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15:11
@Chris'ssis where?
Anyone?
Sorry for being annoying...
@N3buchadnezzar You've accepted an answer. Do you still have a question?
@robjohn Solving the given equation gives the incorrect result
Linear Algebra is killing me... The book is unreadable, no teaching prof's.. I can't solve these questions, it drives me mad.
@robjohn As I wrote above, solving the integral in the answer gives a $a$ and not $a^2$ in the denominator
15:22
@N3buchadnezzar should the bottom limit on $I_1$ be $ma$?
@robjohn yeah
@robjohn sent. No hurry with them. A bit later I send the final part.
If anyone could clear why this is true, I will appreciate it a lot. Why is (u, (v,w1)w1)=($\bar(v,w1)$(u,w1)) and not (v,w1)(u,w1) ((the first one has over-bar above it, not sure it got it right with math jax))
I didn't read/see any rule stating it is so, and they are just using it.. I can't figure out why it is true.
( , ) is not necesserily the standart multipication
15:44
@Studentmath, what does $(u,(v,w_1)w_1)$ mean?
multipication in some unkonw V of u and $(v,w_1)w_1)$
(the latter came from some linear transformation)
Also, ||$w_1$||=1, unfortunately I do not know what ( , ) means in this multipication..
Are the parentheses instead $\cyc{ \, , \, }$?
Sorry, user defined latex command.
$\langle\, , \,\rangle$
It's the same meaning, yes. Simply in my text-book they write it this way.
What book are you using?
It's Hebrew book, so I doubt you would know it - written by Abraham Orenstein
But the meaning is the same, yes.
15:50
Is the field $\mathbb C$?
@robjohn I'll use 2 more parts and I'm done (I need to write things there). Out for half an hour or so.
The field is unknown, I will quote the full question if I may? Thanks for your time
@Chris'ssis got 'em
Well, what you wrote looks like it's suppose to be a Hermitian form, to me.
Where $\langle u, \langle v,w_1\rangle w_1\rangle$ just needs a simple manipulation to get what they want.
Precisely, I understand what the manipulation needs to be - I also saw that's the one they used in the solution. But I can't figure out wht it is true.
15:54
Well, unless they gave you some random form with a rule or something and said "Show this is Hermitian," then I'd assume they just told you it's Hermitian.
In which case, a Hermitian form is linear in the second variable, but Hermitian symmetric in the first variable.
Which is where the bar comes from.
They didn't tell me it's Hermitian, that's the problem
Then, I have no idea :-(
Unless they gave you some rule for the form.
I will just quote it, hopefully it will make sense that way..:
Ok.
Given inner prduct space V (with some unknown inner multipication ( , ) ), let $w_1$, $w_2$ be two vectors in V so that ||$w_1$||=||$w_2$||=1, (w1,w2)=0.
Let T:V-->V Be a linear transformation, so that:
Tv=v-2(v,$w_1$)$w_1$-2(v,$w_2$)$w_2$
15:59
What is the bar supposed to be?
I need to prove that it is hermitian ( I think that's the English word for it, I.e. T=T*), and that T*T*=I
||x|| this bar?
It means the norm of the vector
In your question about you had $\overline{v}$.
But now that you say it's supposed to be Hermitian, then that is complex conjugate.
That bar. It's the bar that means, say, Z=a+i-->$\overline{z}$=a-i
I do not know whether it is complex or real, it's just a given field. So I have to assume the 'harsher' rules, so I go by the complex rules for it, for if F=R then (x,y)=(y,x)
but when F is just a given field, then for V (x,y)=$\overline{y,x}$
Well, if they are asking to show it is Hermitian, then the field should be $\mathbb C$.
Okay, even if so - why do they go about saying that (a, (x,y)y)=$\overline{(x,y)}$(a,y)?
Why isn't it (x,y)(a,y)?
16:07
If it's Hermitian, then you would have linearity in the second variable, which gives $\langle x,y\rangle \langle{a,y\rangle$.
