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00:03
so here's what i don't understand
how can we compute divided differences from points that aren't distinct
e.g. i'm asked to find $f[0,0,1,1,1,2]$ for $f(x)=x^5$, but the recursive formula isn't going to work if i've got stuff like $0-0$ in the denominator.
@TedShifrin done, thanks.
@N3buchadnezzar hey, I think I've developed a new class of integrals ...
$$\int_0^1 \frac{\sin(\log(x)) (1-\sqrt{x})}{\log(x)} \ dx$$
00:31
Hey guys....can you help me solve: y'' + 2y' + 5y = g(t) ; y'(0) = y(0) = 0 (generally for any function, g(t).)
?
@JakeShellman let $u$ and $v$ be numbers such that $-(u+v)=2$ and $uv=5$. Then by writing $z=y'-uy$, $$y''+2y'+5y=(y'-uy)'-v(y'-uy)=z'-vz=g(t)$$
@JakeShellman and then use a suitable exponential factor to solve the first order ODE and then the second one
00:47
@IanMateus I think I am supposed to use the Laplace Transform somehow....
I can't use reduction of order
Can Somebody give me a hint to prove Levy Metric satisfies triangle inequality.
@JakeShellman I'm not comfortable with Laplace yet
Okay...can anyone help ?
@Ted I can't bring myself to hit 'send'.
Hey guys....can you help me solve: y'' + 2y' + 5y = g(t) ; y'(0) = y(0) = 0 (generally for any function, g(t).)
00:56
Hai
@Mike maik?
Hi @Pedro
Got a solid B on my first art history exam
01:17
Hey guys....can you help me solve: y'' + 2y' + 5y = g(t) ; y'(0) = y(0) = 0 (generally for any function, g(t).)
pleaseseseses
First solve it for $g(t)=0$
using Laplace transform
oops forgot to say that
@Mike we need to use the Laplace Transform
so use it
Yo yo yo
still start with g=0
01:25
Homogeneous first
Characteristic equation and all
Meh never mind. This is what I get for not reading directions properly.
s^2Y(s) + 2sY(s) + 5Y(s) = G(s)
but now what
01:56
@TedShifrin I think I said something wrong
@jake solve for $\gamma$ and then take the inverse transform
errr $Y$ I mean
 
1 hour later…
03:14
anyone alive
?
Hi @danny I am alive but don't ask me math!
:(
@JasperLoy i need to ask :)
but about probability
@Danny You can always post your question here and someone will help.
yeah but everyone is probably asleep
no one is active
ex. you
03:28
hi there. I have a pretty simple question, a continuation of this question :
10
Q: Why is it legit to evaluate $\lim_{x\rightarrow 1} \frac{(x-1)(x+1)}{x-1}$ by cancelling common factors?

crfI haven't ever taken an analysis course, so maybe that's where I would really learn this, but I've always wondered why it's okay to do this when evaluating a limit. I guess it's the case that there is a theorem which says that the limit of a rational function as $x\rightarrow a$ is equal to the l...

I understand how it is legit, from this coursera calculus course I'm taking, the lecturer says, both functions are not same but similar and when cancelling common factors you get a function defined where the original function was undefined.
However, it seems like black manage to me how removing common factors from a function results in a similar function without a hole ? $frac{(x-1)(x+1)}{x-1}$ = $frac{(x+1)}$
Is this always the case, when cancelling common factors of a function I get a function that plots a similar graph?
 
1 hour later…
04:33
@gideon whenever you cancel (x-a) from numerator and denominator of a rational function, you remove the removable singularity x=a from the graph (i.e. you fill in the "missing point"), and otherwise it is unchanged
thanks for your reply @anon may I ask what you mean by singularity ?
I see! Very interesting :D
@anon Offshoot question : the article says "Taking a power series expansion" looks a little like taylor series, are they the same thing power series/taylor series ?
usually. technically power series can be more general (for example, formal power series need not converge anywhere or define any function (they are used to encode combinatorial information, for example), you can have p-adic expansions etc.) and if you include negative powers you get Laurent series, not Taylor series
I see.
@anon can I bother you with one more thing :
If removable singularities did not exist, then will nullify the notion of the limit? I mean, then a limit of a function with just be what the function is at that point. ?
