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00:00 - 22:0022:00 - 00:00

00:09
sigh. that feeling when your student genuinely doesn't understand how bad their submission was
submission to what?
lab report
it's easily the worst submission of all my students
and they "genuinely don't know which part of it to change", per an email they just sent to me
(and the answer basically being "all of it")
that's tough. particularly if exemplars of the kind of thing that is regarded as meeting expectations are readily available.
which they aaaalways are.
sigh.
well. tbh not so much. this course, unlike the previous ones i've been involved with, -doesn't- provide samples to work with in the lab manual
but surely they've taken similar classes, or something?
00:19
eh. intro physics
so who knows
hm, ok, that's tough.
i may need to put together a sample
my hesitation is that i don't want to put a -this- report together
i never did this in a calculus class for fear that people would ape the wrong things. they won't know what the example is trying to convey vs. what it's not.
right
but like
and the usual calculus writeup is just garbage anyway. there are no exemplars.
00:20
when the paper is supposed to start with an abstract, and it doesn't
that's a bad sign
(i specifically asked for one)
and their introduction section? a single sentence
i'd say giving specific expectations is similar to providing exemplars. my wife sometimes struggles with this.
if you say there should be A, B, C, D, and you don't get anything that quite matches those things, that's a time for conversation.
yes
and there were some good reports
also, i left a bunch of written comments on her report
(pdf annotations)
i see nothing wrong in the abstract with an introduction that is a single sentence but it would really have to be the right sentence.
which i assume it isn't.
00:22
no, i mean
1) she doesn't have an abstract
my first 'in the abstract' there should be replaced with something like 'as a matter of principle.' you aren't specifying a number of sentences as much as a kind of coverage.
2) once she gets into the report, she has :

Introduction

A single sentence

Procedure
you could do that with one sentence in at least some introductions, but they apparently didn't.
the length of the intro depends on whether they chose to put their derivations there or in the analysis
i was fine with either
but no section in a written paper should consist of a single sentence
also, i told them to have a Procedure section and an Analysis section
and her report just sorta...slides from one into the other
i disagree as a matter of principle, but as a matter of practice i agree that most single sentences for most projects will not get the job done.
00:26
for context, these are supposed to be about 5 pages long in total
if this was like a 2-page report, sure
one time as a postdoc i was mentoring someone for some kind of 'honors' project. everything i got was garbled over and over. it was very confusing because they were one of the best students in the class i taught but absolutely nothing they sent me on the project made sense.
yeah
also
this is the 'honors' version of intro physics
and when i say this paper isn't passable, it's not even so by the regular course standards
so even more so by the honors standard
in my case it turned out the student was working 30 hours/week on top of 2 courses and this honors thing and life stuff was getting in the way. i had a very unpleasant conversation where i said, this is not an evaluation of you, but nothing i've seen is close to being an honors project, please preserve yourself and try again next semester.
ugh
yeah
i'm worried taht's the kind of conversation i'll need to have
this was after a referral to the campus tutoring center and some other stuff.
it was just like, this absolutely isn't working.
for good reason! i couldn't have done what she was doing even ignoring the honors project and then there was this extra stuff on top.
i dunno.
have kleenex ready.
00:30
ugh ugh ugh
i hated those days.
i definitely am prepared to be flexible with when she turns in the rewrite on this report
there could be life stuff going on, who knows.
i'd say provide exemplars except if they weren't following explicit directions they probably can't follow exemplars either
i know they have some life stuff going on (death in the family early in the semester)
that's no fun at all.
00:38
nope
don't say "so it actually seems to me like you should have fewer distractions."
i had to pull back from some work stuff earlier in the year because a family member attempted suicide in a way that led to long term disability, this is just how my humor works.
....yeah, fuck no
ALSO don't say .. i'll see myself out. i could go all night
 
4 hours later…
04:35
that's tough.
05:16
can i just say, i'd really like my friends in central time to stop scheduling meetings for noon PT.
i'm not going anywhere, but my habit is, that's when i have lunch. stay away from my lunch.
05:43
it'd be easier if their response was "yeah, i know my report sucked, but X Y Z"
but the response of "I thought my lab was pretty acceptable" when it was not...at all
05:56
Just want to make sure I am reading this right from a math paper. I am not math major, but did lots of applied math stuff. When it says
does this mean that omeag is a Polynomial in x, whose
coefficients can be complex?
And the second question one from same paper. when it says
does the above mean that omega is a root of a Polynomial in x
where this polynomial can have coefficients which are complex?