Sorry, $\langle x , y \rangle \langle a, y \rangle$.
But then it is Hermitian symmetric in the first variable so that it becomes $\langle \overline{\langle x,y \rangle} a, y\rangle$.
But I do not know it's hermitian.
If I do not know it's hermitian, I can't necesserily use that rule, right?
Right, if you don't know that the form is Hermitian, you would have to show it.
In there solution, to show it is hermitian, they used that rule.
Their*
Which is what got me confused, as I can't see a way to prove that it indeed T=T* if not for that rule, but that rule comes about only if T=T*..
Are you trying to show that the form is Hermitian or the transformation is Hermitian?
Transformation.
Tv=v-2(v,w1)w1-2(v,w2)w2
16:14
Oh, so maybe your form $\langle \,,\, \rangle$ is assumed to be Hermitian.
Which is how they would get that step.
Otherwise, I don't see how that makes sense.
Oh, I see.. is it usually assumed to be so from your experience? They don't state it is so..
It might depend. For instance, if the chapter is on complex vector spaces and only uses Hermitian forms.
But that's bad form to not state so in the problem, in my opinion.
It got me really puzzled.. but I guess that's what they assume. Thanks a lot, it did clear it up
It is very badly worded - the book and the questions, usually. Really a pain to study it like that.
And once again, thanks a ton for your time @5space!
Sorry that your book is frustrating! Glad I can help :-)
@robjohn back. While walking I realized I can come up with a HUGE improvement. See the last double integral in the second part before being split into $I$ and $J$. By changing the integration order there, things turn into a piece of case.
16:25
@Chris'ssis okay...
16:53
@DanielFischer, what would you proposed about this? Thanks!
@nullgeppetto Your hyperplane is $\{\mathbf{x} : \mathbf{w}\cdot\mathbf{x} = c\}$ for some $c\in\mathbb{R}$, right?
@DanielFischer, yeah, I guess so. Doesn't it hold for $c=-b$, or am I too much confused?
@DanielFischer, sorry, I need to make a correction in my question...
@nullgeppetto Well, there's no $= 0$ in the question, so I thought I'd make sure.
@DanielFischer, that's right!
@robjohn are you? I'm done. :-)
17:09
@Chris'ssis did you finish writing up the answer?
@robjohn Yes.
@robjohn take it and delete it. :-)
@Chris'ssis okay, got it.
@robjohn there is a wrong "M" instead of "I" from the previous try.
I wanted to change that.
@nullgeppetto I think the best way would a change of coordinates so that your distribution becomes the rotationally invariant standard normal distrubution. Then rotate so that your hyperplane is $\{x_n = k\}$. That makes the first $n-1$ integrals trivial and leaves you with $$\int_{-\infty}^k (k-x) e^{-x^2/2}\,dx + \int_k^\infty (x-k)e^{-x^2/2}\,dx.$$
@robjohn I'm so glad I finalized things. I worked on it for 2 days.
17:18
@DanielFischer, then it's the integral of the gaussian pdf by $\mathbf{w}\cdot\mathbf{x}+b$, just like one of my older questions in which you gave the correct answer? :)
Similar, @nullgeppetto. But wait, it's a little more complicated than what I wrote above, because the first change of coordinates doesn't leave distances invariant.
@robjohn Now I need to check the whole proof and correct all small mistakes, typos and so on.
@robjohn I'd like to publish this one. (well, I need to add some more details, but this is just a piece of cake)
@DanielFischer, hmm... Does the comment of @Rahul make any sense?
@DanielFischer, it's that difficult, right? I though it would be somehow easier...
@nullgeppetto It almost makes sense. Rahul missed that you're looking at the distance, and that gives you an absolute value in between.
And absolute values complicate things.
@Chris'ssis where did you get the problem?
17:25
@DanielFischer, I see... awf..
@robjohn It's a problem created by me. I started from the case in $2$ variables that is pretty nice and easy.
