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6:00 PM
because yoneda is one of them
 
@MikeMiller yeah i thought about proving this for a bit
draw the associahedra
OPERADS SON
 
@BalarkaSen just use the explicit construction
define an isomorphism between the quotients of the free modules
 
no
i refuse
@LeakyNun lmao
 
@LeakyNun it's called a modification
 
@MikeMiller can a heptahedron be an associahedron? thought those needed a catalan number of vertices
 
6:04 PM
Operadsson is a typical Norwegian name
 
can confirm, I have a Norwegian friend by that name
 
@Thorgott lol only nerds call that a modification
 
Astyx
 
wtf man, that's what it's called
the 3-morphisms in the 3-category of categories
 
hello, i would like to modify my window please, kids threw stones at it and broke it
i get pranked by kids everyday because i look like a retart
in fact i was bullied constantly in high school
 
6:09 PM
“Let me get you a naturally isomorphic window”
 
Snapdragon
 
yeah hello, the kids broke my window, could I please have a cobordant one
 
gets a window with 58 genus
 
Lmao
A more broken window
 
what would a torus mirror do
i wonder
 
6:12 PM
your window: boring, flat, no structure, no curvature
my window: non-constant sectional curvature, three different algebra structures in (co)homology, high genus, not stably parallelizable
3
 
my curvature lol
 
“Good luck seeing me! I’m hiding behind 3 different algebra structures”
 
break that, kids
 
real life Klein bottle model but real life Klein bottle model
 
the kids only broke my window cause they were trying to do string topology
 
6:15 PM
overton window but its about political correctness of having higher genus windows
 
how important is it to know the computation of the cohomology ring of RP^n for other practical examples
 
That's done through mayer vietoris right?
 
MV doesn't say anything about the ring structure
 
Ok I don't know what cohomology ring is then
 
its one of a kind computation, RP^n and CP^n
doesnt really pop up anywhere
 
6:21 PM
Just another Turing machine basically
 
@BalarkaSen good to know thanks!
 
Silly question : can I be sure that my integral converges : f is Lipschitz so a.e differentiable, $\phi$ has compact support, $u_n$ converges to $u$ in L^1. The integral is $$\int u_n \nabla f \cdot \nabla \phi $$ as $n\to\infty$
 
you should just know what it mean geometrically. the element of H^1(RP^n; Z/2) is generated by the cochain which takes value 1 on smooth, singular 1-simplices in RP^n transverse to RP^(n-1), and 0 elsewhere
if you call this element a, then a^2 actually takes value 1 on smooth, singular simplices in RP^n transverse to RP^(n-2) = intersection of two RP^(n-1)'s in RP^n
 
computing the cohomology ring of RP^n/CP^n/HP^n is more or less equivalent to calculating that the top Stiefel-Whitney/Chern class of the tautological bundle is a generator
which is a relevant fact
 
@Thorgott thanks for nothing
 
6:25 PM
not relevant to you, but relevant
 
so all the way up to a^n, you get a cochain which takes value 1 on smooth, singular n-simplices transverse to RP^0 = a point in RP^n
 
@BalarkaSen thanks, I'll think about that, we did draw such a picture. This also holds for the other generators right?
 
but a^(n+1) = 0
 
when the dimensions add up correctly
 
because n+1 copies of RP^(n-1) in RP^n intersect in nullset generically
@user2103480 the other generators are a^i, yes
 
6:25 PM
basically by induction I guess
 
It's good to just think about RP^n as R^n
 
I'm using the corresponding the fact for HP^n right as we're speaking
 
except you cannot move things to be parallel, they'll keep intersecting if dimension tells you to intersect
the proof is actually just this. all this rigmarole for making this geometry precise
 
I'm really mad at logic for not being useful outside of computer science atm
I felt comfortable there man
diagonalization goes brrr
 
you'll get used to this. algorithmic topology is a thing
 
6:29 PM
dont be mad at logic, be mad at yourself
 
so there you might have more about logic
 
Make logic the new algebraic geometry
 
@Thorgott very fair objection
@BalarkaSen I'd suppose the questions aren't logical in nature
 
