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23:00
and you'll find that I critique religion
TDL (topological deep learning) - I'm taking it
sort of
from Dieck I've read two first chapters... I have a printed out copy around but I won't read it any time soon
I won't study Dieck with anyone unfortunately
I feel like I'd rather try to continue with Bredon if anything, and before that even, maybe Sakai, and before that, well, I plan to learn a lot from general topology
might send out a question in here sometimes
as i go through it
23:05
I want to continue to read about topics adjacent to what I've already learned in Gillman and Jerison, and I have a sort of idea of which direction to go towards
Ok then I guess I will visit this char room pretty often talking with you guys posting some problems I have encountered while reading Dieck's book.
Generally speaking I want to study Tychonoff spaces and adjacent issues such as compactifications, dimension etc. but also $C(X)$ and specially embedded sets
@ZekaiChen do you already know any algebraic topology, by the way?
@Thorgott Yes for basic homology cohomology and homotopy theory. But I didn't manage them well, just learnt them from class. I am now intending reading the book talking with someone doing more exercises to make me really understand these basic theory for future study.
yeah ok, that's good
I would not recommend tom Dieck as an introductory text to the subject, but it should be fine if you've already taken a class
23:15
I have taken 2 and half semester courses about algebraic topology which covered homology, cohomology and half semester's homotopy theory. I just found out I didn't know these theory very well now. So I decided to go through them again before too late.
@Thorgott Yes you are right. Rotman's book is my first book. Now I feel Dieck's book is quite concise though.
yeah, I would say it's concise (others might call it a bit terse), but I think it's great for learning the material more in-depth
you definitely sound sufficiently prepared
@Jakobian I like Bredon as a reference. I've never used it as a text, however, so I can't speak to that.
@Thorgott Do you know what a normal map is in the context of surgery theory
@XanderHenderson I've added cinnamon powder to my grinded coffee beans. I know you said you advise against powder but I don't have cinnamon sticks
Worst case the kitchen will explode
@BalarkaSen if memory serves correctly, a degree one back pulling back a given bundle to the tangent bundle (up to stable equivalence) or something like that?
23:28
you should try to add mastic and cardamom
@Thorgott This must be an equivalent description, yeah. The one I know is the following: $f : M \to N$ is a normal map if $f^*\nu(N) \oplus TM$ is stably trivial, where $\nu(N)$ is the stable normal bundle of $N$ (embed $N$ in a sufficiently high dimensional Euclidean space, take normal bundle)
@SineoftheTime grind it together?
I don't think I've ever seen such thing as mastic but I may try
@BalarkaSen does degree one follow from that?
23:33
@Jakobian No, the worst case is that your filter will get all clogged up, and you won't get your coffee. Again, depending on what kind of filter you have.
@Thorgott ok, probably not
In Turkey/Syria, coffee with mastic is considered "high level" coffee
@SineoftheTime But isn't it made with mastic syrup, rather than something that should be mixed with the beans when grinding or brewing?
No, since this holds for any map $f\colon S^n \to S^n$
@BenSteffan Oh, well, in that case, I guess you might grind it up with the beans.
23:35
@XanderHenderson yes, maybe turkish coffee is made with mastic syrup
@XanderHenderson I don't recommend grinding maps $S^n \to S^n$ up with your beans
checking Ranicki again, it seems what I'm recalling is a "degree one normal map" specifically
@XanderHenderson its like metal
but those are the ones turning up in the surgery exact sequence, I think
23:38
but it did have a harder time exiting the top, so I guess it clogged a little bit
I got my coffee though, its bitter like coffee and sweet like cinnamon
@Jakobian It is more about the size of the holes. In a French press, the holes are large enough that the cinnamon powder will likely go straight through. But in an espresso machine, the holes are very small, and could end up clogged. And if you are using a paper filter, good luck. You are doomed.
@Thorgott Why is your definition equivalent to mine?
Just curious
@Jakobian Huh... I don't think of cinnamon as being "sweet". It is just a flavor. I use it in a lot of savory dishes, too. Like mousaka.
use an ultrafilter
3
Cinnamon is really good with lamb. Cinnamon and mace.
