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12:09 AM
@geocalc33 the solution from integral-calculator.com
 
 
3 hours later…
3:35 AM
@robjohn @CalvinKhor Soothing and cooling breeze are flowing here with the sound of rain, weather is very positive here.
 
sounds nice
im just gonna not turn off my air conditioner lol
 
Lol
 
 
3 hours later…
6:18 AM
@CalvinKhor you can have your air conditioner on when being indoors. How do you keep cool when going outdoors?
 
sweat i suppose
or dont leave, not like i have many places to go atm
 
@CalvinKhor But don't you need to go out to get food?
 
yup, then i get back, store the food, take a shower
recently its been sub 30 and not so sunny so i can deal more
ºC
 
it's over 30 degrees Celsius outdoors in whatever daytime
 
only in the summers tho
 
6:26 AM
yes, but the summer started around April.
 
well got a better solution? im all ears lol
 
well, I don't know. I greatly feel I need to lower my body temperature after a hot meal.
 
yup i now wait a little after cooking too
 
so I sometimes have a bowl of flavored ice after a hot meal.
 
before eating i mean
 
6:30 AM
I always eat in a restaurant.
 
they never closed for you?
 
but not all restaurants have air conditioner on.
 
haha pick the ones that do then
 
most restaurants close during nonmeal times.
some restaurants don't turn on air conditioners during nonmeal times.
 
I meant due to the "unprecedented times we find ourselves in 😷"
 
6:33 AM
but I am inclined to go to eat in nonmeal times.
 
here they became delivery only for a loooong time only recently starting to open up
idk man guess u could buy/bring a cold drink
 
most restaurants don't provide delivery unless sufficient meals are ordered.
they don't deliver a single meal.
 
i have a way to reheat extras, so i order extras. in any case I had no choice lol, the restaurant seating areas were not open
 
there are Uber Eat and FoodPanda, but I have never tried them and don't know how much they cost.
there is no heating facility here.
 
are you in a hotel, or just buy a microwave or something a cheapo one will do
actually i steam the food in a rice cooker which heats more evenly than a microwave but is slower amd introduces moisture but a microwave is clearly the easy option
 
6:43 AM
in rented dorm
microwave isn't cheap.
actually convenience stores all have microwave.
but if I need to go out to a convenience store, I would just go to a restaurant.
because I don't like microwaved food.
 
40-60 bucks for a microwave on walmart.com
fair
 
convenience stores are opened 24 hours, but their meals are all microwaved meals.
 
anyway if you have the luxury of going to restaurants you can just go
 
microwaved meals in convenience stores aren't cheaper than meals in restaurants.
and may even be more expensive.
so I don't really see those microwaved meals worthy.
 
i wasn't planning on saving you any money, i was only suggesting what to do if restaurants aren't open / if you don't want to go to restaurants
 
6:50 AM
most people take recourse to microwaved meals in convenience stores when restaurants are not opened or restaurants are too distant.
because convenience stores are everywhere.
besides microwaved meals, we may also take recourse to instant noodles when we don't want to take the hassle to go to a restaurant.
 
so you can have a kettle but not a microwave? you do what works for you man
 
hot water is provided in drinking water machine anytime.
 
hi
 
I don't usually eat microwaved meals. When I used to be in workplaces and dorm where microwave was offered, I didn't use it often.
@Arjun do you come here to discuss some math issue?
 
@CaptainBohemian ,usually but not this time
so not to disturb you, i will join some other room
 
7:00 AM
@Arjun nobody will be disturbed by you, I think.
 
lmao
Im waiting for math
@Arjun hi how are you
 
for me, I do have some math issues, but I feel I need to have a meal before discussing them.
but after going out to have a meal, I may feel too hot to discuss them immediately.
 
move to the north pole
 
I am on a hill, where there is no restaurant or food store.
 
