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00:14
@LukasHeger just to be clear, the closed bounded subset you take could miss some finite points right?
@LukasHeger Oh, there is a statement in by book: Every d-Cauchy sequence of points of S converges to a point of S <=> every geodesic can be extended to a geodesic on the domain \Bbb R
This is what Hopf-Rinow theorem you mentioned right?
@BalarkaSen: I have added more error estimates. Hopefully, they will allow you easier sleep tonight.
@TedShifrin Okay, I got distracted by Balarka Sen's inquiries. I am lost; where should I be looking?
@love_sodam yes
@LukasHeger Yes for both?
@TedShifrin: perhaps you were actually responding to Balarka Sen instead of me.
@love_sodam you can actually find a closed bounded subset that contains the whole Cauchy sequence. But if you have one that misses only finitely many points, that works for convergence, too
00:29
and I'm talking to a ghost...
Yes, @robjohn, I just wanted to ping you for your due credit.
00:57
(removed)
EM4
EM4
in Complex Analysis, what does punctured disc mean?
you have a disc and remove it's center
EM4
EM4
this is where I am lost.
I will make the question and link it to here :)
which part do you not understand?
How can I show the parallel transport around the central loop of the Mobius strip is an improper rigid motion of the tangent plane?
Seems reflection
EM4
EM4
01:09
@Thorgott if I have $frac{z+1}{z(z+2)^2}$ $0 < |z| <2$ and find the Laurent Series.
is the region at the origin.
do you mean $\frac{z+1}{z(z+2)^2}$?
what is your question?
@love_sodam consider two obvious vectors.
EM4
EM4
@LukasHeger yes, my fault.
@TedShifrin Vertical and parallel you mean
EM4
EM4
01:12
my question is is center in the origin.
the set of complex numbers satisfying $0 < |z| < 2$ is a punctured open disk centered at the origin of radius 2
@TedShifrin Yes the parallel maps to itself but I can't see the behavior of vertical vector
I guess we don't know the central circle is a geodesic, but I can pick a Möbius strip where it is.
EM4
EM4
oh okay @LukasHeger , can it be represented as $|z| <2$ then?
01:15
Remember that parallel transport preserves angles.
@EM4 I don't understand that question
does the set of all complex numbers $z$ satisfying $|z|<2$ contain $0$?
EM4
EM4
I will do wild guess, I will say yes.
I am so anxious about getting a bad grade :(
@TedShifrin preserving angle shows something?
01:17
I enjoy math but when I am forcing myself it is hard
Yup. If we agree the central circle is a geodesic. The vertical must come back vertical.
don't guess
you should what the modulus of $0$ is
EM4
EM4
modulus of $0$ is 0.
and is $0<2$?
EM4
EM4
yes!
01:21
@TedShifrin Ok. the vertical vector upside down
so $0\in\{z\colon|z|<2\}$, no need to guess
but is $0\in\{z\colon0<|z|<2\}$?
Or maps to itself..?
EM4
EM4
@Thorgott will $0\in\{z\colon0<|z|<2\}$ be false, because 0< 0 is false.
yes
so these are different sets
$\{z\colon0<|z|<2\}$ is precisely $\{z\colon|z|<2\}$ with $0$ removed
the latter is the disc of radius $2$ centered at $0$, the former is the punctured disc of radius $2$ centered at $0$
Think about how you make a Möbius strip. And how the angle stays right angle all the time.
01:25
it is punctured, precisely because the center, which is $0$, has been removed
EM4
EM4
okay, that makes sense, does this mean it has one disc?
I am trying to picture it.
@TedShifrin yes as they stays the right angle, moving on, the vertical vector change the direction upside down isn't it?
Yes, because of the way a Möbius strip is built topologically.
01:43
@TedShifrin How is that a improper rigid motion? isn't that just rotation?
Oh rotation w.r.t tangent vector so improper
It's reflection. You were right.
This book want me to prove Prop 4.12
Hint is to use normal coordinate that all Christoffel symbols vanishes at the origin
but I can't understand that hint
02:19
I could prove it is an equivalence relation.
How do I describe the equivalence class?
How do I find the pARTION
I could find equivalence class of $f$ as [f]=$\{x\in A: x(n)=f(n) \forall n \text{odd} \} $
@sodam: Think about circles (arcs) of arbitrary radius. I guess you can look in normal coordinates.
Woah so many starred messages
02:35
@TedShifrin circle in T_p S right? How to get geodesic curvature from that?
still has uncountable equivalence class. right?
