CONLOQVIVM

Adam

00:21

I've had it once or twice - I couldn't resist with that name. It's a pretty hoppy beer, if I recall.

Cerberus

Good?

Adam

I thought so at the time, although I'm not a big beer drinker. I usually drink scotch or vodka.

Cerberus

Ah, a spiritual man.

Or is whiskey no spirit?

Adam

@Cerberus It's spiritual for me, yes. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqua_vitae

Cerberus

Oh, cool.

Adam

00:31

I wouldn't mind sharing whisky with pliny, elder or younger, or even both

Cerberus

I had no idea whisky was from a translation of aqua vitae.

Adam

01:02

Interesting etymology for the word, going from a Gaelic word for the original latin, to an anglicized spelling.

RetractedAndRetired

02:07

@Adam What's your go-to Scotch?

Adam

@RetractedAndRetired My favorite is Laphroaig, followed by Ardbeg or Lagavulin. The last one is pretty expensive so I don't usually have any around, though.

RetractedAndRetired

I haven't had Ardbeg or Lagavulin. I do like Laphroaig, though.

I need to replenish my scotch selections. I'm down only to a GlenLivet 12 year left. This year for some reason I wasn't drinking much scotch, but I am a fan.

Adam

@RetractedAndRetired Are you in the US or somewhere else?

RetractedAndRetired

US, NYC to be precise.

Adam

the Biden administration removed a tariff that had been added in 2020 for scotch

if there's a costco near you, they have good prices (10yr Laphroaig is 43, if I recall).

RetractedAndRetired

02:14

Oh, nice! I hadn't heard that!

Costco is a bit of a trip for me, but there are a couple large "discount" liquor stores not too far away.

More expensive, but reasonable given the prices here...

You're in the US, too, right? I thought I remember seeing that in a chat earlier.

Adam

Costco has delivery through instacart, so you can actually get it delivered. :)

Yea, I'm in Vallejo, CA.

RetractedAndRetired

Ah, but then Instacart has their own fees, so it might even out a bit. I also use Drizly, so I'll check them both.

How do you like Vallejo? I used to live around there - Concord, CA for a year before moving into SF proper.

Adam

True. I pay for Instacart express so it evens out the extra cost. We also use it for groceries and more, so it sort of pays for itself.

I really like it here. We used to live in San Leandro before we bought a home here. Concord is close!

RetractedAndRetired

Ah, got it. My sister lived in San Leandro for a while. I was only in the Bay for two years before moving here.

I never got to Vallejo, though. Never had a reason.

Adam

There's not a lot of reason to and with no BART access, you need a car or to get an uber/lyft.

Did you apply for a moderator role?

RetractedAndRetired

02:34

Yeah, a few hours ago. Got that message and figured why not.

Adam

Good luck! I think you have a really good shot.

RetractedAndRetired

Gods know I've put enough time and effort into this site.

There's still time for others to put their hats into the ring.

Adam

Well your efforts show - there's a lot of great answers and discussion.

RetractedAndRetired

Thanks, I appreciate it.

Adam

I'm hoping I can contribute more as I learn more. The struggle is real!

RetractedAndRetired

02:40

Ha, look at Joonas. He was still learning when this site opened. He still is, but now he answers more quickly and confidently. You'll get there.

You're learning with Orberg, right?

Adam

02:55

Yea, along with the companion written by Jeanne Neumann

I also have Wheelock, although Orberg's book is more enjoyable

RetractedAndRetired

I don't love Wheelock. My friend and I have been talking (for too long) about writing our own. I like the idea behind texts like Latin Via Ovid, but the execution is so poor.

Adam

I'm not familiar with that one. Does that use the natural method like LLPSI?

RetractedAndRetired

Not quite. It is story-based, like LLPSI and Ecce Romani.

I don't love LLPSI either, but the issues are mostly in execution and not conception.

But I only taught with it once so I'm less familiar with it.

Adam

Ahh, so it has additional content that isn't in Latin

RetractedAndRetired

Wheelock and Orberg also do different things. One is for academic learning meant for kids to start translating (Wheelock) and the is for deeper reading but not always about true comprehension (Orberg).

Yes.

Adam

03:08

Ahh

I still don't know which works better for me

It's a "throw everything at the wall" approach for me, so far

RetractedAndRetired

It will also depend on what you want to do with it.

