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08:00
Before all that mess.
Specially because there is a coloured Yoshi that can fly when it eats a turtle casket.
Please upvote my latest lhf...
who cares tho
08:10
@anon
@Pedro
Lang talks about "finite" $p$-groups. I take an infinite $p$-groups is one in which every element is $p$-torsion?
yes
and then there are pro-p groups...
08:12
What are those? =D
inverse limits of finite p-groups
(like the p-adics under addition)
OK.
Also.
Remember what I asked? What can be said about $G$ is every subgroup has index divisible by $p$?
@DanielFischer said $G$ is a $p$-group.
@PedroTamaroff is $G$ finite or no
08:13
Yes, finite.
use and abuse cayley's theorem
"Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaape!"
if G is finite then every proper subgroup has index divisible by p if and only if G is a p-group
now prove it @Pedro :p
08:15
sylow
i didn't want you to prove it, dingus
@anon LOL, what about not using Sylow?
(i use the term dingus exclusively for cajoling)
Because Lang assumes G is finite with every subgroup with index div by p when proving Sylow.
@Pedro No, but really, use Cauchy's.
08:16
Of course, if we know G is a p-group, things are trivial.
It's almost immediate, bro.
@Mike I have an element of order $p$ in $G/H$?
working too hard
if $|G|=p^n$ we're done, so let $p'\mid$ $|G|$
meh
let p prime divide the cardinality of the group G
Of course Sylow makes it effing obvious.
there's an element of order $p$, $p'$ divides $|G|/p$, contradiction
i'm not using sylow
08:21
having no knowledge of model theory, is "order is even" a first-order thing for groups?
i had the same question.
i'm pretty sure the MO copy of this question had the same damn answer
@Mike Come again?
I said indices divisible by $p$; not exactly $p$.
fucking
i'm going back to my hole now
What is yer midterm about?
religion lol
08:24
ah, "order is even" = "has elt of order 2" @Mike
@anon yes
@Mike May Superman have mercy on your soul.
@anon deleted before i even noticed your message
@Mike Pop-math!
i don't understand why that would be popular
erryone knows what "prime" means. erryone knows what "followed by a cube" means.
hence erryone can understand the question and the solution and be "DAAAAAAYUM"
08:30
and erryone could come up with that proof if they played with a pad of paper for a couple minutes
Of course.
@anon $p$-groups are "supersolvable".
I confess I had forgotten what that term meant.
@anon I like your terminology for series: subnormal means $H_i\lhd H_{i+1}$, and "normal" shall mean every $H_i$ normal in $G$.
but does $\sum_{i=1}^\infty H_i = -\frac 1{12}$?
don't thank me, thank wikipedia and groupprops
$$\sum_{n=1}^\infty H_n=(\lim_{n\to\infty} H_n)\sum_{n=1}^\infty 1=-\frac{1}{12}\times-\frac{1}{2}=\frac{1}{24} $$
08:40
@Mike You're studying Religion right?
You know what lapidation means then.
Not a god damn clue
@anon i approve
8 million followers
DAMN.
@PaulEpstein Hello.
08:56
lol i still haven't started studying
It's simple.
What are the topics?
whatever readings we've been doing, the test will be trivial
"study" means "read the stuff we were supposed to read"
that guy must have zillion children @Mike
09:19
bunny rabbit!!!! play bites
09:32
@usukidoll How old are you?
Just curious.
Did you study anything else before math?
English but that's easy ^^
did some business oh man that was cheesy :/
09:34
So you have a few majors in your pocket?
I can still minor in business though if I choose to
you had something easy, something cheesy,
time to study rap and get on your weezy (and, more importantly, yeezy)
just kidding. don't get on your weezy.
yo man your rhyme is sleazy
09:37
yeah i was cheating there with yeezy.
nobody calls him yeezy
I need to sleep soon in a few minutes x.x
@PedroTamaroff I can't find my textbooks rofl
blah ...
@Mike Dude.
plays bite
09:38
@usukidoll what is that? =D
wiggles @PedroTamaroff ear
by the way I got to redo a problem...ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I'll do that tomorrow after school and submit the damn rewrite on Friday
@usukidoll dammit, im not your toy. =O
Found one, but not the one I was looking for!
wtf who knew that not typing = would result in a meaningless paper
09:40
I got the right answers though
just forgot the = in the latex and Bam my entire proof paper became meaningless afterwards oh gawd #firstworldprobz
I found my book on continued fractions.
Suppose $\sigma\in A_n$. What are the possibilities for $C_{S_n}(\sigma)/C_{A_n}(\sigma)$?
I am thinking either $1$ or $2$.
But I am not sure.
@anon ?
@DanielFischer !!
@usukidoll WAT
@PedroTamaroff !!!
true story
09:43
@usukidoll What's your name?
