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6:00 PM
Not arbitrary no
$x^2 >0$
But all positive numbers have a square root
 
That is, you pick $0<x<y$ and density gives you that there exists a rationnal $q$ s.t. $\sqrt x \lt q \lt \sqrt y$
 
Well, we've been educated to convert the complex integral along a path into a real integral for some variable t. So, in this case, the integral would change from $\int_c e^{(-1+i)lnz}dz$ to $\int_0^{2\pi} e^{(-1+i)ln(e^{it})}ie^{it}dt$
 
I'll let you try and do the $x<0<y$ and the $x<y<0$ cases
 
Ok, I think I got it. @Astyx
 
6:03 PM
Nice
 
Well, I wanted to so something with an antiderivative. But your method of explicit calculation will also work.
 
I need to go eat
 
an antiderivative would be cool to have. Do we necessarily know that one exists for this function?
If we do, then we automatically know that this integral is 0.
 
One always exists for any analytic function on a simply connected domain. But that is a sort of big theorem.
No, you don't!
The simply connected domain here is $\Bbb C \setminus \Bbb R_{\geq 0}$.
 
Are you integrating along a path, or a contour?
 
6:05 PM
You get a formula to evaluate the integral, depending on the values at $2\pi - \epsilon$ and $\epsilon$. But the limit as $\epsilon \to 0$ will not be zero. T
The problem is that your function is not analytic on all of $\Bbb C$. Stuff goes bad as you wind around 0.
 
Okay, then do I at least know that the integral is $F(2\pi)-F(0)$?
 
I feel like you're ignoring the stuff I'm saying about $\epsilon$.
 
One thing to note: There's a difference between having a local antiderivative and a global one
 
I'm not, I'm just a slow typer, and trying to make efficient decisions.
Looking up epsilon in Latex might slow me down a little bit. (also, how to format a limit description)
 
\epsilon
 
6:09 PM
Where can I find a result of type: if $g$ is a meromorphic function on a surface of Riemann compact $M$ then $g$ is bijective, open and closed?
 
You know, that makes sense
 
@Mancala That's the same thing as saying $g$ is a homeomorphism, right? (I don't know the result)
 
Alright, so, the integral is equal to $\lim_{\epsilon\rightarrow 0}F(2\pi-\epsilon)-F(\epsilon)$ if $F$ is the local antiderivative?
 
@Rithaniel Got it. Thanks for letting me know. :)
And yes, I was just about to type that out.
Although "local antiderivative" is not what you want to say: it's the antiderivative on the domain of definition, $\Bbb C \setminus \Bbb R_{\geq 0}$.
 
Are you integrating $1/z$ around the origin?
 
6:11 PM
no
$z^i/z$
 
yeah, that's the better way of saying what I did
There's a nice extended discussion of an integral very much like this in Stewart & Tall's complex analysis book, btw
 
Okay, then the antiderivative on the domain $C\setminus \mathbb{R}_{>=0}$. How do we determine what it is?
 
Hello. "Group((1,2))" means group generated by permutation (1,2) right?
 
@AkivaWeinberger yes
 
I mean in GAP
 
6:14 PM
Same as you'd find an antiderivative as usual: find a function which differentiates to what you want
it helps to note what $\ln(e^{it})$ is in this domain, though
I'll note, though, that you can apply the same logic to $z^{-1+i}$ directly if you're careful about it
 
I feel like this might have been too much of a side track. Your original approach works fine, and is very fast.
 
Well, the only issue is that in my initial approach, I'm not entirely sure what the integral should be.
 
How do I show that $z=0$ is not a local maximum of $|p(z)|$ where $p(z)=a_0+a_1z+\cdots+a_nz^n$ if $a_i \neq 0$ for some $i>0$.
We want to find $z$ in some $\epsilon$ neighbourhood such that $|p(z)| > |a_0|$. But how to construct one?
 
Regardless of anything else, the integral won't end up being zero
Easiest way to see that is to note that the modulus of $z^{-1+i}=e^{it(-1+i)}=e^{-i t-t}$ is $e^{-t}$, i.e. the modulus decreases as you wind around the origin
 
Hi everyone
 
6:20 PM
Ah, so it does. Visualizing this stuff hasn't come quickly to me.
 
(Not that the modulus being constant implies that the integral is zero---for instance, $\int_C dz/z\neq 0$ despite $|1/z|$ being constant. But it does suggest that the integral isn't simple enough to vanish.)
 
I see no algebraists around so I'm going to complain that everyone uses $\mathsf{Grp}$ to explain pushouts, while I didn't really feel I have good intuition for them until I thought about pushouts in $\mathsf{Top}$!
 
