« first day (1363 days earlier)      last day (3954 days later) » 

00:00
Yes, you can.
Write it as $$\sum\limits_{j = 0}^n {\sum\limits_{k = j}^n {{a_j}} } {b_{j-k}} = \sum\limits_{j = 0}^n {\sum\limits_{k = 0}^j {{a_{j - k}}} } {b_k}$$
Does that make it clearer for you?
Sorry, no (I see how you got the left side from my left side, but the equality that remains is still missing)
My bad, I have a mistake.
Let me fix it.
@MarioCarneiro
Note the RHS is $a_\ell b_k$ with $\ell+k=j$ and $j=0,\ldots,n$.
@PedroTamaroff are you doing Cauchy products?
@robjohn Kinda. @MarioCarneiro is?
I think this involves an extra symmetry of the triangular region that can not be reflected in the symmetries of intervals, and so a proof by index shifts is not possible
but I'd like some confirmation of this
00:15
I guess the nice way would be to draw the regions.
right
unfortunately that's not a proof
Why not?
I'm doing a formal proof
Write $\sum_R a_ib_j=\sum_{R'} a_ib_j$ where $R$ and $R'$ are the regions.
Either you're only drawing one case in full detail or you're lacking sufficient detail.
00:17
If $S=S'$, then $\sum_S=\sum_{S'}$.
@PedroTamaroff the subscripts of $b$ on the left are $j-k\le0$
@robjohn Yes, I said that was wrong.
I have a lemma that says that $\sum_{j=a}^{b}\sum_{k=c}^da_{j,k}=\sum_{z\in[a,b]\times[c,d]}a_z$, and I can probably work that to be more general
$$\sum\limits_{j = 0}^n {\sum\limits_{v + w = j} {{a_w}{b_v}} } $$
@MarioCarneiro Your RHS is that.
@PedroTamaroff okay, sorry. I'll shut up :-)
00:20
The RHS fills it in by diagonals and the LHS fills it in by columns
I just don't want to fiddle with showing that the map $\langle j,k\rangle\mapsto\langle j-k,k\rangle$ is bijective on the triangular region, cause that's a pain
but I might be able to set up the sums with index shifts so that it ends up as $\sum_R=\sum_{R'}$ where $R$ and $R'$ are seen to be equal
I wish we had rollover questions..lol. I hate hitting the daily Ask limit
@MarioCarneiro OK, here's my take on it.
Your LHS is $$\sum\limits_{j = 0}^n {\sum\limits_{k = 0}^{n - j} {{a_j}{b_{n - j - k}}} } $$
@MarioCarneiro Agreed?
OK, now flip $n-j$ to $j$, to get $$\sum\limits_{j = 0}^n {\sum\limits_{k = 0}^j {{a_{n - j}}{b_{j - k}}} } $$
Does that help?
Hm, I think not.
00:34
I don't think that changed too much, pictorially, @PedroTamaroff, since the way you construct that region is still not by diagonals.
Suppose I threw in a rule that says $$\sum_{j = 0}^n\sum_{k = 0}^{n - j} a_{j,k}=\sum_{k= 0}^n\sum_{j = 0}^{n - k} a_{j,k}.$$ Would that, plus index shifts, get us to the end?
That's more or less what arguing from a 2D sum will get you
Well, this gives the idea of what's going on: $$\displaylines{
= {a_0}{b_0} + {a_0}{b_1} + {a_0}{b_2} + \cdots + {a_0}{b_n} \cr
......... + {a_1}{b_0} + {a_1}{b_1} + \cdots + {a_1}{b_{n - 1}} \cr
................... + {a_2}{b_0} + \cdots + {a_2}{b_{n - 2}} \cr} $$
If you can write that formally, you're done.
=)
Sum the columns.
$$\sum_{j=0}^n\sum_{k=0}^{n-j}a_jb_k= \sum_{j=0}^n\sum_{k=0}^{n-j}a_jb_{n-j-k}= \sum_{k=0}^n\sum_{j=0}^{n-k}a_jb_{n-j-k}= \sum_{k=0}^n\sum_{j=0}^ka_jb_{k-j}= \sum_{k=0}^n\sum_{j=0}^ka_{k-j}b_j$$
the second step is my 2d rearranging step
00:53
@MarioCarneiro Nice. And did you prove your rearranging thingy?
No, that will take a while, but at least I know how to do it
it's just a generalization of the proof for $\sum_{j=0}^n\sum_{k=0}^na_{j,k}=\sum_{k=0}^n\sum_{j=0}^na_{j,k}$
01:26
latex latex everywhere
01:48
@usukidoll are you not running ChatJax?
I am running it ^
@usukidoll I think you mean $\LaTeX\LaTeX$ everywhere
still long :P
$yes$
but latex are for numbers not letters :P
and now I'm craving a cookie
subway cookie......mmmmmm
who played an atari 2600?
02:18
anyone there?
no
ha ha very funny
@usukidoll Am I here? Or, have I merely led myself to believe that I am here?
hi
I'm just practicing proofs.. that is all
But is this real life?
02:30
@usukidoll Can you know for sure whether you are actually practicing proofs?
=_=
If both $m$ and $n$ are odd, then $m+n$ is even and $mn$ is odd.