03:36
@robjohn some good news for baseball
03:58
:-)
04:57
@TedShifrin If I know my book author's email then I will tell him to change everything in his book. Too few examples and explanations and especially those wired terminology he made
05:46
@love_sodam Having written four books, let me tell you that what you suggest is not constructive and will not help.
@TedShifrin You wrote four books? that's a lot. I found that many exercise in his book is example in other's textbook.
06:26
@Unknownx maybe consider the map $\phi(f) = (f(1),f(3),f(5),...)$. then $f \sim g$ iff $\phi(f) = \phi(g)$.
06:37
Can anyone help me with limiting point concept in circles
06:48
@MikeMiller great, thanks
 
2 hours later…
08:42
@Snapdragon-X: your question prompted me to write a text along a curve function.
4
 
3 hours later…
12:00
@robjohn The Munchkins..Oooo... Is this on Mathematica or MAtlab, it looks coool!
123
123
Hi All..
@Astyx is "relevant" the word for "congruent" in French?
lol
Hi
Huh in what context ?
No, astyx is in the New Taylor Swift album
No body, no crime
"congruence" can mean "modular" in some sense
But the word has several meaning depending on context
12:11
${\mathbb{A}}\text{styx}\equiv 0 \pmod{styx}$
something like that
@Astyx ... sans $p$-torsion munie d'un endomorphisme $\varphi$ relevant $\operatorname{Frob}_q$ modulo $\pi$
without p torsion equipped with an endomorphism $\varphi$ congruent to Frob mod pi?
oh I thought you meant the other way around
"relevant" means "lifting"
I see
hahaha
thanks
So $\phi \equiv Frob_q \pmod \pi$ or something
Glad to help :)
12:15
well that's what I mean
Oh I see
well $\varphi$ is an endomorphism that reduces to Frob mod pi
lol
Right
or "acts as frob mod pi"
okay nice
We have a piece of literature from Fargues-Fontaine that's just in French
Don't be afraid to ask if you have doubts
Okey cheers :D
Is it true that an M_n(A)-module is always of the form $K^{\oplus n}$ (up to iso) for an A-module K ? Am I understanding this correctly ?
12:21
errrrrrrrrr
I cannot remember anything
I mean if your $A$ is a field then it's true
A is an algebra over a field k
It's the first part of this lemma
I just don't know if I'm understanding it right
yeah same
I think
that's just the definition
rofl
I mean, the fact that you have an equivalence of categories means that the functor sending an M to $M^{\oplus n}$ is essentially surjective
right?
I think so?
yeah an equivalence of categories is fully faithful and essentially surjective, so every dude in M_n(A)-Mod is (naturally isomorphic to) the image of a guy in A-Mod under that functor
Ok thanks!
12:42
"Part (1) proves itself." is a way of writing trivial I had never seen before
ye the proofs are sometimes very elliptic
"The proof of part (1) revealed itself to me in a dream"
Insert bill wurst's "you can make religion out of this"
oh man I gotta spend the christmas holidays learning perfectoid spaces
I'm so tilted
13:10
@EdwardEvans yas
join the light side
I don't want to
the light side is too difficult
Reminds me of the classic
"The first author must state that his coauthor and close friend, Tom Trobaugh, quite intelligent, singularly original, and inordinately generous, killed himself consequent to endogenous depression. Ninety-four days later, in my dream, Tom's simulacrum remarked, "The direct limit characterization of perfect complexes shows that they extend, just as one extends a coherent sheaf." Awakening with a start, I knew this idea has to be wrong, since some perfect complexes have a non-vanishing K0 obstruction to extension. I had worked on the problem for 3 years, and saw this
The Light Side Of The Lun(acy)
@robjohn Thanks for adding the error terms!
What does it mean for an action to be free in the context of groups acting on manifolds? That it is fixed point free?
$gx = x$ for some $x$ implies $g = 1$, yes
13:23
Hullo
@BalarkaSen ah, I see, thanks
that's always what it means for an action to be free, for the record
I proved today that the probability of two numbers being relatively prime is $6/\pi^2$
so nothing to do with whether the group acts on a manifold or just any old set
@Thorgott sure, just that I had manifolds on my mind
13:52
@stackex33 You're presumably trying to show that the quotient M/G is a manifold. Do you see why there should be problems whenever you have a fixed point?
is the fundamental group of a connected manifold finitely generated?
Compact, yes, noncompact, no it's only countable in general
what's a non-compact counter-example?
