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5:02 PM
The distinction between $<$ and $\le$ is irrelevant in this context.
 
Why?
 
If $f(x) \le C g(x)$, then $f(x) < (C+\varepsilon) g(x)$ (where $\varepsilon > 0$).
I probably should have put absolute values on everything---in my head, both $f$ and $g$ were nonnegative functions.
So the statement should be $|f(x)| < C |g(x)|$.
Oh, wait.... I did get the absolute values right.
And when I say "if $|x|$ is large enough", what I really mean (in the context of the linked .pdf) is "if $x \in S$".
 
Thanks for the clarification, however, $\le$ is usually used in the definition of Big oh. Would $<$ do just as fine?
 
@schn Again, mathematically, it makes no difference.
The $\le$ suggest the existence of a "sharp" bound, but from a practical point of view, the distinction is largely irrelevant.
From a stylistic point of view, it is probably better to write $\le$, but $<$ requires fewer keystrokes.
 
truly marginal, but the $\le$ allows for $f$ and $g$ to both be zero at the same time, but $<$ does not.
working on my leslie captiousness
 
5:11 PM
@copper.hat Sure.
F'n' Bourbakists...
 
:-)
i vacillate
 
Honestly, I am pretty sloppy with inequalities, because I know that it mostly doesn't matter.
Nothing is ever actually zero. :P
ZERO DOESN'T EXIST!
 
none of it matters, nothing is sharp, there is no case of equality.
 
have you seen my bank account?
 
@leslietownes Exactly.
 
5:13 PM
i'm all for equality
 
@copper.hat Yes, and I took the liberty of removing all but $\varepsilon$ dollars from it.
 
living hand to mouth for a few years leaves scars
 
I think that I use $<$ in the same way that a lot of folk use $\subset$.
Whether I actually mean $\subseteq$ or $\subsetneq$ is a mystery!
 
i like clear notation, but unless every one uses it...
 
:P
I also consider zero to be positive (and also negative).
 
5:15 PM
zero is definitely a positive operator. :)
 
seems good to me. i tend to use strict or non-the opposite for clarity
 
In the spirit of Barry Simon's five volume series: "For a real number $a$, we will use the terms positive and strictly positive for $a\ge 0$ and $a > 0$, respectively. It is not so much that we find nonnegative bad, but the phrase "monotone nondecreasing" for $x > y \implies f(x) \ge f(y)$ is downright confusing..."
 
i agree but still use it
 
Thus zero is positive, and one is strictly positive. :D
 
i'm fine with whatever, even french stuff, if it's defined.
 
5:17 PM
@leslietownes I cannot accept French stuff.
German stuff, fine. I will hold my nose and accept it.
Russian stuff is great.
But FRENCH?! :P
 
i tended not to have a lot of input on papers when i was asked to referee them, but a common issue i noted was someone using a term like "positive" and not being clear about what they meant and it maybe complicating a definition or adding a corner case depending on what it meant.
and my note would be, would be great to see a definition or definitional remark this.
 
@leslietownes Yup. I've left a couple of notes like that.
 
i hate the game practiced by some mathematicians, including those on the continent, where, if you can make some series of logical inferences where they can only mean one thing if the result is true, then they don't need to say what they mean.
math is not a guessing game and not one of those logic puzzles where you figure out who did what by crossing out x's in a grid.
 
@leslietownes Oh, god. Do people pull that kind of sh*t?
That is gross... X(
 
there should be accepted groupings of standards, as in "i am using the Xander-Leslie Positivity Standard".
i think there is something to that
 
5:20 PM
it's the Leslie-Xander positivity standard, but yes.
 
you know, i spent a few hours figuring this out, so you should tooo
i want the one liner "here is the real contribution of this paper"
 
@leslietownes Ha!
 
there was a guy i used to sometimes work with who, whenever you pointed out an opportunity for clarification, would launch into some 5 minute explanation of why no clarification was necessary. like a logical proof that he'd won at the game of exposition.
 
@XanderHenderson Sorry to bother again, and maybe being picky, but when you write $|f(x)| < C |g(x)|$ you exclude the possibility of $|f(x)| = C |g(x)|$ and thus $f \in O(g)$ according to the definition in the .pdf, no?
 
he was insufferable. he used to contribute to math.SE and nit picked a number of my posts without knowing i was me. he seems to have found other pursuits.
 
