It's not. You just have the illusion of security.

@TreyBlalock there is a whole site here dedicated to computer security, but I have never seen even a single blog post saying that the phone and SMS are not secure. So, why is that? Are we ignoring the elephant because there might be an ant on the floor?

@TreyBlalock afaik, capturing transmitted data of phone connections requires a protocol downgrade on the phone to GSM (?), to be able to crack the encryption. Is that what you mean when you're saying "It's not", or are there other things insecure about newer standards like 3G+ / 4G?

You have a valid point it should be a concern. Part of it is simply because the phone system is very old. Another part of it is that most government's are not fans of their citizens encrypting phone calls and in some countries encryption of any form is illegal so if you ever made a call to one of those countries your call would still have to be in the clear.

Think land-lines too. Zero encryption there.

@TreyBlalock And yet there were not sites dedicated to phone security. Tapping wires is illegal, and can be made illegal because a wire is a "thing". Radio waves are not a "thing" that anyone has rights to, and the Communications Act of 1937 made that clear. But no one worries about phone connections, whether wired or by radio....?

@nocomprende you are jumping to a lot of conclusions. Yes this is a topic people have been thinking about. Mobile data is encrypted with a key from your SIM-card. This key is know to your mobile network operator.

@John OK.. Well, how about we do WiFi that way also? If it is good enough for phone, it is good enough for most everything else, right? Saves a lot of work by the User.

@nocomprende Passwords simply fit the use case much better for WIFI networks. SIM cards are used in cell phones because the inability to clone them is a requirement. Using SIM cards for WIFI would only make things more complicated with no real benefit to the end user(s).

I think there is a basic misunderstanding here by the OP as to what WiFi and mobile phone connections are, and how they differ.

I've protected this for now, as the question isn't really right in itself, but it appears to be attracting "answers" which also show a lack of understanding.

@RoryAlsop I think the question why we do not use a hardware token or smart card is a valid question, though I doubt that OP actually knows the basic differences between WiFi and cellular networks.

Great question -- we spend so much time worrying about some things, and forget about others. Think about postal mail, for example. Oooh -- envelope glue!

@John: WiFi: its digital data. Phone: its digital data. "Any Questions?" As for the "complexity", pushing a chip in once is a lot less work than coming up with a password and entering it in to one or more devices. Particularly as I use more than one WiFi network. "Not worrying? Priceless."

@TomHarrisonJr Yes: this is the question: why do we take trouble to protect digital communication when so much around us is not really secure? It seems to me that when computers can reliably decipher voice conversations, we will have a real problem.

The original wording was not good, so I did my best to clarify as per Johns comment. If this doesn't meet what you intended please edit accordingly.

@nocomprende You might find this article on the Clipper Chip (and it's references) interesting.

Having worked as an intern for a VOIP operator, I confirm that telecom operators in France (at least) are obliged per law to be able to record conversations. I remember putting a customer on record myself (though in this case it was per customer request to investigate an issue with echo) and any company technician or engineer had the right to do so (there was an audit log). The conversations were on a VPN from the customer's phone to our servers, so on our servers they were accessible in the clear.

@MatthieuM. If I do not trust big companies and the government, then I guess I will have to take on the whole world of technology myself. On the other hand, I trust ordinary people to drive their cars safely every day. The point is NOT to protect myself from the Provider or Government! It is to protect myself from Criminals! Why are people arguing this point at all? Yes, the pilot of the plane could decide to crash it. The store clerk could poison the groceries. But... That is not very likely. Yet, I am assured on this very site that oodles of people are cracking in to private communications.

I vote for the SIM card, it is less work for my brain. There is a little slot on my laptop, can't I just stick a card there? Also, I have a Tracfone, so I can use any carrier. Somehow they all got their act together.

Maybe I could just put my phone near the computer and it could do a key exchange thing with Bluetooth? Aren't people thinking?

@nocomprende I am not sure if you are serious or simply not very thoughtful. The interaction between your device e.g. Smartphone and a mobile network or WiFi use completely different protocols. And unless your Laptop has a slot for a SIM-card, you can't just stick it into "a little slot".