First we need to prove that $m+n$ is even if $m$ and $n$ are odd. By definition 2.3.1, there exists some $k \in Z$ and $l \in Z$ such that $n=2k+1$ and $ m = 2l+1$

$2l+1+2k+1$\\
$2l+2k+1+1$\\
$2l+2k+2$\\
$(2l+2k)+2$\\

We have proven that $m+n$ is even if $m$ and $n$ are odd.\\

Now, we need to prove that $mn$ is odd. \\

$(2l+1)(2k+1)$\\
$(4lk+2l+2k+1)$\\
$[(2)[2kl+l]+2k+1]$\\

wait maybe...
$([2](2kl+l+k) +1)$\\
$([2](2kl+1+l+k)$\\
does that answer your question?
Unsatisfactorily...
<_<
can't wait to master this proof stuff thing one day... at least I'm reading and trying so I could get better at it.. I could choose to give up but that ain't happening home boy ^^
Ignoring the "wait maybe" part, your proofs are correct btw.
yay... I was trying to aim for the 2kl+1 or at least some manipulation that could get me to 2kl+1
because by def if $k \in Z$ then n is odd such that $n=2k+1$ but since I have another variable, l, then wouldn't my goal would be to use manipulation to achieve $2kl+1$?
02:45
If multiplication didn't distribute, then a goal like 4 kl+1 would be reasonable. But multiplication is good at making a mess.
So 2*[insert ugly expression here] + 1 is the best you can hope for.
@KarlKronenfeld HAI.
@PedroTamaroff hello thar
That's your question?
I'm going to mess up the terminology, but is there some sort of plugin or app needed to compile the tex code in chat?
02:48
@JessicaK Yes, ChatJAX.
@KarlKronenfeld Sorry, we hoomans are stoopid Karl.
@PedroTamaroff I guess the most concise way to prove that is to note that only one term from each $g$ and $h$ contributes to the minimal/maximal degree term of $gh$.
Ok... I need advice on close-voting... This question, math.stackexchange.com/questions/771930/…, should be on Physics.SE (not a math question at all). But, Physics.SE doesn't like hw questions, so the migration probably wouldn't go through. Does this fall under the "don't migrate junk" rule, or should I just vote to close as off topic anyway?
(or, should I just answer it, because I know how?)
03:05
I'm voting as "not about mathematics as defined in the help center."
If $n$ is odd and $m$ is even, then $m+n$ is odd and $mn$ is even.\\

Suppose $n$ is odd. Then there exists some $k \in Z$ such that $n=2k+1.$ Now suppose $m$ is even. Then there exists some $l \in Z$ such that $m=2l$.

First we need to prove that $m+n$ is odd.

