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9:00 PM
Oh, so there really is a function between, e.g., $K'$ and $M$? It will be a homomorphism, right?
@loch I don't think they necessarily the kernel and cokernel. That was the first part of the theorem, and they were denoted by $K$ and $C$ (no apostrophe)$.
 
yes - if it says it's an exact sequence or more generally a chain complex there are maps despite he didn't give them names!
oh - then i guess you're supposed to prove that they do correspond to the kernel and cokernel using exactness
of course i guess when i said inclusion maybe one should be more careful and just say that the image of $K'\rightarrow M$ is equal to the kernel of $f$, and hence probably it's more correct to say $K'$ is isomorphic to the kernel
but anyway
 
Ah, I think I see what you're saying. I'll just go and work out the details now. Thanks!
 
The new Star Wars movie in summary
Han Swolo just got lit yo
 
9:22 PM
lol I emailed my analysis I professor to see if she could help me self-learn analysis over the summer. at first I asked my analysis ii professor but he told me he's spending the summer in France
turns out my analysis one prof is married to my analysis ii prof and theyre both in france together rip
 
9:33 PM
hi, a @Balarka
 
How's it going, Ted?
 
plugging along ... you all done with exams?
 
Yep.
 
Yippee.
They went OK?
 
I want to believe I'll get in one of the two universities I applied for.
As it went good, more or less
 
9:35 PM
Cool ... In the US 2 is too small a number to apply to.
(Are there any other "too" "to" "two"s I can work into that sentence?)
Oh, maybe a tutu
 
"et tu, Brute" somehow
 
Well, if we're gonna use other languages, I have lots more to go.
 
Yeah, there's not many universities in India with a decent mathematics syllabus. Hah, you're turning into a rapper
 
Interesting ... I thought India was a hotbed of mathematics.
 
thats surprising
 
9:37 PM
Heya guys.
 
howdy
 
I am trying to prove the uniquess of a Möbius transformation. What I got so far is that $w=\dfrac{(z_2-z_1)(z_2-z_3)}{(z_2-z_3)(z_2-z_1)}$
 
wow, it's past demonic Alessandro's bedtime.
 
@TedShifrin Well, there's a battery of universities which have a good undergrad program in mathematics called the "IITs" but their entrance procedure is really hard (it's a Physics+Chemistry+Mathematics test with a limited amount of time and hard problems), so I didn't take it. There's only a handful of others which have their independent admission exams out of those
 
9:39 PM
That certainly is not correct, @Topologicalife. What do you mean by uniqueness, anyhow?
 
It's really competitive, but so it is.
 
Ah @Balarka.
 
@TedShifrin It's not even midnight here!
 
@TedShifrin What I got so far has a typo, give me some minutes :D
 
There are many universities with a good, less competitive graduate program on the other hand
I think in the US it's the opposite, with the quals and all...
 
9:41 PM
I mean that there is a unique linear fractional transformation that maps three distinct points to three distinct points in the extended complex plane.
 
Aha. Well, if you (correctly) derive a formula for what it has to be, that proves uniqueness.
So you know that Möbius transformations preserve cross-ratio?
 
No I don't.
 
Ah. Have you learned cross-ratio?
 
What I tried is to write down the explicit transformation and see what happens if I have two or four points
No I didn't.
 
Do you know where Möbius transformations come from in terms of linear algebra?
 
9:44 PM
No I didn't
OO
 
You don't know much, do you?
So just hack it all out, then. Get a formula.
 
Haha, I haven't idea of this
 
Use $f(z)=(az+b)/(cz+d)$, solve the equations $f(z_i)=w_i$ for $i=1,2,3$. You can divide through and get rid of one of the $a,b,c,d$. For example, you can assume $d=0$ or $d=1$. What must happen if $d=0$?
 
Actually if $S(q_j) = p_j$ and $R(q_j) = p_j$ are two Möbius transformations then $S(z) - R(z)$ has order at most 2
But I know Möbius transformations can have at most three zeros
 
What's your definition of order?
 
