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13:00
Okay, before I post, just look at my profile 'about me' a bit, and scroll down to below.
Really, I'll give it a shot.
Interested?
@BalarkaSen: You want me to join MMF?
@Nick And participate in Q&A.
...Oh! MMF
13:02
?
I accidently joined MFF
Have you read the Q&A part?
Are you interested? (repeat)
Yes, yes I am.
:D
Then join and notify in the Area 51 thread.
By posting something like " I am in "
@Nick Now, for the problem
Yay!
13:04
Find a polynomial f(x) with all coefficients in {0, 1, ..., 9} such that f(2) is prime but f(x) is reducible i.e., f(x) = g(x)h(x) with g, h in of integer coefficients.
@Nick Why so joy?
I am dying trying to approach it.
I can make f(1) prime, that's a simple matter. What about f(2)?
Give me the example of f(1) being prime
$f(x) = x^5 + x + 1 = (x^2 + x + 1)(x^3 - x^2 + 1)$
So many thing I tried. I feel like a banach analytic manifold.
Hey @Nick, welcome to the forums.
@BalarkaSen: Thank you, mathbalarka
@Nick Welcome, welcome.
@BalarkaSen: Dang, I don't know how to begin to answer that question
13:10
Introduce yourself if interested. Just give a description so that we can believe you are a human. You can help anyone there. Leave a note at the Area 51 post so that we can know about you participating.
Also, note that for the time being you'll be unable to edit posts (anti-spam measure) unless you have enough post count.
... I did something, I guess?
@BalarkaSen: When a philosopher says something that is true then it is trivial.
When he says something that is not trivial then it is false.
XD
@Nick Xenophilleas Dudley, I mean. XD
@BalarkaSen: The Editor of The Quibbler magazine?
@Nick That's someone else I meant.
Whatevs O-o
13:18
Dedekind did a nice job constructing the reals using cuts
@saadtaame I hate cuts.
@BalarkaSen: What the heck was it that you were telling me about negative logs once upon a time?
@BalarkaSen Why?
@Nick Those are different branch cuts.
@saadtaame Godknows.
What do you like?
13:20
Number theory mostly.
Favorite theorem?
@BalarkaSen: Ok, I have friends (random people) asking me why negative logs aren't defined. Just tell me what I should tell them.
It's not negative logs that aren't defined, it's logs of negative numbers.
@saadtaame Well, I have to think about it. I never thought about it before.
@Nick They are defined.
Tell them $\lim_{x\to - \infty} \log x=0$
13:22
@BalarkaSen: In the reals?
@saadtaame False, of course.
@Nick No.
@BalarkaSen ?
Log(z) = ln(z) + i(theta) ... something like that?
what is that?
13:23
@BalarkaSen He is talking about the reals
What is what?
@saadtaame ??
@BalarkaSen What is false?
What is not true?
2 mins ago, by saadtaame
Tell them $\lim_{x\to - \infty} \log x=0$
Oh, as $x$ approaches $0^+$
Picture twisted
13:25
Still untrue.
Oh, that formula comes directly out of z = r·e^{iθ}
It has a pole at $x = 0$
@Nick Yep.
But is multiple valued.
This is mainly because analytic continuation isn't unique.
@BalarkaSen: Give me an example of that multivaluedness please
$\log(-1) = \pi i$ and $\log(-1) = 2\pi i $ both.
Take logs and see why.
Oh
Hey but wait!
Google is telling me something wierd
log(-1) = 1.36437635 i
Where did it get that?
@BalarkaSen: branch cut?
13:29
Some weird branch I guess.
@Nick Are you familiar with analytic continuation?
@BalarkaSen: As much as you are familiar with the ideal gas equation.
@Nick Are you interested in a brief explanation?
Yes
Visualize this : you have regions $D_1$ and $D_2$, overlapping $D$, not necessarily the whole $D_1 \cap D_2$, but $D \cap D_1 \cap D_2$ is nonnull.(say)
ok
13:34
Now let $f$ be analytic in $D$.
no, you lost me
@Nick What no?
What is an analytic?
Oh.
Well, analytic in $D$ means that for exists every point $\alpha \in D$ such that the Taylor expansion on that neighborhood exists.
ok, I follow
13:40
Yes, now define $f_1$ to be $f$ in the region $D_1$.
And similar for $f_2$
ok, ok, go on.
@saadtaame: $\lim_{x\to 0^{+}} \log x= - \infty$ , right?
Note that $f_1$ and $f_2$ analytic implies $f_1 - f_2$ (proof is tiresome but you can see this one). is analytic in $D_1 \cap D_2$.
@Nick $-\infty + \pi i$
O_O ... ok
$f_1 - f_2$ is $0$ in $D_1 \cap D_2 \cap D$
Obvious, right?