If $\pi: \mathbb{R}^n\rightarrow \mathbb{R}^k$ is the projection map, and $A\subseteq \mathbb{R}^n$ is a k-slice, is it true that $\pi|_A: A\rightarrow \mathbb{R}^k$ is a diffeomorphism?
note, $k\leq n$
 
@CalvinKhor I’m getting a discrepancy in a differential equation’s exact solution.
If you’re not busy at the moment can we do it?
 
what sort of discrepancy?
lets give it a go
 
That’s the real Calvin
We have $$\frac{du}{dy}= \frac{G~y}{\mu} +c$$
 
lol
 
7:30 AM
$G, \mu, c $ Are constants and we are given that $u(a) = u(-a)=0$
So, we can solve that equation using indefinite integrals and then using Algebra to solve for constants or we can use the definite integrals. But both of these methods are giving the answer which differ by a minus sign.
 
i think that's correct
ok, well one of them should not solve the ODE right
 
Indefinite integral approach $$ \int \frac{du}{dy} dy = \int \frac{G~y}{\mu} dy + \int c dy $$ $$u(y)= \frac{G~y^2}{2\mu} + cy +c’ $$ $$u(a)= u(-a) $$ $$ \frac{G~a^2}{2\mu} + ca +c’= \frac{G~a^2}{2\mu} -ca +c’ \\ c=0$$
 
the \frac{G~a^} at the end isn't letting it compile
 
@CalvinKhor You’re awesome 😎
How did you find it in just few seconds ?
 
by staring too long at latex code
 
7:36 AM
Hahahahaha LOL
Okay we got $c=0$, but we have $$ u(a)=0 \\ \frac{G~a^2}{2\mu} +c’=0 \\ c’= -\frac{G~a^2}{2\mu} \\ \text{Therefore} \\u(y) = \frac{G~y^2}{2\mu} - \frac{G~a^2}{2\mu} \\ u(y)= \frac{G}{2\mu} (y^2-a^2)$$
 
ok
and?
 
Now, let’s solve $$\frac{du}{dy}= \frac{G ~y}{\mu} + c$$ using definite integrations, $$\int_{a}^{y} \frac{du}{dy}dy = \int_{a}^{y} \frac{G~y}{\mu} dy + \int_{a}^{y} c dy $$ $$u(y)-u(a) = \frac{G}{2\mu} (y^2 - a^2) + cy -ca$$
Oh we are getting the same answers I think from both the methods
 
yup
 
Sorry I disturbed you
 
lol np its good
 
7:45 AM
:)
 
Another thing you could do, you're given $u'$ is linear, this means that $u(y)$ is a quadratic, you know that it vanishes at $\pm a$, so $u(y) = C(y-a)(y+a) = Cy^2 - Ca^2$ for some constant $C$, differentiating you get $u' = 2Cy$. Compare this with $\frac{Gy}\mu + c $ you get $c=0$ and $2C =\frac{G}{\mu}$.
@Knight
 
8:03 AM
Yes, that’s also a nice method
 
consider a diagonal matrix $A$ with entries $e^{s_1},e^{s_2},...,e^{s_n}$ s.t. $\sum_i s_i = 0 $
actually just consider the sum from i=1 to i=3
what can we say about the solution space for $T(x)=A \vec{x}$
 
8:20 AM
@geocalc33 unfamiliar with the notion of a solution space
 
what I mean by that is: what surface do points flow across while being acted on by $A$
for the case i=1 to i=2 we get that points flow along hyperbolas
 
i thought you need one + and one - eigenvalue for that
and e^whatever >0
 
8:33 AM
@CalvinKhor it's what's called a "squeeze mapping."
the matrix $A$ maps points on $uv=$constant to itself
at least for i=1 to i=2
 
whenever you're talking about the flow, and you do a lot, I think you should make that more explicit, e.g. I don't think anyone would guess that for the "solution space" for $Ax$, that sounds like the null space to me instead
 
oh okay my bad
 
Also I'm not convinced, to shrink, you need a negative eigenvalue
right?
like for example solutions to $x' = \begin{bmatrix} -1 & 0 \\ 0 & 1 \end{bmatrix} x$ trace out hyperbolas
oh, it would seem you're talking about things like $x(t) = e^{t \begin{bmatrix} -1 & 0 \\ 0 & 1 \end{bmatrix} }x_0$? but there's the $t$ there that you didn't include. Not sure why I tried to decipher what you wrote
 
8:53 AM
it's not like I wrote it cryptographically
 
thats basically the same thing as not using clearer notation
the flow map for the $A$ should be $e^{tA}$
 
@LeakyNun Do you know Abdus Salam? I mean does your college has done something for his memorial?
 
