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00:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

00:12
13 hours ago, by blue
user image
13 hours ago, by blue
But $x_s,x_n\in{\frak gl(g)}$ and $\varrho$'s domain is $\frak g$, not $\frak gl(g)$, so how do $\varrho(x_s),\varrho(x_n)$ even make sense?
01:05
Is anyone familiar with what problems are in the book "Tomorrow's Math: Unsolved Problems for the Amateur"? Are many of the problems still unsolved?
01:37
Hello @TedShifrin.
Hi @Jasper
@TedShifrin I heard Pedro wanted to get Spivak's 5 books and recommended him amazon.com.
I don't necessarily recommend that , as I said.
@TedShifrin yo Ted, any thoughts on ^ ? :-)
he doesn't reply :O
@blue I am here but I can't help you. Has school started?
01:50
nope, couple weeks till
We start Monday. There's an obvious induced representation, $\text{ad}\rho$, right, @blue?
@TedShifrin I thought ad turned representations of lie groups into representations of lie algebras.
this is from page 6 of this btw
That's Ad usually :)
oh. so what's ad again?
lie bracket as a linear map on $\frak g$.
01:57
oh jeez it's back on page 3
but ad:g->gl(g) no?
Yes. Remember, he's decomposing ad$(x)$
Hi professor @Ted Shifrin
Hi @skull
@TedShifrin which of the following are incorrect: (i) $x_s\in \frak gl(g)$ and $x_n\in \frak gl(g)$, (ii) the domain of $\varrho$ is $\frak g$, (iii) $\varrho(x)$ only makes sense if $x$ is in the domain of $\varrho$
I'm saying everyone abuses notation and writes $\rho$ for various other induced representations coming therefrom.
02:05
well ${\rm ad}\rho(x_s)$ and ${\rm ad}\rho(x_n)$ don't make sense either, because they're elements of $gl(gl(V))$, while the text says $\varrho(x_s)$, $\varrho(x_n)$ are in $gl(V)$. why don't you just set me straight and tell me what $\varrho(x_s)$ and $\varrho(x_n)$ are? :)
I'm not withholding information to be evil.
So what does $\rho(\text{ad}(x))$ mean?
(Pedantically, this is $\text{ad}(\rho)$, I suppose.)
well ${\rm ad}(x_n)$ and ${\rm ad}(x_s)$ are in $gl(gl(g))$, which is even further from the domain of $\varrho$ (namely $g$) than $gl(V)\ni x_n,x_s$ is.
$\text{ad}(x)(y) = [x,y]$, and $\rho([x,y]) = [\rho(x),\rho(y)]$.
no, no, no extra ad there!!
you asked me what $\rho(ad(x))$ meant...
So, from what I wrote, we should have $\rho(\text{ad}(x)) = \text{ad}(\rho(x))\in {\frak gl}(V)$.
And you split that into its semisimple and nilpotent parts ...
02:11
if $x\in\frak g$ then $\rho(g)\in {\frak gl}(V)$ then ${\rm ad}(\rho(x))\in{\frak gl}({\frak gl}(V))$ no?
because ${\rm ad}:{\frak gl}(V)\to{\frak gl}({\frak gl}(V))$
I don't think so.
oh, I see
in order for ${\rm ad}(\rho(x))$ to make sense, ${\rm ad}$ needs to be able to take in $\rho(x)$ as an argument, which means the domain of ${\rm ad}$ must be ${\frak gl}(V)$. and $\rm ad$ takes a lie algebra to its own general lie algebra, so ${\rm ad}:{\frak gl}(V)\to{\frak gl}({\frak gl}(V))$
brb
No, @skull ... I'm too busy being confused by @anon.
@skullpatrol Haha, why are you asking him?
He is wise.
02:15
But what are you asking for? This is a non-issue.
It bothers me
If it bothers you, you should talk to a mod about it, not Ted.
I don't trust most of them
They are the only ones who can do anything. You can ask our Eng mods if you want.
Matt & robjohn are the only two
02:20
You can ask Matt then, since it probably happened in the Eng room.
He's not there now
You can even ask a question on meta.
But Ted has nothing to do with this.
Hey @anon, welcome back.
I've had enough of this "network"
Then quit. Delete your account like me.
perhaps I may pal :)
02:23
@Jasper: Your deletions/readditions are getting close to $\aleph_1$ :P
@TedShifrin I am trying to keep my current account for life.
ha ha :)
no more preemptive threats and disappearances?
Hopefully not. I kept deleting email accounts too.
