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9:00 PM
cue in kelly clarkson
 
today she had a tantrum about not being able to wear the shirt she wanted to day care. it did wonders for my mental health.
because the day care is a phony baloney anticapitalist utopia, they have a strict policy of no animated logos or other figures on clothing. if we hadn't taken it off they would have swapped for something else she wouldn't have liked.
 
@leslietownes. Most people who got covid I know recovered!
@leslietownes. Actually, all that I know got recovered!
@leslietownes. Young and old, same.
 
@TedShifrin After I asked, I found out that $\Bbb RP^n$ is an example that fails
 
9:16 PM
Get well, @leslietownes, @Ted.
My sinus has been acting up lately as well.
Monsoon season on this end of the world
 
There are zillions of examples. Start with $\Bbb R^n$, $S^n$, ... @love_sodam
 
9:28 PM
@leslietownes I approve of that policy because wealth varies so much, I imagine.
 
yes. children also bully each other for liking the 'wrong' figurines.
 
Children learn to bully from adults.
 
9:53 PM
ugh. somehow i'd missed that. i may have been avoiding the news for my mental health.
sad in how unsurprising and normal it all seems now.
 
10:11 PM
@TedShifrin I expected some statement only on $q = n$ like $H_q(X;G) = G$ for $q = n$ and no condition on other degrees. For example, torus and sphere make sense. May be some statement holds for compact orientable manifolds?
 
10:31 PM
hi... i had a question about tangent vectors. as i understand it one can define a tangent vector at a point $p$ on a real smooth manifold $M$ as a $p$-derivation $D:C^\infty_p(M)\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$. i am wondering if there is a way to generalize this to commutative algebras, i.e. a purely algebraic way to understand $C^\infty_p(M)$ with reference only to $C^\infty(M)$.
hopefully this is the right place to ask
 
Hello, can someone please verify that this is true: for all $i\in N$ if $f_i:A_i\to B_i$ are continuous, then $\prod f:A_1\times A_2\times\cdots\to B_1\times B_2\times\cdots$ is continuous.
 
p-addict, i believe the term you want to search is derivation.
 
@love_sodam Yes, if you’re talking about $H_n$ only, that is compact orientability precisely.
 
i would say more but i would goof up the details and notation.
 
@leslietownes it seems to me the proper definition here would be a derivation $C^\infty_p(M)$, but the trouble i'm having is reconstructing $C^\infty_p(M)$ from $C^\infty(M)$. sorry, i think i'm being unclear
*a derivation on $C^\infty_p(M)$
 
10:35 PM
$C^\infty_p(M)$ is localization of $C^\infty(M)$ at the maximal ideal $\mathfrak{m}_p$ of all functions vanishing at $p$.
I am not sure if that answers your question.
 
@BalarkaSen oh, i see... i think this works! i will have to think about why this is true (i am ashamed to admit my commutative algebra is quite weak)
 
No worries, it's not trivial by any means. But you'll get it by chasing through definitions.
 
now do noncommutative algebras.
:)
 
@leslietownes the dictionary from "well established mathematics" to "ah, another paper"
 
10:47 PM
@TedShifrin As far as I know, a compact connected $n$-mfd $X$ with boundary $\dot{X}$ is orientable over $R$ if and only if $H_n(X,\dot{X};R)\neq 0$.
 
11:05 PM
Ah but if $X$ is connected, $H^q(X;R)\simeq H_{n-q}(X,\dot{X};R)$ so $H_q(X;R)\simeq R$ if $q =n$. But still don't know for arbitrary $R$ module $G$
Oh UCT works
 
do examples before abstract nonsense
 
Yea at least sphere and torus works
 
11:21 PM
hmm, i suppose in the case of real smooth manifolds one can simply use $C^\infty(M)$ to define tangent vectors, though. is there any advantage to using $C^\infty_p$?
 
none. whenever you have partition of unity, local is global
C^infty_p is supposed to say something about the local nature of M around p, C^infty is something about global
this is only relevant in a category where you do not have enough flexibility for partition of unity. algebraic varieties. complex manifolds
etc.
 
what about non paracompact manifolds
 
these do not exist
 
i think that's a joke but i don't remember enough math to be sure.
 
yes i understood it was a joke and still got pissed off
 
11:24 PM
actually, that's a non-issue here
you don't need partitions of unity, only bump functions
 
where is the ignore button...
 
another swing and a miss from me.
 
hmm, maybe it's overly optimistic of me then to wish for a generalization encompassing those other categories... i imagine then we can't use localizations of the global sections either? but i'm very inexperienced with these other areas
 
And the bat splinters anyway!
 
@P-addict you have to use localization to define tangent space in these other categories
 
11:30 PM
what exactly are you trying to do? reason with affine schemes?
 
well, i guess i was curious if there was a way of defining tangent spaces based on how it's done in the real case which extends a bit further than the real case
i think i'm fumbling around in territory which i'm not suited to study yet though
 
Oh, sure.
Look up Zariski tangent space.
 
I think the definition one usually generalizes is the m/m^2 one for the cotangent space
 
thank you both! this is interesting, i had not seen this definition before
in the general case it is easier to start at cotangent spaces, then?
 
It can be written in terms of derivations too, it makes no difference. Let $(A, \mathfrak{m})$ is a commutative local $k$-algebra, where $k = A/\mathfrak{m}$ is the residue field.
A derivation is a $k$-linear map $D : A \to k$ such that $D(ab) = [a]D(b) + [b]D(a)$.
$[a]$ is like the "value" of $a$ at $\mathfrak{m}$, which is $0$ in $k = A/\mathfrak{m}$.
The $k$-vector space of derivations is $(\mathfrak{m}/\mathfrak{m}^2)^*$
Take it as an exercise, it's not too hard.
 
11:41 PM
that is awesome
i'll have to sit down with this for a bit
 
for sure!
This observation tells you that one can do much of calculus in an abstract setup with rings and so on (by which I really mean schemes, but never mind).
Of course, whether such perverse generalizations of calculus deserve to be called calculus ...
 
yeah, my question was definitely inspired by "algebraic generalizations" of calculus - i had encountered "differential calculus on commutative algebra" although i think this might be a bit different
 
there is quite a lot of that out there although it starts to fragment into different things depending on what you are interested in.
 
11:58 PM
math wikipedia is very eclectic. there's really good stuff and really mediocre stuff with no pattern (e.g. interest v. obscurity) to explain it. entries will have definitions, examples, sometimes theorems, sometimes cites to papers or history, sometimes not. i guess because most users and editors only zero in on the thing they are interested in. but from a step back it looks pretty weird.
most of wikipedia is kind of like this by its nature but it seems particularly acute in an relatively organized field with lots of talented enthusiast wikipedians.
 
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