Hello, @Jyrki

Hi @JyrkiLahtonen I voted for you.

Is this the future-moderators convention? :)

Hello @JyrkiLahtonen

I had to bump you up on my votes based on your morning meta. (Daniel didn't need that vote anyway.)

Election closes in just 1 hour.

@JyrkiLahtonen Note that we have the same initials.

There was a morning meta, @Mike?

LOL @JasperLoy

:-) Been awhile since I visited this chatroom. Thanks for the props guys!

@TedShifrin Don't read it, it might just piss you off.

If you're anything like me, at least.

Which item in particular should I not read?

You seem like you're in a bad mood today @MikeMiller

@TedShifrin Anything Bill wrote.

Anything I can do to make it better?

Bill writes nonsense.

Sorry for the late reply, @skull! Hey!

Burn and destroy the people who I don't like, and the people whose opinions I don't like

At the very least, do it on the intersection, which at the moment is precisely one person.

@KhallilBenyattou np pal better late than never ^_^

Is this the Bill that everyone adores and missed so much when he was gone? I still don't know which post y'all are referring to.

Yes, @Ted

"Everyone"?

That Bill Dubuque.

from MIT

@TedShifrin you're thinking about Brian Scott

No, no, I'm not thinking of Brian M. Scott.

So I used to witness, @Mike.

Comments in here

people adore BD?

I don't know what his association with MIT is.

I don't like Brian Scott's opinions, and I don't like his site philosophy, but he knows what he's talking about and he expresses his opinion in a reasonable fashion.

So he is only in one of the above categories.

i belong to any of those categories, @mike?

@MikeMiller Yeah I like Brian Scott, I'd consider him to be a good guy, even though I do disagree with his opinions

And what are his opinions that you disagree?

That $T_4$ spaces are by definition $T_1$ for example.

I do like it that he gives reasonably complete answers.

@DanielFischer Hahaha.

Brian has attacked me a few times, @Alex, just because we disagree on the hint/full answer thing. I found it sour grapes that he impugned my teaching when his teaching record that's available on the Web is pretty mediocre.

hahaha @Daniel

@JasperLoy I'm anti-PSQ he's not

Some hints are really too sketchy, and one can give reasonably complete answers without being totally complete, so I belong to the reasonably complete answers camp.

Yeah, @Jasper, he has done many a student's homework completely.

@TedShifrin So have I, lol.

You shouldn't even belong to any camp, @Jasper, since you don't believe in problems.

Brian is ok. The threats to leave the site are a bit of old hat. BD has cried that particular "wolf" a bit too often. Brian did leave for a year, so he's serious about it. That worries me.

@TedShifrin He attacked me once about it and I dragged him into chat

He did leave for quite a while, @Jyrki.

If I leave, nobody cares. I am only a banana.

There are a few people who do not even pretend to contribute to the site yet hang around.

Maybe I need to be a banana, @Jasper.

@TedShifrin Brian or Bill?

He ended up making some good points and I became a little less extremist in my PSQ views

Update: a recount shows at least two people in both categories. I forgot Dilaton.

Brian, @DanielF. I've never interacted with Bill, although I don't like much of what he says.

but I am still anti-PSQ

@AlexanderGruber What is PSQ?

@JasperLoy Like a copy-paste homework question

@TedShifrin Yes, Brian just left for a while, it's Bill who always says "I'll leave the site".

Well, he did, too, I thought. Shortly after I arrived here 2 years ago.

Sometimes, I think it would be good if I got back my 20k account, but it's alright.

@TedShifrin His longish absence was not entirely his own decision.

@DanielFischer Dilaton tried to be a busybody on Academia.SE earlier.

@DanielFischer not at all.

@MikeMiller Yeah, he has a mission, "SE is teh evil".

This sure is amusing.

I am looking in some solution, and I forget some thing, but, it is $o(\frac{1}{x}+\frac{1}{x^2}+o(\frac{1}{x^2}))=o(\frac{1}{x^2})$ when $x \to \infty$? It's little oh.

whoa @Ted

@DanielF For all his praise of the MathOverflow model, some MO users were not happy about the practices of PhysicsOverflow, which he is an administrator of.

@TedShifrin BD has been crossing swords with most of the math community for ages

since before SE ever was

He is like Dracula

He wants a "better platform", obviously

but none of the existing ones fits his needs.

Well, I don't find Bill on the MIT AI faculty list. Perhaps he's actually retired?

I know he was involved in developing Macsyma back in the early days ...