5:25 PM
@schn $C$ is an arbitrary constant. For $f$ to be in $O(g)$, there must exist some constant $C$ such that $|f(x)| < C|g(x)|$ for all appropriate $x$.
If there is $C$ such that $|f(x)| \le C |g(x)|$, then there exists a $C'$ such that $|f(x)| < C' |g(x)|$. (For example, take $C' = C+1$.)
 
@XanderHenderson Nice :)
 
On the other hand, by the least upper bound property of the real numbers, if there exists $D$ such that $|f(x)| < D g(x)$ for all appropriate $x$, then there is $D'$ such that $|f(x)| \le D' |g(x)|$. (Just take $D' = D$; or, if you want something sharp, take $D' = \inf\{ D : |f(x)| < D |g(x)|\}$.)
The point is that throughout most of analysis, the distinction between $<$ and $\le$ is irrelevant, because it all gets smoothed out in the limit.
@leslietownes It is good to find other pursuits.
 
@XanderHenderson Thanks!
 
i don't think he was intentionally being rude, he was just wired to behave in a way that most people found rude. and i am generally accepting of a wide array of personality and communication styles but sometimes he pushed my personal line.
in my postdoc we had prospective grad students visit, and one of our profs began talking to an admitee about potential research areas, and when the admitee said a few things suggesting that algebraic geometry wasn't her focus, began subtly correcting her, like "what you just described in that five word summary isn't algebraic geometry. algebraic geometry is very different from that." i was stunned, thinking, what are we trying to do at this admitted students event.
some people get into math because they like keeping track of details and correcting other people and maybe to some extent being known as being good at something that a lot of other people think is hard.
and not for the real reason to get into math, which is the insane amount of money you get paid to study it.
 
@leslietownes "Insane amount of money".
I'm still waiting for that to happen.
I got hired here with only one or two steps to go on the payscale.
And cannot afford a car of my own at this moment in time.
 
5:42 PM
one time they were surveying grad students about the level of compensation for teaching. i was called into the chair's office because i had more than average teaching experience. how are you doing? do you get by?
the literal answer to that question was yes. i think i profited, i don't know, $200-500 a year. i was making out like a bandit.
i understood the goal of the exercise was to target the teaching pay at exactly whatever would be needed to keep teachers alive and teaching.
 
i remember some ra/tas whining about pay when i was in grad school and attended some sort of unionish meeting. i asked is this about the $10/mo discrepancy? yes, indeed, it is a travesty! oh, i see, what about the non resident tuition payments that foreign students need to make? oh, screw them.
 
there's a mathematician i don't like very much, for only the reason that when the grad student union was trying to negotiate for a dental plan, he argued in print in a weird leaflet that he left in our mailboxes that we were all privileged to be where we were and our parents could cover the slack.
 
i guess most foreign students are fairly well off
 
how about your parents cover my slack.
that's the problem, copper. or a problem.
 
i guess even if poor by us student standards, i considered my self well off in a life sense.
 
5:45 PM
i think a lot of people internalize the concept that 'foreign students have everything paid for them by their governments,' which is not true, but might seem closer to true than false because of what some governments do do for their students that the USA doesn't.
 
hah
well, we did get a good primary & secondary education
and third level
 
the flip side of that is also a very colonialist and insulting assumption that someone not from the US should be destitute. i heard someone say something once that was well intentioned but suggestive of sympathy for the downtrodden, using X as an example.
 
it is sad, but not unexpected, that education is a major class distinction
 
i said, i don't think you know how many servants X's family has in his home country. which was true. the idea that there might be gobs of money outside of the united states is unfathomable to some people.
 
well, i am from a third world country
albeit most irish would bristle at that remark without understanding their own history
 
5:48 PM
1
Q: Every non abelian group of order 6 is isomorphic to $\displaystyle S_{3}$ (the symmetry group of order 6).

KoroEvery non abelian group of order $6$ is isomorphic to $\displaystyle S_{3}$ (the symmetry group of order $6$). I tried to prove it but got stuck mid-way. Let $\displaystyle G$ be a non-abelian group of order $6$. In $\displaystyle G,$ not all elements (non-identity) have order 2 because then the ...

 
wealth is a relative thing, in every sense of the word, pun intended
what, maths?
 
