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12:00 AM
actually I am just lazy sometime it is not good habit
I will start discussing here again as well.
There is a lot of geometers here
 
12:12 AM
algebraists and the fool necessity to state things in terms of categories
why would anyone state associativity like
he drew 3 diagrams for something that takes 2 lines
 
what book is that/
?
 
lol, it's saying that k-algebras are monoid objects in k-vec
unnecessarily obtuse, just say the category of k-algebras is the slice category k/Ring
 
that doesn't quite work, because for a k-algebra you need the image of $k \to A$ to be central
 
12:32 AM
algebra brain
 
yeah ok, then it's the full subcategory thereof with central image, meh
anyway, encoding properties such as unicity or associativity diagrammatically is a useful thing in general. it gets rid of element-dependence, so generalizes how we think of these properties to categories that aren't concrete. this is, in a way, the starting point of the theory of algebraic theories or universal algebra from a modern standpoint.
but if this is in a book whose context is solely linear algebra, it's a rather silly definition lol
 
12:54 AM
@skullpatrol Please visit us at chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/112937/…. We miss you.
 
You rang? @amWhy
 
@skullpatrol We miss you in "whatever quid" and in the Cafe and Tavern, which I linked. quid and I even started a round of echo in your honor, where I linked!
 
"Elements? I only know maps from a terminal object"
 
@skullpatrol Are you following the Raiders (now in Vegas)?
 
Yes, I'm still following them...thanks for the invitation @amWhy, but just heading out for some holiday shopping :-)
Good luck to your packers.
 
1:01 AM
@skullpatrol Please stop in when you can! You've got an open invitation!
 
ok, cya pal
 
@skullpatrol Cya!!
 
:-)
 
@user2103480 sadly doesn't work in a lot of cases
more like "Elements? I only know representable presheaves"
 
@Thorgott fair enough
But representable presheaves are simultaneously universal properties
My HoTT prof called this the "Yoneda style"
 
1:18 AM
Hello
 
2:09 AM
 
Yep
2:48 AM
Hello
 
 
2 hours later…
4:21 AM
@LeonhardEuler That is not a catenary.
 
Was a clear parabola supposed to be a catenary?
 
4:35 AM
Is there a standard notation for the groups of $n \times n$ matrices under addition and $n \times n$ skew-symmetric matrices under addition?
The latter could be denoted by $\mathrm{so}(n)$ since it's the Lie algebra of $\mathrm{SO}(n)$ but I'm not sure whether that's the best notation.
 
4:49 AM
No, I'm used to notation which people assume to indicate rings/algebras. You could do the usual $(X,+)$ game.
 
5:10 AM
What is the correct way to spell axiomize/axiomise? (Differ in using "z" and "s").

Along the same lines: axiomisation/axiomization. Axiomatization/Axiomatisation.
 
axiomatize/axiomatise*
and I would spell with a z
 
Thing is, I have found a link to the same thing but spelled with an "s".
 
yeah, it's the American vs. British spellings
 
But it says: "axiomatisation in British English"
then on the other page
"axiomatization in British English"
 
yeah, I saw it too
I would say "s" is British, and "z" is American.
pick one, and don't lose sleep over it
 
5:18 AM
Yeah I wanted to learn English properly for research. So I don't do grammatical mistakes. when I looked at rules it wasn't very axiomatic. Some rules were bent in weird way.
 
@JoeShmo I didn't see what you edited that from, but I imagine it used to say: "pick one, and don't loze sleep over it".
 
heh, see, no, you can't swap the "s" for a "z" here
 
@KarimMansour Actually, there are quite a few axiomisations of English floating around. I'll see if I can link you to one.
 
@user400188 that would be great.
 
5:21 AM
thanks
 
This one is psudo English, but I've seen a project proposal on trying to axiomise the whole thing or most of it.
I'll see if I can find that too.
Never mind I was mistaken. The project is along other lines.
 
cool.
 