Do you have reason to believe he was faculty there?

Gah, his comments.

I am faculty of Banana University.

well, what is his MIT association?

he has a few papers here and there

It's a bit difficult to figure out what BD wants. During my first year it sounded like he was anti-PSQ. At least he was anti-FGITW. I apparently thought that the two are related.

OK, too many acronyms for me. WTF is FGITW?

Fastest Gun In The West

lol

I don't know a reason to believe he has one, @Ted

@AlexanderGruber haha

"The development team, at this time, included Jeff Golden (language, compiler, etc.), Bill Gosper (special functions, summation), Howard Cannon (user interface, optimization), and several consultants. Bill Dubuque worked on integration, equation solving, database, and optimization. Christopher Stacy and David H. Wood taught Macsyma MATLAB's language and matrix functionality. Other developers made major contributions in numerical analysis, graphics, and help systems."

@Ted Archimedes Plutonium is a crazy person, if you didn't know.

@TedShifrin Actually, if I really wanted to do problems, I can just do those in my books. So it seems there is no need to get more problems from you.

I guess that is a reason to believe he has one!

You're welcome, @Jasper.

So now I'm totally confused about BD. Doesn't appear on the math genealogy page, either, so no math Ph.D.

orly

-_-

Oh, we have the (probably) three next moderators in the chat right now.

Eh. Seems like he ain't.

That was my point earlier, @Studentmath :P

I'm not sure. I don't think I made many friends today at meta.

google.de/…

@JyrkiLahtonen Dude it's all reps anyway I'm 90% sure you've got this

BD is the guy that always rants about uniqueness theorems being a powerful tool for proving equalities

he's a total nutcase

@Ted Oh, just read :P

well, often uniqueness is a powerful tool in proofs ...

BD's math is quite ok IMO. His site-political views do get to me :-/

And I don't believe I'm a nutcase -- yet.

Bill uses deep results to solve elementary problems.

@JyrkiLahtonen I like his font

@Jyrki I'm quite sure you are on the safe side. I don't think anyone with opinion on something has too many friends anywhere.

Bill likes to use HTML instead of LaTeX.

LOL, Alexandre!

@TedShifrin Yes...but Ted: if i search "ted shrifrin uniqueness powerful tools equalities" i won't get 3 pages of you saying that over and over

Perhaps Bill was in AI at MIT many years ago. I find an email address of his from ages ago that is .ai.mit.edu ...

i say BD is a bot

LOL, no, but if you ask my students about the definition of projection of a vector on a subspace, they should stress unique :P

heh. talking about MK

now who's MK?

@AlexanderGruber what's MK?

how long would he be suspended.

@JyrkiLahtonen I will say nothing good or bad about his math, as I have never gotten anything out of it either way. His site politics grate, but he is such an absolutely abhorrent person to speak to or read comments of at any length. If you have opinions, you should write them so they don't piss everyone around you off.

♫ never mind ♫

Took me a while to figure out MK. Mikko Korhonen's id used to be m.k.

@BalarkaSen is he the lord voldemort of MSE?

@Alexander I loled.

@iwriteonbananas hahaha

never hoyd of such a person

That's fine, @Ted.

@MikeMiller I think Bill was quite nice to me in his comments.

well, you grovel at his feet, @Jasper ...

lol

You don't participate in meta.

@TedShifrin I worship nobody, except John Lee. Note we share the same initials.

I would prefer that my above message was not starred.

Thank you.

you have friends in high places ;-)

@JasperLoy i love his "introductino to topological manifolds"

@iwriteonbananas Besides his 3 books on manifolds, he also wrote 1 on geometry for high school. It's listed on amazon, I think.

@JasperLoy 100 gunmen from the wild west stands in a circle. Everyone starts shooting the person to the right. 1 shoots 2, 3 shoots 4 and so forth. Who wins, and how many shots has this person shot?

Who's the quickest draw?

wouldn't 2 shoot 3 too?

@BalarkaSen Nah he is ded. So ded

@JasperLoy Hi

They take turns, and 1 goes first?

oh ok

@JyrkiLahtonen Yeah

@user130018 Hello Bart.

Oh, that explains it, @Balarka. I only hid your posts, not put you on ignore.

don't, please, @Mike

OK, you win this time. I am a fickle man.

@N3buchadnezzar I don't know.

silently cheers

That doesn't seem very silent. ignores

Anyway @BalarkaSen don't be too concerned about people ignoring you. Let them ignore you all they want. That's the last time I would say this.

I am concerned about @Mike or @Ted ignoring me.