@CalvinKhor oh okay I had no idea that it should be written like that
now I know :)
 
fair :) are you following some text on ODEs? I feel like it would be good if you were
 
probably should, but I'm about to try to work through "an intro to semi-riemannian geometry" by O'Neill
might take me like 3 years
 
9:03 AM
lol
well good luck
 
thank you
 
 
2 hours later…
11:14 AM
So the fundamental group of S1 is the integers intuitvle every loop corresponds to a unique lift that shows how many time u went around the circle
but how would i go to show that 2 loops on a circle are not homotopic
starting on the same point
 
Lift the loop to R, look at the endpoint of the lift.
They are same iff the loops are homotopic
 
yes
so theres a result
that loops are homotopic iff they have the same to a covering space
lift*
 
Not same lift.
 
You quoted the result incorrectly.
 
11:21 AM
the lifts are the same iff the loops are homotopic
 
Lifts will have the same endpoints and they are path homotopic iff the loops are homotopic
 
ohhh ok
that makes sense now
neat result
and it suffices to find one covering space
i mean no matter your covering space
i guess should be path connected
 
No, you need to go to the universal cover.
I mean, otherwise your loop need not lift to a path.
 
11:24 AM
yes
not just patch connected
simply connected cover
ok cool result
so to find different loops look at a universal cover
but is there a way i can prove 2 loops on a circle
are not homotopic
starting at the same point
one going once and the other twice without arguing with the covering space?
proving there cannot be a family of contiuous maps starting with the first loop ending at the second
 
Yes, treat the circle as a subspace of $\Bbb C$, and contour integrate the complex function $1/z$ on the loop.
 
You can also observe that winding number is a homotopy invariant
 
in my mind i can just start streching the first loop from one side till it makes another round
and it seems like a continuous deformation
 
but the endpoints have to stay fixed
 
yes
exactly
was about to say that
perfect
thats the catch
 
11:31 AM
@Thorgott If you’re not busy I want to ask something related to the integrability of the step function.
 
@Thorgott However, it does not distinguish between this loop, and the trivial loop:
Even though this curve is not homotopic in $\Bbb C \setminus \{1, -1\}$ to the trivial loop.
 
barlaka can you explain your example?
 
I'll let you think about it instead
 
this loop cannot be contracted
since these 2 points are off
without making a discontinuity
 
That doesn't seem like an argument to me
 
11:34 AM
true
but you want to argue against the winding number right?
neat
equal winding number doesnt mean homotopic
 
yeah, but it suffices for the circle (though that also comes down to the same as just integrating 1/z like you suggest)
 
@Thorgott Why, exactly?
What is special about the circle
 
its a normal curve
no self intersect
 
That sounds like nonsense
Which space is my above loop living in, exactly?
 
C minus 2 points
 
11:41 AM
Does C minus 2 points deformation retract to a familiar space
 
yes the self intersection comment was nonsense my bad
 
C minus a point deformation retracts to the circle
 
yes
lemm think it
gluing the 2 points
w8
C minus on point is the circle
one*
minus 2 points seems like an open interval
actually more like 2 circles if i just size up the holes
 
@Balarka because loops on the circle are classified by winding number
 
That doesn't seem to specify what is special about the circle
 
11:54 AM
well, it's saying the fundamental group is Z
 
What is the fundamental group of C \ {1, -1}
 
free group on two generators
or free product of Z with itself, same thing
 
If winding number did work, what would the expected fundamental group be?
 