@nullgeppetto First part, change of coordinates so that the axes are eigenvectors of $\Sigma$ is no problem. The somewhat hairy part is the scaling of the axes. Being not so good in geometry, I don't know off-hand how that translates to the distance thing.
@robjohn at any rate, it's a hard problem (at least to me - I worked for 2 days and I barely eat and drink something)
@DanielFischer, ok, so if we find out what's happening with the scaling of the axis, then we can compute the mean distance, right? I mean, it's a matter of a scalar factor after all?
@robjohn I also sent an e-mail to a professor from Harvard to ask from an alternative way of getting the first equality for that I needed to work a lot. He didn't answer me back yet.
17:31
Chrissy @Chris!
@Chris'ssis Some professors reply and some don't.
I am listening to youtube.com/watch?v=NLyN39eykX8 now @Charlie.
@JasperLoy Yeah, I'm very curious about the answer I receive. It's the first time I do this.
@JasperLoy I simply wanna know if there exist a better way of doing some things.
Good taste @Jasper
@Charlie GREAT CAT!!!!!!!!!! I've almost missed you! How are you doing?:-)
@Charlie It's special because his voice is exceptionally good in this recital.
17:34
@Chris almost?? I'm pretty fine
@Jasper I love Pavarotti
How are you @Chris?
@Charlie How! I'm very GREAT! I just put down a very tough triple integral!:-)
@Charlie This night I'll sleep like a baby.
That's pretty good @Chris
@nullgeppetto Ah, got it. the distance is $$\frac{\lvert \mathbf{w}\cdot\mathbf{X} + b\rvert}{\lVert \mathbf{w}\rVert}.$$ We can pull out the denominator, so we have an integral $$\int \lvert \mathbf{w}\cdot\mathbf{X}+b\rvert\, f(\mathbf{X})\,d\mathbf{X},$$ and when we transform $\mathbf{X}$, writing $\mathbf{X} = A\mathbf{Y}$, we get $\mathbf{w}\cdot\mathbf{X} = (A^T\mathbf{w})\cdot\mathbf{Y}$.
@JasperLoy Welcome back.
Bel
Bel
Hi everybody
can someone help me to solve my problem here http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/682765/the-space-spanned-by-the-rows-of-the-kernel-matrix
17:44
@DanielFischer, it seems nice, but I need sometime to understand it. I start now! Anyway, thank you very much Daniel! I'll let you know if it works (I am sure it does for sure)!
@DanielFischer, I think it's the same with previous question (except for the denominator), yes? But the limites of the integration are infinite? Am I right?
@nullgeppetto It's quite similar. Here we have the additional distance, but the same transformations lead to a more-or-less known integral.
@DanielFischer, thanks a lot! You always save my soul!
18:44
@robjohn in the 3rd part the integration limits are wrongly put in some places.
I'm out for now. Too tired to do any more math.
Glad I put the beast down! I feel like a gladiator! :-)
19:20
@GabrielR. Anti-topological anti-riemann supermetric isotopy
@Sawarnik Haven't seen you around today.
19:43
@Chris'ssis just typos
hey
I dont understand how to go from the mean and sd. to a and b in the uniform distribution, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
the end formula is there but I cant get from one to the other, I get a big mess
Hey
@BalarkaSen O! Hi
Hullo.
@BalarkaSen May I ask something?
19:56
Sure. Fire away.
You could have asked in Pedro style, you know.
But I am a boy, I give you that.
Pedro style, like?
=)
Which other way?
:13885398 I saw you avatar and your face idiot.
=P
Hahaha.
I am disappointed.
20:03
@Sawarnik Have any tricksey math problem?
@Sawarnik Hahaha.
@BalarkaSen Hmm..tricksery. Do you have any idea how delighted was I when you were not able to solve one of my problem. But for now...thinking.
@Sawarnik There is no reason to believe I will be able to do each and every one of your problems. I am still an amateur.
I have an exponential equation, want it?
But give a trick math, c'mon.
@Sawarnik Uh, which one?
Oh, okay, sure.
$16^{x^2+y}+16^{y^2+x}=1$
x and y are real.