04:44
if a singularity is not removable then the function will not have a limit at that point
I see. Or I'll put it this way, if a function is always defined everywhere then it's limit as x -> a is just f(a) correct?
no, that means the function is continuous at a
"always defined everywhere" does not imply continuous
wait, you mean saying the limit as x -> a is just f(a) means the function is continuous?
it's the definition of "continuous at x=a"
I see.
ok, so forgive the ignorance I'm trying to learn calculus on my own. I'll tell you what the confusion is in my head, somehow I see the concept of a limit only standing for cases where there is this removable singularity, where you have to do something special. Otherwise the limit at x->a is f(a)
I'm seeing the limit as being something special only when there is a hole in the function and then yes it makes sense that although the function doesn't have a value there it's limit can exist.
but only when there is a hole. So does the whole limit thing harbour on the fact that there are holes in functions sometimes.
05:00
you can also take one-sided limits, or limits at infinity. these are ubiquitously useful for asymptotic analysis. also, limits can be nontrivial for a function at a place where it has a hole that has been "filled-in incorrectly" (for example consider f(x)=1 when |x|>0 and f(x)=0 when x=0).
you also need limits to define derivatives and integrals in the basic calculus sense
05:49
I see. In this case : f(x)=1 when |x|>0 where is the hole filled? The function isn't defined for x<0 right ?
Heh. No.
... :)
@gideon when is |x|>0?
for pretty much any number : |-5| |-1000| |1| etc ? right?
05:52
the only reason I used |x|>0 is because I didn't feel like using latex and =/= and =! are ugly
I should go.back to sleep.
@gideon right, you can't have negative absolute values. what about 0?
yes I mean |-5| is 5 which is >0
can you have |x|=0?
Ah I see. Yea, it isn't true for 0
05:54
yes, and that's the only number for which that's true. so what does the function look like?
ah. Yea. a hole at x=0 :)
but anon said has a hole that has been "filled-in incorrectly" what does that mean
the function is defined at x=0
so, the function is: f(x) = 1 when |x|>0 and f(x) = 0 when |x| = 0
look at the graph of the function and you should be able to figure out what I mean
so think about very small numbers. x=0.001, x=0.000001, x=0.000000001, etc.
for all those, f(x) = 1, because |x| > 0
but at x = 0, we have f(x) = 0.
and that works for both sides.... x=-0.001, x=-0.000001, x=-0.000000001, etc.
you'd think that f(0) should be 1, because you can get really close on either side and it's always 1, as close as you want. but we defined the function so that f(0) = 0.
05:59
f(x) = 1 when |x|>0 and f(x) = 0 when |x| = 0 doi! I read this as two different examples :/ sorry!
ok, I get it now!
@AlexanderGruber so you're saying the limit as x->0 is 1
@gideon right
the basic idea behind continuity is that behavior like that is kind of crappy, you don't want to be dealing with functions that just jump around unpredictably all of a sudden. if a function doesn't do that, we call it continuous, i.e. the value of the function is equal to its limit at every point. it's one way of saying it's a "nice" function.
06:17
hi
@AlexanderGruber I see.
@Mike Hai.
Insomnia kicked in.
You should see a doctor about that.
It is not a condition dude.
Thanks @AlexanderGruber @anon and @PedroTamaroff :)
06:28
I did sleep.
@PedroTamaroff I'm kidding.
@gideon yep
@gideon NP.
insomnia and mathematicianism are practically the same thing.
I was trying to do $G/C(G)$ cyclic $\implies G$ abelian in my head and I was so stuck. And then when I finally pulled out a pad of paper it was so easy.
I felt like a dingus
@PedroTamaroff =P?
06:31
@Mike ORLY?
@AlexanderGruber Yes.
@PedroTamaroff It's basically immediate.
@Mike How did you do it?
(I know a way.)
@AlexanderGruber I have a guide I think Mariano did to prove $A_n$ is simple.
Might go ahead and look at it.
@PedroTamaroff the inductive part's a pain
@PedroTamaroff Let $hC$ generate $G/C$.
the $A_5$ case is a pretty good sylow theory exercise
06:32
Then write $a=h^nc_1$, $b=h^mc_2$
for $c_1, c_2 \in C$
It's immediate that these commute, because a) associativity b) $c_1$ and $c_2$ commute with everything ever.
Boom.
Dude.
Don't be nuking my place.
Have some decency.
The whole time while walking and thinking I was like "Well, let's say I have an inner automorphism $\psi_h$ that generates the group of inner automorphisms..."
And then I felt so dumb because there's no need to be so fancy.
@Mike being fancy can lead to neat alternative proofs
@AlexanderGruber that's true (and i'd love to see them)
but that approach was not opening up such a proof to me
06:36
@AlexanderGruber I have three exercises for $S_n,A_n$ pending.
though i could have done the same proof in terms of inner automorphisms, but all i'd have to do is change my terminology
If $x,y$ are distinct three cycles in $S_4$ with $x\neq y^{-1}$, then $\langle x,y\rangle=A_4$.