Model theorists seem to do stuff with alg. geo. and arith. geo.
Maybe one day
 
descriptive complexity is very interesting but had its peak in the 70s and 80s
 
6:31 PM
i dont know logic so its hard for me to tell
 
guys I'm using "useful" in the real world sense
 
@user2103480 maybe change your mind about this usage it could help
 
If logic was used in politics the world would be a better place
 
@BalarkaSen to tell the difference: descriptive complexity theory classifies least runtimes by describing the logics in which problems can be formulated
@Astyx "I used an ultrafilter to prove your argument about consumer behaviour wrong"
People really overestimate the usefulness of logic in everyday life. It's the main problem of logic to find logical formalisms that work for problems which were not formalized before
 
@user2103480 what's that, definition from first principles please
 
6:34 PM
@Thorgott case in point
 
I don't follow, can you make the point symbolically?
 
define symbol
wrecked by semiotics
 
case in $\cdot$
 
@Astyx “My opponent’s theory has quantifier elimination, so anything he says can be found out to be crap algorithmically, and this is why you should elect me.”
 
starts interpretative dance
 
6:36 PM
this chat is so cancer
 
for anyone who might care, when philosophically deriving turing machines, turing actually used a topological argument to argue the number of symbols should be finite
just proves how much of a chad he was
 
@user2103480 never seen that but am interested
 
I'll call for Ted to smack anyone who now asks in what logic this proves that he was a chad
 
Universal Chad Machine
 
@BigSocks >when you dont have access to a 1937 paper
let me check the library genius
 
6:39 PM
Sc* h*b?
 
>only copy of the paper on libgen is in greek
 
$\epsilon \rho \iota \mathcal{c}$
 
Computing is normally done by writing certain symbols on paper. We may suppose this paper is divided into squares like a child’s arithmetic book… I shall… suppose that the number of symbols which may be printed is finite. If we were to allow an infinity of symbols, then there would be symbols differing to an arbitrarily small extent.* The effect of this restriction of the number of symbols is not very serious. It is always possible to use sequences of symbols in the place of single symbols. Thus an Arabic numeral such as 17 or 999999999999999 is normally treated as a single symbol. Similarl
 
Lmaaaaao
You either have small symbols that look too similar or big ones that you can’t tell apart quickly
Kind of a reasonable justification
 
yup
 
7:40 PM
currently engaging in the sacred art of drawing S^2s, pretending they're S^4s and calling that a proof
I've come a long way
 
Why work with spheres when you could be working with the sphere spectrum
 
asking the real questions
gonna work with arbitrary sphere objects
 
7:56 PM
The two homotopy theorists I know here swear that the sphere spectrum is the best thing ever
 
@user2103480 I'll smack you instead, as I have no idea what a chad is — other than a hanging chad.
@BalarkaSen Um ... in what universe?
 
@TedShifrin R^n
 
Ah, so $\Bbb RP^n$ sits inside $\Bbb R^n$. Interesting.
 
I hope he meant R^{n+1}\{0}
 
$\Bbb RP^n$ is just $\Bbb R^n$ with wonky stuff at infinity
 
8:03 PM
2 hours ago, by Balarka Sen
because n+1 copies of RP^(n-1) in RP^n intersect in nullset generically
in this sense
 
I think of it as relevant homogeneous prime ideals of the polynomial ring in n+1 variables, much clearer that way
 
0
Q: Ant Slipping classical mechanics

monoidaltransformSuppose we have on a horizontal timetable $m\textbf{a}_{rot}=\textbf{F}-\textbf{F}_{corialis}-\textbf{F}_{centrifugal}$ where $\textbf{a}_{rot}$ is the acceleration in a rotating frame. Suppose an ant on the turntable walks from the centre at constant speed. Suppose an ant slips an experiences a...

 
@Astyx I prefer not to think of it at all
 
@Thorgott No, I meant R^n
You did not read my next sentence
2 hours ago, by Balarka Sen
except you cannot move things to be parallel, they'll keep intersecting if dimension tells you to intersect
 
smacks Astyx
 
8:05 PM
Does showing that $D_t(X) = 0$ for all curves in $(M,g)$ iff $\nabla_Y X = 0$ for all vector fields Y on M use the fact that M has to be path connected?
 