Can anybody please explain the coset part in the second answer? Thanks.
 
people outside ireland also misunderstand ireland's place in the larger universe.
 
It seems that the nice user who answered it has not yet seen my comment
What is the mathematics syllabus at highschool in US @copper?
Is calculus there?
 
@Koro Sometimes.
 
5:51 PM
it is frequently available but rarely required. i don't know of any state that requires it.
 
It has been a while since I looked at any specific curriculum, but the standard for a long time has been two years of algebra and a year of geometry.
 
@Koro it is sort of. my son (17) graduated yesterday but had a completely different maths experience from my daughter (20) who attended the same school, so i do not want to generalise
 
US education is very decentralized, there are in the order of 15000-20000 different local implementations of 50 sets of standards.
 
So I think that depends upon state right? In Ohio for example syllabus will be different
?
 
I've slowly become disillusioned by, for lack of a better word, the "promise" of academia to its students. It was bound to happen after leaving my faculty position.
 
5:52 PM
College-bound students are often given the opportunity to take calculus (either through an AP or IB program, or via dual enrollment).
 
standards depend on the state and implementation depends on the county and school district.
very localized.
 
There are also sometimes alternative "higher level" topics courses offered, e.g. statistics.
 
@XanderHenderson: I forgot to tag you
 
And the State of Nevada implemented a third year of algebra while I was teaching there.
 
the group is the disjoint union of the cosets
and there are only two cosets in this case
 
5:53 PM
my daughter's was classical, and had my coxeter out so to speak to help her.
my son other other hand had a 9th grade teacher who gave impossible problems (among other issues): math.stackexchange.com/questions/2816411/looking-for-solution-of-a-9th-graders-problem
 
(Nevada requires that students take four years of math, but many students were not on a calculus-bound path, so they had to come up with something for those who didn't want/need precalculus or calculus).
 
Hi Throgott, I have made a comment there because I don't think that a<b>=G\<b> @Thorgott
 
in a lot of regions of the US, there might be a theoretical opportunity to offer calculus, but someone with the subject matter experience is not there. which means either someone is just randomly brought in and told to read out of the book (they just need to stay one lesson ahead of the students!) or it's not available.
 
@copper.hat Yikes!
 
well, I just told you why they are equal
 
5:55 PM
@leslietownes Oh, I have so much "fun" with those folk.
 
@XanderHenderson i suspect there was a typo in the question but the teacher would not admit it.
 
foreign language instruction is the same way.
 
I have a student enrolled in my calculus class right now. He came to office hours on Thursday and asked if he should drop the class (he is a high school student taking the class for dual enrollment credit, and the pace is... intimidating... to say the least).
 
The thing that really annoys me is when people say we need to teach stats/DS over calculus
 
He claimed that he could just take AP calculus in the fall.
 
5:56 PM
I am asking this Leslie, copper and Xander because I remember once watching a physics lecture online by Walter Levin if I recall correctly and one student asked what is sin theta.
 
i sometimes bristle at jokes about americans being ignorant and not speaking other languages. there are places in america where the county doesn't have a fluent speaker of another language. it's a big place. i can't get in my car and drive to germany and find a ton of germans.
 
I said "Don't do that. If you are going to take calculus in the fall, take it from the college. AP calc sucks."
 
@XanderHenderson i had met with the teacher earlier in the year to discuss some other issues and it was the first time in a while that i came close to popping someone in the nose.
 
@leslietownes Indeed.
 
So at MIT, somebody was asking what is sin theta so I thought what is the syllabus in highschool in US.
 
5:57 PM
@copper.hat Oh, joy.
I mean, I make typos on exams all the time.
 
koro there is extremely wide variation.
 
IMO I wish I didn't have to waste time going through the calc sequence and wished I could've just started off in analysis. I felt like I was going through the motions for 1-2 years until linear algebra and then taking analysis afterward.
 
i understand mistakes, i make them all the time. but it leaves a lot of kids with the notion that maths is impossible.
 
if you ask what the bare minimum is, in terms of what does every high school in the country require, it is low. it might just be some algebra and geometry without sines of angles in it.
 
syllabus varying from state to state @Leslie ?
 
