« first day (1286 days earlier)      last day (4029 days later) » 

20:07
@Mike I'm supposed to find $8$ motions of order $3$, but I am managed to find $4$ only.
Namely, take the center of a face and rotate by $120$ degrees.
Oh, the inverse of this.
Duh.
You did it!
@rob
@robjohn MLE = Maximum Likelihood Estimator
But I think I got my answer.
@Mike Also.
Say I label the vertices of the tet $1,2,3,4$.
Then it is immediate the rigid motions are a subgroup of $S_4$.
@PedroTamaroff are you rolling four-sided dice again?
@robjohn When did I do that? Did you get me wasted and take me gambling?
20:15
can someone explain to me where the 1/2 came from I got everything else right
@PedroTamaroff all this talkin' of rotatin' tets...
the bootom square is what I got, the top square is where i have soemthign diferent
@Vader since $u=2x$, $\mathrm{d}x=\frac12\mathrm{d}u$
Geez, I'm so sleepy ... (I can't work any more on things)
@Chris'ssis have you been watching Olympics instead of sleeping?
20:18
I am still confused why can't dx stay as 2dx?
@robjohn do you think embedding of $X$ in its double dual $X''$ is closed ?
@robjohn No, I didn't watch at all, I only worked on different things.
wait I think I got it now
its like there is a 1* in front and we need it to be 2
@Vader It can, but then you have to use $e^{2x}\,\mathrm{d}x=\frac12\mathrm{d}(e^{2x}+5)$
thanks @robjohn that confused me
20:22
@Complexanalysis I would think so, but I'd have to think on it to be sure.
@robjohn let me know .
@Complexanalysis or you could work on it :-)
@robjohn yup , i will .
is it possible to find the integral of log(x) / x
using u-substitution?
if it was ln(x) it would be for sure
but this is just log
I think there might be a typo in my book
@robjohn yes thats true , due to isometry .
20:32
the derivative of f(x)=log(x) is 1/x, so you're integrating f(x)f'(x), which is half the derivative of f(x)^2
so, yes, u-sub with u=log(x)
@robjohn since the isometry preserves the distance , and the whole space $X$ is closed and is closed in $X''$ as well.
do you think the argument makes sense @robjohn
@anon is the the derivative of log(x) ---> 1 / (ln(10)*x)
in higher math we use log() for natural log. if you want base 10 it just changes the situation by a constant...
@robjohn I just made myself a cool tet. @Mike
@PedroTamaroff where?
@Complexanalysis That was why I said I would think so. :-)
@Complexanalysis So if it seems reasonable to you, that makes two of us :-)
20:42
@robjohn :D
@robjohn Hold on.
I need help finding the integral of log (x) / x
i got so far u = log(x) du = 1 / ln(10)*x I do not know what to do next
@robjohn
Now all this group theorin' will get easy.
20:46
where does is fit in?
@Vader log x is the natural logarithm!
note that d/dx (log x)=1/x, so you have, letting f(x) = log x a integral of f(x)f'(x)
Now, what is the derivative of f(x)^2 for any function f?
@PedroTamaroff how, my book clearly differentiates the natural logarithm by using ln
answer form the book
(ln 10) (log x)^2 /2 + c
Hmmm, I think I'll give this limit to some students $$\lim_{n\to\infty}\left(\frac{1+\sqrt[\large 2^2]{2!}+\sqrt[\large 3^2]{3!}+\cdots +\sqrt[\large n^2]{n!}}{n}\right)^\sqrt{n}$$
20:51
how does that answer make sense?
Can someone help me with the following question:

Consider the function f:R->R, f(x)=|x|^asin(1/x) for x=/=0, and 0 for x=0.

Find the values of a for which f is differentiable at 0.
where a>0.
I think it's true for any integer values of a, but i'm not sure whether there are any other values.
I mean integers greater than 1.
@Vader you already have the tools right in front of you! if u=log(x) and du=1/(ln10 * x) dx then can you rewrite log(x)/x dx in terms of u and du? it's very simple algebra!
you know log(x) is u, and you know dx/x is ln(10)*du, so log(x)/x dx = (ln10) udu
now integrate!
