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9:09 PM
hiiii
 
9:27 PM
linear algebra question I've been bashing my head against
 
@Semiclassical spill
 
let $U$ be an $n$-by-$n$ unitary matrix and let $\Lambda = \text{diag}(e^{-i \beta m})$ where $m=-j,-j+1,\cdots,j$ and $j=(n-1)/2$. I'm trying to show that the matrix elements of $U\Lambda U^{-1}$ are polynomials in $\cos(\beta/2),\sin\beta(/2)$
 
so n is odd?
 
blah, $\sin(\beta/2)$
and no, it needn't be. If n=2, for instance, you'll have $j=1/2$ and $\Lambda=\text{diag}(e^{-i\beta/2},e^{i\beta/2})$
 
rolls 15 eyes
 
9:35 PM
The conventions are coming from physics. probably the better way to do this is to replace $\beta=2\theta$ and $m=k/2$
in which case $\Lambda=\text{diag}(e^{-ik\theta})$ where $k=n-1,n-3,\cdots,-n+1$
but it's yucky regardless
 
Hi everyone.
 
@LeakyNun Hey! What's the big idea?!
 
lol
theft of intellectual property is No Joke
 
hi @CaptainAmerica. Did you get my response from last night?
Rehi @Mathein
 
rehi @Ted
 
9:43 PM
hmm. $\sum_{m=-j}^j U_{m_1 m} \overline{U_{m_2 m}}e^{-i\beta m}$
physics notation: sometimes I love you, and sometimes I want to strangle you
I have not decided about this specific case yet.
 
Do we know what you're babbling about?
 
same thing as above with LeakyNun
 
@TedShifrin Yes I did.
 
Oh ... This looks like the spin double-cover of $SO$, with those half/double angles.
 
9:46 PM
Do you understand how I want you to think about understanding things and using them in the next part, @CaptainAmerica?
 
bah, connection suddenly decided to be stooopid
I'm doing things in a physics-standard way and enumerating the matrix elements of $U$ according to $m_1,m_2\in\{-j,-j+1,\cdots,j\}$ rather than $i,j\in\{1,2,\cdots,n\}$
 
Where $2j=n$?
Heya @Eric.
 
hmm, should be $2j=n-1$ I think.
 
Oh yeah. So $n$ has to be odd?
 
9:52 PM
for j to be integer, sure
but j being half-integer is perfectly fine
 
For enumerating entries of a matrix? Oy.
 
@TedShifrin Ooh. You can prove it using an "arithmetic" approach, can't you?
 
That's all it was in the first place, @CaptainAmerica.
 
I'm getting more special all the time :D
 
9:53 PM
for j=1/2, for instance, you'd label the rows/columns as {-1/2,1/2} instead of as {1,2}
it is sorta annoying but it's standard
 
Proving $a<b \implies -b<-a$ is just arithmetic. Saying $b-a>0$ is the same thing as saying $(-a)-(-b)>0$.
 
That said, I probably will make my life easier if I convert to the standard indices
 
Can somebody explain why R/(I+m^T) is of finite length module?
 
@TedShifrin It makes so much sense now! All right, I'm going to try and prove it right now.
 
9:55 PM
You should ask @Mathein. But you should also define your symbols when you do.
 
I'll asume $R$ is a commutative ring and m is a maximal ideal and t is a positive integer
 
@CaptainAmerica: Sometimes it really is better to have a human teacher.
LOL @Mathein
 
Take $k=m+j+1$, so that {-j,-j+1,...,j} -> {1,2,...,2j+1} where $n=2j+1$
 
yes @MatheinBoulomenos
 
@ninjahatori do you know why $R/m^t$ is a finite-length module?
 
9:56 PM
why R/(I+m^T)M is of finite length module?
 
$R/(I+m^t)$ is a quotient of $R/m^t$, quotients of finite length modules are of finite length
 
What's that $M$ in there?
 
@TedShifrin On the bright side I've gained a lot of math confidence from doing Spivak (and other math) semi-independently. Some stuff I've figured out, I never would have been able to before - or I would have been too uncomfortable to try.
 
(that follows from the definition of length and the correspondence between submodules in a quotient $X/Y$ and submodules of $X$ that contain $Y$)
 
In which case the matrix elements become $$(U\Lambda U^{-1})_{k_1,k_2}=\sum_{k=1}^n U_{k_1 k} e^{-i\beta(k-(n+1)/2)}\overline{U_{k_2k}}$$
 
9:58 PM
Let {R} be a noetherian local ring with maximal ideal {\mathfrak{m}} and residue field {k}, {S} be a local finitely generated {R}-algebra with {\mathfrak{m}S \subset \mathfrak{n}} for {\mathfrak{n}} the maximal ideal of {S}, and {M} a finitely generated {S}-module.
 