23:40
@BenSteffan LOL
I suppose I am saying a normal map is one where the stable normal bundle pulls back to the stable normal bundle, stably?
cinnamon as a spice and the mace to kill the lamb I assume
@BenSteffan Hah! Different kind of mace. ;p
seems a little gruesome but ok
oh, so you're going to pepper-spray the lamb?
:^)
@XanderHenderson I have a moka pot which is technically neither
clogging here is a bit dangerous since it might explode, potentially
23:41
I think your definition is more specific
sounds like a great way to test you steam escape valve :^)
@BenSteffan That could be fun, but you are still thinking of the wrong kind of mace.
either it works or you die, 50:50
it does have an exit for pressure on the side, and I think I heard it hiss a little
23:42
I know :^)
just pulling thine leg, my liege
cause I just ask (specified to your setting) for a stable map $\nu_M\rightarrow f^{\ast}\nu_N$
@Thorgott Fair enough.
I think I get yours if I demand this to be a stable isomorphism
what I did is I grinded the beans and then I mixed them with cinnamon powder
Makes sense
23:43
though even then, specifying the isomorphism is extra data compared to just demanding the existence
but my understanding of surgery is very cursory to say the least
I was trying to verify that for a cobordism $W : M \Longrightarrow N$, if there exists a retract $r : W \to M$ then it is a normal map. It makes intuitive sense but I cannot quite prove it, embarrassingly.
@Thorgott Mine, too. Though I'm pretty sure I could remove an appendix in a pinch.
If I embed $W$ in a sufficiently high dimensional Euclidean slab (relative to the boundaries), the retract should send the normal bundle to the normal bundle.
@XanderHenderson pros: book gets shorter. cons: probably also harder to follow
23:47
the appendix is where proofs go to die
I like a good appendix, but also, a lot of the time the appendix can be horrendous
@BenSteffan Proofs, and undergraduates.
just thinking about the green book appendix fills me with dread
@BalarkaSen this is a weird hypothesis, hmm
@BenSteffan the green book?! I only know blue and red
Hopf algebroids were not made to be understood by man, and Ravenel lets this on quite clearly
23:49
one day we'll have a rainbow
the green book, yes
Ravenel's seminal work
"Complex cobordism and stable homotopy groups of spheres"
the second edition, which everybody now owns, was ironically reprinted in a bordeaux color
@BenSteffan Watch your language!
@Thorgott it essentially contains all the spectral sequences you might ever need to do computations in the stable homotopy category
which is a few, and they're all so much fun to work with :^)
it's the kind of field where people develop spectral sequences converging to the $E_2$-term of another spectral sequence just to facilitate computing that
there's also an unfortunate tendency for the spectral sequences to become trigraded
23:53
lovely
i have this green book, guess what it is
@BalarkaSen do you have an example of this btw? I can't really imagine one
well besides the trivial one
@Thorgott that looks ancient
something by Steenrod?
@Thorgott Any $h$-cobordism is an example, but that is not extremely vivid, I will grant you.
though Steenrod's book on bundles is brown
slightly less ancient :P
hm, no idea then
23:55
it's the one responsible for the sign error in my Bachelor's thesis, Spanier
Euclid's Elements
I haven't seen a physical copy of spanier in my life
Here's one. Take a trivial cobordism and interior connect sum with some junk.
@BalarkaSen so even those that are not trivial?
@BenSteffan me neither till this got passed on to me
23:57
i inherited ed spanier's copies of a few books (sadly/not sadly, this did not include a copy of spanier)
@Thorgott Not always, for non-simply connected manifolds.
I have no idea why people say non-simply connected. Shouldn't you rather say simply disconncted?
@BalarkaSen please don't :)
0-connected but not 1-connected
I also recently got my hand on two small booklets each containing an essay by Hirzebruch on the signature them, I should read them at some point
@BalarkaSen should it be clear that you still get a retract that way?
I wonder what kind of Hirzebruch memorabilia my department has lying around
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