02:26
@blue: I haven't thought about representation theory in a while, but I think this is just notation, and you should be reading a more thorough exposition. So, I believe $\rho(\text{ad}(x))\in{\frak gl}(V)$ is the linear map given by $\rho(\text{ad}(x))v = \text{ad}(\rho(x))(v) = [\rho(x),v]$.
This is an announcement. My email is now jasperloy at outlook dot com. I hope to keep this email account for life.
well, @Jasper, if you ever email me, I'll have your address then :)
Pardon my interruption Professor.
no problem, @skull ...
When you interrupt me for a math question, I'll deal with that.
@TedShifrin what does $\rho(x)v-v\rho(x)$ mean for a linear transformation $\rho(x)\in{\frak gl}(V)$ and a vector $v\in V$?
02:28
It's confusing when both anon and blue are here.
Crap.
No, no, $\rho(x)$ is an element of $V$. Don't confuzle me!
What I wrote makes sense as a definition.
but $\rho:{\frak g}\to{\frak gl}(V)$ was defined to be a lie algebra representation from the beginning ...
:confus:
LOL, @Pedro's "confus" is spreading.
he got it from me, who got it from the 4chan meme
Yeah, you got me.
I get "confus" from French.
02:30
heh
Haven't seen the French guys in ages ...
speak of the tamaroff
Ah, the deus ex machina appears. I figured you'd gone to Philadelphia, @Pedro.
@blue I was going to say that.
02:31
Hello my dear @PedroTamaroff, did you get my messages in chat?
You're right, @blue. It's a mess. Find a better book to read.
I ought to be able to sort it out, but not tonight.
@TedShifrin I didn't. Actually went to play tennis and then to drink and eat.
Philadelphia is too far away...
I take it you're better, @Pedro.
@JasperLoy Yes.
It's not far at all ... It's like a bit more than an hour.
02:32
@TedShifrin By car, I guess. But my sister has two children.
Steal her car :P
@blue Now I'm doubting if I got it from
that's where I got it from
and posted it
charlie called it cute
or maybe it was gigili
I never post any cat pics.
I wonder where gigili is.
02:33
I don't even know whom you're talking about.
She's still around
You're too chat-young.
Hehehehe
Maybe I should retire from chat as well ...
I am still around too, lol.
@TedShifrin Sounds like me.
My department head asked me today when I was submitting my letter of resignation/retirement :P
02:35
@TedShifrin What did he ask?
@TedShifrin Do another ten years of work.
what I just said, @Pedro :)
Enjoy life
@blue I can still group theory!
@anon: I suppose one way out of this is to think of $\frak gl(g) = \frak g^*\otimes\frak g$ and use the tensor product of the two representations. But then we don't end up in ${\frak gl}(V)$. GRR.
@Pedro: You didn't done answer me. You feeling better?
02:41
@TedShifrin Oh, yes. I still have a runny nose, though.
Well, I'm sure you ran faster.
@TedShifrin The court was very similar to the one in GA. I couldn't drift.
but surely someone gave you a good challenge, for a change :)
@TedShifrin I played with my brother in law. I actually lost. =D
@blue: The standard beginning text on Lie Algebras and Representations is Jim Humphreys' ... try reading it.
02:44
I was 4-2 and I lost 4-6.
Sorry I dragged you down, @Pedro :(
I'll try not to do that in math for a year.
@TedShifrin Don't be silly! =P
03:04
@PedroTamaroff group actions should be in every text on group theory
@PedroTamaroff Still in NJ?
03:24
@robjohn I am still in SG, lol.
I am now considering changing my reading list to all the Lang books...
If only Lang were still alive, I would ask him to write a book on algebraic topology, since that seems missing from his list of topics.
@robjohn Is it important to learn about topological vector spaces in functional analysis, or are Banach and Hilbert spaces sufficient?
03:43
@JasperLoy It depends on where you want to go with it. I think you can get a good number of examples of the ideas to be used with Banach and Hilbert spaces.
@JasperLoy Never got your mail about your mischief.
 
1 hour later…
04:52
Morning
05:08
Hi
05:28
hi
05:39
hello
06:26
Hey!
07:09
Hi @Chris'ssis!
Greetings :-)
 
2 hours later…
09:22
I did not buy Apostol's calculus books in the end, too bloody expensive.
09:35
who the heck starred skullpa-troll?
Not me, why?
I have mostly been getting 1 vote per answer, sigh...
10:00
Morning people!
10:14
Here is a funny question I received this morning.