(i'm assuming $U$ is unitary)
 
@CaptainAmerica: I hope you will get stronger and stronger with practice/time.
 
okay, the Noetherian part is important here
the other stuff, not so much
(okay it's important that $\mathfrak{m}$ is maximal)
so you can show by induction that $R/\mathfrak{m}^t$ is of finite length, the argument goes like this:
for $t=1$, $R/\mathfrak{m}$ is simple as $\mathfrak{m}$ is maximal, thus the length is $1$
 
hrm, did I write that right: k=1-> k-(n+1)/2 = -(n-1)/2, k=n ->n-(n+1)/2 = (n-1)/2
okay, checks out
 
@TedShifrin I say the same thing about my hand-eye coordination. Can't wait to see what the future holds :D
 
10:01 PM
assume that you already know that $R/\mathfrak{m}^t$ has finite length, then consider the exact sequence
$0 \to \mathfrak{m}/\mathfrak{m}^{t+1} \to R/\mathfrak{m}^{t+1} \to R/\mathfrak{m} \to 0$
 
Now, if $n$ is odd, then $k-(n+1)/2$ is always even, so I end up with a linear combination of even powers of $e^{-i\beta/2}=\cos(\beta/2)+i\sin(\beta/2)$
 
Also, my eye-leg coordination. I fell down the steps the other day and bruised up my legs.
 
Can we insert a limit inside a trig function? For example, can we do?: $$\displaystyle\lim_{n\to\infty}{\sin\frac{2n+1}{-2n^2+7}}=\sin\lim_{n\to\infty}‌​{\frac{2/n+1/n^2}{-2+7/n^2}}=\sin(0^-)=0^-?$$
 
which is certainly a polynomial in cos(beta/2) and sin(beta/2)
So the only case of interest is when n is even
 
@Ted do u know of any obstructions to globally defining a k\"ahler potential
 
10:02 PM
You're the absent-minded professor barely 17 yrs old @CaptainAmerica
 
oh. but I guess we've got $(e^{-i\beta/2})^{2k-n-1}$ regardless
 
note that $\mathfrak{m}^t$ annihilates $\mathfrak{m}/\mathfrak{m}^{t+1}$, so it's a module over $R/\mathfrak{m}^t$, but it is also finitely generated as $R$ is Noetherian (that's where we need that part), but $R/\mathfrak{m}$ is an Artinian ring as it has finite-length over itself, thus $\mathfrak{m}/\mathfrak{m}^{t+1}$ has finite length
 
@Eric: Cohomology and compactness would be an obstruction, no?
 
in which case you've got a linear combination of powers of $x-i y$ where $x=\cos(\beta/2),y=\sin(\beta/2)$
 
10:04 PM
@manooooh: Think about what continuity means.
 
using the exact sequence $0 \to \mathfrak{m}/\mathfrak{m}^{t+1} \to R/\mathfrak{m}^{t+1} \to R/\mathfrak{m} \to 0$ and the fact that length is additive wrt to exact sequences, you get that $R/\mathfrak{m}^{t+1}$ has finite-length
@ninjahatori do you follow?
 
which is certainly some polynomial in $x,y$
 
hmm
they dont exist on compact mflds? lemme think about this
 
@TedShifrin yeah yeah, as $\sin(x)$ is continuous for any $x$ we can insert the limit, right?
 
That's what continuity means.
 
10:05 PM
@TedShifrin thank you! <3
 
yes I am getting your point to some extent; @MatheinBoulomenos
 
which parts do you have trouble with?
 
Hrm. The weird thing is that, in the case I'm interested in, what you get is not merely a polynomial but a homogenous polynomial at taht
Which maybe comes down to some special property of my U's
 
oh ok i guess $\partial \bar{\partial}$
 
Hmm, the chat site went down for me for a bit.
 
10:07 PM
Can we do this part just using tor functor and using some filtration result @MatheinBoulomenos
 
I'm using the following facts about length:
- f.g. modules over an Artinian ring have finite length
- If $0 \to M' \to M \to M'' \to 0$ is exact, then $M$ has finite length iff $M'$ and $M''$ have finite-length
 
say what? @Eric
 
@ninjahatori yes, these are terms related to modules
but they are not relevant for the problem
 
I see @MatheinBoulomenos
 
on compact by $\partial \bar{\partial}$-lemma the kahler form is exact so vol = 0 which is impossible
if there were a global kahler potential
 
10:09 PM
what I did was just using standard (elementary!) results on finite length modules. Why do you want to use tor and filtrations?
if it's a question about flatness, then you might consider tor
 
d-exact
 
BTW, @Eric: The lemma is wrong as stated in G/H. I wrote an exercise to that effect.
 
