@JoonasIlmavirta Interesting! It's hard for me to imagine having inner thoughts that don't involve language.

@Adam I do have thoughts that involve language or are in a language, but that's not all of it. I frequently find that my speech can't keep up with my thought.

Unrelated: If you see a question that's severely lacking in detail, it's helpful if you vote to close it for that. That will alert others to share their opinions. It serves the OP too, as an answer to a badly worded question is easily frustratingly useless.

I'm on mobile so I can't see if you did that in the recent instance you commented on.

@Adam I think you, too, have wordless thoughts! In addition to your verbal ones. Am I right?

@Cerberus Feelings before it is ultimately expressed with words, but generally everthing I think has some kind of dialogue with it

@JoonasIlmavirta I didn't vote to close, but I can get in the habit of doing that when something should have some additional information added. This is one of the main drawbacks of the kind of gamification used by SE - I feel like a jerk voting to close a question.

@Adam OK but maybe, when you are pondering a subject, your verbal thoughts are only part of the total body of thoughts on the subject?

@Cerberus Only if I create an imaginary scene in my mind that doesn't use language. I'm struggling to think of an example of something I'm thinking about internally that isn't thought using words.

Is it possible that you are simply not 100% conscious of those wordless thoughts?

How about when you ponder music?

not that I know of any of this but isn't reading thinking with words?

@Cerberus Ahh good question!

Music can vary, I can definitely create music in my head without directly using words, although when I get more in depth about arrangement and direction words will accompany the ideas.

Listening also doesn't require words; it's usually just images and feelings.

@Joonas: If, for example, you forget to put to put the washing machine on, what flashes into your mind--Oh ****, I've forgotten to put the washer on? Would that be in Finnish or just a feeling of frustration? You are walking down the street and see someone whom you don't like; a thought: Oh ****, I want to avoid that ****! Alternatively, in the window of a patisserie, there is a beautiful cream cake--with fruit on it; a thought: I want to eat it. How would this manifest itself?

@tony I rarely swear internally and even more rarely externally. If it happens it will come out in the language I am engaged in, usually Finnish or English.

If I see something or someone I want to avoid on the street, I don't find myself verbalizing it at all. I note the nature of the situation abstractly and automatically plot a new course.

A desire to eat will also manifest itself as a feeling, in general.

A lot of thought is unconscious, even very abstract scientific thought. That cannot be very verbal as far as I can tell, so making all conscious thought verbal seems to erect an unnecessary wall between the two realms.

@Adam That won't make you a jerk! I know it can feel that way, but you can also look at it in the reverse: If you don't help get the question closed, then the answers will be useless and the OP will be left without the desired help anyway and the overall quality of the site goes down by a small step and some of the experts consider the site that much less appealing. Those things take a bit longer to manifest, but won't they make you a jerk as well?

@Cerberus As I just mentioned to Tony: A lot of thought is unconscious anyway, and they seem to be wordless. And of course the line between conscious and unconscious isn't all that sharp.

@Joonas: Instinctive reactions: executed by everybody without thoughts (in words); swerving around a clumsy person, on the street; giving-way, in a crowd; body language--executed without conscious awareness; making-&-breaking eye-contact--subconsciously dictated by the feelings/ attitude towards that subject. Do you work on instinct?

@Joonas: Priorities for the day: cleaning the windows; going to the store; getting the laptop repaired: these instructions, to self, must be given in words, mustn't they? Mathematics: issuing instructions, to self: "integrate-by-parts"; "square the brackets"; "I need to eliminate infinity"--in words, yes?

@tony No! Those mathematical thoughts come to me largely in nonverbal form. And I find that very important for the way I work.

A lot of my work is based on instinct, but not it alone. There are many different kinds of forces at play, and I need them to balance each other out. Fruitful research has to be a mixture of chaos and order; if one side takes over, it all dies out. (I'm speaking of my own research, not in global generality.)

It's not just the two factions of chaos and order either. There's much more, but those are good examples.

@JoonasIlmavirta Yes, I agree.

@Joonas: And when you play chess? Instinct only gets the player so far; the point comes where the player asks himself--what do I do now--what's in your mind, then? Do you ever lose at chess? I'm guessing that only an exceptional player could beat you. Is that correct?

@tony True, there is a limit to instinct. But in chess, too, it is useful when counterbalanced by other forces.

It seems to me that you think that wordless thoughts are somehow less precise. That need not be the case. Chess is a good example of that: I can see patterns on the board, and those come to me as wordless ideas built on (but no consisting solely of) geometry. Good players must see far more patterns than I do.

In general, the very concept of a pattern is good example of cognition that is not chiefly verbal.

I'm not very good at chess. I don't have the interest to study or train to improve much, but I do enjoy the odd game.

@JoonasIlmavirta I think perhaps many people are not aware of the fact that they do have many wordless thoughts. They think they do not have them, but they do.

anyone here a fan of DBZ?

Who is that?