9:48 PM
Uhm wait that is what I am trying to prove
 
No, Möbius transformations can have precisely one zero.
 
I mean it has order at most 2, then it can have at most two zeros
 
The difference isn't a Möbius transformation.
OK, so that'll do it, if you check that.
 
Uhm I have a book which computes $\dfrac{w-w_1}{w-w_3}=\dfrac{cz_1+d}{cz_3+d}\dfrac{z_2-z_3}{z_2-z_1} $ and $\dfrac{w_2-w_3}{w_2-w_1}=\dfrac{cz_1+d}{cz_3+d}\dfrac{z_2-z_3}{z_2-z_1}$
 
You still have typos.
 
9:53 PM
And it says that multiplying both expressions we will get: $\dfrac{(w-w_1)(w_2-w_3)}{(w-w_3)(w_2-w_1)}=\dfrac{(z-z_1)(z_2-z_3)}{(z-z_3)(z_2‌​-z_1)}$
 
I'm confused. Are you proceeding with your order 2 argument or are you bashing algebra?
 
Which I don't see how he concludes
Bashing Algebra
 
Well, forget the book and work it out for yourself. You still have typos and I don't have the patience to figure it out.
 
I alreeady saw how to do it with the order argument. I will finish it later.
(I copied it literally, so my notes have typos)
 
The first equation has $w$ in it but not $z$.
So it's wrong.
 
9:55 PM
They get it from here $w-w_k=\dfrac{az+b}{cz+d}-\dfrac{az_k+b}{cz_k+d}=\dfrac{(ad-bc)(z-z_k)}{(cz+d)(c‌​z_k+d)}$
Doing $k=1$ and $k=3$
 
Well, that looks reasonable.
Do it for yourself and get the algebra right.
 
I got $\dfrac{w-w_1}{w-w_3}=\dfrac{(z-z_1)(cz_3+d)}{(cz_1+d) (z-z_3)}$
 
Nope.
hi @Mathein
 
Hi @Ted
 
Fixed.
 
10:03 PM
That looks more plausible, @Topologicalife.
 
Since it holds for $w_k = z_k$ with $k=1,2,3$ I can make the subtitution $w \to w_2$ and $z \to z_2$
And get another equation
 
so I can get ride of $c$ and $d$
And it is done.
Thanks Sir :)
 
I don't see how that gets rid of $c$ and $d$, but I'm not doing it.
 
Because:
If I replace what I said I get $\dfrac{w_2-w_1}{w_2-w_3}=\dfrac{(z_2-z_1)(cz_3+d)}{(cz_1+d) (z_2-z_3)}$
And multiplying this expression with the last one I can simplify the terms $cz_1+d$ and $cz_3+d$
 
10:07 PM
YOu mean dividing ?
 
Well, not multiplying
Yeah.
 
The paper I will give a talk on next week is so dense that i'm going to talk 90 minutes about less than 2 pages and I'm not even sure if I can make it
 
I did two hour-long seminar talks in grad school on about 5 pages of a paper.
 
Is not a black hole, it is? :P
 
10:08 PM
Maybe not even 5 pages.
Still one of my favorite papers.
 
And I have panic of talking in public.
 
it's not really in public. There are three people listening
 
I had about 40.
And we never figured out everything ...
 
Now it is time to learn what you said earlier, Ted. Let see what is the cross-ration and how the Möbius transformations come from in terms of linear algebra.
 
10:10 PM
OK, @Topologicalife.
 
Evening all
 
Hey @ÍgjøgnumMeg
 
Heya.
 
@ÍgjøgnumMeg I'm going to give two talks in the next two weeks where I prove local CFT
 
@MatheinBoulomenos wow nice
in Heidelberg?
 
10:13 PM
yeah
 
what kind of math do you need to understand CFT?
 