@PedroTamaroff very nice tet there
21:08
Can anyone give me a hint towards the following problem - in a polynomial ring R[X], is it possible for 1+X to be a product of two non-units? I suspect the answer is no, but I can't see a way of doing this (earlier in the question we had to show that 1+rX is unit iff r is nilpotent, but I don't see how this helps)
@Chris'ssis Is it not $1$?
@robjohn I don't even know (I mean I didn't compute it yet).
@robjohn it should be easy to compute. (let me check that)
@Chris'ssis I seem to come up with $\lim\limits_{n\to\infty}\exp\left(\frac{\log(n)^2}{2\sqrt{n}}\right)$
@robjohn Indeed. The limit is $1$.
@Chris'ssis good. I was hoping I didn't need to go back and check :-)
21:17
@robjohn hehe, it's OK. :-)
@Chris'ssis Chris do you have any examples where integration by parts is done easier by adding a constant?
$\int \log(x+1) \,\mathrm{d}x$ is easier by choosing $v = x+1$ instead of $v=x$ for a very elementary example.
@N3buchadnezzar I think I met last days such an example, but I don't remember it right now.
Geez, I need to break my phone ....
:-)
I know a few more examples, but they are well too elementary :p
I can not really find the general pattern
@robjohn I couldn't find what it means to say that set of continuous linear functionals are independent ?
@N3buchadnezzar Did you think of some nice examples of integration by parts in double integrals? :D
21:31
nah, but i know they exists!
@Chris'ssis But that is more a change of variable, making the jacobi pretty is it not ?
@N3buchadnezzar It's extremely powerful. (sorry, I'm very sleepy)
@robjohn does it mean that if we have family of continuous linear functionals say $f_1 , ..... , f_n$ , then they are independent if $a_1 f_1 +...... +a_n f_n = 0$ means $a_1=...= a_n=0$ for every x? , where x is the element of the space where $f_i's $ take the value.
@Chris'ssis Anyway
I think this is a somewhat nice concept that has not been explored througly enough ( atl least I have problems finding topics about it )
@PedroTamaroff dude, i love Die Antwoord. :p
@AlexanderGruber Just got both discs.
At first I didn't really like the girl, but she's fine.
21:38
Does anyone have any ideas about proving

$$\frac{\cos(t \arctan(\sqrt{x}))}{(1+x)^{t/2}}= \sum_{k \ge 0}\frac{\Gamma(t+2k)\Gamma(k+1)}{\Gamma(t)\Gamma(2k+1)}\frac{(-x)^k}{k!}$$?
@PedroTamaroff aghghghgh yolandi is too fine
i have a friend who looks just like her
Hehe, that's cool.
She has quite a particular look.
my girlfriend and i went to a club as die antwoord for halloween.
That's wicked.
Did you pick the look in FATTY BOOM BOOM?
@Alyosha Adopt a fetal position and cry profusely till you forget about it.
@PedroTamaroff naw, the one in this
21:43
@PedroTamaroff And let the supreme fascist get 10 points?
@AlexanderGruber You got the creepy stache?
Unthinkable.
@PedroTamaroff absolutely
@AlexanderGruber And she got the golden yoga pants?
@Alyosha Interesting.
21:43
@PedroTamaroff aaaaabsolutely. :P
we were going to take more pictures but a car wrecked into us afterwards, only one we have of the night is of us in neck braces
@Complexanalysis as far as I know
@AlexanderGruber DAAAAYYUUUUUM.
@Alyosha Does Ramanujan's master formula help? :-)
@Alyosha Who's the supreme fascist? =P
@Chris'ssis it would if I was integrating it, although I did find this in a pamphlet on RMT.
21:45
@Alyosha Yeah, it's called Ramanujan's master theorem.
@Alyosha Oh! Had forgotten about that.
I'm hoping there's more to it than using three Maclaurin expansions in succession then noting a pattern for the $x^n$ constant.
@AlexanderGruber Around 1:52 it seems she's talking in Russian or something.
@Alyosha Our world is empty without someone like Ramanujan. That guy should be cloned! :-(
@PedroTamaroff this is it btw, we had to remove some of the getup b/c we didnt think the ER people would be amused
@PedroTamaroff it's afrikaans (sp?)