But if so, then omega itself is not a polynomial, right?
it is the roots of a polynomial?
the intention is presumably that, if $y=e^{\int \omega}$, then $y'=\omega y$
note that they write C(x), not C[x]. it's the latter that's polynomials
think C(x) is usually the field of complex-valued rational functions
06:14
0
Q: A formula that counts exactly the twin prime pairs occuring in an interval $[a,b]$ is surprisingly succinct!

AbstractSpacecraftMany other MSE users including mathlove, BillyJoe, and JyrkiLahtonen have been helpful in developing this formula. Let $p_n$ denote the $n$th prime number. Let $a \gt p_n$ and $b \lt p_{n+1}^2$ be any such integers. Their oddness or divisibility does not matter as in my previous posts, which mak...

We did it
We cracked the code
Eureka! but not quite since we still have to prove the well-known open problem
@Semiclassical you mean for the first one (since it is C(x) and not C[x], which I did not know there is difference), then omega is basically, in general, is a ratio of two polynomials in x, whose coefficients can be complex? Like this (3*x^2+2*x^2)/x ? or (3*I*x+2)/(3*x) etc...
right. that said, the paper seems pretty opaque
you may have no better option than to read Kovacic's original paper
@Semiclassical and what about the second one please? Did I read it right? The above is from the original Kovacic's paper I am reading now. I am confused about the use of "algebraic" there. Since this mean omega is a ROOT of a polynomial, right? Then how could the root be function of x?
Check out my post guys, new / succinct twin prime counting formula
06:19
@Semiclassical no. This is the 2005 version. I am reading the 1985 version from here 12000.org/my_notes/kovacic_algorithm/index.htm
ah, oops
kinda annoying to have the same title 20 years apart
@Semiclassical Yes. He wrote the second paper to add more examples. I am trying to understand the algorithm. but wanted to get over little bit of the math notation used. I am not pure math student.
hmm
"Differential field of functions"
In mathematics, differential rings, differential fields, and differential algebras are rings, fields, and algebras equipped with finitely many derivations, which are unary functions that are linear and satisfy the Leibniz product rule. A natural example of a differential field is the field of rational functions in one variable over the complex numbers, C ( t ) {\displaystyle \mathbb {C} (t)} , where the derivation is differentiation with respect to t. Differential algebra refers also to the area of mathematics...
second sentence there is relevant
I wish there is a place or book which translate some of these expressions commonly used in math, to plain English that even engineering students can understand :)
that said, i can't grok what 'algebraic over C(x)" means here
what i can say: it's not a matter of $\omega$ being a root of a polynomial
06:23
I understand that something is algebraic, if it is root of a polynomial in some field. Right?
yes. but in this case the 'polynomial' is going to a polynomial in differential operators i think
for instance, see the 'dictionary' on the top of page 3 here: math.sfsu.edu/serkan/expository/bruceSimonExpository.pdf
so "$\omega$ is algebraic over C(x)" will mean something like "$\omega$ is the solution to some linear DE"
not 100% sure on that though
@Semiclassical thanks. Will go over this link you show. look useful. Yes, I know omega will end up being solution to linear ODE, from the algorithm itself. It is just translating the math to something more easy to understand, so I can code the algorithm is the issue. But will go the ref you showed now. It should help. thanks.
good luck with that, then
I do not know anything about Galois differential theory myself. but I've seen it mentioned number of places in these papers I am looking at.
differential fields have always seemed pretty forbidding to me
yeah
06:33
Galois didn't even know any differential Galois theory and his name is on it
:)
@Nasser the trouble you'll run into is that differential algebra assumes a working knowledge of field theory in abstract algebra, including the theory of field extensions
@Semiclassical Yes. I am just trying to implement the algorithm now. it has 3 cases. The first one is the easiest one. But just want to learn a little bit of the theory first. But it is hard, since I do not have the pure math background needed.
yeah, and the paper definitely assumes you do
someone should write a book called "Galois theory for differential equations for dummies" then I will buy a copy for sure :)
hah
problem is that most people who don't know the needed abstract algebra will simply shrug their shoulders and find something else to work on
differential Galois theory is not exactly a common topic
06:47
@Semiclassical there is another topic called 'Lie symmetry group for solving ODE" which is also very useful. But I know little about Lie symmetry yet. But it can also be used to solve ODE's in way one can't using standard methods. Lie symmetry and Kovacic algorithm are both implemented in Maple and Mathematica to solve ODE's but I do not know to what extent.
The main author of Maple dsolve command has number of papers on Lie symmetry.
the examples at the top of 2.2 may be worth looking at, though they're not exactly explicit
i think i can see how case 1 shows up for the Weber and Bessel equations, but i can't see what case 2 would mean for Bessel but not Weber
@Semiclassical I assume you are talking about this part of the 1985 paper
right
for $n=0$, the Weber differential equation has the solution $y=e^{-x^2/4}$
I read this last night. It is cool that by just looking at the term called "r" in the paper, one can quickly check if there is Liouvillian solution or not.
which is presumably covered by case 1
similarly, when $n=1/2$ in the Bessel equation you have solutions $e^{\pm i x}$
what i can't see is what case 2 would represent here
it apparently works for Bessel but not Weber
07:02
I see. once I get more familiar with the algorithm, maybe I can figure this out.
(the version of the Bessel equation they refer to is Equation (3) here: encyclopediaofmath.org/wiki/…)
 