5:40 AM
@Karim, have you understood your misunderstanding about mixed partials versus covariant derivatives? A good exercise is that $d\omega(X,Y) = \nabla\omega(X,Y)-\nabla\omega(Y,X)$ when $\nabla$ is torsion-free ($\omega$ a $1$-form).
 
@TedShifrin Yea. Thanks I will do it. Yeah these calculations are essential to understand small details.
 
3
Q: Do Carmo (differential geometry) Exercise 4.4.17

barista Let $\alpha:I\to\Bbb R^3$ be a curve parametrized by arc length $s$, with nonzero curvature and torsion. Consider the parametrized surface $$\textbf{x}(s,v) = \alpha(s)+vb(s),\ s\in I,-\epsilon<v<\epsilon,\epsilon>0$$ where $b$ is the binormal vector of $\alpha$. Prove that if $\epsilon$ is smal...

Is there anyone can help?
 
I just used my intuition but yeah it is good to be pedantic afterwards
I will be pedantic in all details from now on to master differential geometry and algebraic geometry.
good night @TedShifrin don't want to ruin my sleep schedule
 
6:02 AM
@barista What is your specific question?
 
@TedShifrin I don't know how to solve that
 
Solve what?
 
That exercise problem
 
Be specific. What have you done and where are you stuck ?
 
First I calculated using Frenet formula to find $x_s,x_v$
 
6:11 AM
OK. So what about the geodesic question?
 
I don't know how to answer that
 
If you have a curve on a surface, how do you decide if it is a geodesic?
 
Maybe using ODE for geodesic?
Using Christoffel symbols
Or since $\alpha$ already has unit speed, using definition?
 
What definition?
 
Actually not definition. $k_g = 0$
 
6:25 AM
Aha, that's good. And so did you try that here?
 
you mean $k_g = 0$?
 
Yes. How do you calculate ?
 
that's the straight dope...
 
Acutally I didn't. to compute $k_g$ I need to know the orientation
And usually computing $k_g$ is quite complicated isn't it?
 
Nah. Not to show it's 0.
So geometrically what does it mean for a curve to be a geodesic? Say arclength-parametrized curve.
No Christoffel symbols. I want concepts.
Why are lines geodesics in the plane?
 
6:31 AM
Think $\gamma''$ and $n$?
 
Yes because $\gamma''$ is normal to a plane iff it vanishes
since $\gamma''\in \Bbb R^2$
 
123
Hi All..
 
Ah, so what is the answer to my question?
 
Because the accleration vector of a line vanishes
 
The curve (par by arclength) is a geodesic if and only if ....
 
6:38 AM
k_g(t) = 0 for all t?
 
Its acceleration vector is ...
 
its acceleration vector is normal vector to the given surface
 
Now do your question.
 
@TedShifrin hi
When I say "secondary school", do you understand it to be the education one receives between the ages 13-18?
Just wondering if the HK terminologies match with those in the US
 
Think I need to show $\langle kn,x_s\rangle = \langle kn,x_v\rangle =0$
But $\langle kn,x_s\rangle$ is nonzero
 
6:47 AM
Yes, @Leaky.
 
@TedShifrin and is "Form X" understood as the Xth year in the secondary school?
 
No, form is British.
We say freshman, sophomore, junior, senior, typically.
 
what if I say "first year of my secondary school"?
 
We say high school, typically.
 
but would you understand it if I say Form 1?
even if you don't use it
 
6:50 AM
@barista Be careful. You're doing the curve $\alpha$. So what is $v$?
Who is the audience, Leaky?
 
US Professors
 
Maybe, maybe not.
Better to say blah year(s) of high school.
 
well high school isn't exactly the same
we have 6 years of secondary education
 
Why is your high school education even relevant at this point?
 
it's just for my introduction
in the statement
 
6:53 AM
Dubious.
 
@TedShifrin $v$ should be zero where $\alpha$ exists
 
This is for grad school, not college.
Right ... @barista You need the surface normal where you are, not elsewhere
 
it's just one sentence
a little story
 
OK, barista. Not a hard question.
 