@user330477 Let's assume $a_1\ne0$ for now. If it were just the first two terms, $a_0+a_1z$, what would the answer be?
To get it for the entire polynomial $a_0+\dotsb+a_nz^n$, you'll need to choose something close enough to the origin that the first two terms overwhelm all the others.
If $a_1=0$, it's similar; you still look at the first two terms, but they're no longer $a_0+a_1z$, they're $a_0+a_kz^k$ where $a_k$ is the first nonzero coefficient after $a_0$.
Oh, I just noticed you said $a_i\ne0$. So you can ignore that last bit.
 
@Rithaniel a good extension of this problem is to do $z^{-1+i b}$ with $b>0$, and examine what happens as $b\to 0^+$
($b<0$ makes sense as well, it's just $b=0$ that's the special case)
 
@AkivaWeinberger I am not sure how we can use some inequality to show that |a_0+a_1z| >= |a_0| for some z epsilon close to 0.
 
6:34 PM
Choose your $z$ wisely. Some geometric intuition may help with this.
Consider the case where $a_0$ and $a_1$ are both positive real. Then any positive $z$ will work, right?
 
@AkivaWeinberger Yes, sure.
 
Take $a_0=i$ and $a_1=1$ as another example. How can you make $i+z$ further away from the origin than $i$?
 
@AkivaWeinberger Just take z to be any real number
epsilon close to 0
 
@AlessandroCodenotti I feel like understanding them in groups helped me at least, and I imagine Van Kampen is the first instance where the idea of a push out is useful, so people probably have that in mind when they introduce the concept
 
I literally never remember which is which
Until I think about pulling back a vector bundle and what that does
so I can draw the diagram
But anyway they never do much for me
 
6:39 PM
I was thinking $z$ any positive pure imaginary number, but that works too
 
I did encounter them dealing with SvK the first time, but they are much clearer for topological spaces imho. Also pushouts of topological spaces give intuition for those of groups as well, at least for me
 
For a more general case, say we don't know anything about $a_0$, but $a_1=1$. So we have $a_0+z$. What can you do now?
 
Hi @Alessandro, DogAteMy, @Mike, Demonark
 
hello
 
6:41 PM
Hi
 
Hey Ted!
 
@AkivaWeinberger Take z epsilon close and in a direction perpendicular to that of a_0 in the complex plane for nonzero a_0, For a_0=0, take anything epsilon close.
 
That works
I don't know why you're going perpendicular to $a_0$ rather than parallel to it, the latter seems like a more efficient way to get away from the origin
Like, take $z=a_0$
But they both work
Now, if it's the most general $a_0+a_1z$, you can pretty much choose $a_1z$ to be whatever you want, and then divide by $a_1$ to get $z$
 
But Pythagoras says that going perpendicular works. Indeed, if you draw the line perpendicular to $a_0$ passing through $a_0$, then moving anywhere "outside" will work, right, @user330477?
 
(So you'd get $z=(\text{something perpendicular to $a_0$})/a_1$)
(or just plain $a_0/a_1$ if you do it my way)
 
6:46 PM
hi chat
 
But the original problem was, we want to find a $z$ that makes $a_0+a_1z+\dotsb+a_nz^n$ greater than $a_0$.
(And we know $a_1\ne0$, which is good 'cause I divided by it)
So we need to multiple our original answer by something really small to ensure that the first two terms overwhelm the rest combined.
 
Right.
$z$ is gonna be very close to $0$.
 
@AkivaWeinberger I see this know. Going parallel gives an easy estimate. Whereas for the perpendicular direction you have to do some work.
 
How goes it, Eric?
 
i am finally officially registered for "complex manifolds and varieties 1"
 
6:50 PM
Yeah, $\left|a_0+a_1\left(\varepsilon\dfrac{a_0}{a_1}\right)\right|\ge|a_0|$ isn't too hard to show algebraically
 
LOL ... or, as you prefer to refer to it, Hodge Theory 3 and 4.
 
and all 3 of my reference writers finally confirmed theyd get the grfp letter in asap
so all in all im good
@TedShifrin indeed
 
Good :)
 
Although, our actual problem now is $|a_0+a_1(\epsilon\frac{a_0}{a_1})+\text{other terms}|\ge|a_0|$.
 
Writing recommendations is one of the most important things university faculty have to do (and also refereeing and evaluations of people up for promotion, etc.).
 
6:53 PM
ya def
 
Hmmm, my arithmetic must be off for this integral. I'm still getting 0.
 