Yes actually I am proving local criteria for flatness for that I need this @MatheinBoulomenos ? Not much familiar with dimension theory though
 
oh wait u dont even need $\partial \bar{\partial}$ my bad
$i\partial\bar{\partial} f = d(i\bar{\partial f})$
 
@ninjahatori that's some pretty advanced commutative algebra
 
10:12 PM
Seeing a short exact sequence and then a few messages down a $\partial \overline{\partial}$ is interesting to say the least
 
Am I the only one having issues with this site?
 
Actually I need to give presentation on this and this portion not taught in class?
 
Ah, I see, good luck! @ninjahatori
but it's unusual that you haven't covered basic results on finite length
 
We have covered it but I don't revised it properly it is covered in last few days
 
I'm fine at the moment
 
10:15 PM
@TedShifrin I was having issues for like two days, but we ended up getting a new internet modem...
 
@MatheinBoulomenos I think I need to give some time on dimension theory
 
@ninjahatori dimension theory was the most difficult chapter in Atiyah-Macdonald for me
 
@Ted anyway ya i just did ur exercise showing that locally we have kahler potentials i just wanted to figure out what precisely were obstructions
to global dudes that is
 
Not sure how to classify this observation, but:
 
10:21 PM
@TedShifrin i did notice and did the exercise i assume u 5 on assignment 6
 
Does anyone know how you can put in tab spaces in order to enter a proof in the chat?
So it doesn't look mashed up?
 
ctrl+K before sending the message
 
The polynomial 1-x^2+y^2 is not homogeneous. However, if we restrict ourselves to x,y such that x^2+y^2=1, then we have 1-x^2+y^2=2y^2 which is homogeneous
 
Ok, thanks
 
@MatheinBoulomenos I know that if module is finite length then tor_1 function is 0 but don't get the point that how tor zero implies sequence is exact?
 
10:23 PM
I guess the formal point there is that 1-x^2+y^2 is equivalent, mod x^2+y^2-1, to a homogeneous polynomial
Is there a standard name for that?
 
@Eric: I've forgotten why it's wrong. ... I wonder if the room will work for me now.
 
@ninjahatori that's from the long exact sequence of Tor
Tor is the derived functor of the tensor product
 
In math mode you can use \quad or something, @CaptainAmerica ... not sure what you mean
 
i dont have my GH on me so i cannot look
 
@Semiclassic: I've never seen it before.
 
10:24 PM
Hrm
 
@TedShifrin I think I have it: 1. $a<b = b-a$ and $c<d = d - c$ 2. $b-a + d-c = b+d - (a+c)$ therefore $a+c < b+d$
ew, it's still mashed up
 
ima think harder about precisely what cohomology restrictions get u existence/nonexistence in non-compact setting
 
@CaptainAmerica: You're still writing stuff that makes no sense.
 
It feels like a commutative algebra thing, but uh
me pretending to know about commutative algebra is not a good idea
 
Can you tell me where I went wrong? Did I leave something out or did I just completely do stuff that's not possible?
 
10:26 PM
@Eric: They said $d$- or $\partial$- or $\bar\partial$-exact. You have a counterexample?
How can you write $a<b=b-a$? @CaptainAmerica
 
@MatheinBoulomenos can you explain the above case ? How it become short exact sequence ? It would have be either left or right exact ?
using long exact sequence
 
@ninjahatori you have the long exact sequence and there's a zero at the right point, so you get a short exact sequence as a part of the long exact sequence
I don't really understand the question
 
I guess I should start by thinking about the following. Suppose I've got a polynomial $f(x,y)=ax^2+by^2+c$. For what a,b,c can I write that as $f(x,y)=H(x,y)+\lambda(x^2+y^2-1)$ where $H(x,y)$ is homogeneous
 
@TedShifrin Ok, that's not what I mean. I mean have $a<b$ such that $b-a$ is in $P$. If I specifically state that, can I use that as a manipulation?
 
I got simple linear algebra question (2-dim) if $\lambda$ is real eigenvalue of some linear isometry, then $\lambda = \pm 1$, how can i show it?
 
10:28 PM
ok that left side 0 is due to tor functor right @MatheinBoulomenos and 0 already in right
 
Right. So $a<b \iff b-a\in P$ is a perfectly fine sentence to write (type).
 
