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7:07 PM
@Leaky I can also refer you to the second half of my clunky answer here but I think I haven't done a very good expository job there
 
@BalarkaSen You should take a look at Lohkamp's arXiv
he's the Mochizuki of the minimal surfaces world
 
I did lmao
 
What do you think about skin adapted Hardy transforms
 
What are these skin structures lol
 
$\langle A\rangle$-pipelines
@BalarkaSen do you know the basic theory for minimizing elliptic integrands
/area minimizing integral currents
 
7:16 PM
nope
 
uhh well the point is you have weak solutions to the variational problem called integral currents
and in dimensions $\le 7$ they're smooth
 
right something something codimension 7 singularities
 
but the Hausdorff dimension of the singular set is in general $n-7$ and this is sharp
 
@ÍgjøgnumMeg nice
 
So what happens is that you have some open dense regular set $\mathcal R\subset\Sigma$ where it's locally a smooth graph
and you can show that if $\mathcal R\ne \Sigma$, then $\sup_\mathcal R|A|=\infty$, where $|A|$ is the norm of the second fundamental form
so $\limsup_{x\to\partial\mathcal R, x\in \mathcal R}|A|(x)=\infty$
the curvature is blowing up at the singular set
 
7:20 PM
rip
 
@MatheinBoulomenos spectral sequence is dank
 
so you want to understand the structure of the singular set $\mathcal S=\Sigma\setminus \mathcal R$
 
I think I asked you if there's a stratification once and you referred to some underground work
 
so Lohkamp looks at the surfaces $\{|A|=c\}$
@BalarkaSen there is a stratification yeah
but I don't think it's that helpful for solving the kinds of geometric problems Lohkamp is really after
 
@RyanUnger OK
 
7:22 PM
so these surfaces have "wrinkles" because they enclose a singular $n-7$-dimensional set
so a skin structure is just a "smoothing" of $|A|$
it satisfies some analytic and geometric axioms
he makes the observation that $1/|A|$ can be thought of as a natural distance to the singular set of $\Sigma$
 
That is interesting.
 
so the part where it gets insane is that he uses this to send $\mathcal S$ "to infinity"
and the resulting space is a Gromov hyperbolic space where $\mathcal S$ is now the Gromov boundary
 
@BalarkaSen what's a good example to see how the serre spectral sequence works? not to deduce any new information, but just to, say, verify that it is true and be able to move from one page to the next
and I guess it would be a good exercise to work out differentials?
 
then he uses the fact that Gromov hyperbolic spaces have good potential theory to construct a good potential theory on $\mathcal R$
 
I need the $A$ part to work out the differential rights
 
7:26 PM
but this is all extremely technical
 
@RyanUnger Christ
 
@RyanUnger just get a voltmeter
 
@LeakyNun In all the examples I know either you don't need to compute differentials too much or you need to use machinery (Leibniz formula) to compute differentials in cohomology.
It's the hardest part
 
I've been meaning to write notes on this stuff to try to understand it but it's a huge undertaking
It's certainly more work than understanding the Poincare conjecture
I don't think people have taken it as seriously as IUTT though
Probably because number theory gets so much attention from cranks
 
Technical stuff is hard
I was struggling to understand stratum-preserving flows on stratified spaces a few days back.
 
7:33 PM
@BalarkaSen it's technical but it also uses techniques that people in minmal surfaces aren't familiar with
 
Silly combinatorics terminology question
If I’ve got three distinct numbers {a,b,c}, then there’s 6 permutations of them
If two of the numbers are identical, then I’d usually say that there’s now only three permutations
I’m trying to think of a simple way to differentiate “generate distinct permutations” and “generate all permutations”
 
Hey folks; I'm really confused right now.
 