1 hour later…
08:16
$$f(a,b) = b - a + 1 + \sum_{1 \ \neq \ d \ \mid \ p_n\#} (-1)^{\omega(d)}\sum_{2 \ \nmid \ c \ \mid \ d}\left( \lfloor\dfrac{b - x_{c,d}}{d}\rfloor + \lfloor\dfrac{x_{c,d} - a}{d}\rfloor + 1 \right)$$
@user91500
Hi
@AbstractSpacecraft Hello
What do you think my formula counts?
@user91
@AbstractSpacecraft Number of primes in the interval (a,b)?
@user91500 better than that, guess again
Hint, it's worth 1M doll hairs if you can prove that it's growing with $n$
Where $a \gt p_n, b \lt p_{n+1}^2$
are any such integers and $x_{c,d} = 1 \pmod {c}, \\ x_{c,d} = -1 \pmod {d/c}$ is any integer solution
for each $c,d$
That's all the info one needs
0
Q: A formula that counts exactly the twin prime pairs occuring in an interval $[a,b]$ is surprisingly succinct!

AbstractSpacecraftLet $p_n$ denote the $n$th prime number. Let $a \gt p_n$ and $b \lt p_{n+1}^2$ be any such integers. Their oddness or divisibility does not matter as in my previous posts, which makes this formula particularly nice. An inclusion-exclusion based & modular-arithmetical counting formula for the twi...