$2l +2k+1$\\
$2(l+k)+1$\\

Next, we need to prove that $mn$ is even.\\

$(2l)(2k+1)$\\
$(4k1+2l)$\\
$[(2)(2kl)+2l]$\\

We have proven that $mn$ is even.
I got stuck on the $m+n$ odd part -_-
Since $l,k\in\mathbb{Z}$, and since the sum of two integers is an integer, $2(l+k)+1$ is one more than twice an integer, hence...
(Does that help?)
$n=2k+1,m=2j$, $m+n=2(k+j)+1$.
yesssssss
@usukidoll you basically proved it.... :)
03:08
How are you stuck?
how was I stuck ? hmm because i wasn't sure if that was it after I found the 2k+1 because we are manipulating to have it match the definition of $n = 2k+1$ but I figure that wasn't enough so I had to factor the 2 out
yay why is it that some proofs are easier to solve than others
?
because well I thought my question from last night was good, but apparently I flopped....bad.......
http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/771119/prove-that-if-t-in-t-and-q-in-q-but-q-neq-0-then-qt-in-t-where-t
@usukidoll That is the question mathematicians have been wondering about for centuries... :)
how the hell is it possible for $ qt
$qt \in T$ to be true I still think it's not -_-
what the heck is q doing in $T$ if q is rational and by the prop... all rational numbers are algebraic -_-
transcedual numbers aren't algebraic at all
the negation of $T$ is that it is algebraic..
Nonono... that's not saying $q, t \in T$, but rather $q\cdot t \in T$.
oh crap it was the lack of the comma
03:12
(that is, a transcendental times an algebraic is a transcendental)
:)
otherwise had the question have $q,t \in T$ my disproving would've made sense shizzzzzz
Anyway--I'm headed offline for the night. Carry on! :)
righhhhhhhttttttt since $q$ is rational... $t$ is transcendental but taking the product of $q$ and $t$ then it's going to be transcendental... like hmmm if we let q = 4 and t = $\pi$
exactly.
fuuuuuuuuu......thanks for the clarification
sigh I should do some independent studying on this on top of my future courses over the summer then I would be ready for the fall ^^
that if my damn supplement books will come grrrrrr!
if it doesn't come tomorrow, I'm contacting the seller for a refund and wasting 2 weeks of my life waiting....
and this is an order from the us ... I had orders from Japan that are faster than this
Is there/What is an example of a group with a minimal nontrivial normal subgroup which is not simple?
03:35
Oh, right, the Klein 4-group in $S_4$.
List some elements in each of the following sets.

$[x \in N:(\exists k \in N)[x=7k]$

So $k$ belongs to a set of natural numbers denoted by
$N = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7...]$