21:47
Right, silly me.
@AlexanderGruber Oh my! I thought a car crashed near you, not into your car!
Sorry about that =/
Guess you're fine now? No sequels?
@Chris'ssis Doubt they had those facilities in the 1920s
Alternatively, he could have procreated like rabbits until he had a Bernouli-like family of mathematicians.
@Alyosha hehe, right! :-)
@PedroTamaroff lol yeah we're okay, just whiplash for a few days.
Is there any consistent and omni-accepted notation for the rising and falling factorials?
@alexander that's the right spelling
22:05
@Alyosha Yes, Pochammer.
@PedroTamaroff Thanks, stupid thing I'm reading uses the falling for the rising factorial!
@PedroTamaroff is there a symbol for the double falling/rising factorial?
@Alyosha Hehe, that beats me.
@PedroTamaroff Oh well, I'll invent a better notation.
22:20
@KevinDriscoll in solving Laplace's Equation, what does Griffiths really mean by Fourier's Trick? He never explains it rigorously
@Astrum I'm not really sure. Does he jus tmean to take a Fourier Transform?
yeah, let me give an example
@AlexanderGruber I have a question.
@PedroTamaroff what's that
@Astrum Yeah an example problem with him applying the 'trick' would probably make it obvious
22:22
if we have $$V(0,y) = \sum ^{\infty}_{n=1} C_n \sin(n\pi y/a) = V_0 (y)$$ we multiply by $\sin (n' \pi y/a)$ on each side and integrating with respect to $y$
I already proved the group of rigid motions of the tet is iso to $A_4$, it was cool. Now, I was given the lattice of subgroups of $A_4$ and I have to prove that lattice is correct. So I want to prove the following: if $\tau,\sigma$ are a two cycle and a three cycle in $A_4$ they generate the whole group.
I can easily find out what the subgroups of order 2,3 are.
I have proven it has no subgroup of order 6.
so $$\sum ^{\infty}_{n=1} C_n \int ^a _0 \sin(n\pi y/a) \sin(n'\pi y/a)dy= \int ^a _0V_0 (y)\sin(n'\pi y/a)dy$$
@Astrum Ya that is just exploiting the fact that the trig functions form an orthonormal basis for functions on $\mathbb{R}$
All I have to show is there is a unique subgroup of order 4, which I could do using Sylow, since it is normal and a Sylow 2-subgroup, and that any other subgroup is that or either all A_4, @AlexanderGruber
well, we get a weird answer out of it
yeah, he mentions the orthogonality
I'm working on a problem right now, let me see how it goes
Laplace's Equation has always been the hardest part of EM for me...
stupid DEs
22:26
@Astrum So, the general idea is this. Solutions of Laplace's equation are by definition 'harmonic functions' and so the sines and cosines of integer frequencies form an orthonormal basis for these solutions
So we can replace ANY solution and ANY appropriate boundary condition by its Fourier series
and then instead of solving a Differential Equation, we need only to solve an algebraic equation for the Fourier coefficients
@PedroTamaroff where does the 2 cycle get sent to?
by conjugating by a generator of the $3$ cycle
yeah, but when we get into the Fourier analysis, I get confused, I don't think he explains it very well
Same thing with his QM text
I think I understand it conceptually, it's doing it that I get caught up
@Astrum are you more comfortable with basic linear algebra?
Yeah, I just finished Axler's LA
@Kevin Are you a student or a professor?
22:29
@AlexanderGruber It gets sent to a 2 cycle.
@Mike I'm a PhD student in physics
still a bit shaky on the theoretical side of complex operators, but I think I've got a pretty decent grasp of the basics
@PedroTamaroff and then if you conjugate again, you get another $2$ cycle, distinct from the first two
Wait, derp. I mean (12)(34),(13)(24),(14)(23)
sure- in any case, it's an element of order $2$
22:31
@Astrum Okay. Do you find you're getting stucking on doing the integrals/algebra required to find the fourier coefficients, or is it the process of finding them that's messing you up?
so if $\tau$ is your order $2$ element, $C_3=\langle a\rangle$ normalizes $\langle \tau, \tau^a, \tau^{a^2}\rangle$
I think it's the process of finding them
let me work oit this example to see if I can do it, gimmie a couple minutes
problem 3.12 if you're curious
the latter group's your $V$, so the group is $V\rtimes C_3$ - and that's all the room there is in a group of order 12
@AlexanderGruber Waaaait, what about dis.