5:58 PM
My response is to (1) make no changes or admission of error in the moment ("Just do your best, y'all," (2) remove the question from the exam while grading, and (3) apologize profusely when returning the exams.
 
koro state to state and even city to city in terms of what people have access to. on the order of 10,000-20,000 slightly and sometimes widely different sets of rules.
 
i taed a cs class in berkeley and some students did not know what $\sin$ was.
 
@Koro Curriculum can vary within states, let alone across state lines.
@copper.hat Sin is when you do something g*d doesn't like, right?
 
@XanderHenderson I see
@leslietownes Oh my
 
@XanderHenderson i am good at $\sin$ :-)
 
6:00 PM
Yeah, my high school required Algebra II as minimum for graduation... and I think that was actually higher than most schools require
 
The Mathematics Common Core is an attempt by mathematics educators to articulate something which could act as the scaffolding for a standardized curriculum, but every jurisdiction can implement it as they see fit (or ignore it entirely).
 
my sister had an enormous amount of trouble graduating high school. geometry was a requirement and she couldn't pass it. her teacher just let her graduate.
 
why don't they make the mathematics syllabus uniform then?
 
@Clarinetist Two years of algebra and one year of geometry is a fairly common minimal standard for graduation.
 
suppose somebody wants to get into stanford
 
6:01 PM
I had unintentionally skipped half of geometry... my middle/high-school experience was weird
 
xander that is a good point about common core. there's nobody imposing it from the top down. it's kind of an opt-in, do it as you see it kind of model.
 
I would be suspicious of any jurisdiction which requires less.
 
@XanderHenderson common core was what messed my son's maths education up. the general idea is good, the implementation severely flawed
 
koro, as an attorney, it's not clear to me that our federal government would have the authority to tell the states what to do in the realm of education.
 
which may have some entrance test, some students from some states may not qualify that
 
6:01 PM
@copper.hat That doesn't sound like a problem with common core. That sounds like a problem with the local implementation.
 
@leslietownes They do to some extent - i.e., standardized testing requirements + NCLB being the start of that
 
absolutely
 
it does stuff with pulling or pushing funding in various directions, but it's not clear that it could go farther than that.
 
starts searching statutes
 
@Clarinetist NCLB is no longer the law of the land, and hasn't been for more than a decade.
 
6:02 PM
NCLB is renewed
ESSA was the last renewal the ESEA, of which NCLB was the previous part of it
 
@leslietownes I see
 
it can fiddle with funding and that obviously can fiddle with a lot of other things. but i don't think it could say, here's the textbook everybody must use for math or you can't graduate high school.
 
Basically, how I see it is this
The ESEA has to be renewed every X years (X being whatever the legislature can do to get the process going)
NCLB was a particular renewal of the ESEA
 
there's also a political element of this. many people, i would say, largely wealthier people, are suspicious of public education in the US. the local control that people in their own communities have over what goes on in their schools is maybe a big part of what some people see as making public education, as a concept, legitimate.
 
and well, some things were dropped in the ESSA renewal of the ESEA
 
6:04 PM
if it's coming from washington it wouldn't be legitimate anymore.
 
I don't miss having my income being dependent on that world
 
the important thing is that we have new, back breaking textbooks every year
 
@copper.hat Yeah. No mathematics text should be 1000 pages long.
 
so @Koro, why do you think they're not equal
 
Just stupid.
 
6:05 PM
it is beyond me why so much of my kids' grey matter is occupied with rote formulae
 
Does anyone know if the ESEA has been renewed since the ESSA?
 
@copper.hat Because that is the way it has been taught for more than 100 years.
 
i never heard of pemdos (or whatever) until my kids went to elementary school
 
that maybe also reflects our decentralized method of education. to address 50+ sets of standards, you might very well want to be sure that you have 50+ sections in the textbook.
 
one would imagine each state would want the best for itself?
 
6:07 PM
@Thorgott Because we can only say that aH=H if and only if a$\in $H where H is a subgroup of G. So $a<b>\ne <b>$ we can only say this much. But the answer goes one step ahead and says a<b>=G\<b>. This is what I don't understand.
 
in large states there is some degree of oversight over this, in small states you literally have enterprising textbook authors codifying their textbooks into the state standards.
because nobody is watching or cares.
 