I was told it was given on the international olympiad for students, but it's elementary as I can see.
It's worth giving it a try. Just for fun.
certainly $\alpha$ must be unique, if it exists
in which case $\beta$ is too
(well, $\alpha$ is unique if we don't count $\beta=0$ for large enough $\alpha$)
a good starting point would be to set $n=1+2+\cdots+m$ for some $m$
in order to simplify $\sum_{k=1}^n a_k$
Right.
10:30
so $\sum_{k=1}^n a_k$ looks like $\sum_{i=1}^m i(i+1)/2$ which is $\sim m^3/6$ (don't need to work out the lower order terms), whereas $n^\alpha\sim m^{2\alpha}/2^\alpha$. hence $\alpha=3/2$ and $\beta=2^{3/2}/6$. (we'd need to show the limit does indeed exist with some bounding arguments, but that's bookkeeping)
there we go
$\beta=\sqrt{2}/3$
@Chris'ssis That's what he wrote.
Hello @TedShifrin
@BalarkaSen I don't get your point. I put things in a simplified form. (Do you even read what I write here?)
@Chris'ssis $2^{3/2}/6 = \sqrt{2}/3$
Lang's Real and Functional Analysis does integration of Banach-valued functions, crazy.
10:35
@BalarkaSen You don't need to show me this as if I didn't knew it.
His Fundamentals of Differential Geometry uses Banach manifolds, also crazy.
@Chris'ssis I naturally ask people to define "simplified" but ok. I thought you didn't notice the equivalence.
@BalarkaSen What are you studying these days?
@blue Ever thought about the Riemannsurface $w = j(z)$?
@JasperLoy Commutative algebra.
@BalarkaSen Which book?
10:37
Atiyah-McDonald
@blue Nicely done. I was surprised how easy it was (it's an international olympiad though).
@Chris'ssis Yeah, naturally you don't see such easy problems in olympiad.
especially IMO
I can never do IMO questions. Does it mean I should not do research math?
@BalarkaSen The problem is that "easy" may be interpreted depeding on the persons you are referring at. I also think that my experience plays an important part here. I probably say "easy" to many problems that are considered pretty hard by others.
@JasperLoy IMO problems are not research math
@Chris'ssis Haha, indeed.
10:43
@Chris'ssis You are a genius, so most things are easy, lol.
But I have done a bit asymptotics so it wasn't that hard either
@JasperLoy No, I'm not. I wish I was one though. :-)
Well, I accept myself the way I am. :D
Heyo @Alizter
I've got a problem for you.
Hey @BalarkaSen
What is a problem you have?
@Alizter Construct a galois extension $K/\Bbb {Q}$ which is totally real and has galois group $\Bbb Z_3$
10:52
I am thinking maybe splitting field of $\Phi_4$? wait noo
ignore that
@BalarkaSen I have a whole plane journey to think about that. I will get back to you.
you understand what i mean by totally real, no?
@Alizter OK
I can't believe you youngsters have studied so much math.
@BalarkaSen Yes. Only elements from $\Bbb R$
@Alizter are adjoined.
I was looking at V S Sunder's website, impressive publication list.
10:55
equivalently, adjoining one of the roots of the corresponding polynomial gives the whole extension back @Alizter
unlike $\Bbb Q(\sqrt[3]{2}, i)$
@BalarkaSen Yes. I will have a think about that
11:15
Ive gotta run bye
 
2 hours later…
12:52
@robjohn it looks like you're too silent these days ... :-)
13:08
@Chris'ssis Do you know of anything like integrating continued fraction expansions?
Could anyone here explain about the answer posted by Joriki here: math.stackexchange.com/a/325151/123277? I think the integral is 'incorrect'.
@BalarkaSen that's crazy talk
@blue i know i am being vague
just a thought. nevermind
I wasn't calling it vague, I was calling it wild.
?
what's that supposed to mean?
13:13
@Tunk-Fey I suspect you're right, as $\displaystyle\int_0^\pi \phi^{n-2}d\phi=\frac{\pi^{n-1}}{\color{Red}{n-1}}$ (p.s. you need the LaTeX in chat bookmark linked on the starboard to see latex in chat)
(haven't even looked at the rest of the problem)
@BalarkaSen I saw some paper in the past, but I didn't attend the integration of the continued fraction expansions, not yet.
@BalarkaSen wild means, well, wild
user image
2
like those things
@blue His answer seems promising but there's something missing there.
@Chris'ssis OK, let me know if you find something/stumble upon any relevant paper.
