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11:00 PM
that isnt the answe
 
If you look at my comments on main (not that you would), lots of time I'm saying things don't make sense :P
 
true. i have been spoiled a little at home.
 
i think i'll never return
bye
 
that is emotional blackmail. you are trying that on an irishman?
 
It's not our fault it's not the answer. Good luck.
 
11:01 PM
i am working on my patience.
 
@copper.hat making statements precise requires most of the work in maths tbh (imo)
 
yes, and it sharpens our thinking too.
 
Using language correctly is difficult, especially in a non-native language. So a little compassion is recommended.
 
i am (at least i hope i am) tolerant of language issues (as long as i can detect that this is the issue).
 
oh, to keep you guys updated: I asked my algebraic geometry teacher to skip his classes
 
11:05 PM
but entitlement is a complete turnoff for me
 
Nicolas exceeded his allotted patience, and I have no idea what the snit was at the end.
 
despite liking the subject, it's been too much for me
 
you asked to skip or you asked your teacher to skip?
 
I asked to skip, LOL
 
@copper You would not have survived teaching in the modern era ... preponderance of entitlement.
 
11:06 PM
whew!
 
Did you explain why, Lucas, and apologize?
 
yes, I did
 
I definitely think the ending to that whole saga was rushed
 
I still think you're taking too heavy a load, especially with COVID and zoom as classes.
 
not the saga itself, that one was long, but the ending didn't have a lot of buildup
 
11:07 PM
@Here, yes, but I had already said people were tired of it.
 
yeah I agree
 
I'm gonna make through it, I hope
 
He's frustrated and exhausted, presumably. But I'm not going to cry that he's done with us.
 
@TedShifrin i have taught a few classes, but mostly at the university level. but luckily i never encountered the modern mindset. generally folks were more or less engaged.
 
indeed
 
11:07 PM
I'm keeping up with my introduction to analysis on manifolds, at least
 
@copper Obviously, I've taught all my career at the university level, with the exception of a few guest appearances in high schools.
 
I was a T.A for one semester and it was a lot harder than I thought
 
Attitudes are very different now from the 80s.
 
groups and topology are not being a big matter so it's fine. just more... 3 or 4 days and I'll be done. back to the 'natural' rhythm
 
My previous experience was teaching math olympiad dudes but those dudes did everything on their ownkids
 
11:08 PM
@TedShifrin of course, i did not mean to draw a comparison, just that my experience was more where folkds respected the teacher
 
those kids*
 
OK, Lucas. Oh, math olympiad dudes are too smart for me. I had one, actually, in the AOPS precalculus class I taught 3 years ago. He was amazing.
 
Yeah, teaching people who aren't already super motivated is definitely way more challenging
 
there was a berkeley hs lad on here recently, way above my mathematical level, i put him in contact with some local group that deals with such precociousness.
 
@Ted: so he was a highschooler, I presume?
 
11:10 PM
@TedShifrin I am reviewing linear algebra so the plane is solution of system that looks like a flat surface on which a straight line joining any two points on it would wholly lie from 3rd dimension but we don't deduce it using normal vector,dot product and more advance concepts. Also i apologize for not using logical quantifier which kinda confused you all.
 
Yes, tenth grade. He was one of the 10 junior olympiad winners in the country.
He never told me, as he had quit attending the class the last few times. The guy running the school told me.
 
@HereToRelax the key is motivation.
 
I agree completely
 
@user863565 You have to come to terms with what is expected in the problem. I have explained that you can show that one of the vectors can be written as a combination of the other two, and those two either span a plane or they are collinear.
 
i was just telling that to a ceo at lunch yesterday :-) you can pull people but you can't push then and expect them to do your bidding.
 
11:13 PM
@copper Over my career, I taught a handful of students who were truly impressive and I knew would far exceed my accomplishments. One has been tenured and in his second round of being department head at Stanford.
 
@TedShifrin ok so I will try to prove your statement thank you.
 
@TedShifrin awesome. it must be rewarding to even be somewhere on their path.
 