Suppose we let $k = 1,2,3$. Since $ x = 7k $ we have $ x = 7,14,21$ \\
@mike uhh?
+1 to Mike's request
abcdefg
04:00
@usukidoll 197028098865338439699
04:13
hey @Karl
Pedro didn't deliver
I wanted to learn about the Fano plane
I've got a personal question
how do you feel about creamy peanut butter?
ok
we're cool @Karl
04:26
@TedShifrin I can't wait till one of my students tries to post homework on MSE, so I can lock it for a "content dispute." :)
Haha they'll just bug you during office hours then
@user127001 exactly. all according to plan.
force them into my office so I can learn 'em
I prefer office hours actually but sometimes it's not enough because there's a lot of students and sometimes you don't even get a chance to talk to the professor all week
@user127001 I've told my students I'll open up whatever extra hours they need to accomodate everybody (which is a bluff nobody's called me on yet)
how would you know if that's your student? what if they are under a username :P
04:32
@usukidoll i'm a mod. we know everything.
Haha @AlexanderGruber you're lucky I'm not your student or I'd be bothering you during extra hours and whenever I see you online here
I would've done worse ^ ;)
If $a^2 + b^2 + c^2 = 1$, then ab + bc + ca lies in $[-\dfrac12,1]$
How did we know this?
^ we bug Alexander for the answer
XD
@usukidoll, please help me!
04:39
errr i haven't had a problem like this
so I can't D:
@Sush try using the method of Lagrange multipliers.
@AlexanderGruber, pardon, will you please let me know how to use it here?I think ab + bc + ca is objective function, and $a^2 + b^2 + c^2 = 1$ is constraint, right?
yes
I got $\frac{b+c}{a}= \frac{c+a}{b}=\frac{a+b}{c}$
What to do next?
@AlexanderGruber
04:49
@Sush do what i suggested
@AlexanderGruber, I used Lagrange multipliers only!
you're not done using the method of lagrange multipliers
keep going
I did this: Let $Z=ab+bc+ca+\lambda(1-(a^2 + b^2 + c^2))$ and then differentiated wrt a, b & c
@Mike, I think you are saying that the new constraint is $\frac{b+c}{a}= \frac{c+a}{b}=\frac{a+b}{c}$?
What is the objective function now?
PLEASE HELP!
@AlexanderGruber, @Mike, I really can't move further!
Are your signs correct?
@user127001, signs of $+\lambda(1-(a^2 + b^2 + c^2))$?
05:02
you can move further, and me telling you how would just tell you the answer, which I'm not going to do
play with it on paper
you'll get the answer with enough work
Ok!
Please just let me know why this method of finding Critical points works here?
@Mike
because you're trying to minimize/maximize a function given a constraint?
that's exactly where lagrange multipliers come from
@Mike, but where does minimize/maximize come from in the question "If $a^2 + b^2 + c^2 = 1$, then ab + bc + ca lies in"?
@Sush
find the minimum and maximum of $ab+bc+ca$
do it
then you'll realize why
Ok!
05:12
I see you changed your pic @JessicaK
Still haven't changed your username @user127001
Ok I can't do this problem either
And I have an exam on Lagrange multipliers today
I guess I'm going to fail this one
that's calc iii material isn't it?
@usukidoll Oh you changed your pic too
those are kind of tricky... my prof told me not to find the value of the lagrange
yeah I'm a fairy ^^
anyway my prof was like get rid of the lagrange as soon as possible
05:15
I got up to like $(b+c)bc = (a+c)ac = (a+b)ab$ and I don't know what substitutions to make to solve for them
Tried to use $a^2 + b^2 + c^2 = 1$ somewhere but it just made it messier trying to get stuff into that format
That page has all easy examples
oh ._.
umm search for patrickjmt 's vids
on u tube
@user127001, how did you get $(b+c)bc = (a+c)ac = (a+b)ab$?
@Sush just elementary algebra
Rearranging stuff
05:19
O sorry!, I thought I was wrong.
I got 100 on the first exam then the 2nd I got an 80 because our professor left for her pregnancy and we got a different style professor
Can we solve that problem noting that $(a+b+c)^2=a^2+b^2+c^2-2ab-2bc-2ac$?
Yea but I would have never noted that
I don't have that kind of insight
How can we do that noting $(a+b+c)^2=a^2+b^2+c^2-2ab-2bc-2ac$?
@user127001
You can use some analysis tricks
Inequalities and stuffs
05:21
hmm!
I'm not keen on those yet
So yea I'm gonna give up now because I have to sleep a little before my exam and I don't think I will do well on it anyway
I forgot to shower for 5 days ;_;
I don't like people talking to me anyway
you should
really shower
please
I think Lagrangian is way better! But am stuck! I found out as @FernandoMartin told that max is 1 and min is -1/2. But How that relates to this answer?@Mike
05:23
I haven't slept and I have an exam in a few hours
No time to shower
@Sush: read the problem again
It only takes 15 minutes.
Ok!@FernandoMartin
I haven't cut my hair in a year either lol
Get some sleep pal.
05:25
Such is college life
@user127001 Only five days?! Way to waste the fresh water...
karl no
@Sush All of the signs are $+$. You can use this to establish the lower bound of $f$.
@Mike no what?
karl no
@skullpatrol no what?
05:28
karl no
@user127001 no what?
who's starring this shit?
HAHA!!!! GOT IT ! Thank you so much, @Mike,@alaxander, @FernandoMartin.!
don't forget the PSA, folks
I will use the same TRICK for other such problems!
@Mike, what is PSA?
PSA: Please do not spam the star queue with strings of random messages.
05:33
@Mike, Prostate-specific antigen ?
yes
@KarlKronenfeld There is no word that begins with "A" in that sentence.
PS A
It's not a shorthand for that sentence either, @skullpatrol
PSA: Please See Again?
05:38
Please Stop Abuse?
Please Star Appropriately?
@Mike It is not defined here therefore it does not exist QED @karl
Pantleg Search Advisory?
Nope!
Person Seated Ahead?
Nope!
Penguin-Suing Adult?
Nope!
05:46
I'm sticking with Pantleg Search Advisory
@KarlKronenfeld @skullpatrol hey, that question has been included in the hot network question list...
the period?
@skullpatrol yup
05:48
but I wonder why do they guys 'tweet' questions. it is a weird behaviour. Almost all of my questions are always tweeted
boredom?
whats with the star queue?
three times no what and by the same user @KarlKronenfeld really?
What do the experts over at LaTex say about it?
@skullpatrol they say, you are great sir, we are confused, we declare we have lost. you win...
lol
05:50
@KarlKronenfeld and why?
Did you click the link?
I'd prefer the messages not be starred.
oh, for the next time, you can embed such links in chat itself. clicking on links to read a message is a pain!!!
Yay, just click and drag the message down.
by guys... c u, have fun, and don't eat all chocolates :)
@AwalGarg idc
05:53
later
pSA - Public Search Association
anyone wanna answer this.. have no clue lol


http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/772135/ordinary-differential-equations-odes-solve-the-initial-value-problem?noredirect=1#comment1603327_772135
psa - power shower awesomer
Nope! 0/3
oooo neighbor fight
Public Service Announcement
05:58
OMG Yes!
yay ^^
@KarlKronenfeld I don't cook?
I don't care
06:06
instant dental correction?
Nope!
idk - I don't know
@KarlKronenfeld you're too easily entertained.
shutup, I am trying to think of good words starting with k
tee -too easily entertained
know is a good one
06:09
meh
kill
Krillin
ever heard of a dictionary?
no, what's that?
google it
krispy kreme
06:11
irritable dancing kneecap (syndrome)
achooooooooo
bless you
 
1 hour later…
07:48
@AlexYoucis Yo.
07:59
@Mike Sup.

« first day (1363 days earlier)      last day (3954 days later) »