@nocomprende A SIM-card would make things more complicated not easier. The WiFi password can be remembered by your OS so you just have to type it once. That isn't really to much work, right?

@nocomprende you are not using "any carrier" with Tracfone, Tracfone IS your carrier. You have a SIM-card from Tracfone!

@nocomprende - And there we go. Selling our security soul out for convenience.

I have never had to type anything in to use my phone anywhere. WiFi? every time I use a new network. Dumb, just pointless. Yes, in fact I trust law enforcement and my "carrier". Do I have a choice? Trusting them with one more thing is not a big deal. I suppose I could have the Fire Department hold the WiFi key, or the Department of Revenue or something. I still trust them. Again, I have no choice. Leaving my security in the hands of zillions of independent owner / operators of WiFi is senseless. We have an App for that: a SIM card, right?

@nocomprende this does not work, because a) ISP, Mobile Network Provider and the person/company operating the WiFi are not the same thing. Even if you ignore that the keys and protocols of the SIM card are incompatible to WLAN and assume you could authenticate with it. b)You would need a new SIM Card for EVERY WiFi. Why? Because a stranger should not be able to use your WiFi or the private WiFi of anybody! This implies everyone operating a WiFi would need to handout SIM Cards to people who want to use it. That seems far more impractical and still ignores the majority of other technical issues.

@John so, have the phone carriers do WiFi.

@nocomprende mobile carrier have mobile internet through e.g. LTE, 4G etc. They are not necessary ISPs (in the sense of providing cable based internet connections to your home) and not all mobile carriers offer mobile internet. WiFi is the term for wireless connection made with an access point through the 802.11X family of protocols. This is what you use for you internet with your access point at home, not what you use for mobile internet through your mobile carrier.

30 years ago, "Cable" was analog television. Now it is more internet access than TV. I could not connect to the internet without "Cable". (I do not have TV service.) Wireless is wireless. Bits are bits. If anyone is still using a "phone" to make calls in 30 years, I will be surprised. Doesn't anyone look beyond the obvious to what is even more obvious?

@nocomprende wireless transmission are not all the same. There is a giant difference between mobile internet like LTE and WiFi. They use different frequencies, bandwidth and modulation etc. Saying that they are interchangeable is like saying a train is a car. Sure both get you from point a to b, but they work in very different ways. It is true that technology is evolving, but that has nothing to do with the answer to your question. Honestly I think you are trolling or not willing to read, research and understand the topic.

@John The technology you said in "would not work" point 1 already exists (see EAP-SIM and EAP-AKA) and is widely-supported by recent iOS and Android devices. Commercial deployments already exist in Spani and the UK. There are even tutorials on how to set it up at home.

@billc.cn thanks for the info, but that wasn't the actual problem. It works only if the access point supports it and is configured to use it. Also it doesn't work like a magic key that OP wants. It also has all the problems described below because you need an AAA-System.

@John Read the tutorial I linked. I thought the "at home" description I added was already a hint...

@billc.cn well we seem to have different opinions about "at home". You can setup as system, with some tricks, extra software, extra hardware and IT-knowledge (so it's not very everyone's home). So yes in a certain sense you can do that. I would argue that it is not what OP asked for and I think we can agree that the setup is more complicated.

← 17 messages moved from Discussion on answer by John: Why is my phone connection secure without a password when WiFi is not even with a password?

-(static)- "Mr. No Comprende to the Principal's Office." - (clatter sound)-

OK, so say I was trolling, and I am not really interested in researching... But I repeat myself.

I guess to me, I am trying to see it as a user would: hey, there is all this password stuff and it is NOT secure, but there are never any problems with my phone (that's my second favorite device). What's up with that?

Well, no one is apparently here now, so regarding 802.11, I'll just have to say Aloha! (Please say that you got the joke at least.)

@nocomprende but that is so completely wrong I don't know where to start

With passwords WiFi is measurably much more secure than without

And even more secure when you use a secure form of WiFi

WPA2/TKIP as an example

I don't know why you say it isn't secure

You need to look at what WiFi is: lots of devices on the same network using the same protocol and all visible to each other because of that protocol

GSM network: lots of devices on their own networks, not visible to each other, only to the cell towers