@BalarkaSen OK
13:25
Thanks in advanced.
@blue Can you help me with a (elementary, nevertheless hard) problem?
It's an olympiad problem I guess, but I am taking a nontrivial cool-boy approach.
@BalarkaSen maybe, maybe not
won't know till I see it
wait a sec i am doing some typing in another forum. crank handling.
OK, here goes. are you with me @blue?
The problem is to prove that if $xy$ divides $x^2 + y^2 + 1$ then $\cfrac{x^2 + y^2 + 1}{xy} = 3$. This looks very similar to the other problem about $\cfrac{x^2+y^2}{1+xy}$ which is done by boring methods like Vieta jumping and inequalities so I suspected that it's from Olympiad. My approach was somewhat like this
Let $\cfrac{x^2 + y^2 + 1}{xy} = k$. Then $x^2 + y^2 + 1 = kxy$ which is $x^2 - (ky)x + (y^2 + 1) = 0$ after rearranging. The disc of this polynomial is $(k^2-4)y^2 - 4$ which we require to be a square.
Thus one arrives at a Pell-like equation $m^2 - (k^2 - 4)n^2 = - 4$. A little modular arithmetic confirms that $k$ is one of $\pm\{1 , 3\}$ modulo $8$ but that's all I have found right now.
Any idea about what now?
13:52
interesting, not sure
I like the approach better than jumping
@blue bows
If nothing, I can ask interesting questions and develop interesting (although mostly incomplete) approaches to generally boring problems.
I am thinking about finite projective planes.
Given a projective plane (P,L) we can form an equivalence relation on (P choose 2) as {a,b}~{c,d} if the line incident with a,b equals the line incident with c,d. We can identify lines in L with equivalence classes in (P choose 2). In this way, we can think of line sets as partitions of (P choose 2). I'm wondering what conditions we need on such a partition to guarantee it's a valid line set.
i'd have to toss a coin. no idea.
14:31
Hey @AntonioVargas
15:09
@BalarkaSen yo. How's it going?
Good, good. Haven't seen you here lately.
I've been working on some other things, or at least trying to
There are a couple of projects I want to make some progress on before the semester starts
I'm still addicted to this site though...
2
Haha, everyone is. That's what MSE does to you.
3
15:39
@robjohn Am I being stooopid not to realize the convergence of this?
@BalarkaSen take the log and it is pretty easy
$\frac12\log(2)+\frac14\log(3)+\frac18\log(4)+\dots$
Ah, right.
15:51
@BalarkaSen It comes to approximately 2.7612068419574980332
Yes.
I just did it with PARI.
@BalarkaSen It would be the square of that number
@robjohn potato-pohtato. it's not possible that one is transcendental but the other is not =)
@BalarkaSen sure... one is transcendental if the other is
@BalarkaSen is anything known of the transcendentality?
not that I know of. OEIS mentions nothing.
The exponential nature makes me think that it is transcendental.
16:01
@Chris'ssis sorry, things are hectic.
16:20
@robjohn OK
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis is the answer to that limit of integral problem $\frac{\log 2}{2}$ ? :-) its just Cesaro-Stolz right ? :)
@r9m Yes. :-) Do you have a solution? :D
@r9m Yeap! :D
r9m
r9m
:D
@r9m Good job!
@r9m btw, what do you think about problem $1.7.$ from Ovi's book? Do you see a brilliant solution there? :D
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis okay .. lemme check ..
16:24
@r9m I have a very nice proof there (btw, that book is a blessing). :D
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis wait ,, gimmie some time .. I wanna try it too :)
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis problem 1.41 in the book is identical :}
@Chris'ssis Hey Chris, what book are you referring to? :)
@r9m "Limits, Series, and Fractional Part Integrals: Problems in Mathematical Analysis" by Ovidiu Furdui, a great book. :-)
r9m
r9m
16:33
@Chris'ssis Ovi's book ... it gives me nightmares :P
@r9m What gives you nightmares? :-)
@Chris'ssis Thanks a lot! Are there also problems in there for undergraduate students?
@rehband Sure. You have a preview on that link.
@Chris'ssis Awesome, I'll check it out
@rehband It's the best book I've ever seen. Any student should have it. :-)
16:36
@Chris'ssis That's a strong statement! :) I love your responses on MSE and I really want to develop similar abilities. This book may be just the right thing
@r9m This world needs such books. I'm glad it exists.
@rehband My answers on MSE are usually poor, just less explained, not detailed as it should be. My real proofs look totally different. :-)
@rehband Indeed. I agree with that.