And, unless we choose $\epsilon$ carefully, that might not be true; the other terms might add up to something parallel to $-a_0$ and push us too close to the origin.
 
im really glad how it turned out that they all got to supervise me on personal projects and they alll like me a lot personally
i was so stressed out about building relationships w profs
but it all turned out p great
 
@Mancala Certainly false for most meromorphic functions!
 
Even on compact surfaces?
 
6:54 PM
I guess I shouldn't scroll back looking for things. I was trying to figure out what Rithaniel is talking about.
Sure, DogAteMy. Most of them give branched coverings of $\Bbb P^1$.
 
It's the integral $\int ie^{iln(e^{it})}dt$ @TedShifrin
From $0$ to $2\pi$
 
What does $\ln$ mean?
 
@AkivaWeinberger Don't we have by reverse triangle inequality, that the desired resut id greater than $||a_0+a_1(\epsilon\frac{a_0}{a_1})|-|\text{other terms}||$. As epsilon tends to 0, the term on the right tends to $|a_0|. But this only show that our result is \geq and , which is actually what we want.
 
ah, yes, I keep forgetting that.
 
@EricSilva: Knowing you reasonably well from a distance, my response is, "Of course."
 
6:57 PM
too kind too kind
 
$lim_{\epsilon\rightarrow 0}\int_{\epsilon}^{2\pi-\epsilon} ie^{iLog(e^{it})}dt$ where the branch cut for $Logz$ is $\mathbb{R}\geq0$
 
Gotcha. OK, so what is $\text{Log}(e^{it})$?
 
We want $p(z)>p(0)$, no? @user330477
If we just wanted $p(z)\ge p(0)$ we could just take $z=0$
 
DogAteMy: smacks for writing $>$ with complex numbers.
 
Yes, that's what I meant? This only gives geq and ont greater than or equal to?
 
7:01 PM
@TedShifrin Ah, whoops; I meant the absolute values of those things
 
I take off serious points to make students be careful with such things :)
 
"But this only shows that our result is \geq, which is actually what we want." Did you drop a "not" by accident?
In any case, by reverse triangle inequality we have $|a_0+a_1(\epsilon\frac{a_0}{a_1})+\text{other terms}|\ge|a_0+a_1(\epsilon\frac{a_0}{a_1})|-|\text{other terms}|$, which means that if we can get the latter to be greater than $a_0$, we're good, right?
 
So, it should be the principle branch between $0$ and $2\pi$ for $e^{it}$, correct?
 
and not strictly greater than is what I meant there. Yes, you are right?
 
principAL :) ... Huh? You take the argument between $0$ and $2\pi$. I'm not sure what you mean with your sentence.
 
7:03 PM
And also $|a_0+a_1(\epsilon\frac{a_0}{a_1})|=|a_0+\epsilon a_0|$, which equals $(1+\epsilon)|a_0|$
 
Yes.
 
Yes, principal argument between $0$ and $2\pi$, my bad.
 
So we want $(1+\epsilon)|a_0|-|\text{other terms}|\ge|a_0|$, or $|\text{other terms}|\le\epsilon|a_0|$.
 
So what is this logarithm of $e^{it}$ going to be, @Rithaniel?
 
We win if the other terms are smaller than $\epsilon|a_0|$.
 
7:05 PM
The sum of all the other terms, DogAteMy?
 
$a_2z^2+\dotsb+a_nz^n$.
 
<--- just being pedantic and obnoxious ... for clarity.
 
Where $z=\epsilon\frac{a_0}{a_1}$.
 
(Aside: @TedShifrin I finally figured he's still here; for some reason I just never came across him in the department)
 
Oh, cool, @dalbouvet. Glad I got you to know one more student. :P
 
7:07 PM
:D
 
It's not $t$, but $t$ modulo $2\pi$, correct?
 
@dalbouvet u said u were at boston college?
 
I was about to smack again, DogAteMy.
Rithaniel, no, it is $t$, because we've said $0<t<2\pi$.
@dalbouvet: And do say hi to him for me.
 
Remember that, for $|z|<1$, we have $1>|z|>|z^2|>\dotsb$, by the way
 
@EricSilva yes that's right
@TedShifrin I sure will if I come across him next time
 
7:09 PM
Okey dokey. Thanks :)
 
@dalbouvet have u encountered keerthi
 
So we can say $|a_2z^2+a_3z^3+\dotsb+a_nz^n|<|a_2z^2+a_3z^2+\dotsb+a_nz^2|$ EDIT: Give me a moment
 
Actually, shouldn't it be $it$?
 
@EricSilva yes! he's my advisor!
 