hmm, Z\times Z
 
Yup
 
11:59 AM
ohhh
 
So the special thing about the circle is $\pi_1$ is abelian
 
counting the winding number on the first point and the second
 
Right
 
ah, makes sense
that's an interesting observation
 
There's a bunch of cool things one can read from this picture but maybe let's save some for another day
 
12:03 PM
let me bring up a related question, then
why is the fundamental group of the punctured torus free on two generators?
 
trying to figure 2 loops on C minus 2 points that fg not gf
 
I've been trying to come up with a geometric picture of how it works, but I'm not managing
 
if u puncture the torus and u size up the hole dont u get S1 xS1?
 
@Manolis What matters for a loop in the plane minus two points is only how it turns around the two removed points. If you have a loop that only turns around one of these, the situation will be the same as with a circle, so you won't find two non-commuting elements. So try looking at simple loops that turn around both of the removed points.
no, S^1xS^1 is the torus
 
@Thorgott Have you tried puncturing the fundamental square of the torus, then englarging the puncture, and gluing?
 
12:09 PM
oh, I always forget to think about the fundamental square
let me try
 
sorry my notation was bad to the product i meant S^1 V S^1
2 circles joint to a point
 
@ManolisLyviakis Let a be the loop which circles about the red point and b be the loop which circles about the green point here. I claim aba^-1b^-1 is homotopic to that loop.
Also yes, punctured torus indeed does deformation retract to S^1 V S^1
 
size up the hole to a ring around the torus that leaves a point and then size up the ring
 
12:23 PM
So the statement is : The fundamental group of the 2 point punctured C is the free group with 2 generators and if the loops around the 2 points where commutative on the operation of concatenation then i would only count the winding number on the first point and the second to get the equivalnce classes and the fundamnetal group would be ZxZ
 
12:43 PM
@BalarkaSen I have always liked the handle-theoretic picture of classification of surfaces, which comes to mind because your two manifolds equivalent to S^1 v S^1
If you assume a single 0-cell (and as many 2-cells as necessary to close up the surface), the picture is: a circle, equipped with n pairs of points, where each point is labeled with a normal orientation
Your points should be thought of as teleporters and the arrows tell you which way you'll come out
can also draw them as + and - so long as you understand clearly the rules for how to go from one teleporter to the other
Then the handleslide move is just moving a point across a teleporter
And birth/death is just adding/deleting pairs of adjacent cancelling teleporters (where the teleportation is just "continue along the circle as expected", more or less)
 
@MikeMiller Yeah I learnt this from Scott Carter's book
You have a big disk (0-cell) with a bunch of strips (1-handles) attached and you have to classify these guys basically
Handleslide is exactly what it sounds like, moving a strip over the other
 
where the commutative part comes in play?
 
1:02 PM
Quick question: Can I ask a question, quote the solution from the book, and then answer my solution?
 
1:13 PM
@Knight whats this about step functions? :)
@user675453 you can, but im not sure why you would want to
 
1:29 PM
Because I liked the solution and at first I was amazed to see that "neat" solution
 
sure, do it
 
1
Q: Simplifying product of binomial coefficients

Gunnar Þór MagnússonLet $j,k,l,n$ be positive integers such that $j,k,l \leq n$, $j-l \leq k$ and $l \leq k$. Is there any way to simplify the product $$ \binom{n-j-k-l}{k-j-l}\binom{n-j-k+l}{l}^2, $$ perhaps as a product of just two binomial coefficients (or just as one such coefficient)? I've been staring at this ...

 
When someone talks about compact subsets, what do you think of? What's the intuition behind a compact subset and a non-compact subset? What's the importance? Why do we care if a subset is compact or not?
 