But I’m not sure that way of putting it is standard
 
Why is the derivative of position (velocity) not equal to the average velocity?
For instance, let the position of a ball be defined as P(t) = t^2
Thus, P'(t) = V = 2t
However, the average velocity is v=d/t=P(t)/t=t^2/t=t
Sorry for no latex
 
the derivative of position at t is the instantaneous velocity at time t
 
7:43 PM
Does that mean I'm comparing instantaneous and average velocity?
 
derivative is always taken at a point
right
 
Toss a ball into the air and catch it at the same height
The position is identical at the start and end, so the change in position over that time interval is zero
So by definition the average velocity over that interval is zero
 
@BalarkaSen then I can "argue" the same way for K(Z,n) lol
 
OK, so if I take the average velocity at a very small time interval, should I get near the instantaneous velocity?
 
Right
 
7:45 PM
yes
 
@LeakyNun No you can't
How do you classify higher natural transformations?
 
Ok... thanks
 
I thought it was an informal argument...?
 
Computing $H^m(K(\Bbb Z, n); \Bbb Z)$ is the way to classify cohomology operations, i.e., natural transformations $H^n \Rightarrow H^m$
@LeakyNun The argument was the calculation for $n = 2$ gives this result
You're reading it backwards
 
aha, I misunderstood
it's a cool result!
 
7:46 PM
Yup
I think experts know how to classify cohomology operations other way. I think you get a lot of them generated by Steenrod squares
It's way out of my league
Algebraic topology is too hard man
 
coming from you!
 
At some point I used to say I like algebraic topology. I just say I like topology now lol
I clearly don't know shit about algebraic topology
I don't know how it's humanly possible to do math these days. Everything is hard
 
@BalarkaSen gauge theory is too hard
algebraic topology is just good old side fun
 
coming from you!
:p
 
7:53 PM
that's only because I don't think about the hard algebraic topology
that's too hard
 
@BalarkaSen why doesn't homology have a product?
 
it has a coproduct
how do you multiply simplices?
 
if I'm doing homology with cubes $I^n$ then I see a natural product
 
@LeakyNun there are some exercises in spectral sequences in ch1 of Vakil - but iirc they're all quite trivial (but you might like them anyway as trivial exercises to test your spectral sequence knowledge)
 
cubical homology?
 
7:54 PM
@BalarkaSen be careful
 
@loch cool
 
@LeakyNun Do you? What's the map from the product cube?
 
oh right...
 
homology of a group has a product :)
 
@MikeMiller I guess the singular chain complex is a co-algebra. Does the induced map on Kunneth bunk
 
7:55 PM
a different kind of product...?
 
There's those Tor terms
Take field coefficients lol
 
@MikeMiller what does this product give you?
 
@BalarkaSen That's what I meant
@LeakyNun What do you mean?
 
does the product structure help you do Serre
 
I think so, by naturality of spectral sequences. I don't know if it's easy to understand those product structures well, but Mike does I think
 
7:57 PM
oh no
there's a naturality??
 
Oh I see. I wouldn't try to use it that way (how does the group structure on the base interact with fiber structures and whatnot?)
 
Sure, like a long exact sequence does.
 
this is getting out of hand
 
@MikeMiller Maybe if you have a fibration $H \to G \to G/H$ you can do it?
$H$ is normal in $G$
 
What's the goal of that computation
 
7:58 PM
I dunno, just asking
 
$K(\Bbb Z,2) = \Bbb CP^\infty$ has some structures...
does it help in any way
like it has fractional transformations
 
It has an abelian group structure.
 
oh really
 
I wonder what the algebra $H_*(\Bbb{CP}^\infty)$ with this group structure is
 
what is the abelian group structure?
 
8:00 PM
@BalarkaSen Equivariant homology spectral sequence I guess if you're trying to compute the homology of the base. This generalizes to Eilenberg-Moore
@BalarkaSen This is not so hard using the Hopf algebra structures and duality
 
Think of $\Bbb{CP}^\infty$ as $\Bbb C(z)^\times/\Bbb C^\times$ where you quotient by scalars.
@MikeMiller Ah OK
 
is it a topological group?
 