Have fun, @user863565.
 
not having a white board is a huge impediment to me ability to teach or at least communicate
 
The Stanford guy and I are close friends, and I was visiting him and his family annually until the fires hit two years ago. Then COVID. I'm hoping to make a trek to the Bay Area soon, although I'm worried my neck and back won't make the 8-hour drive.
 
11:15 PM
say $f\colon \mathbb{R}^m \to \mathbb{R}^n$ is differentiable at $U \subseteq \mathbb{R}^n$. should I think of $f''$ as a function $U \to \mathrm{Hom}(\mathbb{R}^m, \mathrm{Hom}(\mathbb{R}^m, \mathbb{R}^n))$?
 
@TedShifrin i am beginning to appreciate such concerns, sry to hear it.
 
@TedShifrin you too 👍
 
Usually, it's the associated bilinear form, @Lucas.
 
alright.
 
i think of $f''$ as a matrix :-).
but i am an engineer.
 
11:17 PM
I suppose that $f^{(k)}$ is taken to be the associated $k$-linear form?
@copper.hat the Hessian?
 
Yes, @Lucas.
 
yup.
 
so yeah, the associated bilinear form lol
 
So it's interesting that differentiability in your sense of $f'$ actually gives you the symmetry that we usually prove by using $C^2$.
 
@LucasHenrique much of my earlier life was in design with continuous parameter optimisation. if one could even approximate the Hessian it could be used to great effect.
 
11:19 PM
higher degree expansion of functions defined on $\dim > 1$ spaces looks messy.
 
Welcome to the world of tensors.
 
@TedShifrin so my advanced linear algebra professor wasn't lying!
 
Maybe I'm lying.
 
@LucasHenrique many forms of tensors appear in mechanics, physics.
 
so @Ted, he told us that a tensor is simply an element of $M\otimes N$. but everywhere that geometry comes up, a tensor is something like an element of $\underbrace{V\otimes\cdots\otimes V}_\text{p times} \otimes \underbrace{V^*\otimes \cdots \otimes V^*}_\text{q times}$. why?
ok, fixed
 
11:22 PM
the difference is that in engineering each individual compnent of a tensor has its own name and physical significance. to a mathematician they are all just elements.
i myself get tensor and tensor as every day passes by.
 
people never agree on what a tensor is
 
I love this video
 
a tensor is either a normal abstract algebra thing, or it's like twenty million different numbers that transform according to some law. no in between.
i was talking about von neumann tensor products this morning. quickest route to stuff where it seems like you might need a matrix of matrices. often very short and simple proofs, you just need to spend months understanding the formalism first.
 
@LucasHenrique thanks! that made me laugh :-)
 
11:34 PM
@leslietownes oh, we studied tensor algebra in that course
tensor algebra, exterior algebra, symmetric algebra...
 
if you're ever reviewing or editing a paper in mathematical physics, and they do stuff with tensors of operators, you need to find out right away if there is a coordinate free transformation on the underlying space that implements their formulas, and if there's not, you should begin to get very nervous.
 
I just don't know where the "$(p,q)$-tensor" thing comes from
 
one time i wrote a referee report which was "this paper seems very good except it assumes that this operator-valued function is continuous and i have no idea if it is or not, which is necessary to lemmas 2 and 3. [several reasons why the obvious approaches to proving continuity didn't work]." it ended up being published in a physics journal and not a math journal.
2
the grass is greener.
 
@LucasHenrique the problem is that, for some reason, the history gets eliminated.
 
the thing is, the function might be continuous. i still wake up thinking about it sometimes.
 
11:38 PM
that's funny.
 
it's just very easy to write down infinite series that look 'nice enough.' it was a case of that. it was nice, i just don't know if it was nice enough.
 
@leslietownes I just love this. mocking physicists about the lack of rigorosity never gets boring
 
what bothers me about it is that half of the time their formulas turn out to be true. then the egg is really on our face.
i remember thinking when reviewing the paper, did the author just never take a class on operator theory, or are they the next nobel prize winner? and i still don't know.
 
also the most annoying technical questions when i was trying to get my thesis approved so i could graduate were from the physicist on my committee. really, really good questions.
i wanted to say "you understand that the outside committee member is just supposed to sign this thing, right?" but his questions were too good. he even caught a small mistake that i and my advisor completely missed.
i don't think he'd even spent a lot of time with my thesis. he hadn't read any of the definitions.
 