@Balarka: Sounds a lot more like $S^n$ than $\Bbb R^n$ to me.
 
Here $D_t$ is the covariant derivative
 
That is horrid notation, @Sayan.
Where's the curve?
 
It is a compactification of $\Bbb R^n$
Of course you do not disagree, so I don't understand the point.
 
Lee uses it lol, and hence my notes
 
8:06 PM
So, for every curve $\gamma$, $D_{\gamma'(t)}X = 0$ for all $t$?
 
The issue, I suppose, is that you have to turn the tangent vectors along a curve into a global vector field? This is always a pedantic issue.
 
$\Bbb{RP}^n$ is just $\Bbb R^n$ where you cannot expect intersections to reduce dimensionally if you push everything to infinity. That is how I think of it.
 
A manifold is certainly locally path-connected. I don't see that global connectedness is relevant.
@Balarka: Being more of an algebraic geometer, I think the notion of hyperplanes is key. It's not just mushy topology.
 
@TedShifrin Precisely, I do not see how global path connectedness does any difference here.
@BalarkaSen Yeah this is a very neat way of thinking. Helps in the thinking of those subspaces when calculating schubert cycles
 
8:10 PM
OK, I am sure you have more experience with projective spaces that I do, so you must be right that my picture is insufficient. I was explaining why the cohomology ring is $\Bbb F_2[\alpha]/(\alpha^{n+1})$, so I was doing mushy topology :)
 
But that is all about the hyperplane class!
 
That's right. And I explained it.
 
It's the linear embedding of $\Bbb P^{n-1}$ in $\Bbb P^n$.
Anyhow, never mind.
Sayan, why does your prof/Lee claim connectedness is relephant?
 
Which to me is a hyperplane in $\Bbb R^n$. $\Bbb R^n$ is all I can see when I, a point, sit in $\Bbb{RP}^n$.
It's the affine chart I am in
I cannot see infinity
 
not with that attitude
 
So then you miss all the topology. Plus, really, the spherical model is geometrically right. You see curvature.
 
Doesn't that only work in dim 2?
 
As you well know, all manifolds look identical if all you see is one chart.
 
It doesn't give me any reason @Ted. It just says $(M,g)$ is path connected and asks you to prove that. I can prove that statement without using path connectedness, hence my query as to why the question assumes M as path connected
 
2 hours ago, by Balarka Sen
you should just know what it mean geometrically. the element of H^1(RP^n; Z/2) is generated by the cochain which takes value 1 on smooth, singular 1-simplices in RP^n transverse to RP^(n-1), and 0 elsewhere
2 hours ago, by Balarka Sen
if you call this element a, then a^2 actually takes value 1 on smooth, singular simplices in RP^n transverse to RP^(n-2) = intersection of two RP^(n-1)'s in RP^n
 
8:13 PM
the great part of creating an online rubric when grading quizzes: you know what to expect, so you can go through them quickly
 
Seems like garbage to me, @Sayan.
 
I have explained what happens at infinity very carefully
 
the bad part: realizing that your rubric missed part of the problem breakdown and needs to be redone
 
@Semiclassic: Yes, writing a rubric the first time you teach a course is nigh impossible.
 
@Astyx No, only if you don't understand my picture well enough.
 
8:13 PM
so, redo all the ones which you've already graded
fffffffff
 
Yup, students will usually come up with a disaster you haven't anticipated.
 
lol
on this it was just that I missed that the last part of the question didn't just ask for a speed but a time too
 
Oh, that's totally your fault, then.
 
but that means i should include a rubric element for "did you convert from linear speed to revolution time correctly"
yeah
i'm mad at myself
 
D'oh
 
8:16 PM
@TedShifrin Ah that's good then
 
To be 100% clear the picture is $D^n$ with $x \sim -x$ at the boundary. All I see from the center of the disk is the interior of the disk $D^n$, but of course I can move around and see more.
This is not a controversial statement. Since when can you see the curvature of Earth while sitting in your room?
 