Is C(z) a topological field
 
@BalarkaSen what does $1$ mean in $1 \otimes x$?
 
@BalarkaSen if $x^k$ is the obvious generator in degree k, we have $x^n \cdot x^m = \binom{n+m}{n} x^{n+m}$
 
8:06 PM
I am identifying $H^p(B, H^q(F)) \cong H^p(B) \otimes H^q(F)$ (of course $B$ and $F$ are special here), so you can write a cohomology class there as a tensor product.
@MikeMiller Oh. That's a lot like how the algebra structure on $H^*(\Omega S^n)$ is.
Hm, maybe not.
 
it's a pity that CP^infty isn't locally compact
 
A vague proof sketch in my head suggests that's correct.
 
@BalarkaSen and then what is $1$?
 
H^0(B) = Z
 
thanks
 
8:09 PM
generated by the function that assigns 1 to everything
 
@MikeMiller Yeah ok, I did a small calculation. The $k(n-1)$-level generator is $k! \alpha^k$ where $\alpha$ is the $n-1$-level generator.
 
$\alpha^k$ I assume you mean. And yeah that sounds like the same algebra.
 
Woops, yeah
 
Actually the rest of the calculation is straightforward.
 
therefore $\Omega S^n = \Bbb CP^\infty$
 
8:12 PM
It's the same algebra with a generator in a different degree.
@LeakyNun Homology vs cohomology :)
 
Very strange.
 
they're the same
cohomology is just homology, they say, with the arrows reversed
 
The weirdest thing is that you have a cup product in homology for a finite group $G$ $H_n(BG,A) \times H_m(BG,A) \to H_{n+m+1}(BG,A)$ coming from the cup product in Tate cohomology (yes, that index is right)
 
$H^*(\Omega S^3)$ is isomorphic to $H_*(\Bbb{CP}^\infty)$ as algebras, would be the statement here, then?
@MatheinBoulomenos I never understood this shift
So $H_*(\Omega S^3)$, being the dual Hopf algebra, is $\Bbb Z[x]$, $|x| = 2$, I expect? Since $H^*(\Bbb{CP}^\infty)$ is that.
This is mad
 
@MatheinBoulomenos It's often zero.
@BalarkaSen Yup
$\Omega \Sigma X$ is called the James construction on $X$. It is the "free topological group on X", in some sense. When X has free abelian homology the homology algebra of J(X) is the tensor algebra (read: free algebra) on the reduced homology of X
 
8:21 PM
Damn
 
@MikeMiller that's pretty cool
 
Again you get this by computing the dual $H^*(\Omega \Sigma X)$ by a spectral sequence argument, I suspect?
 
I don't think so. I think there's a natural filtration on J(X) which you exploit.
 
Hm, I see.
 
Hi everyone
 
8:28 PM
can one work out geometrically what the cup-product does for $\Bbb{RP}^\infty$? If we take a generator of $H_1(\Bbb{RP}^\infty,\Bbb Z)$, then taking the cup product with it should give an isomorphism $H_{n}(\Bbb{RP}^\infty,\Bbb Z) \to H_{n+2}(\Bbb{RP}^\infty,\Bbb Z)$, I think
 
Ugh Z coefficients
Bullshit happens there man
 
Let $(X,d)$ be a metric space whose metric topology is discrete. Is the reason why that $(X,d)$ is not Geodesic essentially due to the fact that there are no continuous injections from $[0,1]$ to $X$?
 