With out specific $\epsilon$, $\alpha$ is geodesic on $I$ right?
 
7:01 AM
In Ireland, form is never used. For primary school, class, for secondary school, year. The US has middle school as well.
ROI I mean.
 
Not $I$, barista. Why are you writing that?
 
@TedShifrin $\alpha '' = kn$ where $k$ is curvature and $n$ is normal vector. $x_s = t-v\tau n$ $t$ is tangent vector, $tau$ is torsion. $x_v = b$ $b$ is binormal vector. So on $I\times{0}$, $\alpha$ is geodesic. I realize it's $I\times {0}$ not $I$ while writing.
 
7:18 AM
Hi
When considering $\mathbb{Z}_p \times \mathbb{Z}_p$, where $p$ is a prime, {(0,1),(1,0)} is a generating set
Also {(0,1), (p-1,p-1)} is a generating set
Likewise there are many pairs of elements which can be regarded as generating sets.
When we consider $(\mathbb{Z}_p \times \mathbb{Z}_p) \rtimes \mathbb{Z}_q$, a Cayley graph can be generated by a pair of elements, say $s,t$, where $|s|=q, |t|=p$. I'm thinking of cases where $p,q>3$ and $p,q$ are distinct primes. Since for $\mathbb{Z}_p \times \mathbb{Z}_p$, many pairs of elements of order $p$ can be generating sets, likewise can we havve many possible candidates for $s$ and $t$?
For $\phi:\mathbb{Z}_q \rightarrow Aut(\mathbb{Z}_p \times \mathbb{Z}_p)$, based on different $\phi$ different semidirect products will be generated. Then whenever it is possible to have a Cayley graph with respect to a generating set with $s,t$ as mentioned above, will $s,t$ be different for different demidirect products? Can we think about possible candidates for $s,t$?
 
 
2 hours later…
9:09 AM
Hints on how to find the curve made by these tangents
Or more generally, given a set of tangents, how do I find the equation of the curve
 
If $K/E/F$ be field extensions and $K/F$ is radical extension, then so is $K/E$ and $E/F$?
 
yes
so are*
 
How can I show?
 
what's your definition
 
9:25 AM
E/F is radical extension if there is $F\subset F(\alpha_1)\subset F(\alpha_1,\alpha_2)\subset\cdots\subset F(\alpha_1,...,\alpha_n) = E$ such that $\alpha_1^{n_1}\in F$ and $\alpha_i^{n_i}\in F(\alpha_1,...,\alpha_{i-1})$ for $i\geq 2$
 
9:42 AM
then I guess it's immediately clear that K/E is also radical
and not so for E/F
and then I'm not very sure about E/F either then
 
Hmm.. maybe I would post the question
@LeakyNun By the way, why $K/E$ is radical is direct?
 
just replace F with E in your tower
E <= E(a1) <= E(a1,a2) <= ... <= E(a1,...,an) = K
 
9:59 AM
Why is $a_i^{n_i}$ for some $n_i$ is contained in $E(a_1,...,a_{i-1})$?
 
10:18 AM
because it's contained in F(a1, ..., a[i-1])
 
Oh, right.
 
10:32 AM
@LeakyNun I found the post that shows counterexample
 
what is it?
 
2
Q: Intermediate Radical Extension Paradox

yoyosteinSuppose $K\subseteq L\subseteq M$ is a tower of fields. If $M$ is a radical extension of $K$, is $L$ a radical extension of $K$? My attempt (resulting in a paradox): I don't know much about radical extensions other than the definition. I tried cooking up this counter-example: $K=\mathbb{Q}...

 
it isn't a counter-example, as demonstrated in the answers
 
Ah, should have read the answer
 
11:32 AM
@Snapdragon-X Here is the envelope
 
@robjohn how did you get the parameters
 
Take a look at Envelope
 
Looking
Cool! Does the Envelope also come into play in higher order diff equations, I remember hearing this term before
 
@Snapdragon-X That might be about the envelope of an oscillating solution
 
@robjohn Yesss, exactly. Thanks for answering.
 