Basically my strategy here is to overestimate the thing that's supposed to be small
 
7:10 PM
well it's not official yet, but unofficially i'm his student
 
I don't think that's right, DogAteMy. Care to revise?
 
oh word! he was my algebra prof
 
LOL, another coincidence, @Eric @Dalbouvet
 
OK, hold on
 
the man has a wicked fashion sense and was genuinely one of the best most consistent teachers i’ve had
 
7:11 PM
So we have the triangle inequality, which says $|a_2z^2+\dotsb+a_nz^n|\le|a_2z^2|+\dotsb+|a_nz^n|$.
 
is "most consistent" flattery? I'm not sure I've ever seen that before.
 
his fashion sense is wearing a different cotton shirt every day

what do you mean by consistent?
 
And the reason I'm doing this is 'cause I'm trying to get at an overestimate that's easier to deal with.
 
his lectures never dipped in quality
 
Make sense so far @user330477? Or did I go too fast
 
7:11 PM
and his psets didn’t either
 
Interesting description ... I would have put in the descriptive adjectives and made "consistent" an adverb. :P
 
grammar is for cops
 
This isn't grammar.
This is making intent understandable.
 
@AkivaWeinberger Made sense, Sir. I am just copying your comment and seeing it in latex.
 
lol
 
7:13 PM
Your grammar was fine.
 
he never gave me problem sets so I can't say anything about that; his lectures were decent but I wouldn't say it's the best ones I have ever had
gotta had kevin buzzard that
 
@user330477 You don't have LaTeX on the chat?
 
hand*
 
Speaking of coincidences @Ted, no wonder my algebraic topology professor likes this very algebraic and abstract approach, he is a student of Tammo Tom Dieck!
 
lol maybe chicago just has shitty profs
 
7:14 PM
Desktop or mobile? If desktop, there's a link called "LaTeX in chat" on the top right that should help
 
he had a rep here for being good
 
(On mobile it's more annoying but doable)
 
Ah, @Alessandro. Still makes me sad for the parts of topology I love.
 
So, $Log(e^{it})=it$ leads to $\int ie^{iLog(e^{it})}dt=\int ie^{-t}dt=-ie^{-t}+C$? (This might be absolutely correct, but I've done this before and somehow still gotten a result of zero. So I'm being careful, now.)
 
@EricSilva: dalbouvet didn't say he wasn't good. :)
 
7:15 PM
i will never call my advisor not good hehe
 
by good i meant better than decent
 
@Rithaniel: You're definitely not getting $0$ !!
 
(at lecturing)
 
challenge: find a commutative monoid and a submonoid that isn't the kernel of any map.
hi @TedShifrin
 
(Also please don't call me "sir", it feels weird)
 
7:15 PM
I always have to remind people that there's a difference between good lecturing and good teaching, too.
LOL, DogAteMy is a young Sir.
 
@LeakyNun Group and any non-normal subgroup?
Oh wait
 
@AkivaWeinberger I am on mobile. But this only gives us that the upper bound is less than |a_2+...a_n|.
 
@AkivaWeinberger :P
 
Indeed, that's why I'm here, being very doubtful about my work @TedShifrin
 
hi Leaky
 
7:16 PM
@LeakyNun Remind me what a monoid is?
 
sir-kiva wein-sir-ger
 
There's no $i$ in the exponential, @Rithaniel!! It's just $-t$.
LOL, Eric.
 
@AkivaWeinberger multiplication and identity
I mean
 
@dalbouvet highly fair
 
> Equivalently, and more efficiently, we may say that a (classical) monoid is the hom-set of a category with a single object, equipped with the structure of its unit element and composition.
 
7:17 PM
$\lim\limits_{\epsilon\to 0^+} e^{-t}\Big|_{\epsilon}^{2\pi-\epsilon}$ @Rithaniel
 
@user330477 I was thinking, $|a_2z^2+\dotsb+a_nz^n|\le |a_2z^2|+\dotsb+|a_nz^n|$, and then we can overestimate all the $|z^k|$ with $|z^2|$, so it's less then $|a_2z^2|+\dotsb+|a_nz^2|$, or $(|a_2|+\dotsb+|a_n|) |z^2|$
 
Nope, DogAteMy.
Now insert parens, please :P
Thanks, Sir. :)
 
Oh, lord. :D
 
ROFL ... It's so much fun picking on DogAteMy.
 
(By the way, in case it wasn't clear, @user330477, "DogAteMy" is Ted's nickname for me.)
 
7:19 PM
No malice intended, DogAteMy.
 
Only good ice
 
Or maybe good lice?
 