@MatheinBoulomenos Your indexing is homological, which is annoying. $H^*(\Bbb{RP}^\infty; \Bbb Z)$ is $\Bbb Z[x]/(2x)$ where $|x| = 2$.
There's a degree-shift from homology to cohomology for RP^infty
 
@user193319 there no continuous nonconstant function $[0,1]\to X$ even
 
@LeakyNun So there's an exercise for you. Run SSS on the fibration $S^1 \to \Bbb{RP}^\infty \to \Bbb{CP}^\infty$.
Compute $H^*(\Bbb{RP}^\infty; \Bbb Z)$ thereof
 
8:41 PM
how... does the fibration work?
 
apparently, there's a geometric description for the cup-product on homology, using joins of cycles, which explains the dimension shift: arxiv.org/pdf/0911.3014.pdf
 
@LeakyNun Do finite dimensions first. Take $S^1 \to S^{2n+1} \to \Bbb{CP}^n$, Hopf fibration. This is antipodal action equivariant.
 
oh, that one
 
So passes to a fibration $\Bbb{RP}^1 \to \Bbb{RP}^{2n+1} \to \Bbb{CP}^n$.
Let $n = \infty$ :)
A'ight I'm gonna hit the sack
Cya
 
$E^2_{p,q} = H_p(\Bbb CP^\infty; H_q(S^1))$
$\begin{array}{c} Z&0&Z&0&Z&\cdots \\ Z&0&Z&0&Z&\cdots \end{array}$
 
8:48 PM
@MatheinBoulomenos This seems natural to me
For Z/2 with Z/2 coefficients the Tate cup product on homology is an isomorphism in every (pair of) degree(s)
Ok this works with Z coefficients as well. It's an iso (Z/2) otimes (Z/2) -> Z/2 when the starting degrees are both odd and otherwise automatically zero
 
I don't even know the differentials
how do I conclude that RP^2 is H(Z/2,1)
that makes no sense ignore it
@MikeMiller what's the differential in the SSS?
 
9:07 PM
amusingly, the fact that the first homotopy/homology group of RP^2 is just Z/2 shows up in physics
 
$d_p : H_p(\Bbb CP^\infty) \to H_{p+2}(\Bbb CP^\infty)$
$H_0(\Bbb RP^\infty) = \Bbb Z$
 
specifically, it shows up when you talk about defect lines in nematic liquid crystals
 
$H_1(\Bbb RP^\infty) = \ker d_0$
$H_2(\Bbb RP^\infty) = \operatorname{coker} d_0$
$H_{2n+1}(\Bbb RP^\infty) = \ker d_{2n}$
$H_{2n+2}(\Bbb RP^\infty) = \operatorname{coker} d_{2n}$
I must have reversed the arrows
 
yeah it should be $d_p : H_{p+2}(\Bbb CP^\infty) \to H_p(\Bbb CP^\infty)$
and then $H_{2n+1}(\Bbb RP^\infty) = \operatorname{coker} d_{2n}$
and $H_{2n+2}(\Bbb RP^\infty) = \ker d_{2n}$
 
9:15 PM
My memory is that the cohomological version of SSS is often more useful because you can at use leibiniz to help with figuring out the differentials
 
cohomological SSS goes in the opposite direction
$E^2_{p,q} = H^p(\Bbb CP^\infty; H^q(S^1)) = H^p(\Bbb CP^\infty) \otimes_\Bbb Z H^q(S^1)$
 
Sure
 
$d_p : \Bbb Z \otimes_\Bbb Z \Bbb Z \to \Bbb Z \otimes_\Bbb Z \Bbb Z$
$d_p : H^p(\Bbb CP^\infty) \otimes_\Bbb Z H^1(S^1) \to H^{p+2}(\Bbb CP^\infty) \otimes_\Bbb Z H^0(S^1)$
@loch where is that memory from?
 
From preparing for my quals lol
haven't really worked with SS often since then
 
cool
 
9:21 PM
spectral sequences on quals?
 