Spend enough time and sure enough eventually all approaches will get to the same place.

Though "immersive" people tend to sneer at grammar-learners for some strange reason.

Adam

True. My goal right now is to make sure I spend time each day reading and thinking in Latin, whatever my capacity. Even if it's just reading a few paragraphs of LLPSI before work.

RetractedAndRetired

What got you interested in learning Latin?

Adam

Initially my love of history (specifically ancient antiquity)

And mythology, for that matter

RetractedAndRetired

Did you pursue Classics?

You would have liked my old (old!) forum: web.archive.org/web/20080710211723/http://neonostalgia.com/…

Adam

03:20

No, in college I was information systems/computer science, although I did take anthropology and philosophy as electives.

RetractedAndRetired

I was the other way around. I chose Classics but took Java and Logic. Taught myself C++ and web dev...

If I could do it all over again, though, I might have chosen comp sci and made this my hobby.

Cerberus

Hah.

That sounds familiar.

RetractedAndRetired

Et tu, Cerbere?

Cerberus

Who knew, I should have listened to my parents.

Adam

Oh yea, I would have liked that community

RetractedAndRetired

03:23

There is value in a liberal arts degree!

Cerberus

But computer stuff also makes for a good hobby.

RetractedAndRetired

True enough.

Adam

Is that vBulletin?

Cerberus

Liberal arts, in the Roman sense?

RetractedAndRetired

@Adam Simple Machines

@Cerberus In the (false) dichotomy of STEM v. non-STEM, where the latter is often conflated with liberal arts.

Cerberus

03:24

Ah, I see.

Googling...

RetractedAndRetired

I.e. the Humanities.

Also not in the Roman sense, ha.

Cerberus

Science, technology, engineering, and mathematics

Science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM), previously science, mathematics, engineering, and technology (SMET), is a broad term used to group together these academic disciplines. This term is typically used to address an education policy or a curriculum choices in schools. It has implications for workforce development, national security concerns and immigration policy. The science in STEM typically refers to two out of the three major branches of science: natural sciences, including biology, physics, and chemistry; and formal sciences, of which mathematics is an example, along with...

So mathematics is not science?

RetractedAndRetired

Not really.

Cerberus

@RetractedAndRetired Ah, OK. So the social sciences are sciences.

RetractedAndRetired

I think the idea is that mathematics is done via proofs, while science is done via the scientific method.

Cerberus

03:25

Hmm I see.

RetractedAndRetired

@Cerberus And that itself is controversial!

Cerberus

It is very different from the divisions we have!

RetractedAndRetired

I've spent way too long thinking about what the proper divisions are. Ultimately I've come to the conclusion that, though methods differ, it's all arbitrary.

Cerberus

@RetractedAndRetired Agreed.

Our main division is between alpha (letters) and beta (exact sciences, anything that involves counting or measuring).

The third wheel is gamma, the newish social sciences.

RetractedAndRetired

That's not too dissimilar here.

The problem is what happens when we count letters?

Or do the history of counting?

Cerberus

03:31

Then we are multidisciplinary!

I remember we had to learn Microsoft Access during the first year of my BA in history.

RetractedAndRetired

Which is what we all should be, at least to some extent.

Cerberus

And research some database about the corn trade by Hanseatic towns.

Yes, well, I'm not sure we should all be that, but it can certainly be beneficial.

RetractedAndRetired

My diss has a healthy dose of psychology in it, which is actually one of the reasons I know work for a psychological testing institution.

And then I got into social network analysis, which is just fun.

ephor.us/latin/latingraph.html

(each node can be dragged and lead to either my article or Wikipedia's)

Cerberus

Oh, cool.

@RetractedAndRetired Wow, interesting.

E pur si muove!

RetractedAndRetired

hahaha

Yes indeed

I'm no Gilileo though.

Cerberus

03:41

Not yet.

At any rate, I'm glad we have many excellent candidates now.

Do you think you'll change your name if you should be elected?

RetractedAndRetired

from cmw?

or from RandR?

Noms de plume seem to be en vogue around here.

Cerberus

Quite so.

I don't remember what your Retracted And Retired was about: the Monica affair?

They made it so that one's chat name must match one's 'main user', I believe, which meant I could not have a different name in chat from my name on Latin.

