just getting abs as fast as possible. I'm more of the philosophy of developing all the muscle groups evenly.
For a six-pack you gotta do A LOT of sit-ups
I've done relatively few sit-ups, but they'll help no doubt
When you get strong enough you can hold on to a weight plate
Yeah. That'll do it. Weight plate on a decline bench.
06:55
Some guys even hang up side down :-/
Hi @skullpatrol, how are you feeling?
@JasperLoy Did you cool off?
I do bicycle crunch everyday.
@PedroTamaroff I was not even angry. I have enough mental problems to deal with.
07:00
@JasperLoy Well I don't recall you storming in like that before.
@PedroTamaroff Storming in or out? Don't you know that I enter or leave chat 9000 times a day?
@JasperLoy Well, you entered and wrote something which wasn't usual of you.
@PedroTamaroff Oh well, I thought it was usual of me to say weird things. I say weird things all the time.
I guess @skullpatrol has left the chat.
@stalkingisprohibited How is your physical health? Do you still have the same problem?
@JasperLoy Better but still has no confidence.
@stalkingisprohibited Confidence in what?
@PedroTamaroff Actually, I was just referring to the chocolate medal. You should have a better sense of humour.
07:07
@JasperLoy Hehe. Really? Did that put you off that bad? =D
@PedroTamaroff It did not put me off. The chocolate medal is funny, so is my bullshit.
@JasperLoy In showing off my physical appearance.
@stalkingisprohibited I see. Are you getting married soon?
@JasperLoy No partner to get married. :-(
I am just a single point on the complex plane as usual.
as always.
How old are you @stalkingisprohibited ?
07:13
@KajHansen Around 20 years old.
(I realize the irony of that question)
@stalkingisprohibited You no longer call me honey?
@JasperLoy No. Honey. :-)
@stalkingisprohibited Anyway, I am still the same, struggling with my mental problems.
@JasperLoy Is it so hard? I have physical problem and I think it is harder.
07:15
@stalkingisprohibited Yes. It is very hard.
@KajHansen She is very secretive. Impossible to get much info out of her, like skullpatrol.
@JasperLoy Oh my ghost. My mind is often blank in a couple of seconds when doing something. Is it common issue?
@stalkingisprohibited Yes, it is common. If it persists see a doctor.
@JasperLoy Mental doctor?
08:02
thinks he just came into the wrong room
lol :D
@BalarkaSen Yes, go away!
>:)
^master of sarcasm.
:-)
08:28
08:42
OMG, I've just heard the funniest thing :D
@anon!
@Nick not funny, lol.
"In complex analysis, a removable singularity (sometimes called a cosmetic singularity) of a holomorphic function is a point at which the function is undefined, but it is possible to define the function at that point in such a way that the function is regular in a neighbourhood of that point."
What is meant by "regular"?
does that just mean holomorphic?
09:43
@TheSubstitute Yes.
10:10
Is a holomorphic function meromorphic? (does a meromorphic function imply existance of at least one singularity?)
@dietervdf No.
Meromorphic means holomorphic save a discrete subset of the domain you're in. The empty set is certainly discrete.
10:34
Btw @stalkingisprohibited there is a Physical Fitness.SE :-)
Fitness.SE
11:31
Hello!!! If we want to show that the singleton $\{a\}$ is finite we can take the function $f: \{ a \} \overset{\text{1-1 and surjective}}{\to} 1$ with $f(a)=0$.. Why can we write $f=\{ \langle a,0 \rangle \}$ ?
12:19
that's a bit old "As far as I can tell--and I have actually read some of the stuff Mochizuki has written, unlike many people who casually dole out harsh criticism of this dear mathematician--as far as I can tell this man has been extremely polite throughout this whole episode. Even describing him as "angry" is unsupported by any facts I have seen. If you read this article, he is quoted as saying he is "a bit disappointed" -- extremely mild, perfectly polite. When I read Mochizuki's latest update, he seemed to understand why mathematicians don't have the motivation to learn his work. I would
12:42
who are you quoting, @user153330?
@BalarkaSen a comment by someone who have read some of the stuff Mochizuki has written (not me)
also, it's posted on december 2014. i wouldn't call that "old".
@BalarkaSen you should change your RSS feed
wat
oh wait is the pdf just an update of the older versions?
@user153330 yes, i get that, but who is it?
is that from MO?
actually, @user153330, it is not an update. this article was posted on december 2014.
12:49
i am not subscribed to that.
@BalarkaSen you should
what's the point of getting a bunch of notifications about articles that'll go way above my head? :P
@BalarkaSen there's a specific RSS feed for students
interesting
13:29
@TedShifrin I'm dropping topology
Opinions?
No opinions needed it has been done!
13:41
Hello @DanielFischer !!! I am looking at the proof of the proposition: The union of two finite sets is a finite set.
Let $X,Y$ finite sets. Then there are $n, m \in \omega$ such that $X \sim n$ and $Y \sim m$, i.e. there bijective functions $f,g$, $f:X \to n$, $g: Y \to m$
Then we are looking at the case $X \cap Y=\varnothing$.