@user91500 check it out, pls
 
3 hours later…
11:09
please, I want to learn more about n root and cube root do you have any good books about that, and please Does the Domain of Cube root is R not like square root R^{+} Thanks because I'm confusing in this question when I want to calculate the limit in the left side of 0. math.stackexchange.com/questions/4299150/…
@AbstractSpacecraft BTW, you may annoy the room regulars by excessively promoting your posts. Three mentions (including two one-boxes) within a few hours during a slow period is probably a bit much. ;)
@AbstractSpacecraft I had a look at your Python code in some of your twin prime questions. I didn't look very closely for bugs, and it appears that you've resolved those issues, but I did see several things that can be optimised.
Eg, instead of for i in range(m): if i<a: continue you should do for i in range(a, m):. Also, if a & b are integers, a // b is much more efficient than floor(a / b).
Cool! Thank you. I might have had to use floor for sympy stuff
I didn't know that about floor
But these aren't meant to be tidy programs, just tests for the formula
So I didn't put in huge coding energy "chi"
@AbstractSpacecraft Ah. Fair enough. Another option is to use Numpy. Then you can just use machine integer arithmetic.
11:20
@PM2Ring isn't the formula neat? I so rarely hear any emotional expressions from other users
I get excited about math
@AbstractSpacecraft Understood
Numpy is neat
Also yes, that would actually be 100x faster except 10x slower coding because doesn't jive well with WingWare's debugger
or any debugger because of the way it works
Just prints errors to stdout
Nuitka is a great one, works out-of-the-box.
@AbstractSpacecraft Well, kind of. It looks neat, but it's kind of hiding the mess in things like the CRT stuff. ;) But maybe there's room for some optimisation there...
I guestimate 20x speedup
The idea is to apply some math wizardry to the formula. Once we have a formula, but we didn't have one as cool as this one prior
Another thing I noticed is floor(sqrt(x)) inside a multiply nested loop. That's a bit slow. You could make a table for that. Another option is to create a loop that avoids doing the square root calculation. I wrote a little demo...
As you can see, the generator is about 100× faster.
11:27
Whoah! 100 times faster?
I will copy / paste your code for later
I copied it to also see how you do time timing code. I've never profiled any of my python projects
Oh, that uses a crude ipython timing tool, it's not standard Python. But I have lots of examples of proper timing code on SO. Let me find one...
@PM2Ring next math attack on the formula I'm going to try is $\lfloor \dfrac{x}{d}\rfloor = \dfrac{x - x_{(d)}}{d}$
Where $x_{(d)}$ is the least residue modulo $d$ of $x$ in $\Bbb{Z}$.
Trouble is here you can't combine $x_{(d)}$ terms as per usual, because their integerized value added means something in the counting formula
You can hope for a bound perhaps though
Usually, we use the timeit module to do accurate timings. Timing generators: stackoverflow.com/a/51623477/4014959 Timing non-function code: stackoverflow.com/a/52670777/4014959 A Fibonacci function example using time instead of timeit stackoverflow.com/a/40683466/4014959 An insanely large example, counting inversions in an array, stackoverflow.com/a/47845960/4014959 ;)
@AbstractSpacecraft Obviously, that formula is the key to sieving primes in an interval. :) In code, you can just use floor division, of course.
BTW, there's a neat trick to do ceil division using Python's floor division operator. ceil(a/b) is -(-a // b)
11:48
Yes, I used that formula (in math though) $-\lfloor x \rfloor = \lceil - x \rceil$ converting the $a$ expression to floor from ceil. I thought it would be used in relation to $\pi(x)$, but it turns out not
 
2 hours later…
13:29
swiper no swiping
oh myaaan
 
5 hours later…
18:00
If $f(M)$ is an embedded submanifold of $N$, then $f:M\rightarrow N$ is smooth iff $f:M\rightarrow f(M)$ is smooth, right?
18:54
I really want to answer this question on Physics SE with "It depends---are you a frequentist, or a Bayesian?"
7
Q: What does the term "half life" mean for a single radioactive particle?