@leslietownes This comes from the ESSA, which was renewed during the Obama administration. I don't believe there has been a renewal since then. https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/1177/text

You can CTRL + F on "Mathematics" to read all of the text
I don't see anything addressing mathematics teaching standards in particular, but it's worth reading
 
a statute is worth reading? :) come on, man.
 
I had to do that for a living at one point in my life. Printed out the whole thing.
I recycled my highlighted + notes copy of that statute
years ago
 
skimming the TOC it looks like a classic example of using certain controls over money in an attempt to influence structure, but not directly mandating structure.
 
6:09 PM
makes a case for a dictatorship
jk
 
a realist might ask, what's the difference. i don't know.
 
I don't at all miss my job being reliant on ESSA funding
Not one bit
Spent days reading that text and figuring out how to implement its standards at the state level for compliance
 
How can I reply to my own previous message or link it?
 
@Koro do you understand that distinct cosets are disjoint?
 
Yes @Thorgott
 
6:12 PM
do you understand that <b> has only two cosets?
 
@Thorgott No. I think 3 cosets
 
@Koro If you hover over the message, a triangle will appear on the left. Click on this, and note the "permalink" link in the box which pops up. That permalink will have a numerical string near the end (probably something like 58319xxx). This is the comments ID, which I believe is assigned sequentially, across all SE chat, since the dawn of time in 2009 or so.
 
<b>, a<b>, $a^2<b>$ @Thor
 
To ping that message, start a new message with :58319xxx.
 
6:14 PM
how many elements does each coset have? how many elements does the group have?
 
@XanderHenderson Like this, for example: :58319436 Like this, for example:
@leslietownes No, I am pinging the future.
 
:58319434
not working @Xander
 
:5728342936579236 i am tagging messages in the future. hello, it's me.
 
@Koro You have to have a message beyond just the comment id.
Just the comment ID won't do anything at all.
 
@Thorgott Each coset should have 3 ...Ah I see. So two cosets only!
 
6:17 PM
wow, that's creepy.
 
3 will make total elements 9 which is contradictory
 
@leslietownes Isn't it?
In any event, I really need to go.
Bye.
 
Bye @XanderHenderson. Thanks :-)
 
yup, so do you now see why the claim holds true
 
@Koro tagging my old message to see if it works.
It does ! Yay!
@Thorgott thinking
I got it Thorgott. Thanks a lot man. You're amazing :-)
 
6:21 PM
nice
here's a funny alternative argument: if there is only one element of order 2, it is central. the order 2 subgroup it generates is necessarily the entire center. the center is a normal subgroup and the quotient has order 3, so is necessarily cyclic. however, the quotient of a group by its center cannot be cyclic and non-trivial. contradiction.
 
that's one of my favorite facts about finite group theory.
 
@Thorgott I have yet to study that result Thor. The result looks fantastic
 
what happens if we have an infinite measure is the bounded convergence theorem?
 
@leslietownes which one?
 
*is=in
 
6:33 PM
67
Q: If $G/Z(G)$ is cyclic, then $G$ is abelian

Altar EgoContinuing my work through Dummit & Foote's "Abstract Algebra", 3.1.36 asks the following (which is exactly the same as exercise 5 in this related MSE answer): Prove that if $G/Z(G)$ is cyclic, then $G$ is abelian. [If $G/Z(G)$ is cyclic with generator $xZ(G)$, show that every element of $G$ ...

 
that's not a finite group theory fact :P
 
captious.
 
group theory in impenetrable
 
I'm debating on whether I'm even going to try to relearn group/ring theory
 
i really like rose's book, in dover reprint. there's a bit of a learning curve, i think the exercise above is on page 2, or something. but it's got great exercises.
 
6:43 PM
i can see its utility, but i just have zero intuition
 
Me too. Almost every proof I dealt with while in abstract algebra felt like an entirely new problem which requires some trick to finish
Analysis is a lot more tangible to me
 
@leslietownes Rose's book?
on group theory?
 
yeah.
 
ok
 
"a course on group theory" available new for about $10 US and probably also available via illegal means for less than $10.
 
6:50 PM
Speaking of textbooks
 
it reminds me a little bit of serre's course in arithmetic because it gets very real very quickly. but all of it is good.
 
Back when I taught, I had written my own notes to teach a class for 4 semesters because every textbook was abysmal. My colleagues asked me why didn't I bother to publish it.