I came across that question, it's from 2013. Still not answered. Why is it so? And can be done about it?
@nbro, I don't but Wikipedia could help? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_space
In the 19th century, several disparate mathematical properties were understood that would later be seen as consequences of compactness. On the one hand, Bernard Bolzano (1817) had been aware that any bounded sequence of points (in the line or plane, for instance) has a subsequence that must eventually get arbitrarily close to some other point, called a limit point.
 
you could answer it :D or place a bounty
 
1:39 PM
I found the definition of a compact subset
I want your intuition
I don't want definitions
 
No no, see th historical development section
@Calvin Khor, Way too advanced for me, that's why I don't know if it needs some improvement or people didn't see it
 
its a bunch of binomials, idk if its complicated or just not possible. but 200 people in 7 years is a little tiny, a bounty might help.
 
@nbro its like your space is a finite puzzle of open pieces
"open" depends on the topology you give to the space
 
1:59 PM
$S_4$ is the only group of order $p^3q$, $p,q$ prime, with no normal Sylow-subgroup
 
2:12 PM
@Thorgott really?
 
yup
for groups of order $\neq24$, this is just a standard argument from Sylow theorems
I'm still trying to understand why $S_4$ is the only counter-example of order $24$
 
2:47 PM
@BalarkaSen I am regretting reading that Balarka.
Why you gotta be so real.
Anyway, do compact fibers imply properness?
No.
Sad.
Consider the the projection $\Bbb R' \times [0, 1] \to \Bbb R$, where $\Bbb R'$ is discrete. Each fiber is homeomorphic to $[0, 1]$ hence compact. But, the inverse image of $[0, 1]$ is $[0, 1]' \times [0,1]$, which is not compact
But this seems like a very unnatural example.
Can I have an example with manifolds?
 
3:06 PM
@Thorgott So there must be $4$ Sylow 3-subgroups on which the group acts transitively. I assume that this will give the injection to $S_4$, but I don't have an argument for why it is injective yet
 
3:18 PM
@CalvinKhor Hi :-)
 
halo
 
Hola
Can we discuss that real analysis problem? Integrability of step function?
 
sure!
 
Should I send some images of my book or write down? (the printing have some missing letters in between but image will be a quick thing, what you demand sir?)
 
image should work
 
3:30 PM
(You can ask if something missing isn't obvious)
I really don't understand what's going on there.
 
you cool with the game plan that you need to prove (6.21) right
 
No
Thats the main problem
For integrability we have to have
$$
\lim_{n\to \infty} \left[ U(f,P_n) - L(f,P_n)\right] = 0
$$
That is for some partition the difference between upper Darboux and Lower Darboux sum must be as small as we want, right?
 
in your definition of integrability, do you require gap P_n -> 0?
yeah
 
No we don't require it for this case
 
@feynhat Just map (0, 1) to C by wrapping it about a circle, t -> e^(2*piit)
 
3:40 PM
well you need something, otherwise if P_n is the same for all n then you can virtually never get it equal to 0
so I guess your integrability definition is- for all partitions with gap P_n -> 0 , (the limit condition you have)
 
yes I agree with that. But in this case if we take partition $P=\{z_0, z_1, \cdots z_k\}$ such in each integral $[z_{I-1}, z_i]$ the value of the function is constant
 
thats P*, a fixed partition that comes from the funcction. Its not the same partition as the partitions P_n, which are the ones you're testing integrability with
 
Can't we use it?
 
@nbro Non-compact subsets of R^n "escape to infinity". Compact subsets don't.
 
Because for that partition we have $M_i =m_i$ for each interval and hence upper and lower sum will be equal
 
3:44 PM
you can, but you dont get to prove integrability like this. Integrability reads for all partitions such that (something)
so in this proof, it says to create one partition P* from the function, and now let P be an arbitrary partition (possibly unrelated to P*)
 
Why we cannot use $P^{\ast}$? can you please stress on it?
Because as I have understood integrability, it says "there exist a partition such that upper and lower sum are almost equal"
 
its as if you said, a function is continuous beause you checked $\epsilon=2$. But you need to check all $\epsilon>0$
 
lol
 
Its, for each epsilon, there exists a partition such that upper and lower sum are epsilon close
 
But I proved it is less than any positive epsilon, because it is zero.
 