 
1 hour later…
12:46 PM
@Snapdragon-X: I improved the image...
 
When people speak about local extrema, how far do these localities reach?
a function may have multiple local minima if they are far enough away from each other I guess
 
1:01 PM
@traducerad $\sin\left(\frac1x\right)$ has infinitely many local mins and maxes, and they are arbitrarily close.
 
ok so to what does "local" refer in that case if it is not their spatial position? (if you se what I mean)
 
They are still local. That means they are not necessarily global mins or maxes
 
*spatial vicinity
@robjohn ok so a plausible better/clearer name for this would have been "intermediate minimum"?
 
you can find a small enough open interval around them in which they are extremal
No, local is the proper term
 
because IMO local refers to spatial vicinity, which apparently actually is not applicable here
as one may have multiple local extrema extremely close to each other
 
1:06 PM
and it is in spatial vicinity, but there is no smallest interval.
the extrema are located by noting that the derivative vanishes.
 
@robjohn my "concern" is not about what an extrema is, but about the meaning of their so-called "locality"
to me it looks like this is ill-named
 
local means in an open region
 
what do you mean by open region?
 
henlo fenlo back I am welcome
 
Before you go telling people that their notation is poor, maybe you should learn more about the notation. Open neighborhood.
Many branches of math use the term "local" with a very similar meaning
There is no "smallest" distance that means local
 
1:15 PM
@robjohn I am not stating their notation is poor, hence I said "to me it looks like..."/ "*IMO..."
everybody has their own specialities, maths is not what I do on a daily basis
I m trying to understand it and make sense of it. I therefor find it quite unpleasant to notice that "mathematicians" arrogantly shut off other people and tell them to go study a bit more
As said, everybody has their field of expertise
Maths is not mine
 
There are many local extrema, but none are global
 
@robjohn I see
 
or all are global, depending on how you look at it
In math, the usual use of "local" means "in a small enough open neighborhood"
 
hi
 
well, I should say in most branches of analysis.
I can't really speak for algebra
 
1:21 PM
 
Just like local authorities could mean national, state, county, city, etc
 
How is the size of the neighbourhood of the local mi of the graph on the right defined?
I started reading the wiki page you linked and as far as I ve read it looks a bit vague to me in that aspect
 
@traducerad a neighborhood is any open set containing the point of interest. so it would be any open interval containing the extremum you are looking at.
an open neighborhood has no defined size. It can be as small or large as needed.
 
so in other words I could create 50 sets of size 1, where that 1 element in that set is the global minimum within its own set?
 
you probably would not want the open neighborhood to include the saddle point or the global minimum
 
1:25 PM
And then have 1 "macro" set where the aforementionned global minima are now local minima
 
@traducerad if you mean $1$ point, then that is not an open interval
 
true
I would not have expected to ever go down that far the rabbit hole when dealing with mathematical finance
especially optimization
funny IMO: some of the mathematical financial people perform portfolio optimization using lagrange multipliers. I was considering to look into gradient descent to optimize portfolio
but when reading up on these algorithms inner working a whole new world opened up for me
apparently gradient descent looks for local extrema, while lagrange multipliers looks for saddle points
meaning both algorithms are not interchangeable at all
 
and?
 
That was probably a very naive hypotheses of me to think you could just replace one with the other
Neural networks use gradient descent to optimize their problems
 
interesting
 
1:33 PM
@traducerad both methods find places where the local change vanishes at a point. both will give saddle points and both will give local extrema. I don't know why they would separate them like that.
 
@geocalc33 are you making fun of me or do you genuinly find this interesting, lol?
@robjohn here is a brief explanation: stackoverflow.com/a/12284903/7659542
 
@traducerad I find it interesting
 
@traducerad Lagrange multipliers do not only give saddle points. However, they can be used for much more complicated situations such as finding minimizing functions, where gradient descent would not be easy or perhaps possible.
 
@robjohn for non convex functions as well?
 