@Mike hey i wonder if a cayley graph proof could work
So, of course it will be contained in $A_4$.
Thus it suffices I show it has at least $12$ elts.
@AlexanderGruber i don't know any geometric group theory
06:38
@Mike cayley graphs are real useful
you just draw how the group works using its generators
i believe it
i know one cayley graph.
if you've got a couple colored pens you can understand how certain groups work real easy that way
i can generalize it to an infinite family of 'em. but that one's seen plenty of use.
free groups
that's gotta be the cayley graph everyone should know
i always draw the dihedral group cayley graph
using the generator of the rotations, and a transpositio
Hmm, didn't know about Cayley graphs.
@PedroTamaroff When you do algebraic topology (or maybe in a first topology course) you'll see the Cayley graph for the free group on two generators
But that is some monstruous graph is it not?
Aww my dog is dreaming.
06:44
It's actually simpler than you might think
And it's very important :)
yop
except it doesn't stop after $a^4$ :p
Well, but that is incomplete. It should go on forever, yes?
yes
Fractalish?
06:48
honestly, it's better not to think of those as having increasingly smaller edges
it doesn't embed in euclidean space but you should think of each edge as having the exact same length
because then multiplying by $a$ is just 'shifting' the graph 'to the right' one
Good thing: my browser has decided to freeze everytime I enter 9gag.
@Mike Up for some exercises?
@PedroTamaroff I'm finishing up a few of my own before I stop and study for a midterm tomorrow.
Midterm?
Damn.
Here's one for you: it's easy to prove Cayley's theorem that every finite group is isomorphic to a subgroup of $S_n$ for some $n$.
06:52
But can you prove that every finite group is isomorphic to a subgroup of $A_n$?
Sure, take $A_{n+2}$ and embed $S_n$!
Damn, faster than I thought.
I haven't proven the even case for $S_{n-1}\not\subset A_n$ though.
You can do that with a nice counting argument.
06:57
Shall I spoil it for you? I don't remember the details, just the idea.
Pick a $2$-cycle in $S_{n-1}$ and count the number of elements it commutes with.
Now pick an element of order $2$ in $A_n$ and show that it can't commute with that many elements.
Cool.
I'll think about it.
Tell me about the details when you solve it. I vaguely remember it being harder than just that.
OK.
27 mins ago, by Pedro Tamaroff
If $x,y$ are distinct three cycles in $S_4$ with $x\neq y^{-1}$, then $\langle x,y\rangle=A_4$.
I was looking at that, actually.
07:16
So my amazon order was split into two packages, and one has arrived while the other is taking so long, wonder what is going on.
Maybe one of the ships broke down, lol.
Maybe it was taken by pirates.
Geezis, those pirates better not take my math books!
@JasperLoy I'm going to read Lee.
07:18
@Mike You mean his Smooth Manifolds?
Yeah.
John M. Lee, right?
@PedroTamaroff Downvoted.
Yes, correct. His other books are great too.
@Mike WAT.
STAHP.
07:20
But I don't like Jeffrey Lee's book, lol.
That's going -1,1,-1,1,-1,...
@PedroTamaroff Prove that $\mathbb Q^+$ is not isomorphic to $H \times K$ for two proper subgroups $H,K$.
@Mike OK.4
Let me think.
Do you know the theorem that gives conditions on $H$ and $K$ for them to give the group $G$ as their direct product?
Cuz that's what you wanna use.
I use Debian GNU/Linux, do you guys use Windows or sth else?
I still think Windows is the best, it's just not free of charge...
07:25
@JasperLoy What other Lee have you read? Topological manifolds?
@Mike $H,K\lhd G$, $HK=G$, $H\cap K=1$.
@PedroTamaroff That's the one.
@Mike I have browsed through many books but not really read any. I intend to study my nine holy books to prepare for the quals.
List them again for me.
Cohn: Classic Algebra, Basic Algebra, Further Algebra; Rudin: Mathematical Analysis, Real and Complex Analysis, Functional Analysis; Lee: Topological Manifolds, Smooth Manifolds, Riemannian Manifolds
07:27
That is far more analysis than you'd need for quals, FYI
I don't know if that's more algebra than you'd need.
Well, it really depends on which quals.
They cover most of the stuff in most quals, plus minus a little.
Well, your oral qual is to show that you're ready to do research full time.