AnkitI was introduced to the term half life as the time it takes for the number of radioactive nuclei to become half of its initial value in a radioactive sample. But there is a question in "Concept of Physics by HC Verma}" which says that a free neutron decays with a "half life" of 14 minutes. Now th...

i'm not saying do it, but i'd find it funny.
19:15
@annav but is that probability bayesian or frequentist? — Juan Perez yesterday
are there applications for non-physical wave equation solutions?
@LeakyNun Ha! Someone else had the same snark. But they posted it on an answer, and no one reads those. :P
I'm reading lecture notes in which my professor is arguing that a certain bounded linear operator $T$ from a Banach space to itself has $0$ as a spectral value. He claims it suffices to find a sequence of points $x_n$ such that $||x_n|| =1$ but $||Tx_n|| \to 0$.
Why does this suffice to show $0$ is a spectral value of $T$?
19:32
write y_n = T x_n. if 0 is not in the spectrum of T then T^{-1} exists and is bounded by some standard theorem. but then 1 = ||x_n|| = ||T^{-1} y_n|| <= ||T^{-1}|| ||y_n|| is bounded above by a sequence that converges to zero.
Lol I was literally starting to type a nearly similar argument.
@leslietownes Thanks for the confirmation.
given the level of the question i might spend a moment or two commenting on why T^{-1} is bounded. maybe this is baked into your definition of 'spectrum.'
if not it probably falls out of any of the holy trinity of functional analysis theorems.
i saved time in my response by not using chatjax. this is how i beat other people to the punch.
@user193319 i saw your post on the fourier transform of something in L^2 \ L^1 the other day. did anyone answer?
$$f(a,b) = b - a + \sum_{1 \ \neq \ d \ \mid \ p_n\#} (-1)^{\omega(d)}\sum_{2 \ \nmid \ c \ \mid \ d}\left( \left\lfloor\dfrac{b - x_{c,d}}{d}\right\rfloor + \left\lfloor\dfrac{x_{c,d} - a}{d}\right\rfloor \right)$$
19:47
$$F(k)=\sum_{n=0}^k\pi(n)\pi(k-n)$$
Yours looks like a convolution product
@geocalc33 do you know what the formula I wrote counts?
The goal of the twin prime conjecture would be to find a contradiction if you assume that $f(a,b) = 0$
@AbstractSpacecraft yes you're exactly right - it's a convolution
@AbstractSpacecraft you're formula counts the number of discrete objects in a given space
Yes, the space of an integer interval
The number of twin primes, exactly counted
Where $a \gt p_n, b \lt p_{n+1}^2$
20:37
@monoidaltransform This is a very odd statement. You really want to be talking about continuity, don't you?
21:15
@leslietownes Yes, I was able to figure it out. Thanks for asking. It turns out that that that homework was based on two sets of lectures, instead of the usual one lecture per homework. But I still did fine on the homework.
user it's a nontrivial thing. sometimes not mentioned (engineering/physics books) or pushed into an appendix. bonus points for noticing. :)
@TedShifrin why is it odd?
many classes include at least some general result about integral operators with square-integrable kernels providing bounded operators from L^2 to L^2. because it is easy. then the fourier transform has a kernel that is obviously not square integrable.
you can get L^2-boundedness but maybe not isometry-ness from the hausdorff young inequality.
@leslietownes I did it - somewhat - counted the twin primes in an interval and there is a formula for it
that's no hausdorff young inequality, but i guess it's something.
21:29
Yeah, we need bounds on it, for example a positive lower bound would prove twin primes as $b = p_{n+1}^2 - 1$ grows
What's neat about it is that if it is growing with $n$ then likely it is always growing so that you can set it equal to zero and try to find a contradiction
Instead of just growing sometimes
has to do with the size of interval $(p_n, p_{n+1}^2)$
Intuitively there are plenty of twin primes that show up when you square the next prime
The verfication codes I wrote show a growing quantity
$$
f(a,b) = b - a + \sum_{1 \ \neq \ d \ \mid \ p_n\#} (-1)^{\omega(d)}\sum_{2 \ \nmid \ c \ \mid \ d}\left( \left\lfloor\dfrac{b - x_{c,d}}{d}\right\rfloor + \left\lfloor\dfrac{x_{c,d} - a}{d}\right\rfloor \right)
$$
@TedShifrin
