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20:00
@N3buchadnezzar N3bentypus.
@n3 I don't think it's useful here
@BalarkaSen Bye.
Tomfoolery.
I gotta go now.
@G.T.R Okay so $G(x)=e^x P(x)$ and $P(x)$ will have the same number of roots, which all are real.
20:02
@skullpatrol Hello, buddy.
@ParthKohli Hi pal :D
@skull He was eaten by Jerry long ago.
@skullpatrol Are you watching football?
Arghhh...futball.
@ParthKohli Yep
20:04
@skullpatrol Great! Ochoa is doing well.
Ochoa?
@ParthKohli It is one of the most elegant games...
@skullpatrol Noo!
...to watch.
This is about to drive me away from this site. Seriously furious.
10
20:05
@Sawarnik Did you watch India vs. Bangladesh earlier today?
@TedShifrin You can't please all of the people all of the time.
@TedShifrin -_- we see those everywhere
@ParthKohli Yes, is was a very bizzare match really!
@ParthKohli Watching Brasucks versus Mehiho now
That 6 for 4 blows my mind whenever I hear it.
20:07
@N3buchadnezzar lol.
@ParthKohli You know what?
It's rare for someone to say it's a test question and please not to do it. I'm fed up with this refusal to read what the OP said honestly.
@N3buchadnezzar Yes?
Totally bizarre the way the US beat Ghana ... not that I paid much attention ...
Spain vs Netherlands <3 !
20:08
I ll keep quiet until futball is out of here.
@Sawarnik Football football football football football football football football football.
21 secs ago, by Parth Kohli
@Sawarnik Football football football football football football football football football.
19 secs ago, by skullpatrol
21 secs ago, by Parth Kohli
@Sawarnik Football football football football football football football football football.
I'm glad all the people starring my sentence agree with me ... Time for me to retire.
20:10
@Sawarnik once every 4 year come on
@TedShifrin you sound like Jasper
5
@TedShifrin -_-
is that how you want to be remembered?
pardon my frankness
@skull: I am seriously very upset.
Over imaginary internet points?
20:12
5 mins ago, by skullpatrol
@TedShifrin You can't please all of the people all of the time.
@TedShifrin: indeed, that answer is not at all in the spirit of what MSE is about...
No, flagrant disregard of academic honesty is much more serious than that.
I get it that the OP is frustrated by his teacher, but he shouldn't be posting in the first place. Given that he put red flags all over it and said what he said, I'm pissed off that someone with 100+K has to be such a stubborn child.
And there are enough people with 100+K who agree with him that it's pointless for me to raise a stink on meta.
That makes me even more upset.
</rant>
"academic" honesty is only truly applicable in university
I disagree. It's all through our field.
@TedShifrin this is the internet
20:14
@skullpatrol What about respect for other human beings?
@ted his answer is not even on topic actually
His profile says he is training to be a teacher. If we cannot expect our teachers to be honest, then that is a serious problem.
Yeah, @GTR, it is the solution of the problem.
Oh this is the internet, we should lose all our humanity and dencency and act like animals ._.
Whose profile, @AWerth?
20:15
@N3buchadnezzar that is a choice
@TedShifrin: the person who posted the question.
@skull, it makes me sad that someone (presumably) so young as you is so cynical.
@AWerth: I'm mad at DonAntonio, not at the kid who asked the question.
@TedShifrin times are changing...
F*** you, @skull.
3
20:16
waits to be banned
ban me first pal
Cynical acceptance of horrid behavior is not encouraging ...
@TedShifrin: sorry for the confusion. I am as well. I was merely agreeing that I don't think this was an appropriate situation to have posted a question.
@skullpatrol Respect for others should not be a choice.
The answer has -3 score now, the voting system here does some work :)
20:17
Chat powerz
@N3buchadnezzar "should" means NOTHING in the real world
Yeah, @AWerth, I am amazed that anyone gives a takehome exam in this day and age. I realized 5 years ago I couldn't do that anymore.
Hmm, I do not understand the cause of this argument here.
It is my fault
as usual
I've even posted in my syllabus for Probability in the fall that I'm aware that there are solutions to the textbook available on-line. I'm not going to even try to police it.
@Sawarnik: I presume the downvotes are because of my ranting here ... and nothing else.
@AWertheim: Give my regards to Robert Bryant :) (I won't list all the people I know at Duke.... :) )
20:19
You make a very good point, but look where we are!