RetractedAndRetired

No, I didn't quite get the Monica affair.

Cerberus

Oh, OK.

RetractedAndRetired

Nathaniel left because of that?

Cerberus

03:47

Then what is/was it about?

Yes.

RetractedAndRetired

I wasn't coming around anymore. New job, new life, no time for free labor so that StackExchange can make money.

Cerberus

Ah, OK.

RetractedAndRetired

I still sort of believe in the latter. That this whole enterprise is a for-profit company makes me a little leery.

2

Cerberus

Agreed.

So I don't feel any loyalty to the organisation.

RetractedAndRetired

I do enjoy Latin, which is what drew me back. Sad to see some good people gone, like Joel Derfner.

@Cerberus And you shouldn't! It's crazy to think anyone would.

Cerberus

03:49

Other than that I feel it is, in total, beneficial for it to exist.

RetractedAndRetired

There aren't too many options anymore. Forums are dying, Reddit is trash.

Cerberus

@RetractedAndRetired I agree, but I think many people do.

Wait, is Joel 'gone'?

Adam

I can see your point, although I'm okay with it because the people who use the product and benefit from it aren't paying for it.

RetractedAndRetired

I thought about trying to start something to supplement this place.

@Cerberus He hasn't been asking questions or answering lately, so I assumed so.

Cerberus

Hmm I thought he came and went in waves.

But I'm not sure now.

@Adam Yeah, people do benefit from it, so I'm glad it's there.

RetractedAndRetired

03:51

@Adam Although when we answer, we are automatically granting copyright to Stack forever.

Cerberus

Hmm it seems Joel hasn't made any real posts for two years or so, and only a few comments last year.

@RetractedAndRetired But at least it's under a very free licence, isn't it?

2

Q: Does copyright apply to Stack Exchange answers and comments?

So I asked a question on Worldbuilding Stack Exchange, and I got an answer that I really enjoyed. I loved the way the person described it. So I thought, is it okay to copy this and use it in other things? Short question: are Stack Exchange questions public domain?

Adam

@RetractedAndRetired Interesting. So if someone got help with a translation to use for something they planned to sell and it made millions of dollars, what would happen if SE came later said "hey, we want a piece of that pie because the post with that phrase is on our site"

RetractedAndRetired

@Cerberus I'm surprised it's a surprise to you. I would have thought something happened. I should reach out to him.

@Adam I am not a lawyer, but from what I understand, only the words are copyrighted. The ideas therein are not and cannot be.

But also, no!

Cerberus

@RetractedAndRetired My memory is pretty bad.

As is my sense of time.

Adam

Guess it's a good thing that I won't likely make anything of significance from any of my creations. ;)

RetractedAndRetired

03:56

Copyright is only licensed to StackExchange.

Cerberus

I do remember seeing less of him.

RetractedAndRetired

@Cerberus I was telling Joonas the other day that it really doesn't feel like we've been here for five years. Maybe 2.

Granted I also have been busy these past 2-3 years, but still!

Cerberus

@Adam If the sales depended upon copyright, then I think that copyright would be invalid; but I don't think SE could demand anything other than that.

@RetractedAndRetired Yes, indeed!

RetractedAndRetired

@Cerberus Wouldn't it revert to the original owner at that point?

Cerberus

I won't say tempus fugit.

RetractedAndRetired

03:59

Again, I am not a lawyer.

@Cerberus Ooh, praeteritio!

Cerberus

@RetractedAndRetired What, exactly?

@RetractedAndRetired Mebbeh.

RetractedAndRetired

@Cerberus If a third party uses a translation they got from StackExchange.

Cerberus

Then this third party is forced to attribute the translation correctly, and to apply the same licence to the derived work.

If third part attempts to apply a different copyright/licence, then that licence is invalid.

RetractedAndRetired

@Cerberus Though they may be forbidden from using it, too, no? I'm not really sure.

Aside from fair use, that is.

Cerberus

And SE could perhaps sue to have the derived copyright invalidated or corrected.

Adam

04:01

I just wanna rock and roll

RetractedAndRetired

@Adam All night? And party every day?

Cerberus

@RetractedAndRetired I don't believe so, as long as the third party complies with the terms of the SE licence.

But who really cares about those copyright nugae.

Adam

Well, not too late because I work in the morning.

Cerberus

How is the situation where you are?