Do you ever see more, really?
 
the Earth doesn't have an ideal boundary
 
@BalarkaSen Jokes on you, the earth is flat
 
Do helicopters count as rooms :P
 
8:17 PM
2 hours ago, by Balarka Sen
this chat is so cancer
 
@TedShifrin I see, for example, that it is compact. If I move, I come back to a point. I also see that it is nonorientable, because my orientation changes when I come back.
I can "probe" it to gain more information.
Of course, I get all the transition functions by simply moving around.
This is how Thurston describes a lot of 3-manifolds in his book
You have to see it from sitting inside it because otherwise you're screwed.
 
How do you see it's compact from sitting in your room? Seriously.
And non-orientability is again not discernable within a chart.
Anyhow, I don't feel like pursuing this.
 
I am not just sitting in my own room. I can sit in some other room. This is how the Earth was found out to be round, by a ship moving East and coming back
 
my brain wants to say something something Foucault's pendulum but i'm probably missing the point
 
Yeah I am sure there are many other ways to prove the Earth is compact :P
 
8:23 PM
Well, Foucault appears local, but the entire line of longitude spins under your feet (which are off the ground) if you're going to see what happens in 24 hours.
 
But what I said actually happened I think
 
@TedShifrin yeah, from an external perspective you're definitely not just at one point
 
But that is one of my favorite applications of differential geometry that I always did in my undergraduate course.
It's in my text, of course.
 
i'm sad to say that Foucault's pendulum sorta eludes me. i know the idea of it but i haven't actually computed it in a long time
which is too bad because I know that the math involved gets taken up in QM for stuff like berry phase
classically it's called something else of course
 
Hmm. I guess the mathematical content of "You can tell what space you are in by probing it by taking long detours from your home and coming back" is "$X$ is determined by $\Omega X$". Which is true, homotopy theoretically. What's a homeomorphism-type counterexample?
 
8:28 PM
I need a quick knock in where to start by finding the limit of: $ 1 / (x * (\sqrt(x^2 +2) - \sqrt(x^2 - 2))) $ - I know the result must be 1/2 , so the denominator's limit needs to be 2, which means the limit of the sqrt term needs to be 2 over x ... and there I am stuck getting to the limit of $(\sqrt(x^2 + 2) - \sqrt(x^2 - 2)$ equals 2/x
 
ah yes, now you're speaking the language of the gods
 
I think the main goal of string topology is something like this. Recovering $X$ upto homeomorphisms from $\Omega X$.
 
You need to learn to type MathJax, @salbeira, as what you've written is impossible to understand.
 
Or invariants associated to $\Omega X$.
Try lens spaces, perhaps.
 
Is your picture just that every point lies in an affine space?
 
8:29 PM
Yes
 
Didnt I use $ to enter tex mode?
 
I mean, it's not just a set-theoretic statement. A picture is a picture.
 
Limit as $x$ does what, for starters, @salbeira?
 
infinity
 
You may be in math mode, but what you're typing makes no sense.
So the standard trick with expressions with square roots is always to multiply by the conjugate upstairs and downstairs.
 
8:31 PM
$$\frac{1}{n(\sqrt{n^2 + 2} - \sqrt{n^2 - 2}}$$
 
Closed parenthesis. OK, now I can understand it.
Do what I told you with multiplying by the conjugate, and you'll figure it out.
 
I might not know the word conjugate (german)
 
The point is that $(a-b)(a+b) = a^2 -b^2$
 
Ah ... we call it the 3rd binomial formula
 
I actually don't know the expression in German, although @Thor and others here do.
 
8:33 PM
So you can get rid of radicals in the denominator
 
"The" conjugate of $\sqrt a - \sqrt b$ is $\sqrt a + \sqrt b$.
 