Infinite genus surface
As a genus 0 example the union of countably many annuli in R^2
14:08
how do union those to get genus 0
he's giving you a disconnected manifold lol
you can also throw a cantor set away from S^2
Is that a manifold?
its an open subset of S^2, a manifold
better be a manifold
why would you do that, but ok
Ah ye right
14:15
@BalarkaSen No I'm no
You guys have no imagination
Take the annuli to be centered at (3n, 0) and to have inradius 1, outradius 2
@Thorgott Take the infintie binary tree in R^3. Fatten it up. Take the boundary. That's what B is saying
you mean project the infinite genus surface to your visual 2D plane
Hyperbolic brain
hows that genus 0
What do you think genus 0 means
14:18
euler char 2
so R^2 is not genus 0?
That would say the disc has genus 1/2?
You gotta start with a definition so that the genus of S_{g,n} is g...
whats S_{g,n}
delete n discs
from?
14:24
S_g lmao
jesus christ
@Snapdragon-X It is Mathematica.
@MikeMiller well, you're close. I was actually looking at the covering X over X/G and that led me to this. In wiki, they mention free action, and I had heard of it as "fixed point free", so I just wanted to confirm that it meant what I thought it meant.
oh, you mean open discs
As for the problems when it's not free, I'm guessing it messes up the Hausdorff condition, an extreme example I can think of is non zero reals acting by multiplication on reals. But in general, I suppose one has certain "pinch points" (I'm thinking of folding the unit disc by conjugation), that may be problematic. I don't know, I'll have to study it
@Thorgott S(g,n) is the surface recursively defined by S(1,0) = T^2, S(0,1) = D^2, S(g,0) = S(g-1, 0) # S(1,0), and S(g,n) = S(g,n-1) # S(0,1)
@stackex33 The Hausdorff condition is actually a different matter. "Freeness" is basically an independent problem. It has more to do with your pinch-points.
Usually one demand that the group action is "proper" in the sense that the map G x M -> M x M, given by (g,m) -> (gm, m), is a proper map. This is what you need to force the quotient to be Hausdorff.
14:28
lmao inductive definition of S(g, n)
I'll probably be forced to define connected sum in a moment
@MikeMiller I see, I couldn't think of an example where having pinch points was actually problematic
Haven't you?
What's the quotient of C by the conjugation action you mentioned?
ok, so if I say the genus is $\frac{1}{2}(2-\chi)$, how is that not consistent with what you want
@MikeMiller Oh, it is problematic?, it looked like a semicircle, so I didn't bother about it
14:30
@Thorgott Genus of S(g, n) is g.
if you didnt know this you know it now
@stackex33 A semicircle isn't a manifold, but I don't agree that the quotient of C by (z ~ z-bar) is a semicircle
genus is the number of handles. R^2 doesn't have 1/2 many handles, it has no handles
so it has genus 0
a handle is the thing you grab your coffee mug with. i hope you dont drink coffee in a wineglass
i sometimes drinkk scotch in a coffee mug
degenerate
@MikeMiller what about a manifold with boundary? yeah, well I'm not completely familiar with this
14:32
yes, I'm saying that's consistent with my definition, at least I think so
@Thorgott I feel like you're not listening. Your definition says that the genus of the disc is 1/2.
what is consistent with your definition man? your definition is inconsistent with reality
@stackex33 It's a manifold with boundary, but your theorem doesn't say "when M/G is a manifold with boundary", it talks about when M/G is a manifold. If you add boundary points in this way you're out of luck
does anything else matter?
There are conditions you can place to force M/G to be a manifold with boundary but they aren't pretty
I think the following is a good puzzle to think about
14:34
Oh yay, discussions about geni.
Consider the action of Z/4 on C by [n] * z = i^n z
If you take the quotient of this action you can prove that what you get is still homeomorphic to C.
But what is the smooth structure? Can there be a smooth structure so that $p: \Bbb C \to \Bbb C/(\Bbb Z/4)$ is a smooth submersion? (No: prove it. Think about $dp_0$.)
@MikeMiller @MikeMiller I see, thanks. I'll think about the problem (thanks for the problem as well)
For sure
oh wait, it isn't consistent
guess i dont what genus is, then, so whatever
14:50
you come up with a definition that is consistent
yours is just homological information, so you want something geometric
why are you like this thorgott
mine is "the least g so that S embeds in Sigma_g"
Anticlimactic, I was expecting some algebra Vs geometry brain duel, but okay.
idk man, I never learned genus, how am I supposed to know
To me, it literally is just an index to list all orientable closed surfaces
you need to read some popular math
try scott carter's "how surfaces intersect in space"
15:10
@MikeMiller one homeomorphism is given by passing z\mapsto z^4 to the quotient, and there's no submersion because the x and y axes have the same image (so the derivative is not injective), that right?
That's right! In fact $df_p = 0$, because $df_p(v) = df_p(-v)$ for all $v$
Good job!!