1) there was nothing novel about it and everyone in industry knows that material
2) why in the world would you want students paying $100+ for code they could easily Google
 
not to be confused with Humphrey's "A course in Group Theory" or Robinson's "A Course in the Theory of Groups"
 
my favorite book on linear algebra? "Linear Algebra," of course.
math might actually be less confusing if copyright could be asserted in titles.
clarinetist another side of that is if it's not going to be in every classroom in the country the money involved for you is relatively low. bringing the focus to the only important thing, which is money.
 
So I've heard. Lol.

Thus more work for wages that would be less than I would be getting in retail.
Someone tried to justify that to me by saying that I could be famous and thus get people to enroll in my class (enrollment was a struggle, thus cutting my adjunct pay)
Lol
 
6:59 PM
"you could be famous" is the story of the 21st century.
if you won't do it for anything else, do it for attention. get an A in this.
so much of academia is premised on the idea that attention or involvement is currency.
they might make my wife chair of her department next year. she's trying any way out of that. it's just more work, no upside, people only get mad at you.
but you're chair of something. don't you want to be chair of something? all eyes will be on you!
 
Reminds me of the two-word phrase I heard when administrators tried to get faculty to do something:
credit release
 
my friend at cambridge gets to walk on the grass in various sections of his campus where non faculty are not allowed to walk on the grass.
that's payment, of a kind
 
LOL that's ridiculous
 
i told him, if i were you i'd run out there every day and roll around on the grass like a puppy. that's what you're being paid in, so get it.
he told me this was stupid.
 
Being an adjunct for two years and working with administration on data work for two years has given me quite a negative outlook on academia. Have you seen the Spring 2021 enrollment figures from the US National Center for Education Statistics?
 
7:06 PM
would it surprise you if my answer were no? :)
i expect they're down?
 
This was the headline from the Chronicle two days ago:

*Spring Enrollment’s Final Count Is In. Colleges Lost 600,000 Students.*
Enrollment losses were particularly steep of the 18-24 years of age group, and two-year public colleges
 
my wife's college had an uptick in enrollment somehow, although they serve a lot of nontraditional students.
and their retention numbers are not great
 
The narrative that was going around was that people would be lacking the "college experience" at the 4-years, so the 2-year schools would see increased enrollment
Public 2-years saw a 9.5% drop year over year
whereas, for undergrad enrollment, public 4-years saw a 1.9% drop year over year
 
people are just realizing there's no future anymore. happy 2021, everybody.
 
Graduate enrollment, though, interestingly increased overall
 
7:11 PM
i can see that. it's a way of waiting out an uncertain economy.
for people who are positioned to do it.
 
That's what I suspect. Though I think it's just delaying the inevitable - job searching has been tough all around, as I've been in touch with former students
 
i graduated simultaneously with the late 2000s crisis. i fumbled around with a postdoc, nothing got better, dove into more school.
 
The only option for me at this point would be to pursue a PhD, probably on top of a full-time job.

I did that for a year with a probability + measure theory sequence. Can't do it again.
I suspect that more entry-level positions will require master's degrees, within 10 years from now
My wife works in sales at a bike shop with a bachelors in music, but some of her colleagues are STEM master's graduates
 
i knew a guy in grad school who worked at radio shack (maybe dating myself a bit here) throughout grad school and then he just kept doing that instead of taking a next academic step.
my wife worked as a fitness instructor at a YMCA throughout her phd education. i don't think any of her advisors had any experience in this kind of world, where you're also doing this other work. maybe some of them did.
she could go back to that now and maybe not earn that much less than she's getting from being a professor of something.
 
I mean, what's the point of doing anything else when the only clear aim of an education is to prepare people to get their PhDs and certify them as researchers?

I say this as a former faculty member. I haven't been able to justify why else the education system is the way it is.
I've heard that academics will talk poorly of people who are pursuing non-academic, "lesser" interests
though I haven't seen this behavior myself
 
7:17 PM
my wife got a lot of that in grad school. a whole lot of that.
 