@AlexanderGruber Question above $\uparrow$.
remember this? math.stackexchange.com/questions/668272/… everything right... but no = at each line ---> NO POINTS FOR YOU! I was like omg wtf :O
I wonder if I threw it out.
@usukidoll Yeah, pretty moronic.
at least I get to revise my paper but that's a stupid way to waste ink and paper
and I have to redo this as a whole too -_- math.stackexchange.com/questions/669380/…
wdafuqdoesmyprofwant?
Whoa
A stack of homeworks from like a week ago
That has just been sitting in my backpack...
09:47
throws @Mike's homework away
@PedroTamaroff Suppose $\pi \in C_{S_n}(\sigma)\setminus C_{A_n}(\sigma)$. Suppose $\psi \in C_{S_n}(\sigma)\setminus (C_{A_n}(\sigma) \cup \pi C_{A_n}(\sigma))$.
They were graded, though, and this was after their midterm. So no harm done.
Flappy Bird sucks
I just played the flash version of it .. the pipes are like from mario bros
@PedroTamaroff I think I must have left it on campus.
09:52
This pisses me off. It's even tagged as HOMEWORK. Don't solve someone else's homework for them.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! someone answered it
the helllllll why revive a year old thread
@DanielFischer Supposing...
Didn't even know it was a year old.
asked Mar 23 '13 at 13:17
@usukidoll You never told me your name.
09:54
but I wanna go sleep soon
and catch bunny
@DanielFischer (I am right, though, yes?)
@PedroTamaroff I suppose so.
@DanielFischer What about this?
need to sleep night everyone
Night, @usukidoll.
@PedroTamaroff I suppose you're right ;)
09:56
@PedroTamaroff Her name is Ally.
@DanielFischer $C_{A_n}(\sigma)=A_n\cap C_{S_n}(\sigma)$ by iso theorem, $$\frac{C_{S_n}(\sigma)}{C_{A_n}(\sigma)}\simeq \frac{A_nC_{S_n}(\sigma)}{A_n}$$
one more thing *wiggles @PedroTamaroff ear again * heheee
@Mike As in Allison?
Like Allison.
I am being told to prove that if $[C_{S_n}(\sigma):C_{A_n}(\sigma)]\neq 2$, then $C_{S_n}(\sigma)=C_{A_n}(\sigma)$.
09:57
@PedroTamaroff Or just $\pi\psi \in A_n\cap C_{S_n}(\sigma)$.
Damn, I thought she would deny it instead of ignore it.
@usukidoll is mean
@DanielFischer Sorry?
@PedroTamaroff I don't think you're sorry at all.
My phone has the Flappy Bird installed.
$_$
Sell it, dude.
And then give me 5%. Finders fee.
10:01
@PedroTamaroff $\pi,\psi \in C_{S_n}(\sigma)\setminus C_{A_n}(\sigma)$. Then $\pi\psi^{-1}$ \in A_n\cap C_{S_n}(\sigma)$, so $\pi C_{A_n}(\sigma) = \psi C_{A_n}(\sigma)$.
Question for all you past B.Sc lads
How's Linear Algebra 2 compared with set theory and Linear Algebra 1?
Elemantry Set Theory of course..
What order are you using, @Studentmath?
@Studentmath Heh, we don't attend your university.
Well, of course.. but generally speaking
10:03
Hmm. covering-spaces has 200 or so questions.
My question stands, @Studentmath
If you would compare the two subjects. In here it's sperated (1 and 2) around..
What are the contents?
What I'm saying is that I don't know what grounds you want me to compare them on.
Well, Linear Algebra one covered all the Linear Space V above R, and everything in it, Linear Algebra two starts discussing the eucaldian space. Elemantry set theory goes about like pretty every other elemantry Set Theory course.. I wonder how is it, difficulty compared (if possible at all)
And your subjective opinion on how interesting is one compared to the other. Obviously subjective, still..
That entirely depends on the university and the professor, unfortunately. Also, err, Euclidean space would be $\mathbb R^n$ by any standards I know. How that different from "the linear space V above R"?
10:07
I went through Set Theory in two weeks, wonder if I can manage to go through Linear Algebra 2 in one week.. I think I went through Linear Algebra 1 in two weeks too.
Then those courses are pretty short.
I mean, you cannot possibly expect to develop many topics in one week.
@PedroTamaroff Maybe the students are kept in the classroom 40 hours per week for that class.
It's defined as the linear space V above R where there is skalar multipication in that space
Or maybe the students live out of the classroom. They claw at their eyes, crying for help. But none arrives.
@PedroTamaroff It's supposed to be 5 months, I was just lazy and dragged it to the last moment like an idiot
Again and again..
10:09
WAT.