@MikeMiller of course!
There was nothing special about Z/4 here, but it is an easier case to visualize.
This is a general issue.

Given a point x there is the "isotropy group" I(x) = {g in G | gx = x}. This is the set of points that fix x.
I(x) acts on T_x M (take the derivative of your action).
It is not obvious, but (under basically any circumstance) it acts nontrivially.
Then you're goingn to run into exactly the same issue above.
Necessarily $dp_0(v) = dp_0(gv)$; if $dp_0$ were an isomorphism then we'd have $gv = v$ in $T_x M$ for all $v$ --- aka, the action is trivial.
So if you want the projection map to be a local diffeomorphism then $I(x)$ had better be trivial for all $x$.
That's what it means to be a free action!
15:20
I see, interesting. Thanks for your help!
The proof of existence of Laurent series is cohomological in nature, right? Is it illuminating to rephrase it in that language?
Nevermind
Let $U, V$ be the upper and lower hemispheres of $\Bbb{CP}^1$. You want to write a holomorphic function on $U \cap V$ as a difference of a holomorphic function on $U$ and on $V$; that's the same as saying the $1$-cocycle is a $1$-coboundary. It's saying $H^1(\Bbb{CP}^1; \mathcal{O}) = 0$.
15:44
Gaussian functions are very easy to rotate. Are there functions which are very hard to rotate?
@Thorgott I was having issues with this earlier this month when I was planning lectures. Things like "knot genus" in terms of the minimal genus of a Seifert surface. What made it clearer for me at the time was Conway's ZIP proof for the classification of compact surfaces (with or without boundary): maths.ed.ac.uk/~v1ranick/papers/francisweeks.pdf
Kind of made the whole idea of genus a bit clearer because then you know that for orientable surfaces, they are classified by two pieces of data, the genus, and the number of boundary circles (holes), and these affect the Euler characteristic (taking it originally as 2 for the sphere) in dependable ways (-2g for the genus, and -n for holes).
In any case, the ZIP proof is a great read on its own and is worth remembering.
I did it with a bunch of high school kids and they seemed to like it.
It is, of course, incomplete. He gets to avoid Schoenflies by never explaining why some important operations (zipping, perforation) are well-defined.
I don't like the triangulation proof, but his proof is not much different than doing a handle-decomposition style proof, so I'd rather just do that instead..
Just my taste.[
yeah handle-sliding is my favorite
its what Scott Carter does in his text
I think my favorite at this point is (assuming you know that every surface can be written by iteratively attaching discs along portions of the boundary, which is the hard part) showing that the collection of standard surfaces is closed under handle-attachment. This reduces to some local computations of handle attachments on discs and annuli.
Basically what Conway does anyway.
yes, yes, that's what I meant
15:59
Got it
you have to standardize how the 1-handles are attached which is where all the sliding, reordering, etc come in
Oh, I don't bother with that
It's funny how varied mathematicians can be.
The point is that if you do a 1-handle attachment to S, it all happens local to two of the boundary components, and you can split off boundary components with S = S' # (something simple like a disc or annulus)
Since you have presumably already given a careful proof that the connected-sum is well-defined, which of course everyone has seen a careful proof of /s, it reduces you to simple computations
16:02
Still not my favorite (my favorite cuts down instead of assembling up). But the cutting down proof requires a more geometric understanding of homology than I can usually present
There's a simple proof that the only simply connected closed smooth surface is $S^2$; it's definitely $D^2 \cup_{S^1 \times I} \cup D^2$ by Morse theory, so it suffices to compute $\pi_0 \text{Diffeo}(S^1)$ which we can do. What about simply connected noncompact smooth surface?
I guess get a proper Morse function
Ok, you can definitely prove an increasing union of $\Bbb R^2$'s is homeomorphic to $\Bbb R^2$
that's all I suppose
The natural proof requires more book-keeping
You use a compact exhaustion and show that at each stage all but one of the boundary components caps off eventually
Not as easy is it? If $f$ is say a non-negative proper Morse function, $f^{-1}[0, n)$ can be obtained from $f^{-1}[0, n-1)$ by handle-attachment, they handles just get capped off
Lol
yes
@Thorgott just mumble something about it corresponding to category xy, link an nlab article and say now it's clear to you
I think there's a subtlety because this is not true in one dimension up, get a proper nonneg Morse function on the Whitehead manifold
16:14
It in general will show that any noncompact surface w/o boundary and H_1(X;F_2) = 0 is an ascending union of discs and hence R^2 after some Schoenflies / annulus thm arguments
@BalarkaSen Such a function exists
maybe they'll stop grilling you
Whitehead just has complicated handle structure
yes but we cannot pass to a subsequence of "levels" of the function where it's a union of R^3's
@user2103480 smoking adds a better flavor.
so some 2D argument is special to 2D
16:15
@robjohn it hurts the lungs though
Sure, but that's just the topology of the caps.