Well, when you can make more doing that than probably working in a research lab, it makes sense to stick with the fitness instructor position, no?
There seems to also be this element of sacrificing oneself for academia that's expected of people
 
it was a lot of characterization of alternate routes as opting out, quitting, failing at something. and yes if you haven't internalized academia it's harder to understand
my wife is on a short list for a non academic job now, because she is under the impression that she may have failed at something by having a tenured position in an academic department.
this is wildly revolutionary.
 
Lol
Wow
I mean, some people would die to have that. But if her interests are elsewhere, that's great
It is hard for me to take academia seriously when I keep hearing the word "equity" thrown around. Graduate school is the antithesis of equity.
 
oh, don't get me started.
 
EM4
question for graduate school.
 
7:20 PM
haha, perfect timing.
 
EM4
do they look at overall gpa or major gpa?
 
They will look at your transcript. Period.
 
EM4
they will have fun like damn this kid got a B in Real Analysis he loves suffering.
 
i think this varies enormously from department to department, but broadly, anything super low is going to raise eyebrows anywhere, and anything that's just static in the mix, who cares.
 
Anything else they nitpick beyond that is extremely subject-specific and department-specific
For example, you are not going to get into a good stats school if you don't have excellent grades in multivariable calc, real analysis, and linear algebra. I know they definitely didn't care about my abstract algebra grades.
 
7:23 PM
my worst grade in college was a C+ in linear algebra. i later got a phd, in what you might describe as linear algebra, from the same department that employed the guy who gave me the C+. i think they understood that guy. a different department may have looked at that differently.
 
Now that is an interesting situation
 
it's very hard, if you're looking across a group of candidates, to focus on a candidate who has a sort of repeated pattern of lower grades in various things, vs. someone who doesn't. even if the someone who doesn't went to a "worse school" (quotes meaning i don't endorse the concept).
but i don't think it's decisive.
it's just part of the soup
 
EM4
I am asking my friend is on grad school was like get good grades and classes interest you but are hard as hell. Then he says they mostly look at your math gpa.
which I found it odd.
 
@EM4 Are you looking to do a PhD or master's? If a PhD, do you know what your research topic may be?
 
i think it's fair to say, nobody is going to give a s--- if you got a C in renaissance literature.
 
EM4
7:26 PM
I am going for master's.
 
math exceptionalism is a thing. i think broadly, people do not see performance in other subjects as probative of performance in math.
 
@EM4 Are you looking to do a PhD afterward, or go into industry, and if industry, what are you considering?
 
but there's the practical question of, if it's between X who has this record and didn't get a C in basketweaving, and Y who has the same record and did, that's where maybe you see the cut being made.
 
EM4
@Clarinetist I don't know yet.
 
i knew several students in my grad program who were barely verbal. they would have had awful scores on the GRE in that department. i don't think anyone cared.
 
EM4
7:28 PM
I got into mathematics of the love of Differential Equations and Complex Analysis hahahaa.
 
but often it's more of a relative thing. if A has X, Y, Z, and B has X and Y only, you might go with A. even if Z doesn't matter too much.
 
I would *strongly* suggest, then, not committing to enroll in grad school unless you are sure what your next step would be.

I see way, way too many people going to grad school because they think it's the next logical step after an undergrad, end up dropping out, and then get a job that someone with a bachelor's degree could get. Grad school is more than that. If you want an opportunity to really zero into something, grad school is the time to do it.
I know what I'm saying sounds harsh, but my undergraduate advisor gave me similar advice in my undergrad - and it was honestly the best choice I made to go straight into industry and figure out where I wanted to take my education afterward
 
i'd been burned by a startup as an undergrad so i just went into grad school, as clarinetist describes, as a kind of default, f this kind of situation. i don't use any of what i learned then now.
 
insert rant here about the utility of doing a PhD in astrostatistics
 
is that real?
one of my friends once had a boyfriend for a few weeks who had a phd in astro something and when we fact checked it, the school did not offer that degree.
 
7:34 PM
Yes. I know several people who got accepted from a research-university-that-shall-not-be-named to do a PhD in statistics, specializing in astrostatistics
 
astrostatics seems in the ballpark.
 
I think the justification was that was what would pull them to get their PhD funded. I would not want to pigeonhole myself like that
 
it sounds almost real, but i'm not convinced that it's real.
my wife runs into this a lot where it's like, how many areas do you say your work could impact, before you're just talking garbage. i always say, less is more. but i'm also the person who doesn't work in academia anymore.
 