Doing that just for the sqrt term I already reached it is equal to 4 over the conjugate
But getting a two out of the conjugate, leaving a single n there is what gets me
 
What is $$\lim_{n\to\infty}\frac{\sqrt{n^2+2}}n?$$
 
So basically \frac{4}{\sqrt{n^2 + 2} + \sqrt{n^2 - 2}} needs to be equal to 2/n ... hold on ... I remember I had MathJax working at some point for me but right now it isnt
... reading the docs of MathJax rn to understand if I need a browser plugin or not
 
Well, "basically," yes. $\sqrt{n^2+c} \approx n$ when $n$ is large.
You need to click on LaTeX in chat above right to view it, yes.
 
8:40 PM
Aaaaah thats what I was forgetting to check
Yeah you can ignore the constant for large n
 
@TedShifrin so, a curious question based on the cubic root stuff we were talking about the other day
 
Though I feel like they want to trick their students here with it once being + and once being - to disallow making a clear > or < statement when doing that on $\frac{4}{\sqrt{n^2 + 2} + \sqrt{n^2 - 2}}$
 
if i try to move up in dimensions, the next interesting case would seem to be roots of $x^5-1=(x-1)(x^4+x^3+x^2+x+1)$. ($x^4-1$ should just reduce to considering $x^2+1$ which is just Gaussian integers.)
 
Not at all a trick.
 
but in that case the roots $\omega,\omega^2,\omega^3,\omega^4$ don't seem to produce a lattice
 
8:42 PM
@Semiclassic: Now you're out of the realm of a quadratic extension, so the number theory gets way more complicated and out of my league.
 
ah
fair enough
 
No, you don't get a lattice.
 
conjugate = konjugiert (adjective)
 
do you get a lattice for a generic $x^2+cx+d=0$? it seems like not
i guess this is why quadratic extensions are interesting tho
 
8:45 PM
For extensions of Q ?
 
had in mind integer c,d
 
Yes you do
 
Welp it should be fine ignoring the constants, thanks for the heads up. (Having a master in CS and still overlooking shit like that is emberrasing)
 
what is the question
 
8:46 PM
@salbeira having a masters just means there's more for you to forget
 
you want a lattice?
 
Well, unless the polynomial is reducible
 
well, i know that the roots of x^2+x+1 generate a lattice, and of course x^2+1 does as well
oh. x^2=-cx-d. duh
yeah okay
 
yeah there's always a lattice in $\Bbb C$
 
Semiclassic was wondering what happens if you generalize to higher-degree extensions.
 
8:49 PM
i can believe it gets awful
 
whatever extension $K/\Bbb Q$ you take, you can look at rings of integers in $K$, and that gives you a free abelian subgroup of $\Bbb C$.
 
i guess the smallest interesting case would be...$x^3+1=0$?
 
No, that too is quadratic.
You keep forgetting to factor.
 
oh yeah
derp
How about $x^3-2=0$?
 
@BalarkaSen That's for imaginary extensions
 
8:51 PM
looks like $\mathbb{Q}(\sqrt[3]{2})$ is the first example listed on Wikipedia for cubic fields :P
 
Yeah, for reals, you just get it down to $\Bbb R$.
The ring of integers of that is $\Bbb Z[\sqrt[3]{2}]$
 
It's still a lattice in $R\times R$
 
trivial galois group tho
 
@Astyx Yeah I meant $\Bbb C^n$ where $n$ is degree, sorry.
 
8:53 PM
we're flying over the void of my knowledge, to be clear
my abstract algebra class acknowledged that Galois theory was a thing, but didn't actually get into it
(we did a little with extension fields. just enough that i knew it was my weakest concept there)
 
Galois group is irrelevant.
 
More like $R^{r_1}\times C^{r_2}$ where $n= r_1+2r_2$
 
you will hurt its feelings
 
but, do you actually get a lattice for $\mathbb{Z}[\sqrt[3]{2}]$?
oh. hmm, i guess you would
 
@Semiclassical $\Bbb Z[2^{1/3}]$ sits as a lattice inside $\Bbb R^3$.
 
8:57 PM
yeah
 
What is the covolume of this lattice?
 
i don't know what covolume is, so
 
volume of the quotient, I assume
 
Every lattice bounds some fundamental domain, the volume of that
 
8:58 PM
In this case you have parallelepipeds
 

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