$\pi,\psi \in C_{S_n}(\sigma)\setminus C_{A_n}(\sigma)$. Then $\pi\psi^{-1} \in A_n\cap C_{S_n}(\sigma)$, so $\pi C_{A_n}(\sigma) = \psi C_{A_n}(\sigma)$.
@DanielFischer I am a bit lost on what you're doing.
Too many chatter in between.
I'm pretty tired.
@PedroTamaroff Showing that $[C_{S_n}(\sigma) : C_{A_n}(\sigma)] \leqslant 2$.
Ah, OK.
...
The last version doesn't use contradiction.
I just spent 15 minutes looking for coupon codes for a flight whose cost is going to be reimbursed to me...
10:29
@DanielFischer Does the iso help?
I.e. does it provide us with another proof?
I said $C_{S_n}/C_{A_n}\simeq A_nC_{S_n}/A_n$ where the centers are w.r.t. to some fixed permutation.
@PedroTamaroff Yes, that's another proof.
@DanielFischer How would it go?
I couldn't see it.
@PedroTamaroff Hm? $[S_n : A_n] = 2$, so there's not much choice for what $A_n C_{S_n}(\sigma)$ could be, is there?
@PedroTamaroff Oh, hi. Pings are highlighted wierdly for me.
@DanielFischer Ah =P
@DanielFischer Pretty much like $[G:H]=p$ prime then $N(H)=H$ or $G$.
10:37
@PedroTamaroff In the case $p = 2$, you don't even need any knowledge about multiplicativity of indices, it's immediate from knowing there is no integer between $1$ and $2$. Otherwise, exactly that.
Purrfect! =D
@DanielFischer Sure, sure.
@PedroTamaroff I am a huge dumbass. It took me this long to realize it highlighted differently because it was a link. lol
Those are all the rage now.
10:42
@DanielFischer Now I have to prove a bunch of stuff about sizes.
@PedroTamaroff What sort of sizes?
$|\sigma^{A_5}|=1,20,12,15$ according to $\sigma$ being the identity, a three cycle, a five cycle or a product of two transpositions, @DanielFischer.
Okay, I've gone full meta. I'm pleased.
@Mike What have you done!?
mindfuck
10:44
@PedroTamaroff What the four-letter-word does $\sigma^{A_5}$ mean?
Wait. Karl beat me to it?!
See the edit icon.
hangs head in shame
@DanielFischer Conjugacy class of $\sigma$. =P
10:45
I have an idea.
@PedroTamaroff Does it involve the class formula?
@DanielFischer Orb-stab, so yes I'd say.
I had an idea, once.
@Mike If I had the power to freeze all channels but this one...
10:47
@PedroTamaroff Yes.
@DanielFischer
I was thinking as follows.
I know that $|\sigma^{A_5}|=|A_5|/|C_{A_5}(\sigma)|$.
I can't decide whether I should sleep or study.
I have yet to study at all, so that would seem to be the wisest course of action. But I'm very tired.
You should watch me try get one of these right. :)
@PedroTamaroff That's where I would start too.
So the above is the same as showing that $C_{A_5}(\sigma)=60,3,5,4$.
Now, the first one is trivial.
So, I should prove that $3$-cycles only commute with themselves.
10:55
@PedroTamaroff It is exactly the opposite of trivial ;)
@DanielFischer Heh, you silly you.
@PedroTamaroff sometimes it may be easier to look at $C_{S_n}(\sigma)$.
@DanielFischer Sure.
And by the previous exercise.
I know that $|\sigma^{A_n}|=|\sigma^{S_n}|$ or $2|\sigma^{A_n}|=|\sigma^{S_n}|$
@Mike Check dis out.
Seems like you got it right, dude
10:58
Supposed to link to my next message
Ahhh.
Someone at some other channel slipped in before I made my link
Those damn English learners...
How about now?
You can do it pretty easily if you set the link up to be two, three messages away... and then wait for someone to chat.
11:03
(removed)
Guys stop.
You'll break the chat.
Okay I give.
And we'll all die.
Or worse.
Go to chat hell.
@Karl We're already past my message stamp.
11:05
I just checked that.
lol
Theory: if you click that link before it's used, the system won't use the stamp
We're doing serious mathematics here folks
@Mike Oh, actually, I have been checking them before posting them, so I am not sure about that.
Huh... it's a mystery why 250 was skipped, then.
OK, time to get a couple hours sleep
11:23
@DanielFischer I think I am on the right direction.
@PedroTamaroff Determining the centralisers?
Yes. Suppose $\sigma=(ijk)$ is a $3$-cycle and $\tau$ is in $A_5$. Then from $\tau(ijk)\tau^{-1}=(\tau i\,\tau j\,\tau k)=(ijk)$ i get $\tau=1,\sigma,\sigma^2$.
So $C_{A_5}(\sigma)=\langle \sigma\rangle$.