@ParthKohli Did you watch the Ind vs Ban match?
I don't understand: is anyone here disagreeing with Professor Shifrin?
@Sawarnik Yes, the whole thing.
Me
1 min ago, by skullpatrol
You make a very good point, but look where we are!
@ParthKohli Everyone is ranting .. nothing else.
@ParthKohli I don't think anyone is except @skullpatrol
20:20
@ParthKohli We should have sent our U-19 team next! Isn't it? :D
I also don't think it should have anything to do with my being a professor ... Most of the students I've gotten to know in this chat are very serious and honest folks.
@skullpatrol Oh, so do you think that the person who posted the answer has done nothing wrong?
I think @skull enjoys/thrives on being flip ...
@TedShifrin: I'd love to, but I'm afraid I just recently graduated and never got the pleasure of knowing Dr. Bryant. I very much wanted to take his differential geometry course but had a schedule conflict :(
Ahhhh ... what a shame. He's fantastic.
20:22
There is no "right" and "wrong" in the jungle.
Of course, he was at Berkeley for most of your career, so it's not your fault :P
Where are you off to next, @AWertheim?
The internet is a jungle
That^ is my point
@skull: You sound like a politician, condoning all indecency.
@TedShifrin: going to work as a software developer for a year, then hopefully onto math graduate school! :)
It is what it is.
20:23
very cool, @AWertheim: What field(s) of math interest you most?
@Chris'ssis Corn fields :D
@skullpatrol Do you understand all rules of soccer?
@ParthKohli yes
The fast-pace of the sport makes it difficult to watch.
Go and die skull, I believe in the good of men.
3
20:25
No futball here. Its a math chat!
@TedShifrin: haha, well, it is hard to say, since I have so much yet to learn. I am most interested (at the moment, at least) in algebraic number theory and algebraic geometry.
@Sawarnik says the one talking about mangos :P
@ParthKohli At this level yes.
@Sawarnik Or was it to introduce mango topology and mango integrals ? :D
@Hippalectryon What does that mean? :-)
20:26
@Hippalectryon Mango topology of course!
I wrote my senior thesis on complex multiplication, which I found very beautiful, so that has been a source of interest. But of course, I've been warned by wise folks not to marry myself to one research area before grad school.
@N3buchadnezzar :(
@Chris'ssis What part ?
Well, @AWertheim, all power to you. I've been on the complex differential geometry side of algebraic geometry :)
@Hippalectryon Mango integrals :O
20:27
People have a conscience which does not disappear when going "online". Being anonymous is not and never will be the same as "acting as a douche" and does not justify it in any way.
@Hippalectryon "Corn fields"? ;)
Haha!
@TedShifrin @N3buchadnezzar I apologize if I have offended you in any way, but that is my opinion.
You haven't offended me. You've just increased my frustration and ire.
@Sawarnik $\int_{\text{mangoSpace}}\frac{ln(sin(\text{mango}))}{\text{mango}}\text{d(mango‌​)}$
@Chris'ssis Just another lame pun :D
20:29
hehehe :D
Greetings
@skullpatrol Hello! How are you doing? :-)
:D
@Chris'ssis Fine thanks, how are you?
@skullpatrol Thanks, I put down some titans. :-)
@Chris'ssis I saw :-O
20:30
@TedShifrin: thanks for the kind words! It seems like you do work in a very beautiful area of mathematics. :)
Well, I quit research a while ago, @AWertheim, but I still have mathematical taste. :P
@TedShifrin How long ago?
@Chris'ssis Where do you even store all the corpses ?
@Sawarnik It's not true what you suggested yesterday. I can live with anyone in chat, and I don't expect someone to leave the chat. When things get worse, it's up to me to leave the chat (and return later).
But Bryant is a superstar and fabulous teacher and it's a pity you missed out on the opportunity to take a course from him. (I've known him for close to 40 years. Yikes.) @AWertheim
20:32
@Chris'ssis No it was not a suggestion. Just a reply to Balarka's comment.
OK
@Hippalectryon :-))) Good question!
Does anyone know if there is a result which states that if an uncountable family of sets has the finite intersection property then the intersection of all members of the family is non-empty?
@TedShifrin: I've heard! One of my good friends at Duke is a graduate student who is studying differential geometry. He took Dr. Bryant's course and had nothing but great things to say! (I was given a similar recommendation by another one of my professors, who said I should take his course if at all possible).