20:07
Okay, wait a bit I will switch myself to laptop.
@BalarkaSen I am not expecting you to do all the problems. But I am quite delighted, to see intelligent people fail with my problems. =)=)=)=)
There?
Yeah, there and back again.
Now lets see what you've got.
@Sawarnik Well, you never know whether your problem is easy or not. It might be say one of the open problems in mathematics =)
I hate my laptop keyboard.
$16^{x^2}\cdot 16^y + 16^{y^2}\cdot 16^x = 1$
Yes, then?
Again, no pen and paper in front of me.
Ok, sprouting thoughts.
20:21
Sprouting thoughts as usual.
@Sawarnik Exactly. =D
In some time, I could write an essay on you. :)
We can take out $16^{x + y}$ out of that, I reckon.
@Sawarnik And I do believe it will contain that I am an idiot?
Exactly the opposite.
Dont you think its easier to get a pen and paper, than typing .
@Sawarnik Yes, it is, but I have none at this time, the dead of a night.
Ok, solve it. Its not so easy though :):)
20:26
Would log do any good?
Probably not.
Hmm, I see.
Wat?
Oh, that.
Nah, it was just a double post.
Ok. Any ideas?
Looking for one.
Prove that there is other solution except one.
20:30
Wait... does this use ineqs?
Sadly, using ineqs is the easiest way, IMO.
I hate ineqs and not interested to do that way.
I hate it.
Better diophantine approach must be taken.
Hey @BalarkaSen, have you seen this?
20:34
@IanMateus No.
@IanMateus I see that you celebrated your birthday recently?
@Sawarnik wat?
@BalarkaSen Um.. was I wrong?
Oh, he is 16 now. I see
@BalarkaSen he is talking about the fanatic badge
20:38
@IanMateus No, I saw that you turned 16. What has the fanatic to do with the birthday?
@Sawarnik heh, that was like ten months ago
@IanMateus Wat? Last time I checked, probably a month ago at most, you were 15.
A Githoniel, Elbereth!
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
@Sawarnik I thought it was something like "life starts after Math.SE". I don't know how I thought of that hehehe
@Sawarnik no, I think you are talking about Alizter
@BalarkaSen What is this? Maybe you showing that your memory is good?
20:42
@Sawarnik Elven-praise of Elbereth.
@Sawarnik Not really. I just recalled this one.
@Sawarnik it might happen that you are inside a really fast rocket.
@IanMateus I am on Earth.
@Sawarnik How do you prove?
You could be in a 11-dimensional rotative subatomic particle, you know.
You can see my location on the profile. If you check that place on map, you will find that it is on Earth.
The map could be wrong.
20:48
Do you have a correct map?
Maybe, maybe not.
@BalarkaSen Well, subatomic particle?
@Sawarnik Yeah, vibrating strings =D
@BalarkaSen I am not good in physics you know.
Neither am I.
I hate physics.
And physicists.
20:51
@BalarkaSen Your knowledge suggest otherwise.
@Sawarnik I have datas and nothing else.
I don't really understand what string theory and QM is.
I even suck at classical physics.
Hey, @anon
hello
@BalarkaSen Good. Something we have in common.
@anon limit superior?
har har
20:54
Haar measure?
@BalarkaSen When will you go to bed?
@Sawarnik dunno
I will enjoy my long vacation tonight
What for? Your exams are over?
and celebrate.
@Sawarnik Exams are on april.
It's because of secondary would be held in my school.
idiot wind blowin' everytime ya move your mouth
@BalarkaSen I hate your school. Wakes you up at 9, gives a long vacation for nothing, no projects, ...
20:56
@Sawarnik Hahahaha
I am waking at 9:30 lately.
btw
fyi
9:30 at vacations?
@Sawarnik 9:30 at schools. 12:00 at vacations.
And what about the 8:15 you were waking two days before?
that was a show off to the gatekeeper a bit
warned me to be early lately.
So, your school, go anytime you want?

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