@robjohn maybe, but I was considering to try the other way around. To try to see whether gradient descent instead of lagrange. But yhea it does indeed look like gradient descent is just not the best way to go here
 
1:40 PM
 
@Snapdragon-X I am not talking about finding the minimum of a function, but a minimizing function
 
Like the Euler Lagrange? I dont know, sorry to intervene. I just thought of applying it in a logistic/linear regression model in ML.
 
I ll try to look at other optimization algorithms which can be used in financial portfolio optimization
optimization is something which is totally new to me
The only form of optimization I was aware of was neural networks that were based on gradient descent
 
@Snapdragon-X it can be applied in places where other methods can also be used, but trying to find a function that minimizes an integral, the best method is usually Euler-Lagrange
 
yes, I remember it so. I have done Lagrangian Mechanics from David Morin around a year ago
it extensively uses euler lagrange.
 
1:51 PM
urgh....
so I ve now spent 40 minutes reading a scientific paper on optimal portfolio rebalancing, which was quite understandable
I finished reading the part where they explain how they create their constraint functions
 
@traducerad there is a lot of stuff in optimization. Don't try to absorb it all at once, and don't dismay if it seems hard; it is.
 
to then discover they don t even expain how they solve their optimization, which is what I was looking for. Ie another way to optimize a portfolio: one which is not based on lagrange multipliers, yet is understanable
 
just give it time
@traducerad the joy of research
 
At least I learned something: different constraints you can have and some ways to model them
Let s see if the next paper is more useful
 
Good luck!
 
2:16 PM
@Snapdragon-X Did Desmos compute the envelope, or did you enter it?
 
2:28 PM
@robjohn No, I had to enter the envelope function. r=asec(theta-a). You can see the link. I have supplied it too. desmos.com/calculator/enqcdnvy5c I assume given some assistance, desmos may compute envelope on its own. I will have to see the implementation in detail or perhaps you can try because you understand it much better than I do. Desmos is quite capable
Caution: Do not open the link on a phone. The phone may crash/not open the graph as expected.
If used well, it can visualize time dependent differential equations as well. desmos.com/calculator/mollwh7qjp
 
3:04 PM
cool
 
3:29 PM
guys but the membership in a set must be contained inside $ .... $ in latex?
n \in \mathbb(N) is correct?
 
4:07 PM
@TedShifrin I finished the computation
 
5:00 PM
Is every R-module has a generating set?
 
Sure, take the whole of R
 
no, R is the ring
 
Woops, I can't read. I meant to take the whole of the module
 
It seems professor give wrong definition
What is the difference between 'finitely generated' and 'generated' in module
I think former has fixed element
 
finitely generated means there is a finite generating set
every module has a generating set (for example, itself), but not every module has a finite generating set
 
5:14 PM
so if the generating set is finite then finitely generated
In both cases, element should be written as a finite linear combination
 
yes
 
5:29 PM
Noob question here
do langrange multipliers belong to the group of "quadratic programming" algorithms for optimization problems?
 
quick question (might be stupid), but is the „pullback“ in the sense of the contravariant hom functor in any way related to the limit-pullback?
 
5:42 PM
not really
 
@Thorgott Who are you replying to?
 
to Lukas
 
ok
Either way I just found the answer to my own question hehe
 
in a specific situation (that afaik was the historical motivation for the terminology), there is a relationship between "pullback" in the sense of precomposition and "pullback" in the sense of limit, but it can't really be phrased in terms of the contravariant hom functor well
I believe this is the best you can get: if $f\colon X\rightarrow Y$ is a continuous map between top. spaces and $\pi\colon E\rightarrow X$ is a fiber bundle, these together form a pullback diagram. The pullback exists and is known as the pullback bundle $f^{\ast}E\rightarrow X$.
Then, there is a natural map $\operatorname{Hom}(Y,E)\rightarrow\operatorname{Hom}(X,f^{\ast}E)$ ($\operatorname{Hom}$ is taken in the category of vector bundles, i.e. these are the global sections) that is induced by pulling back (in the sense of precomposition) sections along $f$.
 