@ninjahatori yeah
 
oh. duh. $ax^2+by^2+c$ is equivalent to $ax^2+by^2-(x^2+y^2)=(a-1)x^2+(b-1)y^2$
 
But the rest of what you did is fine, @CaptainAmerica.
 
I always have the same problem - I suck at math terminology or whatever you call it.
Ok, that's good.
I'm going to retype.
 
10:29 PM
This is super important if you're gonna progress in math. Writing correct and clear sentences is essential.
 
I wonder if I can extend that to an even fourth-order polynomial
 
@TedShifrin Noted ;-;
 
ok lastly how the last argument works before krull dimension @MatheinBoulomenos ?
After that commutative diagram
 
More generally: Suppose $f(x,y)$ is some even polynomial of degree $2n$. Can I always find a polynomial $g(x,y)$ such that $f(x,y)-(x^2+y^2-1)g(x,y)$ is homogeneous?
 
@Mathein: I don't quite like your hint.
LOL
 
10:31 PM
giving good hints is hard :/
 
daym
 
You needed the transformation in there.
@chandx: What's the definition of a linear isometry?
 
How do I make the double-arrow with mathjax?
 
\iff
 
@ninjahatori I can't explain every single step to you
 
Zee
10:33 PM
Hints are usually counterproductive, if you could have came up with it yourself you would get less practice and if you could not come up with it yourself you waste time trying to figure out the hint
 
Most of my hints are very productive.
sticks out tongue
 
it must come from {\mathfrak{m}^t \cap I \otimes M} for all {t}. Thus it belongs to {\mathfrak{m}^t(I \otimes M)} for all {t} only this part? I don't know how to write it ?
 
"You waste your time trying to figure out the hint"
It's entirely possible that you don't necessarily know what avenue you should approach something from, and a hint can, if nothing else, tell you what to look for
 
@TedShifrin linear isometry $F$ is linear transformation and isometry of the plane at the same time, i. e. $\|X-Y\| = \|F(X) - F(Y)\|$ and we're talkin about $X,Y \in \mathbb{R}^2$
 
Ok, @chandx, so what do you get if you put $Y=0$?
 
10:35 PM
I like hints that are of the form "You'll be tempted to do X. Think more carefully."
 
Those are sophisticated hints, Semiclassic.
 
1. $a<b \iff b-a \in P$ 2. $c<d \iff d-c \in P$ 3. $b-a + d-c = b+d - (a+c)$
4. $a+c < b+d$
 
@TedShifrin well i'd just get $\|X\| = \|F(X)\|$
 
hints can be productive when they motivate you to find an alternative solution that ignores the hint
 
@CaptainAmerica: You should not number steps in proofs. Just write sentences. So what you forgot to say is that $ (b+d)-(a+c)=(b-a)+(d-c)\in P$. That's the most important statement.
Right, @chandx. Now suppose $X$ is an eigenvector with eigenvalue $\lambda$. And finish.
 
10:39 PM
@TedShifrin Revising once again...
 
LOL, @CaptainAmerica: Soon you'll learn not to talk to me.
 
@MatheinBoulomenos Got it thanks for help.
 
@ninjahatori glad to help
 
@TedShifrin My fingers are gonna be cramped by the time I finish :/
Not literally
 
The price you pay.
 
10:41 PM
...To live dat math life
 
I have heard that someone who took analysis the year after me claimed to get carpal tunnel as a result
 
Just wait for past 20 yrs old!
 
oh my gosh ;-; rip wrists
 
Might've been tongue in cheek but given the pset sizes of that class, it wouldn't be outside of the realm of possibilities
 
daym, if $X$ is eigenvector, then $F(X)=\lambda X$ so $\|F(X)\| = \| \lambda X \|$ and $\|F(X)\| = | \lambda | \|X\|$, but since $\|F(X)\| = \|X\|$, then $|\lambda | = 1$, thus $\lambda = \pm 1$
daym
 
10:43 PM
Well done, @chandx.
 
Hmm, okay, I can definitely validate it in the case of $n=2$
 
@chandx: If a map preserves lengths, it can't stretch vectors :P
 
today we spent like 2 hours of a supposedly 90 minutes exercise session and only got to maybe half the exercise sheets
 
I actually do know someone who took the discrete math class I graded (and was a friend of mine) who had carpal tunnel. He was the exception to the requirement of of handing in psets in LaTeX, he started off writing them but even that was painful so he'd write it either on a chalkboard or whiteboard and take a picture
 
@TedShifrin lol, right
@TedShifrin thanks, im kinda super new into this and my head is gettin all this stuff together
 
10:45 PM
@Mathein: That's not so unusual.
You did fine, @chandx.
 