EM4
does the industry has differential equations aspect.
 
Overspecialization is a real problem in academia, to the point where people get overly protective and feel the need to justify themselves constantly
@EM4 Quantitative finance is one example, but I don't claim to know how to get hired into that field. Do some searching into stochastic differential equations in finance.
 
EM4
7:40 PM
oh yes I forgot this LOL.
and I need to learn some coding.
 
But note: the differential equations aspect is only one small part of it. You need a substantial background in probability (and yes, coding) to even know where to begin with that material.
 
EM4
I finish all of my math courses, but I will be taking couple math classes my school offers like finance mathematics and probability models.
 
i do not have a huge amount of finance interview experience. one time i did have an interview where the guy pushed some code to me and asked what i'd add to it. before i added to it, i said, 'this is going to freeze if you push the empty list to it, there's no initial condition.'
did not get the callback.
be smart but not too smart
 
@EM4 Have you taken measure-theoretic probability? (Fine if you haven't; in the US, it's usually a graduate-level class.) That's usually an assumed prereq prior to learning about SDEs
 
math people only know corner conditions and don't know what's really happening. i think i fell over that tripwire.
larry evans has a good book about SDEs, i think
 
EM4
7:45 PM
I have no idea what that is @Clarinetist but now I am interested on it.
 
maybe just a set of notes. i'm googling it.
 
@EM4 The prerequisite is analysis at the level of Rudin. Exposure to complex analysis, topology, and functional analysis would be helpful.

Basically, imagine re-constructing probability using axioms, theorems, and proofs like you do in analysis. Example textbook: Probability Theory by Klenke.
 
EM4
sweet I will be on it.
functional analysis prerequisite is what?
 
Be warned: it is super difficult, in my experience, to do it on your own
I don't know the answer to that question, unfortunately. I've only picked up bits and pieces from having to learn measure-theoretic probability.
 
EM4
thank you very much.
 
8:10 PM
functional analysis prerequisites, to my mind, would be, something resembling a course in finite-dimensional linear algebra, and something resembling a course in real analysis, not just on R but with some kind of abstract understanding of topology or convergence outside of sequences of real numbers.
 
@TedShifrin , I was attempting to wrap up the problem:

$\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{\|a+h\| - \bigg(\|a\| + \frac{a\cdot h}{\|a\|}\bigg)}{\|h\|} = 0$

from your problem set. I've done the first part. I am just trying to deduce what the linear map should be to satisfy the difference quotient. It appears to me that the linear map should be $\frac{x}{\|x\|}$, but when attempting to perform a sanity check that this is a linear map, things fall apart.
 
8:31 PM
You're confusing constants and variables?
 
8:41 PM
@Clarinetist why not a phd in astrostatistics? sounds like another name for signal processing
 
why is $dim(SO(4)) = 6$?
Is it because there are 6 possible planes of rotation?
 
How do you count dimensions? Lie algebra of skew-symmetric matrices is easiest.
 
Just wondering if there was an intuitive way to understand why it is 6-dimensional
 
Your last question is no good.
 
Maybe I am being silly, but $SO(3)$ is 3-dimensional because I can rotate about the x,y,z axes respectively. Is that an incorrect understanding?
 
8:49 PM
You understand what an orthogonal matrix is? Columns form an orthonormal basis.
Not really correct.
 
I looked at that being the case. So What I "expected" to occur to show that it is linear (assuming $a$ and $b$ are vectors:

$\frac{a + b}{\|a + b\|} = \frac{a}{\|a\|} + \frac{b}{\|b\|}$

but what ends up happening: $\frac{a}{\|a+b\|} + \frac{b}{\|a+b\|}$
 
In the $3$ case, first vector varies over a sphere, so 2 degrees of freedom. Second vector varies over a circle orthogonal to first. So 1 degree of freedom. Third vector uniquely determined. So $2+1=3$.
Why did you change from the original limit notation? Fit it into the definition of the derivative.
 
Oh I've shown that the derivative is a linear operator. I was attempting to deduce what $Df(x)$ was specifically.
because that is by a definition a linear map.
 
Write $Df(a)$.
That fits what you have.
 
Is there no link between the number of LI planes I can rotate in $n$-space and the dimension of $SO(n)$?
 

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