Phi is obvious
but go on
13:46
$f = f_1 = f_2$ in that region, note that.
oh
ohk
Now identity theorem then gives this is 0 entirely on $D_1 \cap D_2$
Complex analysis! Fun fun.
@BalarkaSen: I'm beginning to think that you enjoy blowing my mind
I want you to see where iniquity destroys. Surely through this process of continuation $f_1 = f_2$ but why logarithm has different branches then?
13:53
no clue
$D \cap D_1 \cap D_2 = \null$ for this case
ok... so, what does that mean for the log()?
@BalarkaSen Surely just let $f(x)=h(x)g(x)$ such that $h(2)$ is prime, $g(2)=1$?
@Alyosha Find a example.
See what happens.
The coefficients never behave well?
13:57
Nonnegative coefficients.
In {0, ..., 9}
@Nick $f_1 \neq f_2$
In the region of interest at least.
Which is where branches pop up.
I see
Fun thing analytic continuation is.
Having the function at a single domain can let you continue it throughout the vast complex plane.
I have to honest with you, I won't be able to fully appreciate the beauty of this until I start with complex analysis.
You do not necessarily have to have understanding of complex analysis to understand it.
Consider the $p$-series.
But it is very fascinating
14:02
Does it converge for $p \leq1$?
@BalarkaSen: wait no, if it's negative, it diverges
Right.
yay!
..It could converge for (0,1] right?
Now take the $\zeta$-definition of $p$-series
@Nick No. Prove it!
@BalarkaSen: p=1 would be a harmonic series... Yeah, I'm not good with this.
14:08
The $\zeta$-definition is $$p(s) = s\int_0^\infty \frac{\lfloor x \rfloor - x}{x^{s+1}}\tag{*}$$
You can find this to be precisely $$p(s) = \sum_{n=1}^\infty \frac{1}{n^s}$$
for $s > 1$
But $(*)$ also converges for $s > - 1$, except $s = 1$
oh, the riemann zeta function is it?
Yes.
That is how we extend Riemann zeta to the complex plane.
cool
That was indeed invigorating.
@BalarkaSen: Would you recommend some good reading material on your favorite subjects?
14:17
@Nick In number theory?
@BalarkaSen: I have so little good books and none of them in math.Just tell me something to give me a foundation
I have a weak foundation.
What is your favorite calculus book?
Use Hardy & Wright.
@skullpatrol I learned calc. from an infamous book =D
@BalarkaSen: Added to cart.
For kicks, use Crandall & Pomerance.
I enjoyed it.
14:22
What book did you lean algebra from?
@skullpatrol From nowhere.
I learned algebra myself.
@BalarkaSen: Really, at what age did you create the concept of the cubic equation?
@Nick 7 or 8, more or less.
@BalarkaSen Is this where you asked me?
@Sawarnik Correctamundo.
14:24
Oh, then I won't ask about arithmetic =D
@Nick 8 I think, precisely.
@Sawarnik Hey, Sawarnik. Where are you from?
@BalarkaSen: Something tells me your arithmetic is not my arithmetic.
@BalarkaSen 7 or 8! I think its some God given ability [sorry]. Well, I am not too far away, in Patna.
@Nick I am bad at word-formatted mathematics.
@Sawarnik Not really. I have seen people much much advanced than me.
There can be only ONE arithmetic
14:28
@BalarkaSen: no, I mean my notion of arithmetic is like basic operations. How did you learn algebra without basic operations?
@Nick Notion of arithmetic is to confuse people with confusing words.
I hate it.
At least if it's the same arithmetic we are talking about.
@BalarkaSen Someone must have tutored you at that stage. You mean you studied cubic equations when your mates were learning adding numbers. That is not ordinary, really un ordinary.
No, those are called word problems
@skullpatrol Okay, I see.
@BalarkaSen Have you been to IMO?
14:30
@Sawarnik My father helped me much.
@Sawarnik Nah. More kicking than thinking.
@skullpatrol: I looked it up. More than one. Ever heard of Finite field arithmetic? Yeah, it's different from the elementary arith that I'm think of
@Nick Hahaha.
Finite fields are what I like.
I am more field theorist than ring.
@nick like you said "basic operations"
@skullpatrol: Again, my basic is not your basic.
There can be only ONE basic
14:33
ZFC or PA?
=D
Elementary arithmetic and algebra.
@BalarkaSen Sorry, but I am still marveling at your intelligence. Do you have any advice for idiots like me?
How do you define elementary arithmetic? Peano?
@Sawarnik I am the village idiot here, not you dude.
Take advice from @Ian
He is the resident number theorist extraordinaire here.