There's no requirement of countability for the finite intersection property, @Alex, is there?
Well, in your next life you'll have a new set of great people to study with, @AWertheim :)
@TedShifrin Recall the MathStackExchange.SE T-shirt that people commented on as being the place where students go to cheat? I posted that answer on Meta and got very little support, no?
20:39
@skullpatrol T-Shirt ?
@Ted what do you mean? I have only learnt about the f.i.p property in the last 15 minutes, so I am working with the definition that a family of sets has the f.i.p property if the intersection over any finite subcollection of the family is nonempty. What I want to know is if the family has uncountably infinite cardinality then can we conclude that the intersection of all uncountable members is non-empty?
@Hippalectryon There is a MathStackExchange.SE T-shirt now.
@TedShifrin: I'm certainly looking forward to it :)
@Alex: So there's a theorem that says that a topological space $X$ is compact if and only if any collection $\mathscr C$ of closed sets has the finite intersection property (i.e., any finite subset has nonempty intersection), then the intersection $\bigcap_{C\in\mathscr C} C$ is nonempty.
This theorem holds for any collection ... no countability hypothesis.
20:48
@Ted Oh okay great thanks.
Sure, @Alex :)
21:18
@TedShifrin Did you know that Mhenni has a book?
@AWertheim I have only started to learn theory of CM.
Seems wonderful.
@Alizter What sort of book?
21:32
@DanielFischer It is on fractional calculus. I accidently found out when researching.
The problem is It looks interesting and relevant to my needs... but I don't really want to give Mhenni any money.
Also @DanielFischer did you see the things! About the polynomials
@Alizter Yes, saw the messages when I returned from dinner. I haven't verified that the solution works, though.
But it looks as if it would.
@DanielFischer I saw a proof of it not working for the distinct factors case.
The argument is based on Newtonian interpolation
and shows a contradictory GCD or something like that
if polynomials had existed
@Alizter I don't really want to give Mhenni any money - what is that for lol
@Hippalectryon He has a way... with things...
21:37
@DanielFischer Here is a general view
@Alizter No, he has A related technique.
@DanielFischer i think it is a good argument no?
@Alizter You mean the AoPS solution? Or something with Mhenni?
@DanielFischer Forget Mhenni I was talking about AoPS solution! :P
@Alizter Looks convincing indeed.
21:43
@DanielFischer I am not sure I would of though of this however. Especially as this is from an olympiad...
@Alizter I would definitely not have thought of it in time to answer an olympiad problem.
I do like how our (mostly yours) intuition was correct :)
Hell, no, @Alizter ... I'm sure it's full of misinformation and errors, though.
@Chris'ssis Why do you always write your sums with $...$ instead of $\sum$?
@Chris'ssis If one considers that nice then yes.
21:48
@Hippa: How else do you say "and so on" "und so weiter" "et cetera"?
I missed something ...
@Hippalectryon @Chris'ssis is a chronic waster of pixel ink ;)
lol
@TedShifrin With infinite sums ?
@Alizter Yeah, that's it! :-)
sometimes, pedagogically speaking, it's better to see what the terms look like ...
21:49
Especially for telescoping!
last time he'll defend @Chris'sssis :D
@TedShifrin :D
@TedShifrin Even a zombie invasion?
Wow we've starred so many messages today
I don't like being so starry, @Hippa.
21:50
@Hippalectryon I've seen worse.
Il faut que les français aient des étoiles :P
@TedShifrin :)
I was about to say I had seen a lot of @PedroTamaroff 's posts starred at once before but seeing as he just joined and that blew my mind I am going to not say that.
plutôt, que vous en reçeviez plusieurs :P
I haven't seen mr @Pedro today
Hi @Pedro !
21:51
Hello there.
@TedShifrin We need to sort out our meeting!
@Hippalectryon @TedShifrin What I do is an art, and being so, it's also about beauty, and sometimes letting terms that way, aesthetically speaking, everything looks much nicer. ;)
2
@Pedro For a pair of groups $G$ and $G'$ if $\rm{Inn}(G) \cong \rm{Inn}(G')$ then is it true that $G$ and $G'$ always have the same class equation?
@Chris'ssis You should paint pictures but hide problems in the painting.