Algtop
 
$d_0 : H^0(\Bbb CP^\infty) \otimes_\Bbb Z H^1(S^1) \to H^2(\Bbb CP^\infty) \otimes_\Bbb Z H^0(S^1)$
kill me
why can't we use cellular homology
ok I won't
$d_0(1^0 \otimes 1^1) = d_0((1^0 \otimes 1^0) (1^0 \otimes 1^1)) = (1^0 \otimes 1^0) d_0(1^0 \otimes 1^1)$ ok this isn't useful
ok so we know that $H^{2n+1}(\Bbb RP^\infty) = \Bbb Z$ and $H^{2n+2}(\Bbb RP^\infty) = \Bbb Z/k_n\Bbb Z$
well I must have reversed them again because this is impossible because $H^1(\Bbb RP^\infty) = \Bbb Z/2\Bbb Z$
oh no
$H_1(\Bbb RP^\infty) = \Bbb Z/2\Bbb Z$ so $H^1 = 0$
I wrote $H^{2n+1}(\Bbb RP^\infty) = \Bbb Z$ but it should be $k_n \Bbb Z$.
I wrongly thought that $k_n \ne 0$
ok $H^1(\Bbb RP^\infty) = 0$, $H^2(\Bbb RP^\infty) = \Bbb Z/0\Bbb Z = \Bbb Z$
that means $d_0 = 0$
$d_2 : H^2(\Bbb CP^\infty) \otimes_\Bbb Z H^1(S^1) \to H^4(\Bbb CP^\infty) \otimes_\Bbb Z H^0(S^1)$
$d_2(1^2 \otimes 1^1) = (1^2 \otimes 1^0)~d_0(1^0 \otimes 1^1) + (1^0 \otimes 1^1) ~ d_1(1^\color{red}2 \otimes 1^\color{red}0) = 0+0 = 0$
red is unsure, because I identified $1^2 \otimes 1^0$ with $1^1 \otimes 1^1$
I don't even know what the Leibniz rule should be
 
9:46 PM
but isn't $H^2(\Bbb{RP}^\infty)=\Bbb Z/2\Bbb Z$?
 
that's not good
what is $H_2(\Bbb RP^\infty)$ then?
 
what's in red here
I'm red-green colorblind
 
let's say I'm not even sure if I applied the Leibniz rule correctly
 
$H_2(\Bbb{RP}^\infty)=0$
 
what's the relation between $H_n$ and $H^n$...?
 
9:49 PM
universal coefficients theorem. Here the only thing that matters is the Ext-term
 
oh my word
$0 \to \operatorname{Ext}_R^1(\operatorname{H}_{i-1}(X; R), G) \to H^i(X; G) \, \overset{h} \to \, \operatorname{Hom}_R(H_i(X; R), G)\to 0$
ok let's see
 
$H_{2n}(\Bbb{RP}^\infty)=0$ for $n\geq 1$ and $H_{2n+1}(\Bbb{RP}^\infty)=\Bbb Z/2\Bbb Z$. You can compute $H^n$ from that
 
I don't want to
I need to compute it from the SSS
 
ok so $0 \to \operatorname{Ext}(H_0(\Bbb RP^\infty), \Bbb Z) \to H^1(\Bbb RP^\infty) \to \operatorname{Hom}(H_1(\Bbb RP^\infty), \Bbb Z) \to 0$
$H_1(\Bbb RP^\infty) = \pi_1(\Bbb RP^\infty)^{ab} + C_2^{ab} = \Bbb Z/2\Bbb Z$
so $0 \to \operatorname{Ext}(\Bbb Z, \Bbb Z) \to H^1(\Bbb RP^\infty) \to 0 \to 0$
 
9:54 PM
I think you have $\operatorname{Ext}(H_{i+1}(X),\Bbb Z)$ not $i-1$
 
I copied from the source code of Wiki
 
btw i think it would make life easier if you drop the tensor notation and just identify $H^*(\mathbb{C}\mathbb{P}^{\infty},\mathbb{Z})$ with $\mathbb{Z}[x]$ with $|x|=2$ and $H^*(S^1,\mathbb{Z})$ with $\mathbb{Z}[y]/(y^2)$ with $|y|=1$
(or maybe you really like writing $\otimes$ and using a bunch of $1$'s)
 