We define the function $h(x)=f(x)$ if $x \in X$, $h(y)=n+g(y)$ if $y \in Y$.
Is this the only possible function that we could pick?
13:52
How do you know that a bijective function exists??
Take X = 2, Y, 3. No bijective f exists
@evinda No, there are more functions. You could take $h(y) = g(y)$ if $y\in Y$ and $h(x) = m + f(x)$ for $x\in X$, for example (which is different unless at least one of $X$ and $Y$ is empty). Generally, the bijections $X\cup Y \to m+n$ are the maps of the form $h\circ \pi$, where $h$ is the above, and $\pi$ a permutation of $X\cup Y$.
@DanielFischer @evinda?
@DonLarynx A set $A$ is finite it is eqinumerous with a natural number $n$. And if the latter holds, it means that there bijective function $f:A \to n $
@DonLarynx I'm not sure what you're aiming at. We have the assumption that $X,Y$ are disjoint finite sets. So by definition there exist bijections $f\colon X\to n,\; g\colon Y \to m$ for some $n,m\in \omega$. Then one can define $h$ as above, which is a function $X\cup Y \to m+n$. Then one checks that it is bijective.
But necessarily $ n = m $ @DanielFischer
14:00
@DonLarynx No, why? $X = \{a,b,c\}$ and $Y = \{d\}$ gives you $n = 3$ and $m = 1$.
And there's a bijection between only one element in X and another in Y @DanielFischer. You cant have a bijection between 3 elements and one
@DanielFischer What are the possible permutations of $X \cup Y$ ? :/
@DonLarynx We're not looking for a bijection between $X$ and $Y$. We have bijections between $X$ and one special finite set, and between $Y$ and another (or the same) special finite set. We are looking for a bijection between $X\cup Y$ and a third special finite set.
3
@evinda A permutation of a set $A$ is a bijection $\sigma \colon A \to A$. If $A$ is finite, the set (group) of all permutations of $A$ is isomorphic to the symmetric group $S_{\operatorname{card} A}$.
2
@DanielFischer We couldn't pick a function $h$ such that $h(x)=f(x), x \in X$ and $h(y)=g(y), y \in Y$, right? :/
14:15
@DanielFischer Hello Daniel!
@evinda Unless one (or both) of $X,Y$ is empty, that wouldn't be bijective. If $f(x_0) = 0$ and $g(y_0) = 0$, then that would give $h(x_0) = h(y_0)$ but $x_0 \neq y_0$.
3
Hola @Pedro.
@PedroTamaroff how to write $\frak a$ on paper so that it doesn't look like regular $a$?
Greetings
@Chris'ssis greetings
@DanielFischer Then we want to show that $h: X \cup Y \to n+m$ is $1-1$.
Let $a,b \in X \cup Y$ with $h(a)=h(b)$.
When $a \in X, b \in Y$ then why does it hold that $h(a)<n$ ?
14:30
@user153330 Hello
@Chris'ssis how're you?
@user153330 Not bad. You?
@Chris'ssis as always, so nothing new?
@user153330 No
@user153330 Practice it. This may help.
14:33
@Chris'ssis so what's new?
@user153330 Nothing new to share. :-)
@evinda Because for $a\in X$, we have $h(a) = f(a) \in n$.
@DanielFischer Isn't it $f(a) \subset n$?
@evinda No, we have $f\colon X \to n$, so $f(a) \in n$ for all $a\in X$. And yes, $n$ is transitive, so $z \in n \implies z \subset n$, and therefore also $f(a) \subset n$ for $a\in X$. But we wanted to see $f(a) < n$, and "$<\;\, \equiv\;\, \in$", so $f(a) \in n$ is the thing we're interested in.
3
@Chris'ssis you're aware of the mit integration bee, right?
14:42
Hello! I was wondering if someone could give me an example of a difficult problem which could be easily solved if you drew a diagram.
@JeelShah most geometry problems
Is there a famous problem that you may know?
@user153330 Not really.
@DanielFischer So, if we have a function $f:A \to B$ and $a \in A$ then $f(a) \in B$ and $f(A) \subset B$, right?
@JeelShah i don't know of a particular problem
@Chris'ssis you should! it's a competition done each year at MIT where one has to solve some tough integrals see : math.mit.edu/~sswatson/integrationbee.html
14:44
@user153330 Essentially, I'm writing a blog post and I want to illustrate some problem solving techniques and one of them is drawing a diagram and I want to illustrate how some difficult problems can be done easily if you draw a diagram.
@user153330 Interesting. Let me read it. :-)
@evinda Right. But be aware that $f(a) \in B$ does not rule out the possibility that additionally $f(a) \subset B$ even if $B$ is not transitive.
3
@user153330 does it seem to me or they are just easy questions (I just looked at 2014 questions)?
I see.. :) @DanielFischer
@Chris'ssis you shouldn't look at the qualifying round questions, those are easy, in fact even the integrals given to the final rounds are easy although they're a bit difficult if you don't know the right trick
14:49
That's what I usually write.
@PedroTamaroff thanks
@user153330 Sure, one needs to know some math though ...
@DanielFischer so if we have a bijection between m elements of a set with some naturals and n elements of another set with some other naturals, how do we prove there's a bijection consisting of m+n elements ?
I start with a downstroke, its like drawing a rhombus starting from the right vertex.
@Chris'ssis example: $$\int\frac{dx}{\pi x^2+\tan^{-1}x+x^2\tan^{-1}x+\pi}$$
14:52
@user153330 Yeap. Just factorizing a bit ... and we're done ...
@DanielFischer Then it is shown like that that $h: X \cup Y \to n+m$ is surjective:

Since $h: X \cup Y \overset{\text{1-1}}{\rightarrow} n+m$, we have that $X \cup Y \sim h[X \cup Y]$. The set $h[X \cup Y]$ is finite since it is a subset of the natural number $n+m$. Therefore, $X \cup Y$ is finite.
Why do we show like that that h is surjective?
@Chris'ssis example: $$\int\frac{\cot xdx}{\log(\sin x)}$$
@evinda That does not directly show that $h$ is surjective.
@user153330 $$\int\frac{(\log(\sin x))' dx}{\log(\sin x)}$$
@Chris'ssis seems i was mistaken
14:56
@DanielFischer I found it in my lecture notes... How else could we show it?
@user153330 Where?
@Chris'ssis in my assumption that some are difficult
@user153330 the last integral is not a really good idea to give to the students. You get log of something negative.
@evinda Well, you can directly show that every $k < m+n$ is in the image of $h$.
@user153330 (when thinking of definite integrals)
15:00
@DanielFischer So since $n+m=\{ 0,1,2, \dots, n+m-1 \}$ we have to show that $\forall k \in n+m$ there is a $x \in X\cup Y$ such that $h(x)=k$ ?
@Chris'ssis yeah
@user153330 In Romanian contests there were problems far far far harder than these ones (given to the high school kids). In terms of integrals MIT is just a mit.
2
@DanielFischer If so, do we have to distinguish again cases for x?
@Chris'ssis link? what about hungarian/russian/chineese problems?
@user153330 I have seen some during the time. I have them somewhere. Probably I'll also add some to my book.
15:03
@evinda Yes. Well, since we're starting from the set $n+m = \{ 0,1,\dotsc,n+m-1\}$, we distinguish the cases $k < n$ and $n \leqslant k < n+m$, but that amounts to the distinction whether the preimage is in $X$ or in $Y$.
@DanielFischer So we want to show that $\forall k<n, \exists x \in X \rightarrow x \in X \cup Y$ such that $f(x)=k$ and that $\forall n \lew k<m+n, \exists y \in Y \rightarrow y \in X \cup Y$ such that $f(y)=k$, right?
@evinda The map is $h$, not $f$, but otherwise it's right.
Oh yes, right @DanielFischer And how could we do this?
Daniel Fischer rocks the star board! With 6 out of 10 in his name. (edited)
I knew it.
@Oracle Daniel Fischer is the One.
Everyone knows it.
In fact, you predicted that.
:P
15:18
Why are people starring like crazy? Winterbash is over, no more hats to gain.
I am tempted to star that.
That's right, @DanielFischer, do you have powers to see who starred a post?
Mods don't have that ability I believe, @Oracle.
They can unstar stuff though.
later people
see you later pal
15:21
Hmm.. mods don't have enough powers.
Well, living in the Matrix has it's drawbacks.
Such as..
Nobody has enough power :P
thinks he should stop making matrix puns and get back to algebraic topology
15:39
@DanielFischer Could we use the cardinality in order to show this? :/
@evinda That depends on what is already proven about cardinalities. The thing at hand can be a part of establishing that cardinal arithmetic for finite cardinals behaves as expected.
@DanielFischer I has been proven the Pigeon Principle of Dirichlet, a theorem that each natural number isn't equinumerous to a proper subset of it and the properties:
-if $n,m \in \omega$ and $n \sim m$ then $n=m$
-if $X \sim n$ and $X \sim m, n,m \in \omega$ then $n=m$
-If the set X is finite and $Y \subsetneq X$ then $X \not\sim Y$
- The set $\omega$ is finite
16:00
@evinda The last line ought to be $\omega$ is infinite. Anyway, the list doesn't include that for $X\sim n$ and $Y\sim m$ with $X\cap Y = \varnothing$ we have $X\cup Y \sim n+m$, which is the thing we would need. Since we don't have that yet, we must prove it. Which is done by showing that $h$ is a bijection.
@DanielFischer We have shown that it is 1-1, right?
How can we show that it is surjective?
@evinda For every $k < n+m$, find an $a\in X\cup Y$ with $h(a) = k$.
16:15
@DanielFischer We want to show that $\forall k<n, \exists x \in X \rightarrow x \in X \cup Y$ such that $h(x)=k \Rightarrow f(x)=k$ and that $\forall n \leq k<m+n, \exists y \in Y \rightarrow y \in X \cup Y$ such that $h(y)=k \Rightarrow n+g(y)=k \Rightarrow g(y)=k-n$, right?