And $|\sigma^{A_5}|=5!/6=20$.
Something similar should work with a $5$ cycle.
The egalities follow because one get $\tau=\mu \sigma^k$, and $\mu$ must be $\rm id$ by parity.
So it remains to show what happens for products of two transpositions.
If we have $(ij)(k\ell)$ then things are easy. So I'll look at $(ij)(i\ell)$.
@PedroTamaroff Yeah. Chatting is not exactly productive time. And then there are quite a few people I consider not worth my time at all, chat or not.
@MattN. Depends on what you chat about. =)
@MattN. How's it going?
@DanielFischer Good to have you. I've been following you here on SE. I think you're awesome.
@PedroTamaroff Good and yourself? I suppose student life has started for you for real now?
11:37
@MattN. @DanielFischer Your fanbase just doubled!
@MattN. Yeah, I am starting my second year as an undergrad on April I think.
@MattN. Thank you for the flowers.
Will take two courses that are definitely not lightweight.
@PedroTamaroff And? How do you like it?
11:39
@MattN. Well, most of the courses I took were not a challenge really.
@PedroTamaroff What's the complete list of courses you did in your first year and will do in your second year?
@PedroTamaroff Of course not for you. You're clever and on top of that you already learned everything before you even started : D
So.... let's hear your choice of courses?
@PedroTamaroff You know what happens if you look at the centraliser in $A_4$ then, and you have to see that nothing new arises from the fifth point.
@MattN. First year I did Algebra I, Analysis I, Linear Algebra and Analysis II, plus a course on Sequences and Series (ended with a little "paper" on Fourier Theory). Second year will be Advanced Calculus and Algebra two, plus a course in Combinatorics.
I don't know about the second semester yet.
This summer I am doing the pre-Advanced Calculus course, which is pretty much known stuff.
Is algebra 1 the same as linear algebra and algebra 2 the same as abstract algebra?
Advanced calculus = multi-variable stuff?
@MattN. No, Algebra I is a survey of the super basic stuff in math. Linear Algebra is quite a long cool course.
@MattN. No, multivar is Analisis I and II.
11:42
@PedroTamaroff I think you can safely ignore $(ij)(i\ell)$, that is a three-cycle.
Calculus is more like Banach Spaces, Basic Point Set Topology, and some other stuff. Metric Spaces, Baire.
@DanielFischer DERP =)
@PedroTamaroff I see.
@MattN. As you can see, the names are pretty misleading!!
Yes.
So you have not had linear algebra?
Analisis I is Inverse and Implicit functoin theorem, Lagrange Multipliers that stuff, plus the essentials of Calculus, like the theorems of Spivak in Chapter 7 IIRC.
Analisis II is Green, Stokes', Gauss and ODEs.
@MattN. Yes, didn't I list it above?
I even sat for the final exam, which I did not in Analysis II.
11:44
@PedroTamaroff Oops, sorry, you did! Missed it.
@PedroTamaroff I can relate. I didn't like ODEs either. Luckily, we didn't see much of it.
@MattN. Yeah, it was a cool course.
@DanielFischer Ah, then one should be specific, yes? Product of two disjoint transpositions.
@MattN. What are you doing?
Do you, as of now, have any particular interests? Like for example, do you think you will eventually take courses like commutative algebra, algebraic geometry and that kind of thing or more likely functional analysis and stuff or something else?
@PedroTamaroff Sitting and chatting : ) On a serious note: nothing at the moment. I have applied for an MSc's and now I am waiting for the result.
@MattN. You know I am more of an analysis guy, but I am trying to learn more algebra. At the moment I am studying Group Theory, using Dummit and Foote, Hungerford, and an itty bit of Lang. Trying to squeeze those dry. =)
I would be very interested in fields where algebra and analysis cross.
Dummit and Foote is a classic I think but I don't know it. Is it acceptable?
I guess it is fine. It has a good deal of exercises.
Which is basically what I am looking for.
11:49
That sounds good.
Yeah.
What will you specialize in the MSc?
I don't know yet.
Any interests?
Many. But I'm so slow that I think I will die before I can study all the books I want to study.
For now I decided I should learn some more functional analysis.
11:51
I bought Kreyszig 2 years ago but have not had the time to go through it.
I am planning to read it this year.
But have not started.
Then I'm also attending a regular informal meeting about set theory.
Though, this week has been canceled so it's not that regular, I guess.
Ah, I so want to take a good course on set theory.
I mean an advanced one.
With ZF and all that. =P
Yes, I thought you might mean advanced.
There aren't that many set theory courses, or at least not that I have seen. What about where you are now?
I should kidnap Asaf and make him teach me.
3
MUAHAHAHAHA
@MattN. UBA doesn't have a regular course, but every now and then an optional course. It does have a course on logic and computability.

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