oops, right you get $H^1(\Bbb{RP}^\infty)=0$ as you should, lol
 
I'm new to all of these
since Z is projective, by balancing we have Ext(Z,Z) = 0
you guys are spoiling everything lol
which is ok
so $H^1(\Bbb RP^\infty) = 0$
 
but you haven't computed that by the spectral sequence
 
9:57 PM
I don't think that's possible
so $d_0(1 \otimes y) = x \otimes 1$
and aha I finally understand where the $1$ comes from... it's a ring!
oops
oh right
$H^{2n+1}(\Bbb RP^\infty) = \ker d_{2n} = \begin{cases} \Bbb Z & k_{2n} = 0 \\ 0 & k_{2n} \ne 0 \end{cases}$
$H^{2n+2}(\Bbb RP^\infty) = \operatorname{coker}d_{2n} = \Bbb Z/k_{2n}\Bbb Z$
$0 \to \operatorname{Ext}(H_1(\Bbb RP^\infty), \Bbb Z) \to H^2(\Bbb RP^\infty) \to \operatorname{Hom}(H_2(\Bbb RP^\infty), \Bbb Z) \to 0$
$0 \to \operatorname{Ext}(\Bbb Z/2\Bbb Z, \Bbb Z) \to H^2(\Bbb RP^\infty) \to \operatorname{Hom}(0, \Bbb Z) \to 0$
@MatheinBoulomenos what is Ext(Z/2Z,Z) lol
 
10:12 PM
@LeakyNun you can compute this via the projective resolution $0 \to \Bbb Z \xrightarrow{\cdot 2} \Bbb Z \to \Bbb Z/2\Bbb Z \to 0$
 
0 -> Z -> Z -> Z/2 -> 0 induces 0 -> Hom(Z/2Z,Z) -> Hom(Z,Z) -> Hom(Z,Z) -> Ext(Z/2Z,Z) -> Ext(Z,Z)
 
so 0 -> Z -> Z -> Ext(Z/2Z,Z) -> 0
intuition tells me that Ext(Z/2Z,Z) = Z/2Z
so $H^2(\Bbb RP^\infty) = \Bbb Z/2\Bbb Z$
 
the map on Hom(Z,Z)->Hom(Z,Z) is induced from multiplication by 2
 
so actually $d_0(1 \otimes y) = 2x \otimes 1$
 
10:14 PM
it's just multiplication by 2 for homomorphisms Z->Z
in fact, this argument generalizes to show that $\operatorname{Ext}^1_R(R/(a),M)=M/aM$
 
deja vu
2
Q: $\operatorname{Ext}^\bullet_R(R/rR,M)$ and $0 \to A[r] \to B[r] \to C[r] \to A/rA \to B/rB \to C/rC \to 0$

Kenny Lau$\newcommand{Ext}{\operatorname{Ext}}\newcommand{Hom}{\operatorname{Hom}_R}$Let $R$ be a commutative ring with unity and $r \in R$. Applying snake lemma to the following diagram: $$\begin{array}{c} 0 & \longrightarrow & A~~ & \longrightarrow & B~~ & \longrightarrow & C~~ & \longrightarrow & 0 \\ &

a question I abandoned lol
 
ah lol, we need non-zero divisor of course
 
$d(x^2 y) = x^2dy+2ydx = 2x^3$
$d(x^{2n} y) = x^{2n} dy + 2nx^{2n-1}ydx = 2x^{2n+1} + 0 = 2x^{2n+1}$
interesting
so $H^{2n+1}(\Bbb RP^\infty) = 0$ and $H^{2n+2}(\Bbb RP^\infty) = \Bbb Z/2\Bbb Z$
oh and $H^\bullet(\Bbb RP^\infty) = (\Bbb Z/2\Bbb Z)[t]$ with $|t|=2$
 
right, so you need H^2 as input and then you get the rest from the SS I guess
 
right
I see that I have a lot to learn
what am I doing
what the hell @MatheinBoulomenos
 
10:42 PM
ok this is enough I'm going to sleep
 
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