But the entrance-type quals will definitely not need anything from FA.
That book is heavy-duty.
Anyway, this time I got from amazon the hardback versions of my holy books essentially.
Well, I have a serious objection to Cohn's "Further Algebra".
07:29
I am still waiting for the second edition of Riemannian Manifolds, which Lee says will be out earliest end of this year.
What objection is it?
The cover is really ugly.
Ah, I see, lol.
Now why did I choose these nine books? Because I have thought about which books to use for many years...
I wanted one person to take care of all algebra, one for analysis, and one for geometry-topology.
@PedroTamaroff If $G$ has a proper subgroup of finite index, prove that it has a proper normal subgroup of finite index.
I wanted all the big theorems to be covered, and my nine books is the unique solution to the problem.
@Mike Really?
07:32
@JasperLoy To prepare for quals, you should read Lars Hörmander's "The Analysis of Linear Partial Differential Operators I-IV"
@PedroTamaroff Is it really true, you mean? Or are you asking me if I'm really asking that because it's so trivial?
@Mike Haha, I am not too interested in PDEs, though that might change when I ultimately get into Riemannian geometry.
@JasperLoy Every grad school will expect you to know those four books from cover to cover.
@Mike Hehe, I was thinking the first, but now the second.
@PedroTamaroff I'm still thinking about it. :P
@Mike Don't lie to me, lol. Anyway, let me tell you which PDE books I think are the best. Taylor's PDE Vol 1,2,3.
07:34
@Mike Cannot we take $G$ a finite simple group with proper subgroups?
@PedroTamaroff No, I define proper just to mean $\neq G$
Well, yeah.
Taylor's PDE books are so hard that I would need to read the 9 books cover to cover to begin reading them, lol.
If $G$ is finite we can trivially take $H = 1$.
Oh.
Damn you.
That's a silly convention.
Proper nontrivial.
C'mon!
07:35
Well, I don't mean that.
Fine, if $G$ has a subgroup $H \neq G$ of finite index, then it has a normal subgroup $\neq G$ of finite index.
Simple groups are a good point, though, since it shows we can't do certain various trivial ideas, like "intersection of all normal subgroups containing $H$" (since in a simple group this will just be $G$).
@mike Let me tell you the most difficult book I have come across: Federer's Geometric Measure Theory, lol.
It might take a day to read one page, it is too concentrated.
Well, tennis and math don't mix.
Hmm.
I've got nothing on this so far.
But if you allow $1\lhd G$; everything is trivial.
And if you don't, it is not true.
At least for finite groups.
That is.
07:46
I do allow that. But finite groups are not the hard part.
Hi @matt, long time!
Remember that the question specifically says "finite index", so the focus is on infinite groups from the start.
Hi there.
Yes.
How have you been?
Well, my OCD is still bad, and I am still on meds.
I see.
And how's the study going?
I didn't know you had OCD and that you had to take meds because of that.
07:48
hints:
intersection of finitely many finite-index subgroups has finite-index
compute # conjugates of H to be finite (orbit-stabilizer, etc.)
@Mike @PedroTamaroff
@MattN. I have not started studying, I am waiting till I get better, and I don't know when that will happen.
@anon ah, there we go. that makes it obvious.
@JasperLoy I see. I'm sorry to hear that your situation has not improved.
Now I have to cart the cats to vet for vaccinations.
i knew there were finitely many conjugates but for whatever reason i didn't think to intersect them.
@MattN. Have you finished your Masters?
07:50
@JasperLoy No!
I'll see you later!
@MattN. OK, good luck to you! Hope you become a great mathematician some day!
Thank you, that's nice of you! I wish that to you too!
one week from now it will be a whole year since the last liar game chapter was posted
:annoyed:
@MattN. Dude!
You haven't been around like forever.
Aaaaand he's gone.
@anon What's that?
a "game theory" manga
(scare quotes)
07:55
I watched the drama series @anon.
doubt I'd like the drama series
is that the one with the rabbit
The actress is hot!
some things just cannot be taken seriously in live action form
if so, i'd just like to remind everyone here that mafia is a bad game for bad people with bad taste
07:56
Oh. The one about the guy that can realize when someone is lying?
Is it that one?
haha, I liked mafia
this is not a value judgement. this is a fact
is there really a rabbit in liar game?
i vaguely remembered it from reading it a long time ago
I am amazed by the impact of Flappy Bird.
07:57
that the covers had a rabbit on it
The guy received death threats.
ah, no, that's not it
I was hoping Nintendo sued the guy.

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