Can you party?

Curfew was lifted here an hour and a half ago.

I hope to never live through that again.

RetractedAndRetired

I was only referencing the Kiss song!

Adam

04:05

There are still restrictions, but I'm a recluse so I didn't go out much anyway. Mostly just for bands here and there.

RetractedAndRetired

Things are getting better, but not yet great.

Cerberus

Oh...

I hope we shall all be vaccinated in a month or three.

RetractedAndRetired

I'm getting my second dose Thursday!

I'm very excited to finally hang out with other vaccinated friends again.

Adam

I'm going to schedule mine in the next week or so. I'm hoping the local pharmacy will have the J&J vaccine in again so I can just get one shot

RetractedAndRetired

@Cerberus What do they give out over there? Still AstraZeneca?

Or a variety?

Cerberus

04:10

Congrats to you both!

@RetractedAndRetired Biontech, Janssen, Moderna, and A-Z.

Mostly Biontech (Pfizer).

RetractedAndRetired

I don't even know the first two! They haven't made waves in the news.

Aaaah, nevermind, I see.

Cerberus

Biontech is owned by Pfizer, and Janssen by Johnson and Johnson.

So three sons of John.

RetractedAndRetired

And now I see that Janssen is J&J

Yep, got it.

Cerberus

A-Z has been suspended and resumed twice already, I think.

RetractedAndRetired

I should have guessed on that one had I thought about it for 2 seconds.

Cerberus

04:12

Or I think it is now suspended for most people.

RetractedAndRetired

I get the fears, but it is kind of silly, considering so few got clots.

Cerberus

@RetractedAndRetired Yes. On the other hand, young people have a very low chance of severe damage from the virus as well.

RetractedAndRetired

Was ist das?

Cerberus

And doctors prefer to interfere with one's body only when there is a very clear advantage in doing so.

@RetractedAndRetired Vaccinations here.

RetractedAndRetired

@Cerberus That we know of. I think the long-term stuff is still out, and of course if it's still circulating it's still mutating.

Cerberus

04:15

So most of the vaccines we have here are blue, Biontech.

@RetractedAndRetired Yes, very true.

The EMA says we should continue to use it.

But some governments are hesitant, also because we will soon no longer need it anyway, probably.

A third issue is collateral deaths and damage from people whose operations and other treatments are postponed because hospitals are too busy.

If you don't vaccinate as fast as you can, there will be more of those.

On the other hand, the one or two 30-y-o women who will perhaps die from the vaccine will not be affected by that, and doctors hate sacrificing one life for another, even one life for many others.

RetractedAndRetired

I think it's a political thing, mostly.

Cerberus

Oh?

Everyone hates A-Z the company, but I don't think health authorities are influenced by that.

RetractedAndRetired

It looks bad if people die from a vaccine, so it's a calculated risk to stop one with a higher risk than others.

Cerberus

Oh, yes.

They want to keep confidence in vaccines high.

On the other hand, all this news about suspending A-Z has been terrible for same confidence.

RetractedAndRetired

But people are growing complacent and bored with COVID

Cerberus

04:21

Also true.

RetractedAndRetired

Yes, sure, I'm not saying they are making a mistake, but just that it was overblown.

I have no opinion of Astra-Zeneca the company.

Why are they so hated?

Anyway, gents, gotta hit the hay.

Catch you both another night.

Curate ut valeatis!

Cerberus

@RetractedAndRetired I tend to agree.

@RetractedAndRetired Because they promised to deliver 120 million doses to Europe during the first quarter, of which they only delivered 30 million, while 20 million were sent from Europe to England.

Or something like that.

And the directors have responded viciously to European demands for an explanation.

Vale!

Adam

Is it morning there, @Cerberus?

Cerberus

@Adam I suppose so!

I should go to bed as well...

I'm brushing my teeth.

Which always takes a while.

Adam

Haha

3x as long

Cerberus

04:43

I knew you'd say that hehe.

But frankly I'm just slow.

And typing lots of things with a toothbrush stuck in my mouth.

Adam

3 heads doesn't come with extra sets of hands, unfortunately

Cerberus

With no set, unfortunately.

Vale!

Joonas Ilmavirta

06:48

@RetractedAndRetired I really appreciate that. I do think I've gained both confidence and knowledge, but I wasn't sure whether it shows.

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