@Astrum okay no problem. If you continue having issues maybe I can connet what you're doing here with basic linear algebra in finite dimensions and it might be more clear
22:32
If it contains an elt of order 2 and an elt of order 3, the group has order divisible by 6.
Hence it is all of 12.
Since no subgroups of order 6.
Ta-da.
@PedroTamaroff yeah, that'll work
And I also proved $A_4$ is not simple.
Yay.
I have a series for $S_4$, $1\lhd C_2 \lhd V_4\lhd A_4\lhd S_4$.
Right?
This proves $S_4$ is solvable since every factor is iso to $C_2$.
@AlexanderGruber
@Pedro Sounds like black magic to me!
@PedroTamaroff yes
CONFETTI
22:41
@KevinDriscoll I'm a bit confused about setting up the boundary conditions...
you don't even need the first $C_2$ in there, either, since $V$ is abelian already
@AlexanderGruber True, I was trying to get a comp. series.
@Astrum Problem 3.12?
@KevinDriscoll let me try something different, but yeah, that's the problem
@AlexanderGruber LOL, I did 7,8,9,10 from section 3.5 in D&F in one move.
Now I have to prove S_4 has no subgroup iso to Q_8.
22:50
@Astrum Ah okay so its quite similar to the example, except that the boundary condition is different
@KevinDriscoll ok, I think I might have it
@KevinDriscoll the integral for $$\int ^a _{a/2} \sin ^2 (n\pi y/a) dy$$ comes out really messy....
my idea was to find the potential due to each strip of metal and add the resulting Fourier series
I got the first one for $[0,a/2)$
so you solved laplace equation for the domain all of x and y from 0 to a/2? @Astrum
22:59
yeah
I got a messy expression, but I think it's all right
I did that integral. It isn't that bad.
lol, let me double check
@Astrum Start with a change of variables.
$$\frac{a}{4 \pi n} (n \pi + \sin{n \pi} - \sin{2 n \pi})$$
which can obviously be simplified for integer n
yeah, ok, I see
23:01
@KevinDriscoll Last summand is zero.
Second summand is also zero.
So it is all $a/4$.
@Pedro was trying not to give it away!
Oh, sorry.
these things are usually not totally elementary to someone doing solutions of Laplace equation for the first time
hang on, I'm confused...
@KevinDriscoll Yep.
23:03
$\sin2n\pi$ is zero because of the $n$, right?
well, the 2
@Astrum Yes
so for the second integral
I get $4V_0 / n\pi$?!?!
that's exactly the same as for $[0,a]$
oh no, wait
$8V_0/n\pi$
Hey :)
Scilab or Octave?
@Astrum when you get a full solution, type it out
23:10
@KevinDriscoll do you have the solution manual to check?
@Astrum nope'
@PedroTamaroff What gives?
I think have it online, let me see
@DanielFischer I have to prove S_4 has no subgroup iso to Q_8.
@Astrum but we can easily check that your solution satisfies Laplace's Equations and the boundary conditions
@Astrum no need for a manual
23:11
I proved quite a lot of stuff just now! @DanielFischer
Quite a lot of work on A_4 lately.
Well, dunno if a lot but significant.
Proved iso to motions of a tet, found lattice of subgroups, proved twas solvable, as is S_4, and found the unique group of order 4 is normal and iso to V_4
@PedroTamaroff Okay, take an element $c$ of order $4$ of $S_4$. Consider its square. Try writing it as the square of two other elements of order $4$, not being $c^{-1}$ either, and fail. Deduce there is no such subgroup ;)
If I have a function which depends explicitly on some variable $x$ and a parameter $\beta$ will and asymptotic expansions of the form $f(x,\beta) = \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{c_n(x)}{\beta^n}, \beta \to \infty$ necessarily be unique?