@Mathein nice man, let me know how it goes
 
you need algebraic number theory to understand the statements
for the proofs, there are different approaches
you can use representation theory and complex analysis (for the global case), group cohomology (works for both local and global, I think), harmonic analysis on locally compact groups, formal groups (for local) ...
there may also be combinations of those stuff
 
@TedShifrin if I want to find a linear transformation which maps $|z-i| \leq 2$ into $\Im(z) \geq 0$, is not uniquer right? If unique for three particular points.
 
and when you have both of local or global, you can use it to prove the other one
 
10:16 PM
Wow sounds pretty interesting, good for you
 
@TedShifrin good morning
 
Very not unique. You can compose with any automorphism of the upper half plane.
Hi @Faust
 
Hi @Faust
 
Oh I see, thanks.
 
Morning @MatheinBoulomenos hows your summer projects going?
 
10:17 PM
"very not unique" is one of the finer phrases I've heard recently
 
Not working on it right now. I'm busy with the semester
 
ic ic
 
hey speaking of Moebius transvformations, @TedShifrin
 
6 grad courses and being a TA/grader may a bit much
 
I never found a source deal with the matrix representations of M.Transforms except to compose and invert
 
10:18 PM
@MatheinBoulomenos did you know that takeing a course in something thats not math is really easy?
 
you're absurd, @Mathein
 
is there a reason they're not used to solve for coefficients?
are tehy just not helpful?
 
what's everybody's math level?
 
@GFauxPas: It's all $PSL(2,\Bbb C)$.
 
9001
 
10:19 PM
hahaaha
 
I don't know that notation
 
@geocalc33 im a complete noob O.o
 
@TedShifrin two of those are just seminars where I only give to a few talks
 
SL is special linear
 
In my undergraduate algebra book, I wrote a whole chapter on projective geometry, using matrices and group actions.
 
10:19 PM
I, too, am a complete noob
 
Still, @Mathein, absurd.
$P$ means projective: You mod out by the center. @GFauxPas
 
@geocalc33 I'm about to finish my undergrad this year. I still have a long way to go and feel like I know nothing
 
oh, right
 
anyone familiar with graph theory
 
but, say
 
10:20 PM
yeah a bit
 
just using matrix algebra
 
I'm taking a course in graph theory atm
 
I have a degree but i want to do a master's
 
i want to do a masters too
 
I want to find the transformation $(z,1;0,\infty) = (w,0;\infty,9)$
 
10:21 PM
not sure i smrt enough though but going to try anyway
 
or something
 
You can do it just with matrices. $0$ and $\infty$ correspond to basis vectors $(1,0)$, $(0,1)$.
 
@TedShifrin Ted :D
 
would I solve a system by writing, like, $T \begin{bmatrix} 1 \\ t \end{bmatrix} = \begin{bmatrix} 0 \\ t \end{bmatrix}$ and so on?
 
@MatheinBoulomenos mathein :D
 
10:22 PM
Then $1$ corresponds to $(1,1)$. And you just have to think about the freedom to scale appropriately.
I don't know where that came from, @GFauxPas.
 
@KasmirKhaan hey
 
hi @Kasmir. You alive?
 
I thought you take $t$ to be a dummy variable in the projective space
you're setting it as $1$ though?
 
@MatheinBoulomenos I wanted to thank you again just that :D what r u doing atm ?
@TedShifrin am fine now thanks! =P
 
10:23 PM
Hello antonios!
 
You have to do it correctly, @GFauxPas.
 
and I think you have it switched, wouldnt $(1,0)$ be infinity?
 
Morning @Antonios-AlexandrosRobotis
 
Hi @Antonios!
 
hi @KasmirKhaan
 
10:23 PM
Ted I have a question for ya
 
@KasmirKhaan I'm preparing a seminar talk I will give next week
Hi @Antonios-AlexandrosRobotis
 
hi @MatheinBoulomenos, @TedShifrin @Faust
 
am thinking of studing for engeneer paralell to math is that a good idea?
 
IT's a matter of convention. To me $z_0=1$ is the usual numbers and $z_0=0$ is the point at infinity.
 
@MatheinBoulomenos about ?
 
