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01:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

19:00
@DavidKirby No, $\operatorname{Ar tanh} x$, it's area, not arcus.
$\operatorname{Ar tanh} x$
wow, what a misnomer!
i had to say out loud in german before it clicked
Areatangens Hyperbolicus, Areakotangens Hyperbolicus
19:26
@DanielFischer If you don't mind, I have a question related to what I asked earlier. Would $\cot \pi z$ also be uniformly bounded on the circle $|z|=N+1/2$ or even say the circle $|z|=N+3/4$?
@RandomVariable It would. We don't have that the arcs of the circles near the real axis are translates by a period then, as the parts of the sides of the rectangles were, so we need to consider not only a piece of a single boundary anymore.
But, we could look at a small rectangle that contains the parts of the circles with $\lvert\operatorname{Im} z\rvert \leqslant 1$ for all circles when translated.
@DanielFischer What about along $|z|=N+ \epsilon$ where $\epsilon$ is some really small number. I guess what I'm asking is would $\cot \pi z$ still be uniformly bounded if the contour got very close to the poles on the real axis?
19:45
@RandomVariable As long as you stay uniformly far away from the poles, you remain uniformly bounded, even if "uniformly far away" is rather close.
Sorry, @RandomVariable, somebody phoned, and that kicked the internet connection, therefore the delay.
Anyone up for an lhf here?
@DanielFischer Thanks. What type of internet connection do you have?
@RandomVariable Shitty. Well, the connection isn't too terrible, but the router is acting up, need a new one.
@DanielFischer Probably not as shitty as mine. I'm still using 6Mbps DSL.
@RandomVariable 2Mbps DSL
19:52
Working with elliptic integrals is a mess.
@DanielFischer I stand corrected. How long have you been at that speed?
@RandomVariable Since I upgraded from the 56k modem in 2007.
But since the hardware is playing games, the 2Mbps is a dream not coming true.
@robjohn I also created the version $$\sum_{p=1}^{\infty} \left(\left( \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \sum_{k=1}^{\infty} \frac{\Gamma(k)\Gamma(n^p+1)}{\Gamma(k+n^p+1)}\left(\frac{1}{n^p+1} + \frac{1}{ n^p +2 } + \cdots + \frac{1}{ n^p + k } \right)\right)-1\right)= \frac{3}{4}$$
Let me come up with another version ...
$$\sum_{i=1}^{\infty} \sum_{j=1}^{\infty} \left(\left( \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \sum_{k=1}^{\infty} \frac{\Gamma(k)\Gamma(n^{(i+j)/2}+1)}{\Gamma(k+n^{(i+j)/2}+1)}\left(\frac{1}{n^{‌​(i+j)/2}+1} + \frac{1}{ n^{(i+j)/2} +2 } + \cdots + \frac{1}{ n^{(i+j)/2} + k } \right)\right)-1\right)= \frac{\pi^2}{6}$$
@robjohn this is a pretty cute version! :-)
@DanielFischer Sometimes my connection is more like 3 Mbps. I can't remember what my modem speed was on my old 386. It was probably 9.6k or 14.4k.
@ZaidAlyafeai I knew that answer to your question involved that contiguous relation. I was trying to prove it before I posted anything. But O.L. beat me to it.
@RandomVariable, I was having a headache running through all those hypergeometric identities trying one after another.
There are hundreds of them :o
20:06
And ... (I'll post this one elsewhere though)
At least I proved that
$$E\left(2 \sqrt{-4+3 \sqrt{2}} \right)=\frac{\sqrt{2}}{1+\sqrt{2}}\left[\frac{\Gamma^2\left( \frac{1}{4}\right)}{8\sqrt{\pi}}+\frac{\Gamma^2\left(\frac{3}{4} \right)}{\sqrt{\pi}} \right]$$
@ZaidAlyafeai I'm pretty sure that's something I've never tried to prove.
@RandomVariable, I spent the whole day on that because I was messing the contiguous relation.
are integrals hard lol
@RandomVariable, it is not as difficult as it looks.
@RandomVariable, I used the quadratic transformation.
20:18
@ZaidAlyafeai The one from Shobhit's evaluation?
@RandomVariable, exactly ; )
here mathhelpboards.com/calculus-10/… look the last post
Are links allowed here ?
I have a question regarding turan's theorem
can there be other graphs with the same number of vertices than the turan graph that isn't a turan graph?
@ZaidAlyafeai I have the proofs of several quadratic hypergeometric transformations in my notes. I'm not sure if that is one of them. I should look.
@RandomVariable, I don't keep notes. That makes my life difficult .