@DanielFischer Also, showed any subgroup containing an elt of order 2 and one of order 3 is all of A_4
@DanielFischer OK.
@PedroTamaroff Nah, look at the Sylow-2 subgroup(s).
@DanielFischer ?
Ah, Q_8 you mean look a Sylows of Q_8?
23:15
@PedroTamaroff No, Sylows of $S_4$.
@DanielFischer I have!
But I don't know what we're talking about.
@DanielFischer Oh.
@DanielFischer You're changing your hint?
@PedroTamaroff All subgroups of order $8$ of $S_4$ are isomorphic.
So look at one, conclude it's not the quaternion group, and have a cup of tea.
@DanielFischer Right, because Sylow.
The book didn't get to those, though. But sure, I'll use them.
Yes, incredibly useful guy.
@KevinDriscoll well, here it is: $$V_1 (x,y) = \frac{8 V_0}{\pi} \sum _{n=1,3,5...} \frac{\sin ^3 (n\pi /4)}{n} e^{-n\pi x/a}$$ is for the first potential, the one from 0 ---> a/2
23:18
Also, Lang has an awesome proof of Sylows theorems. It is very neatly organized, very illuminating.
And makes it look easy, really.
Sometimes Jacobson isn't that insightful.
@Astrum don't forget that your potential must be continuous, so you have to match the 2 solutions at $ y = a/2$
Can't judge that, never read Jacobson.
let me get the second one down too @KevinDriscoll
@Astrum I think your solution is missing a $y$ somewhere
oops, yesah, in the $\sin$
I'll rewrite it with the other solution
23:22
@DanielFischer I think $\langle (1234),(12)\rangle$ has order $8$.
@DanielFischer I am wrong.
@KevinDriscoll $$V_1 (x,y) = \frac{8 V_0}{\pi}\left( \sum _{n=1,3,5...} \frac{\sin ^2 (n\pi y/4) \sin (n\pi y/a)}{n} e^{-n\pi x/a} -\sum _{n=1,3,5...} \frac{\sin (n\pi y /a)}{n} e^{-n\pi x/a}\right)$$

I think I made a mistake somewhere
@Astrum you can't just add the two
@Astrum they ahve different domains of validity
...
and you need to enforce their continuity at $y=a/2$
perhaps I need to rework the problem
23:28
that is you solved one for $[0,a/2)$ and one for $(a/2,a]$
@PedroTamaroff You can start with the Klein $4$-group.
but let me get the idea here. If the potential obeys superposition, why can't we just add them?
@DanielFischer Ah, yes, and multiply by $C_2$ say.
@Astrum you didnt solve the potential int he whole space, from what you sAID
@PedroTamaroff No, add an element of order $4$ and see what you get.
23:29
@Astrum you found one solution when $y<a/2$ so you can fit the constant boundary condition
@Astrum and another when $y>a/2$ with a different constant boundary condition
what do you mean "constant boundary condition"?
@Astrum Fromt he way you described how you did the problem, you found one solution for the region where the BC is V(0) = V0 and another one for the region where V(0)=-V0
@DanielFischer Why should I do that?
@Astrum or is that not what you did? You solved it int he whole space?
yeah, each for the boundaries $[0,a/2]$ for $=v_0$ and $[a/2,a]$ for $-V_0$
23:31
@Astrum okay so you have 2 solutions
yeah
@Astrum but they arent valid in the same regions
oh
I see
@One is valid for $y<a/2$
and the other for $y>a/2$
@PedroTamaroff Because an element of order $4$ belongs to some Sylow-2 subgroup. Since all such are isomorphic, every Sylow-2 subgroup contains elements of order $4$. The Klein group has none, so you need some.
23:32
so what's the proper way to solve this, then?
its fine though, becuase you can 'sew together' a full solution by requiring that the 2 solutions you found agree at $y=a/2$
and how does one do that?
@DanielFischer OK. I am just trying to see what I can do not to get too many elts.
My example clearly has more than $8$.