10:24 PM
@KasmirKhaan it's about local class field theory
 
@KasmirKhaan depends do u want to be a engineer or a mathematician
 
@MatheinBoulomenos when you done with it, if you have a papper please send us so we learn something :D
 
I just like being able to map $\begin{bmatrix} a \\ b \end{bmatrix} \mapsto a/b$ with $1/0$ identified as complex infinity
but i guess its just a convention
 
@KasmirKhaan I'm not writing a paper on it
I'm presenting the results from a paper
 
@Faust from what i seen, I can be mathematician but not a top one ><
okay mathein ! I hope it goes well :D
 
10:26 PM
@KasmirKhaan you didnt answer my question
 
I want to be mathematician more Faust!
but also i know my abilities
 
then do that or you'll regret it later in life
 
hmm
good point
 
plus your not bad at math
math is hard
 
it should not be that hard at this stage
 
10:27 PM
not just for you everyone struggles with it
 
and i have alot of troubles with it
 
It keeps getting harder.
 
when i see how awesome mathein and anon are
 
@KasmirKhaan so?
 
i kinda feel helpless in comparision
 
10:28 PM
so Ted you would write $\begin{bmatrix} A & B \\ C & D \end{bmatrix} \begin{bmatrix} z \\ 1 \end{bmatrix} = \begin{bmatrix} w \\ 1 \end{bmatrix}$ for $z, w \neq \infty$ and solve the equations that way?
 
I want to be like them :D
but am not sure what is missing ><
 
@KasmirKhaan thanks, but I also struggle a lot
 
im not good at math
 
You do have to allow yourself to scale, @GFauxPas, when needed.
 
@MatheinBoulomenos modest! :D but thanks
 
10:28 PM
I think it's necessary for learning
 
i still want to be a mathematician
 
Try doing some simple examples and you'll see ...
 
I ll keep fighting !
thanks yall :D
 
I couldnt find a single worked example on this when I googled it for over an hour :(
 
Get my book :P
 
10:29 PM
@KasmirKhaan It's mostly a function of hard work.
 
is this the free pdf one
which one
 
No, but it might be in the library. This is the algebra book.
 
whats it called
 
You'll figure it out if you look up my name.
 
@Antonios-AlexandrosRobotis I agree nothing comes for free, but our courses are 2 months long, and i feel lost after 3 weeks ><
not fully lost, but i feel like i need more time to trully understand not just go further
 
10:30 PM
Where his name is Ted "A Geometric Approach" Shifrin
7
 
oh yikes $97 for used
 
haha
 
(I know it's not your fault I'm just saying yikes)
 
I didn't say to buy it.
 
10:30 PM
@KasmirKhaan your classes are taught at a pretty fast pace
 
yes faust
super super fast
its a natrual selection from first years
 
k i'll check my library thanks :)
right now though my self-imposed task is to get through Folland's analysis book
 
amount of hard work u do isnt natural selection
 
@Kasmir: I'm not sure my upper-level courses are much slower than yours.
 
the genious will survive , little less than that, ull be at hard spot
 
10:31 PM
I made a network and was wondering what common things graph theorists study in graphs
 
@TedShifrin quality yours are far better, quatity ours are more by far
 
networks are just a type of graph geocalc
 
directed graph with some junk attached to it
 
yeah i know:)
 
10:32 PM
if we learn the way you teach, many of the students in our uni will survive @TedShifrin
 
I still cover a lot of material, more than most other faculty, @Kasmir.
I guess I need to put past tense.
 
The one graph I made had over a thousand vertices
 
I also graded the homeworks in upper-level courses myself. So students didn't get away with crap.
 
@TedShifrin yes! iv seen courses from other unis, but what they do for a semester , we cover more in 2 months period
nice =P
 
hi @Daminark
 
10:33 PM
14 lectures btw Ted
each lecture is 90 min
 
@KasmirKhaan im getting by with better and better grades as i advance through the years so i dont think thats true
 
14 lectures for a semester? For a quarter of a year?
 