11:43 PM
in mid career we had (sold) a tool that checked if two designs (FSMs) were the same. they were used to avoid expensive simulation. i found a bug where it assumed some unconnected input was in fact connected to zero.
 
just out of curiosity, what was your thesis about?
 
the chip was already on the way to the fab. i called the application engineer and asked, as nonchalantly as i could, hey eric, were there umm any floating inputs? he replied yeah, i meant to ask you about that but i tied it to ground (zero) just in case, why do you ask? oh, nothing really just wondering. (it could have been an unmitigated disaster otherwise.)
that is what i lose sleep over.
 
so we can all take a fond pop at the physicists in our life, but let's remain respectful of their otherworldly abilities.
oh wow.
 
i am anxious even telling that story
 
the good news about most theses is errors are both fixable, cheap to fix, and harmless. something on its way to the fab...
 
11:45 PM
that is why i am a nervous nelly :-)
i'll bet almost every electronic device you have has parts designed or verified with software i wrote.
my only claim to fame.
and i am still working. what is up with that.
 
that's really cool.
 
wow, that's pretty awesome
 
we did a case once with the guy who invented PCR. really eccentric person, made a wreck i think partially by the fact that about a billion people made a billion dollars off of his work and he didn't.
 
thanks :-). i'll take what i can get.
i know him
i met him
cary mullis
'know' him.
 
yeah, same. what he came up with was very creative but he is the last person you would want in a courtroom.
 
11:47 PM
unless it was the guy who really invented it :-)
 
or would want. i see that he passed away.
 
i remember him telling a story about picking his noise while taking a dump.
 
seems like everybody is doing that.
 
nose i mean
well, he analysed his nose pickings and found stuff from his gut
this is cocktail party talk for him
 
biochemists are something else.
 
11:49 PM
i thought it hilarious, engineerins are not know for social graces, so this was great
not quite the big bucks back then. my wife did marketing for pcr
all by bio friends are rolling in it now.
that's funny. i cant imagine a judge putting up with kary
 
there was too long of a gap between when it was scalable/fully realized and when it was invented, to benefit the inventor. pharma has a longstanding version of this problem.
if a drug takes longer than the patent term for anybody to prove that it's better than other stuff, it will not be developed, even if it's better than other stuff. the industry can't wait and you need the IP protection.
 
modern witch doctors.
 
he was assigned a minder whose job was basically to keep him out of flophouses and juke joints during the trial.
 
in mullis' case he developed something truly useful
 
we had to do this another time with another inventor. literally someone just to keep them out of trouble.
 
11:52 PM
they really should make them happy.
that is funny. a blast from the past in an unexpected place!
 
it's crazy to me that PCR was invented when it was invented. people didn't even have commercial thermocyclers. you'd move your stuff from one batch of water at one temperature, manually, to another batch of water. and you'd have to add in new polymerase every cycle.
so insane that it was thought up, and worked.
 
it was incredibly unstable
 
hence kary not being a billionaire
 
amazing that it was used in court
 
it was thought there would be a benefit to having Mr. PCR involved. you know, like a brand name. Einstein would have fit the bill.
 
11:54 PM
people do not understand the process/science behind it all but demand it.
 
then people realized what they had gotten themselves into.
 
he was a peculiar lad.
and i have seen peculiar.
not dangerous peculiar, but not boardroom material.
 
there are some cool newer methods of amplification that are isothermal and not only isothermal but isothermal around room temperature and the reagents don't need special storage. could be very cool for the developing world.
 
yes, but he really did invent the idea.
often there are competitors, but he deserved the glory.
in a quite dark room.
that is cool! i need to stretch my legs.
 
no it's rare where something isn't a combination of 20 million other things. PCR just popped out of one person's head. very cool. i am often skeptical about invention in my line of work, but that one counts.
 

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