For $k<n$ we know that it holds since $f$ is surjective, right?
16:32
@evinda Yes, but writing "$\exists x \in X \rightarrow x\in X \cup Y$" is not correct. Since you already know which set the preimage of $k$ must come from, you can write "$\exists x \in X$ such that ..." and analogously for $y\in Y$. And in the "$g(y) = k-n$" part, you have a slight problem in that subtraction is not defined on $\omega\times \omega$, it is definable (with the expected semantics) only on a part of it, $\{ (a,b) \in \omega\times\omega : b \leqslant a\}$.
2
If you have defined subtraction on that set before, it's okay, otherwise you must write something along the lines of $\bigl(\forall k \in \{n,\dotsc,n+m-1\}\bigr)\bigl(\exists ! l \in m\bigr)(k = n+l)$, and then use that there is a $y\in Y$ with $g(y) = l$. It's the same argument, but unless you have the necessary things to use the simpler language, you must use the more cumbersome.
2
16:43
Perhaps I'm moronic for noticing this only now, but $24^2+10^2=26^2$
Oh.... Yup, I'm moronic. It's just a scalar multiple of the 5-12-13 Pythagorean Triple...
I need more sleep...
16:55
@DanielFischer Is it right so far?

We want to show that $\forall k<n+m$ there is a $b \in X \cup Y$ such that $h(b)=k$.

We know that $X \cap Y=\varnothing$

We will show that $\forall k<n$ there is a $x \in X$ such that $h(x)=k$.

For $x \in X$: $h(x)=k \Rightarrow f(x)=k$

Since $f$ is surjective, we conclude that $\forall k<n, \exists x$ such that $f(x)=k$.


Now we will show that $\forall n \leq k <n+m$ there is a $y \in Y$ such that $h(y)=k$.

For $y \in Y: h(y)=k \Rightarrow n+g(b)=k$

I haven't defined subtraction on that set before.. Could you explain me further what we have to do?
17:22
@user153330 Inspired by you (because, you know, I create questions even when looking at the way the stars stay on the sky - seriously) I created this one
$$\lim_{\epsilon \to 0}\frac1\epsilon\int_{\large \epsilon}^{\large 2\epsilon}\frac{1}{2\pi+n(n+1)x}\left(\frac{1}{1+x^2}+\frac{1}{1+(2x)^2}+\cdots +\frac{1}{1+(nx)^2}\right) \ dx$$
@user153330 ^^^
@robjohn I wasn't fast enough to delete the question. Can you delete it please?
@robjohn The question is simply amazing.
I'm so creative!!! :D
I missed $1/\epsilon$
Hmmm, maybe it's not hard at all this way ...
17:41
@Chris'ssis oh! glad i inspired you! that's a nice looking question =) did you manage to solve it?
@teadawg1337 yup
@user153330 Sure :-)
@Chris'ssis i guess the result is as nice as i'm expecting?
@user153330 Yeah, it's very nice.
@Chris'ssis so what is it?
@user153330 I'll tell you later on. Maybe someone comes up with a solution.
Anyway, it's easy :-(
17:44
@Chris'ssis okay let me work it out
@user153330 OK :-)
Darn it. Hatcher's 0.13 is hard.
@DanielFischer
@user153330 The correct version is (I added $1/\epsilon$ in front) $$\lim_{\epsilon \to 0} \frac{1}{\epsilon}\int_{\large \epsilon}^{\large 2\epsilon}\frac{1}{2\pi+n(n+1)x}\left(\frac{1}{1+x^2}+\frac{1}{1+(2x)^2}+\cdots +\frac{1}{1+(nx)^2}\right) \ dx$$
@user153330 l'Hopital, of course ...
17:59
thankfully haven't activating chatjax yet.

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