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cmw
cmw
00:06
@Adam Feel free to ask if you have any questions. If it gets to be too many, we can even create a new room for them.
00:43
@cmw Oh, nice, thanks! I'm sure I will have some.
 
16 hours later…
16:56
TIL about construct state. I was looking to understand why some words in the Akkadian dictionary include (m), whichh led to mimation, then what a construct is.
If I'm understanding correctly, the word kāru(m) (port) as a definite or indefinite noun would be kārum, but in a genitive construction like port of hope, it would be kāru along with whatever hope is in genitive case.
cmw
cmw
17:50
@Adam There's another way with Akkadian, actually.
Assuming that tukultum can also mean "hope" (though it's not an attested definition in Black, George, Postgate, which I'll abbreviate BGP), then you can also do kārum ša tukultim.
That's what Huehnergard introduces first. But in Chapter 8 he shows the normal way.
But I don't see the ending in -u.
It would be kār tukultim instead, with kār being in the construct form (which he also calls the bound form).
@cmw What form is kāru?
cmw
cmw
He gives the example bēl bītim, "owner of the house".
I haven't actually read past the very beginning of lesson 1; I just started googling to figure out what the (m) meant.
cmw
cmw
@Adam With a macron, nominative plural. Without a macron, I believe it's just a dialectal pronunciation.
Read the intro to BGP, p. xi
> Mimation (that is, the final -m of the nominative case ending) is ignored in the alphabetic ordering of the entries; this usually makes very little difference to the order, but note that the final -m of dative or loc.-adv. forms is observed.
> but note that the final -m of dative or loc.-adv. forms is observed.
That's still regarding the ordering of words, right?
cmw
cmw
18:05
@Adam So it's in parentheses because it's being ignored for the purpose of ordering.
You get your noun paradigm on the first page of chapter 2, so you can see how there's no short -u ending.
Ok. I'm sure it will make more sense to me once I've read further. I still haven't gotten the hard copy in the post yet and have just been perusing the PDF.
cmw
cmw
Oh, I was originally right!
p. 600
lol
cmw
cmw
Old Babylonian: wardum, Standard Babylonian: ardu, Middle Assyrian: urdu
Those latter ones are as different from the original as Medieval French is from Latin. Crazy it's considered "the same language".
@cmw page 600 of the grammar or of BGP?
cmw
cmw
18:12
Sorry, of Huehnergard!
no worries, I figured you meant that because my copy of BGP is only something like 400 pages
cmw
cmw
^Yeah, right. Same here.
450 on the nose.
I think the page numbering might have changed slightly between 2nd and 3rd edition of Huehnergard, although I appreciate the effort he must have put into trying to keep them as close as possible between revisions
Aha, page 640 in the 3rd edition PDF
cmw
cmw
@Adam Oh, ah! Good to know.
I did remember that he added appendices, and those numbers can differ greatly.
wa- to u- is a pretty wild change
cmw
cmw
18:19
> In the third edition...[the] pagination of the first and second editions has for the most part been retained, apart from the insertion of the new appendix and a few minor deviations elsewhere.
@Adam At first glance, but it makes sense.
Even ancient Greek lost its w-.
They call it double-u for a reason. :P
Interesting to know about mimation even if it was no longer used in MA.
@cmw lol
cmw
cmw
MA's for chumps. The older the better. ;)
Oh, I'm getting my dates wrong, this book is focused on OB so mimation is still a thing
cmw
cmw
I like Heuhnergard's reason for starting with Old Babylonian first, and for me especially I'll stick with it primarily since both the Epic of Gilgamesh and fragments of the Atrahasis are in Old Babylonian.
Not sure about Enuma Elish.
That's a motivator me as well, given that the most famous work in the whole language group is in OB.
cmw
cmw
18:31
Seems the Standard Babylonian versions are more complete, though. Hm...
Hmm..
Well, that complicates things.
cmw
cmw
Start with one, move to the other later.
I know I do eventually need to get to Neo-Assyrian. I did some rudimentary work on Neo-Assyrian treaties for my dissertation, but lacked the technical skill to comment more fully on them. Fortunately that wasn't necessary for it, but if I want to do something in the future, I should know better.
So maybe Old Babylonian -> Standard Babylonian -> Neo-Assyrian will be my learning order.
But...one step at a time!
That order makes the most sense to me, past to the future.
No different than learning classical Latin, medieval Latin, then romance languages.
Well, maybe a little different.
cmw
cmw
Well, with Latin, I did start with Classical before moving backwards to read Plautus, Ennius, and Terence, but the differences seem smaller.
And I definitely was learning French before mastering Latin...
So yeah, a little different.
18:55
I feel like having learned any language to fluency other than your native language is huge for unlocking any other language.
cmw
cmw
@Adam Strongly agree!
 
2 hours later…
20:49
On that note, back to working on Latin. :P
 
3 hours later…
23:56
> Inter duas portas est via lata, quae castra in duas partes dividit; ea via centum pedes lata est.
I'm confused by the use of ea in this. Without it, I read this as
> Between the two gates is a wide road, whom divides the fort into two parts; the road is 100 feet wide.
This comes from LLPSI, btw. The father Iulius is telling his son about his uncle who is serving in Germania.

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