20:35
/me laughs
20:47
@ZaidAlyafeai If I don't keep notes, I think I'm going to forget everything.
hmmm, I wonder if I can do this one with high school tools $$\lim_{ n \to \infty} n \int_0^1 \sqrt{\frac{\displaystyle \sum_{i=1}^{k} x^{2n-i}}{\displaystyle 1+\sum_{i=1}^{k}x^{2n+i}}} \ dx=\operatorname{arcsinh}(\sqrt{k})$$
No, I wanna try a different thing now ...
21:11
This one should be pretty interesting ...
$$\sum_{n=2}^{\infty} (-1)^n \frac{\zeta(n)}{2^{n+1} (n+1)^{2}}
$$
Then
$$\sum_{m=1}^{\infty}\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} (-1)^{m+n+1} \frac{\zeta(m+n)}{2^{m+n+1} (m+n+1)^{2}}$$
@r9m you might like the candies above (newly created) :-)
@robjohn could you replace please that $(-1)^{m+n+1}$ by $(-1)^{m+n} $?
21:26
\o
@DanielFischer sorry for pestering you with this, but do you know where I can find the proof that the derivative of a real function is Baire Class one? I couldn't find it via Google
@G.T.R I don't know where you can find a citation, but $$f_n(x) = n\cdot \left(f(x+\tfrac{1}{n}) - f(x)\right)$$ makes it immediate when the function is globally defined. You need some modification when it's defined on an open interval with finite upper bound, and for functions defined on compact intervals it's a little less easy.
21:43
I see, thanks
22:14
These arrays are killing me, I was not meant for the computers..
Hi can I ask you guys a question regarding a book recommendation
??
@Studentmath
Shoot, not sure I will be of use though
What book would you recommend me for algebra 1 (other than michael artin's book)
for practice problems
@studen
@Studentmath
I'm of no use - I studied with my university's book (and they were.. meh.) though a quick goolge search might give you some nice reviews
so which one did your university use ? perhaps I might like it
22:23
It
's hebrew :P
lo nora lol
@Studentmath Ani gam medaber ivrit
Hahahahaha
Open university :)
Where're you studying?
in boston
USA
but I'm from israel
22:25
When did you move?
I didn't move. I'm just in the US in order to complete my major
I'm a senior now
Student exchange or..? Just went there to study?
no just went there to study
Planning on coming back?
Maybe. I will be applying to grad schools soon and technion is on my list
What year are you ?
22:28
4th, kinda.
kinda ?
lol
Will finish in the first semester of 2015
oh so you're sort of a super senior
So it's the last year, yeah :P
at least that's what they call it here
you\re studying theoretical math or applied ?
22:29
Theoretical
Well, studied chemistry actually
Have half a degree in that
than just changed
Bruce Meserve's "Fundamental Concepts of Algebra"
@DavidKirby Thanks David. Will check it out
@DavidKirby Just saw the chapter list on amazon. Artin's covers much more..
e
@Studentmath interesting
When did you leave though? (what age)
Sorry.. but I hate chemistry :D
If you don't mind me asking
I didn't like it too much either, hence I changed :P I mean it was interesting, but not enough
22:34
Well I left to France when I was 17 to complete what is called a "class prepa" which was a great introduction to theoretical math. And then I applied to american universities, and decided to double major in math and physics
ah, i thought we were talking algebra i? artin's book goes quite a bit further
@DavidKirby Yes.. Could you recommend something similar
Interesting
well not similar but more a book with only problems covering the same material
as artin's
@DavidKirby
So you aren't that much older than me, too
22:36
no I'm 21
so I'll basically finish when I'm 22
i.e. next year
yeah and if I consider a phd i'll finish when I'm 26-28
so it's good
If I'll still love math by then lol
@Studentmath Are you in israel now
?
think due to the army I will have it.. well, same age then, yeah
Yep
lol what are you doing still awake lol
it's 2 am
xD
Gotta finish this computer science shizzle
22:41
ooh
(no offense to anyone who likes it)
coding at 2 am is the perfect time (no joke)
How's the US?
you're like in a state of trance when
for sure
22:41
Yeah, it is
you do this
xD true
flow state
I just reach a deadend every time, and create a new method. I have like 200000 methods of one line, I am too lazy..
@Studentmath It's nice, but the weather is bad
22:42
Miss the sun?
8 months snow (no joke) and 4 months humidity
@Studentmath YESSS!!!!
Jeez..
Anyone here who has done analysis on manifolds?
@DavidKirby It's the title of a book ?