Isn't that a beauty - look at the symmetry!
It turns out that this approach does not automatically also work for higher gap sizes - you'd have to do another derivation for higher than gap 2
Ramanujan must have put the formula on my tongue whilst I slept
@monoidaltransform I'm not sure where you're getting this question, but the usual issue is whether the map is continuous. Here's a typical theorem: If $\bar M\subset N$ is an immersed submanifold. If $f\colon X\to N$ is smooth with $f(X)\subset\bar M$ and $f$ is continuous as a map into $\bar M$, then $f$ is smooth as a map to $\bar M$.
@AbstractSpacecraft Don't just ping me randomly. I am not interested in the twin prime conjecture.
@monoidal I used $\bar M$ so that you could then put $X=M$ for your use, I think.
@TedShifrin in my case, since $f(M)$ is an embedded submanifold, $f:M\rightarrow f(M)$ is always continuous, right?
what i've written is what the professor mentioned in lectures
I think what I wrote is what your professor intended to talk about.
I don't see what his point was.
he was talking about a map $c:I\rightarrow \mathbb{S}^1$ and he said that it is smooth provided $c:I\rightarrow \mathbb{R}^2$ is smooth
he said that is because $\mathbb{S}^1$ is an embedded submanifold of $\mathbb{R}^2$
and $c(I)=\mathbb{S}^1$
where $I$ is an open interval
21:45
I see. Yeah, that's clear. Well, you only need $c(I)\subset S^1$, of course.
Yeah, that makes sense
The remark I made is the interesting situation. There are various ways to see what he claims; the most geometric is to use a tubular neighborhood of the embedded submanifold. But it's just using a usual chart that flattens out the submanifold.
Hi :) The following is a request of mine for clarification over someone else's answer. Please let me know what you think.
in Group Theory, 1 min ago, by Shaun
Could someone check this answer for me, please? Let me know here whether it holds. I'm having doubts. (NB: It's not my answer.)
I don't know much about tubular neighborhoods. ANy good references for it?
But for the embedded case, won't an adapted chart work?
21:47
It's in Guillemin & Pollack, Hirsch, Spivak. All the standard books.
Yes, the adapted chart gives you the (local) tubular neighborhood. It's making it global that's interesting.
While you're at it, though, think about the immersed statement I gave you.
ted: are you interested in the triple prime conjecture? it asserts that there are finitely many primes p for which p, p+2, and p+4 are all prime.
ducks
right for the immersed situation, I feel it's harder. Because for the embedded case, I can invoke the fact that characteristic property of the subpace topology
I'm only in for it if it's the N-prime conjecture as $N\to\infty$.
something something Dirichlet's theorem on arithmetic progressions
i'm a baysian area frequentist.
21:50
No ducks today, @leslie?
Dirichlet's theorem having the advantage of, y'know, being provable and not just "yeah, i dunno, it probably can't be false"
it's a late naptime now. we might visit the smaller duck pond later.
Remember it gets dark shortly after 4 now.
grumbles about stupid time changes
semi: don't steal the idea before i publish it, but i was thinking of looking mod 3.
my daughter spent about an hour ignoring her lunch. she kept getting up and finding other stuff to do.
misses the 4 hours of wintertime light growing up...
21:54
she went and got crackers out of a cabinet. these were put away, which resulted in the retort: "you can't just tell me that you put away my crackers."
then she told my wife to stop telling her to have lunch. "when a kid tells you to stop, STOP" she said. i wonder if she may have heard this at day care.
She is going to be reporting you to the woke police any day now.
She definitely has boundary issues.
Some here might say NOT continuous up to the boundary.
I get to do another MIT interview. So disappearing shortly.
All one dimensional representations are irreducible, right?
that is very public spirited of you. i guess i shouldn't be surprised.
21:57
Does a one-dimensional vector space have any nontrivial subspaces?
nope, just $\{0\}$ and $V$
What is the MIT interview about?
00:00 - 22:0022:00 - 00:00

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