3:50 PM
yes well I think thats right, but probably not the definition of integrability that your text is using
its probably starting from the other one (if gap P_n -> 0 then upper minus lower converge to 0), and might prove this one later
 
Should I give you the image where he defines integrability?
 
@LeakyNun got it, thanks
 
OK your text has confused me
I see no reason not to take P_n = P*
 
3:58 PM
Yes
Thats what pestered me
 
what text is this lol
the author must have switched and not updated the later part...
 
HAhhahahahah
You are funnier than Jerome K. Jerome (whose name itself is a joke)
 
lol
 
@CalvinKhor I am not seeing how taking a constant sequence of partitions gives a counter example to that statement
 
@Tobias the source I'm reading argues by looking at the core of a normalizer of such a $3$-sylow and shows it is trivial, then we get the injection by having the group act on the cosets of that normalizer
 
4:01 PM
@TobiasKildetoft which?
 
@CalvinKhor The one in the image about the existence of a sequence of partitions
 
Even Spivak says "A function is integrable if we can find a partition $P$ such that" $$U(f,P) -L(f,P) \lt \epsilon$$
 
it works for the step function and u gotta pick one of the good partitions
 
@Thorgott That seems to be essentially the same argument I was moving towards
 
@Knight yup yup
 
4:03 PM
@CalvinKhor And the step function is integrable
 
@BalarkaSen I see. So, you would take a inverse image of a compact set containing $1$, and that would be something like $(0, a] \cup [b, 1)$ (not compact).
 
yes, but i was trying to get the definition of integrability, which works for other functions too
given the proof given i thought it was a different definition
 
Well, given the statement of that result, it can be taken as the definition
 
given the proof given....never before have I uttered this sequence of 4 words
 
@feynhat Yeah I mean just think sequentially. A map of metric spaces is proper if every sequence escaping to infinity is mapped to some sequence escaping to infinity
 
4:06 PM
I don't follow, I don't get to choose the definition, because I'm trying to help Knight follow their text
anyways it seems to be sorted and i need to go
 
But that map (0, 1) -> C clearly maps sequences escaping to 1 for example to something which stays inside a compact set
 
@CalvinKhor Is it sorted?
Whats the conclusion?
 
your text wasted a lot of ink
 
Yeah, they may be quite rich
 
the proof they gave is for a different definition of integrability thats a little harder to work with at least at the start
turns out to be the same
 
4:10 PM
@BalarkaSen The general statement for @feynhat is that proper maps extend to the one point compactifications
 
if theres more to it leave a message ill get back to it when i wake up, cya
 
Oh no. I didn't see the '/' in 2pi/t (in my defense, its barely visible in non-jax text).
 
its not / its i
2pi i t
 
@CalvinKhor Good Knight
 
i
 
4:14 PM
youre just wrapping around the circle
 
@BalarkaSen hikaru lost :c
the chat was spamming "it's our fault"
 
yeah :(
 
math.stackexchange.com/questions/3719653/… This is a great question! I don't think it should be closed
 
I mean he blundered two draws yesterday against Ding
too much twitch man
he's forgetting chess
 
@rain1 That question is incomprehensible to me
 
4:21 PM
Tobias you were saying something about that text's proof of integrability of step function?
 
@Knight I just noted that the result in the image held for the step function
 
Can you tell me why the book sought for such a long method?
 
No idea
 
was my method correct? proving the integrability using $P^{\ast}$
 
Is there a surjective example?
 
4:36 PM
Sure. (0, 2) -> S^1, t -> e^(2 pi i t)
 
@TobiasKildetoft, It seems straightforward to me
he defines a term 'perfect modular hash' and asks if it exists
 
@rain1 Actually, he does not define that term anywhere
 
Oh yeah lol. I gave literally the same example to Thor when he asked about cardinality of fibers of a local diffeo being constant.
 
right lol
 
OK I have edited it to improve it, Do you like the edit?
 
4:47 PM
I forget a notation. What does $\mathbb{Q}$ represent?
 
@CaptainBohemian The rational numbers
 
the rationals
 
thank you
 
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