You're invoking classification of commpact surfaces on th eway
right that makes sense, it's either $I \times I$ or $D^2$
Or some small part of it
@BalarkaSen I think "it's definitely" here is not obvious lo
maybe in the Whitehead case you get caps that shoot off to infinity like an Alexander horned sphere
I don't really understand that
There is not non-smooth behavior here or anything
A compact exhaustion is just complicated
16:20
Here's my understanding of the 2D situation. Let $X_n = f^{-1}[0, n]$. We know $X_{n+1}$ is obtained from $X_n$ by attaching handles. $X_n$ is a standard handlebody for any $n$, and eventually all the plugs (there are only finitely many) in it get filled so that it becomes a disk. This is true for each $n$, so this gives my surface is an increasing union of disks
I am not seeing where this is failing in 3D. The handles are $I \times D^2$ or $D^3$
If you attach $I \times D^2$ you get some contribution of the fundamental group, the core circle has to die later
So the "plug" obtained from attaching $I \times D^2$ eventually gets filled (by a $D^2 \times I$)
So why am I not able to make an ascending union of 3-balls following the same strategy?
@anakhro nice, I'll check it out after figuring out the proof that was presented to me
16:35
@MikeMiller It seems to me that once you plug in all the holes you might end up making an Alexander gored ball than an actual 3-ball
"gored ball"? sounds metal
But maybe this is wrong. $X_n$ will look like some genus $g$ handlebody anyway
There are $g$ many circles that should die in some $X_m$, $m \gg n$
No idea why the same idea doesn't work
Lol nevermind it won't work for the simple reason that there are many ways to kill $\pi_1$ by attaching handles in 3D
Ehh but then again there's not too many simply connected $3$-manifolds with boundary
the boundary components are all spheres by classification of surfaces, half-lives-half-dies. So capping them would give a simply connected closed $3$-manifold which is $S^3$ by PC
so the guy has to be a 3-sphere with balls taken out
ok so instead of an increasing union of D^3's you get increasing union of "pants", D^3 \ (D^3_1 U ... U D^3_k) for some k varying
but who knows what that can be
16:51
I'm honestly too stupid for homology, sad state of affairs: I try to show that that reduced homology group of X is isomorphic to the homology of (X,*) for any point *. I go via the appropriate long exact sequence induced by inclusion and projection and for n>=2 i get 0 - > reduced H_n(X) -> H_n(X,*) - > 0 so it's easy, and for 0 I can just calculate.

But for n = 1 I get 0 -> H_1(X) - > H_n(X,*) -> Z - > ..., where I'm stuck. Do I need to do algebra here, or think about this topologically?
can easily be the Alexander gored ball
eg
maybe from this you can see though that if you assume simply connected at infinity you'll get R^3
@MikeMiller
how did you define homology of pairs? quotient complex?
yup
all singular
ok, you can write down the cell complex explicitly and compare it to the unreduced cell complex
@user2103480 You want to see $H_1(X, pt) \to H_0(pt) = \Bbb Z$ is the zero map. Do you know what this snake map/boundary map means geometrically?
17:08
How to say in FOL that multiplication on $\Bbb N$ is associative?
$\forall a,b,c \in \Bbb N \left((a\times b)\times c=a\times(b\times c)\right)$ ?
Actually I need to run, let me tell you a sketch. (1) $H_n(X, A) \to H_{n-1}(A)$ is the map which sends the homology class represented by the relative cycle $\xi \in Z_n(X, A)$ to the homology class represented by $\partial \xi \in Z_{n-1}(A)$. Chase the proof of the snake lemma to see this
(2) A relative cycle in $Z_1(X, pt)$ is actually just a cycle, because $\partial [0, 1] = \{0, 1\}$, and these boundaries have to cancel in a way that the remaining boundary points lie in $pt$ to make such a singular cycle, forcing everything to cancel actually.
Bye
Thanks! I was just about to write down (1) after looking at the lemma again
17:27
1
Q: Why is KL divergence used so often in Machine Learning?

Federico TaschinThe KL Divergence is quite easy to compute in closed form for simple distributions -such as Gaussians- but has some not-very-nice properties. For example, it is not symmetrical (thus it is not a metric) and it does not respect the triangular inequality. What is the reason it is used so often in M...

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