@BalarkaSen: yes but your probably thinking more Dedekind–Peano than regular Peano.
Right.
DPA.
14:37
@BalarkaSen: That stands for Deutsche Presse-Agentur. Be careful with abreviations.
Re-arrange those, and you get ADP. Photosynthetical circle sucks.
@Nick Wat?
@BalarkaSen: I'm more suprised you know about Adenosine diphosphate!!
@BalarkaSen Hahahaha
@BalarkaSen: Then you must know that adenosine triphosphate is as important if not more.
14:39
Yes, I know ATP
@BalarkaSen: Are you going to go with bio-math in highschool?
Of course not.
Bio sucks.
@BalarkaSen: XD 90 years from now, you'll say the same thing.
Actually, I also know NADPH
NADP --> NADPH
etc.
Like I said. Photosynthetical circle sucks
@BalarkaSen: You have no idea what that stands for do you?
14:43
@Nick I have.
@BalarkaSen Most probably you would cheat from Wikipedia.
@Sawarnik I haven't. It's in my syllabus.
In 9th grade.
Nicotinamide adenine dinu(blah blah) phosphate
@BalarkaSen: CBSE or ICSE?
I think.
@Nick None.
@BalarkaSen: close enough.
@BalarkaSen: What do you mean none?
14:44
WBBSE
@BalarkaSen Then, Bengal board?
@BalarkaSen Oh. How is it, thinking of the pathetic situation of Bihar Board?
@BalarkaSen: That's gonna crush you when you're doing an entrance test.... that is, if your gonna take an entrance test.
@Sawarnik Darned bad.
14:47
@BalarkaSen: Where (which University) are you planning to go to ?
Harvard or Bordeaux II
@Nick MIT or Stanford will easily take him, if he wants, I think.
UCLA would also be nice.
Indeed they will
@Sawarnik I don't think.
Why removed?
I didn't saw that.
No fair.
14:51
@BalarkaSen: Privacy Act. Get used to it.
@BalarkaSen Why do not you change schools, why are you being wasted at state boards?
@Sawarnik Believe me, ISCE and CBSE are worse than WBBSE.
@Sawarnik: It's true. They only touch through the subject.
@BalarkaSen Why do you say so? Maybe you want to say that education system is bad (I agree though).
14:53
Yes.
@Nick Tragic would it be if you remove it now.
@Mike I give it to you: Hungeford is a cool lad.
If you want to be educated. Study by yourself.
@BalarkaSen: you're proof of that.
@Nick RH implies RH. QED
@Nick Agree. But if the schools leave me alone, my 10 projects and assignments are pending.
10 projects?
14:56
@BalarkaSen Yes, almost. My school is only concerned with them.
What project?
No syllabus is good or bad. It's the Institutions and teachers that magnify even the tiniest crumb of deficiency in the system.
Mathematics?
Oh, that reminds me, my seminar is pending :(
Dang, kids are gonna be upset.
@Nick Yeah, wat u gonna do bout that, eh?
14:57
@Nick Where are you from? And well in 8th grade, CBSE is still teaching how to add fractions, is that any good?
@Sawarnik How sad.
@BalarkaSen: No clue. There's just so much I wanna tell them. So much of it is boring in their level.
And WBBSE has given up with polynomial factorization, There will be no such problem in secondary
@Nick Teach them limits.
Have they been to algebra yet?
@BalarkaSen: I have to first teach myself limits. (result of CBSE)
@BalarkaSen: they're, as Sawarnik said, adding fractions.
@Nick Phffooot.
15:00
My aim is to get them interested in the subject.
Teach them about imaginary numbers then.
Or perhaps irrationals.
Yes, that'd be good.
@BalarkaSen Maybe half of students will fail on your advice.
Some numbers aren't fractions -- they'll love to learn this
@Balarka: I'll teach them about all the number systems
excludng Hypercomplex and above
15:03
@BalarkaSen Nobody in my class like maths, I completely blame the system.
Yes, that'd be nice.
Greetings
@Sawarnik why should we care about absolutely everyone? This prevents interested kids from learning many cool things
@Sawarnik So do I.
@Chris'ssis hello :-)
15:03
@Chris'ssis Greetings. I forgot Elvish.
@Sawarnik: To blame something, it must first exist.
@IanMateus Hi
@BalarkaSen Hi
Have you seen my new Euler sum answer, @Chris'ssis?
I created something cute today.
@BalarkaSen Which one?
3
A: How find this $\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\frac{H^3_{n}}{n+1}(-1)^{n+1}$

Balarka SenWe will use the combinatorial identity, which can be proved through induction $$\left(H_n^{(1)}\right)^3 - 3H^{(1)}_{n}H^{(2)}_{n} + 2H^{(3)}_{n} = \left [ n + 1 \atop 4\right] \frac{6}{(n-1)!}$$ Where the binomial-like notation of the right side is unsigned Stirling number. Multiplying by $x^n...