8 months snow? hating that... i lived in alaska all last year and now i'm georgia.. so glad to be back in the south land
22:43
Everytime someone says Georgia I can't bring myself to think of the US country :P
or more like sutdied analysis with reimannian manifolds
@user52932 Depends.. If you need help with a problem, can't help. Book recommendation yes
@Carpediem Yeah..needed some help :( ty
@user52932 Sorry. I only took Analysis I. Taking your course next term
@Studentmath What city are you from ?
If you don't mind me asking
Near Kfar Saba, you?
22:46
Jerusalem
nearly all of my book suggestions are going to be 1960-1970, before the US rejected 'New Math'
(originally)
Love that city..
Well I still live there as I told you before
I just study in the US
I come every summer
I am actually in the airport as we speak
Yes, but still - lot's of time away from home :P
Really?
yes that's true
22:47
Heading home?
Yeah :D
Came too early to the airport
so chatting on stackexchange
Heh, they always stick us at the farthest exists and open them just for broading time
yes
What languages to you know (computer science) ?
@Studentmath
???
22:50
I attempt to write in Java, I don't really know to.
so how are you expecting to complete your computer science shizzle lol
quoting you
By sheer will and lots of mistakes
so you just began
I am going to learn python this summer
as far as high level languages go, python is pretty nifty.. tons of math/science libs available.
So you're saying it's a good language to start with ?
@DavidKirby
22:55
well, it depends on what you want to do
Probably developing like apps and simple softwares
websites
stuff like that
I'm not really interested in the algorithmic aspect
at least not now
I was planning to learn python this summer
and then next summer to learn C
ah, well, python is a rather hefty stack for most web applications
although not nearly as hefty as ruby, or java...
so you think Java would be more appropriate ?
Anyway I can learn both eventually lol
Well most programmers learn both eventually
so..
oh no, not at all... java really only makes sense at this point for the enterprise and for device portability (ie, video streaming)
in terms of ubiquity, javascript is the way to go
the starship enterprise will run on javascript
Has any of you taken stochastic process ?
23:00
Yeah, everyone are writing on javascript nowdays
Have *
@Studentmath ok
with that said, it's probably the most difficult language to start out with, and it's not very forgiving...
Not Java though, mind you @Carpediem
Yeah, Java is -very- forgiving on most things @David
@Studentmath Yes. I notice the emphasis on the distinction through @DavidKirby
I think a could track would be python, java, javascript, c
Anyway I can't really state anything solid for now.. talk to me in 2 years and the we can rediscuss the track concept lol
really the way it should go is : a) think about something you want to build, b) learn the tools needed to build it.
23:03
but if you want to build an iphone app for instance, it would be hard to start with C..
or C++
ah, well openframeworks
processing
well open frameworks is C++
I think it would be hard to start out with C++
no ?
I mean I never actually tried it directly
but I have been advised to start out with the more structurally simple coding languages such as python, camel (no really useful)
I don't really know why I am studying this. I mean, it's important, and actually is interesting and all.. but I don't see how I am going to use it.
@Carpediem C++ is hard even if you have experience with other languages.
I heard the same, C++ is hard.
23:06
But at least you'll have an initial insight
It's also 'old'.
through other languages
other languages, ie. c macros
@DanielFischer Have you every taken a course in stochastic process ?
@Carpediem No.
23:10
ok
Not my cup of tea.
I was just wondering
It seams interesting
initially related to probability theory
Oh god, I think I am done.
lolll
@Studentmath
This is the worst part though, now I enter the array and see all the bugs flying, nothing working as intended
23:11
oh
I thought you were so tired that you decided to crash
xD
Nah, I am an owl. I sleep till 12 or so
we both no that's not true look at watch
12 pm!
I am excited and scared, don't wanna try it out.
wtf it's 2 am XD
@DanielFischer Hey Daniel, I had a question regarding a 2-manifold
23:14
@user52932 What sort of question?
The question is as follows: For what values of $c$ will the set $\{(x,y,z):x^2+y^3+z^3-2xyz=c\}$ be a 2-manifold
Now I also have a corresponding theorem in the book that can be used...let me post it...I think that makes the problem easier
on the stochastic tip, music is the best introduction ... james tenney, iannix xenakis ...
Darn, null pointer..
@DanielFischer Thm: let $O$ br open in $R^n$ and let $f:O\to R$ be of class $C^r$. Let $M$ be set of points $x$ for which $f(x)=0$ and let $N$ be the set of points for which $f(x)$\geq 0$. Suppose $M$ is non-empty and $Df(x)$ has rank 1 at each point of $M$. Then $N$ is an n-Manifold in $R^n$ and $boundary(N)=M$
@DanielFischer This theorem I have already proved
@user52932 Under the same conditions, $M$ is an $n-1$-dimensional submanifold of $\mathbb{R}^n$.