I was wondering that for a while and the only example of nonisomorphic groups with same class eqns I can find is $D_8$ and $Q_8$, @PedroTamaroff, but funny enough both of the inner aut groups are isomorphic to $V_4$.
@Pedro: At the moment, there is none. I doubt I'm venturing north after my 2 1/2 weeks in CA ... Sorry. :(
21:55
@TedShifrin Oh, noes. Snif.
LOL
Well, if you have the time to come southward, I'd be happy to help defray some expenses ... but I doubt I have the energy/time to go north.
@BalarkaSen Well, recall that ${\rm Inn}\, G\simeq G/Z(G)$.
At any rate, I would say the answer is no.
Me too, @Pedro. But can's find counterexamples off hand
For example, it suffices that $Z(G)$ and $Z(G')$ have different orders, if that is what you mean that the class equations coincide.
But if $Z(G)$ and $Z(G')$ have different orders, will the inner auto groups be iso?
21:57
I think it can be the case.
A problem a student asked me the first time I taught algebra was: If $G$ and $G'$ have the same number of elements of each order, must they be iso?
@TedShifrin I'd guess no.
Me too, @Balarka.
what was your answer Professor?
at the time
21:59
@skull: It's now a problem in my algebra book. Go do it :D
@TedShifrin There is an example of two groups that have the same lattice of subgroups but which are not isomorphic.
That might be the same example, @Pedro. What's the smallest order for which it happens?
@PedroTamaroff Wow.
Interesting.
@Pedro: What about $\Bbb Z_2 \times G$ versus $G$?
22:01
@TedShifrin I think the groups were of order $16$ or something of the sort.
Is $\operatorname{Inn}(\Bbb Z_2\times G) \cong \operatorname{Inn}(G)$?
Yup, $16$ is the smallest.
@BalarkaSen Google metacyclic group.
@PedroTamaroff I'll better find an example myself.
sorry to give you nightmares, @Alizter.
22:02
@Alizter :O
glares @Hippa
looks away innocently
runs and hides
Drôle d'innocent, @Hippa ...
@TedShifrin Doesn't the LHS have twice as much elements of the RHS?
22:05
@TedShifrin How about infinite groups $G$ and $G'$?
@TedShifrin Such wide blackboards :o
Also people use another notation since $G'=[G,G]$! =)
@PedroTamaroff Yuck.
No, no, we're not doing derived groups.
Do you get any extra inner automorphisms with the $\Bbb Z_2$ factor? I'm being dopey.
Seems to me the $\Bbb Z_2$ factor is trivial.
22:08
@TedShifrin Yeah, true.
Since $C_2$ is abelian.
Well, even if $G$ is nonabelian it holds!
No, I was thinking $A\times G$; $A$ abelian.
Oh, right @Pedro
My point exactly.
@PedroTamaroff That'd do it.
ha ha @Hippa ... Comme tu es mignon :D
22:10
@TedShifrin uh ?
@BalarkaSen: CM theory is one of the most beautiful parts of math I've ever had the pleasure of learning. Well, rather, beginning to learn. :)
It's a long story, @AWertheim
@TedShifrin I've fomulated a problem about classifying all galois extensions of a certain field $K$ with galois group some realizable $G$ over $K$.
I've also given it a cool name.
Probably related to the famous inverse Galois problem, @Balarka.
22:11
@TedShifrin Nope.
It's about classifying, not determining whether the group is realizable or not.
right ... you're back to that previous problem
@TedShifrin With a little touch of generalization.
Update: Since I blew my gasket at DonAntonio, it would appear he went and downvoted a whole pile of my answers. What a twit.
Should I report this to a mod?
If you feel like it
@TedShifrin Well, it'd be reversed anyways.
22:14
Not sure. I don't think that's "serial."
@TedShifrin indeed! My semester ended reading a bit about Shimura's work on real multiplication. Amazing stuff.
Another leading light, yeah, @AWertheim ... I really don't know this stuff at all.
@AWertheim Real multiplication?
Can you give an intro about what's it about?
@BalarkaSen: I guess I'm being cute. I don't know if it's generally called 'real multiplication', or if I am the only one who calls it that.
Well, one of the central goals of the theory of CM is to give a construction of abelian extensions of imaginary quadratic fields.
'Real multiplication', as I've called it, is concerned with the goal of constructing abelian extensions of real quadratic fields.