I am feeling proud I did that one.
But it's just a scratch on the surface
I know nothing of summation, so to speak.
15:05
@BalarkaSen good (+1)
Thanks you. I learned this from members of I&S
These kind of approach are discussed pretty much there.
I&S?
@Nick heh, beautiful punchline
Would upvoters care to read first and then upvote?
Yes, that's you @Nick.
@Chris'ssis I hope to learn both from you and @robjohn.
You guys (and girls) are awesome.
I still hate to think that you are a sis though.
@BalarkaSen :-)))))))))
15:09
I use to think mathematics should only be done by guys.
@BalarkaSen today I created a mind-blowing limit.
Please post.
It's too nice to be true!
@Nick See this
Look what a number theorist is doing for reputation. — Balarka Sen 28 secs ago
@BalarkaSen what's wrong with being a sis?
2
15:11
2 mins ago, by Balarka Sen
I use to think mathematics should only be done by guys.
DONT KILL ME!!
@BalarkaSen but why exactly?
@IanMateus Dunno. I think most girls are dumb.
SPARE MY LIVE!!
Hmm... most people are. That's not about being a girl. That's statistics
@IanMateus True (thumbs up)
Why delete? It would be nice if it stayed there.
@BalarkaSen This is from a girl to you $$\lim_{n\to\infty}\frac{1}{n}\left(\int_n^{2n} 2^x \zeta(x) \ dx-\frac{2^n(2^n-1)}{\log(2)}\right)$$
15:19
OMG.
I created it to be amazing.
@Chris'ssis nice one! It is unfortunate girls live with feeling they have to "show something more" to be recognized, though
@balarka most girls are dumb, huh
@IanMateus :-))))
@Charlie GREAT CAT!!!! How is it going today? :-)
GREAT @chris I'm fine today, less dumb today
And you @chris ?
15:23
@Charlie I created a lot of stuff today, I was so productive. I'm glad to be so! :-)
Incredible :)
@Charlie ei, posso te mandar um email? Precisando de ajuda em matemática :-(
@ian se eu puder ajudar
I ran away, thought better of it, and came back.
15:25
You better run
And don't look back
@Charlie qual o teu email?
@IanMateus Khazad? (Dwarvish)
@Chris'ssis This is too hard for me to tackle.
(chicken run)
@BalarkaSen as I mentioned it is meant to be very beautiful not very hard.
I am thinking of eta, seeing that $2^x \zeta(x)$ term
@ian Você tem Facebook? Eu num posso apagar a mensagem nessa mobile version
15:32
@Charlie manda uma mensagem pra mim, [email protected]
Mandei
@ian eu não entendi.... você tem dúvidas em matemática.... Estamos no chat de matemática....
@Ian interested in doing some number theory?
@BalarkaSen spit it out
Given that $k^2+k+n$ is always prime for all positive integer $k$ in the interval $\left(0,(n/3)^{1/2}\right)$. Find the largest interval for which the same can be stated.
Do not use HST
(that does not mean Honolulu standard time, okay?)
Okay, there is no divisor $d\leq \sqrt{n/3}$ of $n$
15:43
@IanMateus I return to my "why"?
@BalarkaSen $d\lt \sqrt{n/3}$, sorry. No equality
Why?
Why so?
Suppose there is such $d$. Then it divides $d^2+d+n$
Okay.
My bad.
I have to refrain from doing too many things at a time.
Nevertheless, continue.
"The largest interval for which the same can be stated" the same what?
15:47
$k^2 + k + n$ is always prime in that interval.
Ah, okay. I'll think about it
Again, do not use HST
I don't even know what it means, so it is safe :D
@IanMateus Heegner Stark theorem.
I figured it would be nice of me to let you know about it.
See Rabinowitz' works on it, if you can't see the connection.
Okay, if $d$ is a divisor, then $n/d$ is a divisor. If there is no $d\lt \sqrt{n/3}$, then there is no $d'\gt n/\sqrt{n/3}=\sqrt{3n}$.
15:53
$n/d$ is a divisor? Why is that?
@BalarkaSen divisor of $n$: $n/n/d=d$
That means $(n/d)^2+n/d+n$ is composite, but $d/n$ is not in desired interval.
What do you want with that?
I know. If $p$ is a prime that divides $n$, then $\sqrt{n/3}\lt p\leq \sqrt{3n}$
Eating time.
I will give you a swift hint : Let $p$ divides $m^2 + m + d$. Then use Eratosthenes bound on prime factor.

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