I got few A's and B's
2 months Ted
 
Anonymous
Hello. I'm not being able to understand this answer completely. Any idea what $<\bigcup_{i\in I}G_i>$ means in that context?
 
but overall , i feel like am not as good as needed
 
10:34 PM
@user48929 the subgroup generated by that union
 
@KasmirKhaan no offence but you need to learn the basics alittle better imo it makes the harder math fall into place
 
@Faust no where in that i would be offended ! and that is my plan for the summer!
doing linear algebra and algebra from scratch
 
you could also take less classes i know alot of people only take 2 math class and 1 other non math per semester or at most 3 math classes
 
got couple of books recoomanded by Ted and Mathein :D
 
Oh, well, typically our courses were 150 minutes of lecture per week, so in 8 weeks that's 20 hours of lecture. Yours is 21 hours. Pretty much the same.
 
10:36 PM
yes Ted but we dont have time because of time pressure
we do 2 lecturs a week
 
A lot of ours are the same, Kasmir.
 
and if you dont understand what been said on the lecture, it will be hard and impossible on the next
Okay ><
 
But our semesters in the US are between 12 and 15 weeks. I don't know how much you actually cover in the 2 months.
 
tahts why alot of math majours dont take 4 or 5 or 6 classes a semester
 
the lectures talks nonstop
no questions asked last 7 lectures mostly because either ones get it all or nothing
I took 4 ><
 
10:38 PM
I told my advisees to take only 2, maybe 3 if the classes were easier or the student particularly good, @Faust. Never more.
 
and went nuts for a while :D
I ll go ahead and do 2 from now on
 
yeah, I think I need to stop with this kind of load at some point or else I'll get burned out eventually
 
I'm taking one or maybe two courses next semester
 
@TedShifrin im reasonably good at hard work i have gotten 5 A+ with all 3rd and 4th year math classes and my friend always takes 6 classes a semester about the same grades as me but he actually a genius.
 
4 these last 2 semesters has been exhausting.
I guess I'm doing thesis stuff now, anyway.
 
10:39 PM
but I look at the courses offered and I think "I need to take those courses, there's no way that I can't take this course etc."
 
btw if you share something on overleaf is it private or public? ><
 
Grad students are supposed to be exhausted, @Antonios :P
 
anyone want to see a piece of art/math
 
@MatheinBoulomenos know the feeling
 
@TedShifrin i'll be in greece and then switzerland for all of june :P trying to get some rest
 
10:40 PM
yes geocalc
 
@KasmirKhaan it's available to those that have the url
 
Ah, right, @Antonios. We'll miss you.
 
there's no way to search for something if you don't have the url afaik
 
don't worry, I have internet in greece still heh
things haven't gotten that bad yet.
 
@MatheinBoulomenos okay thanks omg >< i was scared ><
 
10:41 PM
I got offered a summer course in algebra at anther university should i take it? its a week of 8hrs of abstract algebra all expenses including travel and lodging paid? @TedShifrin @MatheinBoulomenos
 
Anonymous
@MatheinBoulomenos Thanks. I'm trying to convey what I understand from that answer. If I draw the Hasse diagram, I need to show that every pair of subgroups must have an unique greatest lower bound and unique least upper bound. Now, according to the answerer some of groups will form a chain structure (not sure why?). Each of those chains will contain the intersection of groups which form the chain and also the union of those groups.
 
btw mathein ! on summer time ill be asking ya on algebra :D
i hope u wont disappear :D
 
Is it covering stuff that you don't know, @Faust? Will your uni give credit? Will your doctor allow it?
 
@Faust if you have time and you feel up for it, it sounds good
 
If $A$ is a closed set then $X \setminus A$ is open, and no point $p \in X\setminus A$ can be a limit point of $A$, because to be a limit point of $A$ every neighbourhood of $p$ needs to contain at least one point of $A \setminus \lbrace p \rbrace = A$, and since $X \setminus A$ is a neighbourhood of $p$ (being that it is open), this is an example of a neighbourhood of $p$ without the required property
Does that make sense...?
lol
 
10:43 PM
no credit its covering stuff i dont already know its in august so my doctor should let me, but i am a bit slow at getting used to how people teach i don't wanna waste the position someone else who could learn more could take
 
What's it covering, @Faust?
No credit, so only lectures, no homework? Group work with other students?
 