@Chris'ssis This has its upsides as well. Makes you work to understand the answer :) I'll try to get that book from my university library tomorrow
@rehband I hope to be able to publish such a book too ... (it's not easy at all, and it requires an insane amount of work)
@Chris'ssis Wow awesome, I'd love to see that happen :D Are you from the USA?
@rehband No. I'm from Romania.
@r9m But just think about it: how about a solution without using Stolz theorem? :D
r9m
r9m
16:47
@Chris'ssis :o how ? .. I mean it can be done .. but won't be woporpap :| .. do you have a idea of doing it woporpap without using stolz thm ?
@Chris'ssis Awesome. I need to leave now, hope u have a great day (and I hope u post on MSE forever) hehe
@rehband :D The same to you!
@r9m Yeah, sure. :-)
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis how ?!!! :D
@r9m By a very clever trick. I'll show you when I put things on paper. :-)
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis okay .. :D
16:52
(in case you don't wanna think of it for some more time)
r9m
r9m
17:07
okay .. done with squeezing thm .. :)
@BalarkaSen I had a think about it but I could not find a totally real one
17:30
@r9m did you do it? :-)
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis ya ,, used the substitution $y = x^{1/(n+1)}$ and squeezed it , but the calc is long and boring :|
@r9m Nice. :-)
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis oh ! okay okay :-) sorry to make you repeat .. :)
@r9m I'll show you when I put things on paper. :-)
@r9m It's nice to have multiple solutions to each problem.
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis Indeed .. the more the merrier :D
17:37
@r9m :D
17:47
@r9m Would it make sense to approximate the inner sum by an integral?
(better say, using Euler–Maclaurin formula)
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis sure ,., done that way too :-)
@r9m :-) We need to break all the limits of any kind.
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis problem 1.7 has no hints :(
@r9m Take a look here ...
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis got it :)
18:01
@r9m I hope you like it. :-)
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis WoW !! that was smooth !! :D
@blue @anon: OK, I've done a bit of research for you. So, given $x\in\frak g$, there are $x_s,x_n\in\frak g$ so that $\rho(x_s)$ is the semisimple part of $\rho(x)$, and correspondingly for $x_n$.
By the way, Fulton/Harris make a big deal of saying $\frak g$ has to be semisimple. So the key point is that when $\frak g$ is semisimple, $\text{ad}:\frak g\to\frak gl(g)$ gives an embedding. So we take the Jordan decomposition of $\text{ad}(x)$ and these elements come back to unique elements of $\frak g$.
@r9m Thanks! :D
P.S. @blue @anon: I highly recommend Fulton/Harris's Representation Theory: A First Course. These guys are among the best expositors of algebra/algebraic geometry.
18:17
@r9m I wonder if we might come up with another brilliant proof ... (I'm inclined to say "yes") :-)
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis okay .. :)
bbl
Thank you Professor @TedShifrin we appreciate your recommendations :)
Hi, @Ted. How's things?
Oh, he's gone again. Well.
Thanks pal @DanielFischer :-)
heya @DanielF ... I dropped by to correct my stupidity with @blue last night.
@skull: You don't need to thank me when it's not for you :P
18:31
@TedShifrin Stupidity as in "made a mistake" or as in "didn't know the answer"?
We crank up for classes on Monday, @DanielF, so I'm dealing with last-minute emergencies. Classes are more or less ready to go.
Yes @DanielF.
Never ask a mathematician an "or" question ;)
He was quoting a poorly written source on representation theory which didn't explain things and, to make things worse, seems to have omitted a necessary hypothesis. But I couldn't explain off the top of my head and only made things worse. Of course, why blue would ask me a question about algebra is beyond me ...
In fact, @DanielF, the answer is yes, both.
18:50
Hi all
Would I be right in stating that say $V$ is a normed space, with subset $W$.
Let wcl$(W)$ be the weak closure of $W$ in $V$, then if we take $x$ in wcl$(W)$ it follows that
there exists a net $(x_{i})_{i}$ which converges weakly to $x$ in $V$. So this result states that at least one such directed set exists so as to define a net which converges weakly?
@JohnDoe You mean a net in $W$, presumably. Yes, in every topological space, the closure of a set $A$ is precisely the set of points such that some net in $A$ converges to that point.
Yes a net in $W$. So this differs with sequences since in sequences you know that the directed set in the set of natural numbers here you can't say exactly what the directed set is?
@DanielFischer
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