@BalarkaSen gives Balarka sen many noisy party props and instruments

Perhaps he's ignoring your suggestions, @Jasper.

A wild vuvuzela appears

A who? @N3B

@N3buchadnezzar throws table at wild vuvuzela

You just have to speak very loudly, Balarka. Try $\mathfrak{mathfrak}$.

Are those gunmen rational? Say, if there were only three of them standing. Whoever has the next shot should intentionally miss so that his target can take out the third guy, and then he can take out the remaining guy with his next shot.

You know, life works in strange ways. Sometimes, one small thing can lead to a big difference. It's the butterfly effect.

Clearly not, @Jyrki, or they never would have signed up for this whole mess.

@Chris'ssis I'm clueless, no idea. Maybe I should stop trying to solve your integral problems

@TedShifrin vuvuzela

@Ted Now my students can see their grade on the final, but not their final grade. Maybe it'll all get submitted soon and I can finally see evals.

@JyrkiLahtonen No

@MikeMiller: Are you referring to the gunfight or mod elections :-)

What's the difference?

@JyrkiLahtonen That would be a great way to have a mod election.

@N3buchadnezzar 1 shoots 2, 3 shoots 4 and when 4 shoots 5, 1 simultaneously shoots 3?

Wild mod battle of history

LOL

Gee, thanks a lot, @N3B.

6 is hiding behind a tree, ready to shoot whoever's left. He also brought a bulletproof vest and a machine gun.

@BalarkaSen Say there are 6. 1 shoots 2, 3 shoots 4. 5 shoots 6. Then 1 shoots 3..

(I do not endorse 6's actions.)

no i don't think so.

6 would shoot 1

so 1 would never get to shoot

6 is dead, @Balarka.

@MikeMiller So ded

ok, n must be larger than 6

The evens always die. Poor bastards.

@BalarkaSen Say 5 persons. 1 shoots 2, 3 shoots 4. Then 5 shoots 1. 3 shoots 5. 3 aka Alex Gruber lives to see another mod battle.

@N3buchadnezzar 1 is shot twice?

assuming 6 is hiding @N3buchadnezzar

hi @teadawg

Hello @Ted :D

@teadawg1337 Once

@BalarkaSen That bloody machine gun. It puts a hole in my bulletproof plan.

ok, i think i should go and sleep

Get outta here.

and count wild gunmen from west

You feeling better, @teadawg?

later pal

@MikeMiller you so mean

@BalarkaSen I was thinking about generlizing the duel. Here they stand on a line. What about a sphere. Or even worse an n-dimensional wild west problem?

@Ted Slightly, I think the antibiotics are finally starting to kick in

@N3buchadnezzar it'd be a mess

don't do it

To if they had horses as well, @N3b?

The beasties have become quite resistant to antibiotics :(

@Teadawg, I believe I sent you the revised exam. Right?

@BalarkaSen It'll be a wild wild west.

ok, i'm really outta here

@TedShifrin Mhm

bubye @Balarka

oops

:P

:P

I am struggling with a discrete probability question. Given a finite set of size P, what is the probability that N random Q-subsets (uniformly drawn) will be disjoint?

I wasn't looking.

lol

Have you tried writing it down with specific numbers first, @A.E?

I'm not saying goodbye again, @Balarka.

He's just so happy that you un-ignored him, thank you Professor @TedShifrin

ha ha @skull

'tis the season :D

@TedShifrin, I looked at simple cases like where N = 2, but I am struggling with N > 2. I know I need to apply inclusion-exclusion somehow, but I am not sure how

I don't think you need inclusion-exclusion for this, @A.E.

Hm.

If I pick disjoint pairs, I start with $P$, choose $2$; then choose $2$ from among $P-2$, then choose $2$ from among $P-4$, etc. What's the total number of ways I might choose 3 such pairs, allowing replacement (which means they needn't be disjoint)?

I should clarify: I don't mean mutually disjoint

I meant to say

HUH?

That is the same as mutually disjoint, isn't it?

Oh, no, you mean that no element is in every Q-subset?

No, the intersection of {1, 2, 3} and {1, 3, 4} and {5, 6, 7} is empty

Yes

OK, so I would recommend counting the complement.

BTW, we should page @studentmath. He loves this stuff :P

Right, so I want to count the probability of some element appearing in every subset.

Right.

But you will of course not be upset if several happen to appear in every subset.

Right.

Ohh probability

But yeah Ted gave the best hint I could think of already

hands the baton to @Studentmath