($X$ a topological space and $A \subseteq X$)
 
@user48929 I haven't read the answer in detail, but it's not that difficult. The main point is the easy fact that any intersection of subgroups will again be a subgroup. This intersection gives you the greatest lower bound since any subgroup that is contained in some family of subgroups is also contained in their intersection
 
its basically a grad level intro to algebra class i was selected from the university based on my grades and relevant knowledge
but im not sure the exact material id feel more comfortable if i know what it was on
there apparently seminars with it from smart people
 
for upper bounds if you have some subgroups $(U_i)_{i \in I}$, then you can take the intersection of all subgroups that contain the union $\bigcup_{i \in I} U_i$ (this is equal to the subgroup generated by the union). You get that this a least upper bound basically by definition
 
Anonymous
10:46 PM
@MatheinBoulomenos Yeah, I was thinking along that line too. But I am not being able to convince myself that always such chain structures will exist in the Hasse diagram
 
If it's an open-ended, low-pressure learning experience, go have the experience, @Faust.
 
Anonymous
Also, for a lattice I need to show that there is an unique lowest upper bound for every pair of elements rather for a chain only
 
hmm ok, thanks for advice
 
@user48929 well, there's no harm in doing it for arbitrary collections
 
FINALLY GOT 6/8 YEARS OF MY TAXES DONE
go accountant
 
10:47 PM
applied math is hard.
 
lol
 
but I don't see why you talk about chains. You just need least upper bounds and greatest lower bounds
if you're doing sup and inf for arbitary collections, then you're showing it's a complete lattice. Not really more difficult in this case
 
anyone know a good book for measure theory etc mine sucks
 
Royden is the standard from years and years.
There's also Stein/Stakarchi and Folland, probably a bit harder.
 
is it a good analysis book?
 
10:51 PM
Also, if you see "a subset that does not meet another subset" is this just jargon for "has no points in common"?
 
I enjoyed folland @Faust
 
What book are you guys using, @Faust? I don't know the level.
 
@ÍgjøgnumMeg yeah
 
self learning
 
@mathin cheers
@mathein*
 
10:51 PM
You said "mine sucks"
 
one sec
 
this is a good place to learn measure theory: andrew.cmu.edu/user/awodey/students/jackson.pdf
2
 
Anonymous
@MatheinBoulomenos You mean the union of certain subgroups $G_i$ gives the least upper bound for those subgroups, right?
 
no, the union of subgroups will not be a subgroup
 
@TedShifrin intro to real analysis william F trench
 
10:54 PM
but for every subset, there's a smallest subgroup that contains it (the subgroup generated by that subset) if you take the union of some subgroups as the subset, taking the subgroup generated by it will give you the least upper bounds
 
I thought I'd looked at that book once, @Faust. I don't recall measure theory.
 
"The topos $\operatorname{Sh}(\mathcal F)$ of sheaves on a $\sigma$-algebra $\mathcal F$ is a natural home for measure theory"
 
There's no measure theory in that, @Faust.
It's just standard single-variable and multivariable analysis.
 
mm you're right this is the wrong book
 
growls loudly
 
10:57 PM
this is my analysis book
well one of them sorry
wait whats measure theory
maybe i have the wrong concept
what i want has to do with the reimann integral
 
measure theory is the foundations for Lebesgue integrals and more general things.
 
my impression of measure theory so far has been that you prove some big theorems that are used a lot and then you can forget about most constructions basically
 
Anonymous
@MatheinBoulomenos I'm not sure what you mean by subgroup generated by a subset. Let's consider $\Bbb Z_2\times \Bbb Z_2$. The members of the group are $\{(0,0),(0,1),(1,0),(1,1)\}$. Say I take an arbitrary subset $\{(0,0),(0,1),(1,1)\}$. What would be the subgroup generated by it?
 
maybe people who do more analysis will disagree with me there
 
You are an algebraist, @Mathein.
 
10:58 PM
ok so im not crazy
 
That's actually what my professor in grad measure theory told us @MatheinBoulomenos lol
 
@user48929 this subset generates the whole group
 

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