AH, Kronecker's Jugentradum
That's my favourite Hilbert's problem.
22:18
Instead of adjoining special torsion points of an elliptic curve, one adjoins special torsion points of a more general abelian variety to get the desired extension.
indeed, indeed, i picked up bits of the problem's statement from my professor.
Very nice! It is a remarkable problem.
I hope to even understand the subtleties of that branch someday.
Forgive me if this information you already know, but if you are more interested, the paper "Class Fields Over Real Quadratic Fields and Hecke Operators" by Goro Shimura is wonderful.
No, I haven't read it, @AWertheim. I have only barely covered modular forms.
Class field theory is far from where I am.
22:24
I see. Haha, that surprises me! It sounds like you know a good bit about it.
No, not really. I have learned modular functions from a different perspective.
The geometry behind the algebraic geometry scares me.
@AWertheim well you seem quite a lot of partial to the geometric side instead of the algebraic one. you're adjoining torsion points of abelian varieties instead of algebraic values of hyperelliptic functions!
@BalarkaSen: I'm afraid I know very little about the geometric side of things, as I've only got a very basic understanding of algebro-geometric ideas. I have had only a superficial exposure to modular forms as well. But there are certainly more algebraic ways to think about adjoining torsion points :)
For a moment there, I really thought he was Tate.
I am more interested in the algebraic side, @AWertheim. Modular forms (well, modular functions (well, automorphic forms)) can be described in terms of purely algebraic language. The most general idea is to use the fact that modular equations have algebraic points on them that satisfy a polynomial relation over some field.
@TedShifrin :3
user image
5
I laughted for 5 minutes after hearing that
22:41
oh god, I come into the room and I see this @Hippa mort de rire!!!!
@Hippalectryon HAHA
Math meme of the day :D
@Alyosha what's up ?
@G.T.R The sky/roof :D
Exams still.
22:44
ah. piece of cake for you I guess
Can I have a sanity check? $|G|=p_1^{a_1}\cdots<\infty$, then by Cauchy's theorem $\exists H\subseteq H : |H|=p_1$. $H$ is cyclic so abelian, thus $G/H$ is a group of order $p_1^{a_1-1}\cdots$.
Thus if $d|n=|G|: \exists H\subseteq G: |H|=d$.
Indeed. I'll never have school chemistry again though, which is pleasing.
@Hippalectryon see the very previous message
@G.T.R >:(
My first message should have said $H \subseteq G$.
I'll never have school chemistry again though, which is pleasing. +1
22:48
I'm planning to grouplearn some mathematics texts over the summer with people over the internet also.
@G.T.R You?
@Alyosha I can't plan anything until I know which school I can enter :(
When do you find out?
around July 14
Ah, we find out in August, though my offer isn't too harsh.
OxBridge ?
22:52
Yes, though of course that's not a place.
I used to think it was.
which one preferably?
The bridge one.
will you still be doing some physics or CS ?
A little physics.
what's the math curriculum for freshmen ?
Do you know why commutative diagrams are so powerful? I've seen them bandied around a bit but they just seem a notational shorthand.
@Hippalectryon you erased the "I'm old" part
The first year looks a little dull to be honest.
@G.T.R Yeah i know xD
22:57
Commutative diagrams are magic. :)
There was too much blablabla in between
@ThomasAndrews I gathered that they were as they're so prolifically used, but I really don't see why.
Why is the fact that compositions of different maps result in the same thing so important?
Note that I've seen an example where they are actually important, just don't see why in general.
Well, that really is the only kind of relationship you can have in categories, right?
@Alyosha part IB is interesting
@ThomasAndrews I suppose so. I've not done enough CT to really appreciate it.
@G.T.R Yes, though that's 2nd year. Part II seems the most interesting, really.
23:02
certainly you could write this out without expressing it as a diagram:
Another view is that any commutative diagram is really just a functor from a (small) )category to your category. @Alyosha
but I can't imagine why you would want to
@ThomasAndrews Thank you for that, that seems to be the sort of thing I wanted to get at. I must sleep now, though.
Essemtially, functors are generalizations of diagrams...
@Hippalectryon should not be out of your league maths.cam.ac.uk/undergrad/pastpapers/2013/ia/PaperIA_1.pdf
23:14
@Hippalectryon "Let V be the vector space of bounded continuous functions over $\mathbb R$. Prove that $V$ is not finite dimensional"

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