But the way it seems to come out is strange to me.
 
@TedShifrin yeah I guess it's my first "real grad-level" class, not some basic stuff like algebraic geometry or local class field theory
 
I think Semiclassic has joined Secret's club of talking just to himself.
 
So, I'm trying to use sentences for this proof...suddenly realizing my grammar/english skills are a little subpar. It's going to read like a high schooler was trying to be fake proper, so be prepared.
 
10:46 PM
where you can just use stuff you know for the exercises and not just what has been covered
 
ha ha @Mathein ... I would take that sentence as sarcasm.
 
Which class is it exactly?
 
Galois cohomology and galois representations
 
And lol for my first pset in AT, there was a problem about which surfaces admit free actions of the dihedral group
A friend of mine did equivariant cohomology for his REU paper and knew Smith theory as a way to nuke the problem
 
That's too hard for me, Demonark.
 
10:48 PM
that sounds pretty cool, but far from easy
 
And asked the professor in office hours, the guy was just like whoa, I meant this as a covering space problem, but... I guess?
 
I think it goes something like this. I start with an even polynomial in x,y and write it as $f(x,y)=f_0(x,y)+f_2(x,y)+\cdots +f_{2n}(x,y)$ where each term is homogeneous of order $2k$
 
Ah, a covering space problem is still turning into a hard group theory question, I think.
@Semiclassic: You don't mean even-degree. You mean even.
 
I think I muttered something which may or may not have been incomplete (haven't quite had any psets returned)
 
10:50 PM
what I think I want to do is subtract off multiples of $x^2+y^2-1$ such that I get rid of the constant terms, then the terms of homogeneous order 2, then terms of homogeneous order 4, etc
 
Not getting back psets within a week is unacceptable.
 
This feels like it has a name tho
back later
 
In the review queue there are like 200 close votes for review
 
Yeah so I said we get a short exact sequence $1\to \pi_1(X) \to \pi_1(X/D_{2p}) \to D_{2p} \to 1$, and used Euler characteristic
 
everything else is at 0 or 2
 
10:51 PM
I am a bad citizen. I rarely take the time to look at those things.
Oh, Demonark, I was afraid it was going to have to be about generators and relations.
 
$\chi(X) = 2p\chi(X/D_{2p}) = 2-2g$, so $p\mid 1-g$
 
That's necessary. WTF is it sufficient?
 
So, this is gonna be the cheesiest explanation ever
But do you know about fidget spinners?
 
Gesundheit.
 
Not sure whether to interpret that as a yes or a no
 
10:53 PM
No.
 
Um, and ... ?
 
These guys. I think they were originally made to help people who have ADHD, and then somehow became a meme
 
Given the inequalities $a<b$ and $c<d$, $a, b, c$ and $d$ are numbers such that $a<b \iff b-a \in P$ and $c<d \iff c-d \in P$. With this, we can create the statement $(b-a)+(d-c) = (b+d) - (a+c) \in P$. Therefore, $a+c < b+d$.
Fidget spinners!
 
So now I was like, basically take an $np$-holed fidget spinner for some $n$ and put a hole in the middle, and then rotate
The genus is $1$ mod $p$ and that should be a free action of the dihedral group
 
10:55 PM
Oh, I thought you said dodecahedral group.
Dihedral doesn't scare me so much.
 
Ah
 
Hi @TedShifrin
 
@CaptainAmerica. You don't need to be so verbose when the words get you nothing. Given $a<b$, we know that $b-a\in P$. Similarly, $c<d\iff d-c\in P$. Since the sum of elements of $P$ is again in $P$, we conclude that ...
hi @Jake
 
I think every $c$ and $d$ satisfy $c<d \iff c-d\in P$, to be pedantic
 
could anybody give me a hand with the first part of this question? m.imgur.com/SdS8g30
 
10:57 PM
Demonark: There are a fair number of such arguments in beginning topology, with drawing the $g$-holed torus with an appropriate symmetry.
That's why I don't like all those meaningless words, Leaky.
 
The function in question is a box function, 0 everywhere besides when x<|a| Where it’s 1
 
Oh, so you should be able to explicitly decide what a formula for $G(x)$ is, @Jake.
 
Is it worth giving it another shot? I think I've learned what I needed to from this excercise.
 
Move on, @CaptainAmerica.
 
Yeah, it was kind of a nice problem
 
10:59 PM
But pay attention to how I wrote it, @CaptainAmerica.
 

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