@Astrum okay, suppose you have the GENERAL solutions (ie no boundary condition imposed yet) for $y<a/2$ and $y>a/2$
Hello, I miss you
23:33
Call the first $V_1(x,y)$ and the second $V_2(x,y)$
@Astrum Since $V_1$ is valid in a domain containing 0, you should impose the boundary condition that $V_1(x,0)=0$ (but do NOT do the same thing for $V_2$ because that solution isn't valid near 0
@Astrum then since $V_2$ is valid on the domain containing $a$ you would impose the boundary condition $V_2(x,a)=0$
@Astrum Then we can enforce the BCs that $V_1(0,y)=V_0$ $V_2(0,y)=-V_0$
so you mean to start with the very beginning with $V_n (x,y) = (Ae^{kx}+Be^{-kx})(C\sin ky + D \cos ky)$
@Astrum ya thats the general solution
ok, let me carefully rework the problem
23:37
@Astrum Then finally you will find that you have 1 free coefficient still available after applying the boundary condition appropriate for $V_1$ and $V_2$
ok, I get that, so one last thing that confuses me
and that will fully specify the solution
@Astrum and you can fix that last coefficient by requiring that $V_1(x,a/2) = V_2(x,a/2)$
and you'll get some piecewise continuous solution
at $y=a/2$, what's going on there? If we have two strips of metal, it can't be continuous
@Astrum Well, at $x=0$ its clearly not continuous
But everywher elese itll be continuous
ok
back in a bit, hopefully with the right answer
23:40
Conceptually you'll have to imagine that we ahve a tiny tiny piece of insulation at $x=0$ so that the two strips of metal at differnt voltages don't actually touch
otherwise current would flow and ruin our boundary conditions
does this stuff actually have any use? Other than an exercise to teach how to solve Laplace's Equation, I feel like this is never actually used
@Astrum Ummm what do you count as a 'use?'
If you're doing basically ANY kind of physics research understanding how to solve differential equations (both numerically and analytically when possible) is VERY important
you are basically doing it all the time
So this particular example fo how to solve Laplace's equation with constant boundary conditions isn't very practical int erms of real experiments and cutting-edge theory
But the concepts of how to solve ODEs using boundary conditions and symmetry and Fourier analysis is SUPER important
@KevinDriscoll gotcha
@robjohn are u busy?
@Kevin Did you do physics research as an undergrad?
23:52
@Mike Yes, but onyl my senior year
@PedroTamaroff Hmm, With Klein and $(1234)$, I find only $8$ elements, as expected.
@Mike I should've done more, especially during the summer
@KevinDriscoll A good friend of mine is, relatively late in his undergrad career, looking into doing that stuff. But his background is pretty weak.
How did you get into it?
@DanielFischer Right, because $|C_4\cap V_4|=2$
Good!
@Mike I would say I also had a somewhat weak resume going into my senior year. GPA near 3.0, no research experience
@Mike But I studied quite dilligently for the physics GRE and got some experience, etc
23:54
@KevinDriscoll That's good to hear.
@Mike Well for summer work there are a lot of positions advertised as Research Experience for Undergraduates
Can you still get into that even if most of your study is self-study?
@Mike And then during the school year its all about independent study; you gotta find a professor and talk to them and work with them
(For reference with 'weak background', he's a junior now (sort of), is taking special relativity and linear algebra)
to boundaries for the first strip should be

V=0 when y=0
V= V_1 = V_2 when y=a/2
V--->0 as x---> infinity

How can we solve it with only 3 BC...
23:56
@Mike It depends. I don't know what kind of general requirements they might have. But the work itself is going to be focused kind of grunt work. Something not too conceptually difficult that you can learn in your time on the job without a lot of specifici background.
@Astrum You also have condition for when x=0
@Astrum also, V_2 = 0 when y=a
this is for the first one though, so I'm not considering y=a
@Astrum Ah ya so for V_1 you have 4 BCs. V1=0 as x-> infinity
I thought that I couldn't say that V= V_1 when x=0 because it can also equal V_2 at this
@Astrum V1=V2 at y=a/2 V1=0 at y=0 and V1=V0 at x=0
@Astrum Ah yeah its really two condiitons. $V_1(0,y) = V_0$ and $V_1(x,a/2) = V_2(x,a/2)$ when $x \neq 0$

« first day (1286 days earlier)      last day (4029 days later) »