 
2 hours later…
7:23 PM
What is finitely generated p-primary R-module?
Oh, can't remove the above message
If $M$ is $R$-module then if $a\in R^{\times}$ then $M=aM$ by $x\mapsto ax$ right?
 
@love_sodam Not sure what you mean by the argument. You have set equality, not just isomorphism
 
@TobiasKildetoft $M\simeq aM$ then.
 
No, I meant that I did not understand the argument. The claim was correct
 
I have some confusion. If $R$ is PID and $pR$ is maximal for a prime $p$. Let the $K = R/pR$, and let $M$ be a finitely generated p-primary R-module. Then $M/pM$ is a $R/pR$-module
But $M\simeq pM$. What is going on?
 
7:38 PM
No, $p$ is not invertible
 
Ah, in the above, to be $aM\simeq M$, we need $a\in R^\times$
 
yes
Also, isomorphism is still completely irrelevant. It is set equality that matters
 
One more.
After that definition, professor said a filteration (he just used this terminology without definition) $M\supset pM\supset p^2M\supset\cdots\supset p^nM = 0$ for some $n$
Why $p^n M = 0$ for some $n$?
Is that because $M$ is finitely generated?
 
Isn't that by definition what it means to be $p$-primary?
 
Well isn't that $n$ can be infinite?
{m\in M: p^{n}m =0 for some n>0}
 
7:44 PM
You wrote up a set, not a definition
 
hi, could someone help me double check if my proof for this is correct? mathb.in/48137 , its short
 
That's a definition of p-primary R-module
finitely generated
 
its an algebra problem, btw
 
@love_sodam No, that was not a definition. As I said, you just wrote up a set
 
Well $M = M{p}$
 
7:47 PM
@love_sodam Assuming that by $M_p$ you mean the set you wrote up, then sure. Then we also need to use that it is finitely generated to see that there is a largest $n$ that works for all elements in the module.
 
Why finitely generated implies that fact?
Oh
 
if an $R$-module is annihalated by an ideal $I$, then isn't $R$ automatically an $R/I$ module? Won't that immediately apply to your problem @love_sodam , 'p primary' or 'finitely generated' aside?
in your case $M/pM$ is the quotient of $M$ by the submodule generated by the ideal $(p)$, which is certainly annihalated by $(p)$, and so is naturally an $R/(p)$ module
 
@porridgemathematics I could not really follow your argument in the link
 
uh oh, its probably not correct then
thanks for reading it though, could I clarify any part you don't follow?
oh and there is a typo, the $a_i \geq 1$ should really be $a_i \geq 0$
fixed it mathb.in/48138
 
Fun fact of the day: If, in a category with finite products and coproducts, there exists a family of isomorphisms $X\times Y+X\times Z\rightarrow X\times(Y+Z)$ that is natural in $X,Y,Z$, then the category is distributive.
 
7:54 PM
@porridgemathematics The step I can't follow is why $M$ being a generating set for $I$ that does not contain anything from $H$ implies that none of the $P_i$ could contain something from $H$
 
ignores Thor
howdy @Tobias
 
@TedShifrin Good evening (well, day where you are)
 
Yup, midday here.
 
Yeah, I think you are probably 9 hours behind here
 
Yes, depending on daylight savings, we're 8 or 9 hours behind western Europe.
 
7:57 PM
hi chat
 
Hi Astyx
 
@TobiasKildetoft ah yes thanks for pointing that out its wrong as is, i think i can add something to fix it though
 
right, Here it is evening and I am chilling with a nice glass of red (the leftovers of the bottle my wife and I shared yesterday as a replacement for the Christmas lunch I was supposed to have been at but that got cancelled)
 
Mirth despite cancellation.
 
Was also a difference experience reading the company new years email at home and tired instead of in a hotel room severely hung over
But as it turns out, the fact that it mentioned a nice raise made up for it :)
 
7:59 PM
LOL
 
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