23:21
@DanielFischer Yeah it is he boundary so its an n-1 manifold
So take $f(x,y,z) = x^2 + y^3 + z^3 - 2xyz - c$ (should that maybe have been $x^3$, by the way?) and look where $Df = 0$. For all $c$ where that doesn't happen, you have a $2$-manifold.
@DanielFischer but won't $Df$ not even contain c term?
@user52932 No, $c$ is a constant, that vanishes when differentiating.
@DanielFischer yeah so it will not appear in the $Df$ matrix...so is the answer that any value of c would do?
@DanielFischer So $Df=[3x^2-2yz, 3y^2-2xz, 3z^2-2xy]$
@user52932 No. The zeros of $Df$ are independent of $c$ - I should maybe have left $c$ out in $f$. So let $g(x,y,z) = x^2+y^3+z^3-2xyz$. For each zero $(x_0,y_0,z_0)$ of $Dg$, you get a value $c = g(x_0,y_0,z_0)$. These values are where you (probably) don't have a submanifold.
Looks like it should have been $x^3$.
23:29
yeah
Okay, there's the obvious zero $(0,0,0)$. So $c = 0$ is bad.
yeah. But looking at the matrix it seems like this might be the only case
?
Quite possible. I'm not in the mood to check whether there are other zeros now.
yeah thats fine
thanks
are you gonna be here for a while?
I have one more troublesome Analysis 1 qs...if you are free
Question for you SO lads in here, if you are stuck with something with your code, is it acceptable to ask there for help to see the problem?
23:33
I'm going to bed soon, @user52932. If you're quick, you might still get an answer out of me.
Okay. Do you know what Hausdorff metric is?
@user52932 On the space of compact subsets of a metric space?
The qs is this: We have a space $K(R)$ of all compact sets of $R$. We have $S$ as the set of closed intervals in $R$. I want to check whether $S$ is open, closed or neither in $K(R)$
under the hausdorff metric
this is the first i am seeing this metric so it makes 0 sense to me intuitively
The definition that I have is this: For $A,B\in K(X)$, d(A,B) is the smallest $\epsilon$ such that for every point $a$ in $A$ there exists a point $b$ in B such that $d(a,b)\leq \epsilon$. And for every point $b\in B$ there exists a point $a$ in A such that $d(a,b)\leq \epsilon$.
Is that $x^2$ or $x^3$ in the defn of $g$ above?
@TedShifrin if you are asking about the manifold qs it is $x^3$
23:40
@user52932 Yes, it's not exactly easy to get at the beginning. Are you comfortable with the concept of an $\varepsilon$-neighbourhood of a set?
made a typo
Ah, so you should be on the lookout for Euler's Thm on Homogeneous Functions ... Very useful :)
Hi @DanielF
Good evening, @TedShifrin
@DanielFischer First time hearing of varepsilon
@user52932 Looks better than $\epsilon$ IMO.
23:41
@DanielFischer Is it a conceptually different concept? Like epsilon is just used to denote some poistive number
lol at the above qs
btw
@DanielFischer Is it a different concept? Like epsilon is just used to denote some poistive number
@user52932 No, it's just typography.
shit tried to edit failed
I see. Yeah, I have no clue on where to even begin with this problem
Certainly you should believe $S$ isn't open, @user52932.
Wait why? I am sorry if this is super dumb...this metric is confusing the hell out of me
What sets in $K(\Bbb R)$ are close to a given closed interval? Think about what you know about compact sets.
23:46
Not open would imply that in any neighborhood I will find a not closed interval
Right.
But in R compact iff closed and bounded
right.
so all elements of $K(R)$ are closed and bounded
Are they all connected?
23:49
Hello @Prof Ted
Wait are what all connected?
the elements of S?
Heya pal @Studentmath
All compact subsets of $\mathbb{R}$.
23:49
Hi @Karl
No all compact subsets aren't connected
Sorry, @DanielF, I didn't mean to butt in ... Wanted to yell about Euler, though :)
@TedShifrin It's okay. I'm going to bed, you can take over.
So use that @user52932!
ok..the little hamster in my head is running
23:51
Schlaf gut @DanielF
@TedShifrin Thanks, will try.
@TedShifrin Do i need to use the hausdorff metric or no for this? Sorry I am stupid
Yes, saying what's close to our closed interval is using the metric.
But, before you get carried away, make sure you check Euler's thm for your other question.
Eisenbud and Harris seem to be saying the dimension of the Zariski tangent space of a scheme at a point is atleast the dimension of the local ring at the same point, even in the non-Noetherian case. Sounds like bs to me.
Agh, I know no non-Noetherian schemes ...
23:59
sigh I was not meant for this..
For which? @studentmath
Codes
Coding
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