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09:03
@Cerberus I fully agree. That's how we should be evaluating it and on that metric the machine isn't scoring consistently very high.
 
5 hours later…
14:11
@Adam Going through the examples again, it is now making sense to me. In short, I think, use quis and quid for questions, use quī and quod for adjectival use, including relative clauses. Does that sound correct?
@CannedMan Simpler: use qui/quod for everything, except substantive interrogative pronouns. (Using quis for adjectival interrogatives is possible but uncommon.)
Note also that interrogative pronouns can be used in direct and indirect questions.
I love seeing ‘substantive’ used in English, meaning ‘noun’, ‘noun-like’. Most English speakers do not know the word, but it is not dead, not yet.
@CannedMan Not dead, indeed!
What else can stand in opposition to adjectival?
cmw
cmw
14:30
@CannedMan I think it's fairly common among those who study the language (English or Latin).
The misuse of 'noun' I have only ever seen in English! Elsewhere it's always substantive or a translation thereof.
Isn't it?
cmw
cmw
15:18
@Cerberus Misuse?
French also has nom alongside substantif.
15:56
@cmw Oh, really? I never noticed that?
So we have French to blame?
They don't use nom adjectif?
cmw
cmw
@Cerberus I'm unsure what you mean.
@cmw Like noun adjective in English, bijvoeglijk naamwoord in Dutch?
cmw
cmw
@Cerberus People don't really say noun adjective in English anymore.
16:12
@cmw Some do, but what I meant was, don't the French use it?
16:40
@cmw The Finnish word for a noun is "substantiivi". It's a noun, not an adjective. It took me a while to learn to use the English word "noun", and many Finns seem to have the same struggle. Many Finns without linguistic education say "substantive" instead of "noun", as they're entirely unfamiliar with the word.
17:36
The Norwegian word for noun is ‘substantiv’. I find that most Norwegians who have acceptable English, do know that the English term is ‘noun’, but amongst those whose English is poor, I would expect them to say ‘substantive’ (maybe even stressing the first syllable, as per the Norwegian word).
 
1 hour later…
cmw
cmw
19:06
@Cerberus I think I misunderstood. I thought you meant the French use substantif instead of nom. I wasn't referring to adjectives.
@CannedMan It's also stressed on the first syllable in English.
Amusingly, substantial has the stress on the second syllable.
cmw
cmw
@Adam Nouns typically have a recessive accent in English. Consider address, record, or present.
Or attribute, for a 3-syllable example.
@cmw Whereas adjectives do not?
cmw
cmw
19:22
I can't think of a relevant example.
You're right, that's not what's going on with your example. Hm.
@Adam I'm familiar with this in verbs (like prodúce versus próduce), but not with adjectives. I'd be curious to see if adjectives do the same.
My natural inclination, which I've defeated, was to use the noun 'substantive' and the corresponding adjective 'substantival' (as 'adjective' and 'adjectival').
@Adam But 'substance' has it on the first. I'm not sure if that makes a good example, though.
 
1 hour later…
20:36
@Cerberus Have you ever seen The Visitors (1993)? I kinda imagine it would be like that :D

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