There was a non-exponent $i$ in the original integral, so shouldn't it be $lim_{\epsilon\rightarrow 0}-ie^{-t}|_{\epsilon}^{2\pi-\epsilon}$
 
scratches head Hmm
 
Oh sure, @Rithaniel. I was just worrying about the important part.
 
7:21 PM
So where are we? $z=\epsilon\frac{a_0}{a_1}$,
 
Gotcha
 
so we want $(|a_2|+\dotsb+|a_n|)|(\epsilon\frac{a_0}{a_1})^2|\le\epsilon|a_0|$
 
@AkivaWeinberger Thats funny. But how do we show that the result is less than |a_0|epsilon.
 
The main point is, the left side is some constant times epsilon squared.
The right side is some constant times epsilon.
The former goes to zero faster than the latter.
We can do this algebraically:
 
I'm gonna go eat lunch and leave everyone in peace (or, in Demonark's case, in pieces).
 
7:23 PM
$\epsilon^2(|a_2|+\dotsb+|a_n|)|\frac{a_0}{a_1}|^2\le\epsilon|a_0|$
 
@TedShifrin ominous
 
Thanks for all the help, and enjoy your lunch @TedShifrin
 
but bone apple teeth
 
Sure thing, @Rithaniel. :)
Look forward to chatting non-Hodge theory with you, @Eric :)
 
Divide by $\epsilon$, we get $\epsilon(|a_2|+\dotsb+|a_n|)|\frac{a_0}{a_1}|^2\le|a_0|$
Oh, um, wait, we actually wanted $<$ this whole time, not $\le$
 
7:25 PM
indeed me too
hoping to read loooots of GH tmr
 
Dividing by the monster constant on the left, and simplifying, we get
 
@TedShifrin D':
 
@AkivaWeinberger It does not matter here the strict inequlity. Thank You for your patience with helping me solve this problem.
 
$$\epsilon<\frac{|a_1|^2}{(|a_2|+\dotsb+|a_n|)|a_0|}$$
And $z$ is that $\epsilon$ times $a_0/a_1$.
Which I honestly don't want to right out.
But basically, here's what we did
We chose a $z$ so that $a_1z$ pointed in the same direction as $a_0$, to ensure that the first two terms ended up being further away from the origin than $p(0)$.
Then, we needed to ensure that the rest of the terms didn't cancel out the second term's effect, so we needed to choose a $z$ close to the origin to prevent that.
Luckily, the second term was proportional to $z$, and the rest of the terms were at most proportional to $z^2$.
So by choosing a small enough $z$, we could ensure that their combined effect wasn't larger than the effect of the second term $a_1z$.
(Typo earlier: meant "write out" instead of "right out")
 
@AkivaWeinberger Thank you so much for making me understand this problem. i appreciate it.
 
7:30 PM
You're welcome
By the way, if $a_1$ were zero, it would be similar
 
15 mins ago, by Leaky Nun
challenge: find a commutative monoid and a submonoid that isn't the kernel of any map.
 
except we'd need to ensure that $a_kz^k$ pointed in the same direction as $a_0$ (where $a_k$ is the first nonzero coefficient after $a_0$)
@LeakyNun Did you answer my question on what a monoid is?
 
@AkivaWeinberger multiplication and identity
multiplication is associative
 
Ah, sorry, missed that
 
identity is both-sided
 
7:33 PM
So groups without inverses, kinda?
$(\Bbb Z,+)$ with submonoid $(\Bbb N,+)$?
 
nice
 
Hm, that doesn't work, I could just map it to the nonpositive numbers (positive numbers go to zero, negative numbers stay the same)
Pretty sure that's a monoid map
Oh, no it's not
$f(-3)+f(3)=-3+0=-3$ which doesn't equal $f(0)=0$
so that's not a monoid map
I'm standing next to a bowl of oranges and they're all too ripe
(or rather some sort of orange-related fruit, forget the name)
Are monoid morphisms group homomorphisms if the original thing is a group?
I guess we only have to check the inverses
$f(-k)+f(k)$ has to be $f(0)=0$, so $f(-k)=-f(k)$
 
yes
 
Arright, I guess they are
 
so Grp -> Mon is faithfully full
 
7:38 PM
So that's my final answer, integers and nonnegatives under addition.
 
nice
 
Or, rather, any abelian group and any nongroup submonoid
 
now come up with another example :P
 
Conjecture: Given a monoid, any submonoid closed under inversion (on invertible elements) can be a kernel
Yeah, that seems to be true
Choose such a submonoid, and define the equivalence relation $x\sim y$ if there exists an $a$ in the submonoid such that $x+a=y$ or $x=a+y$
Er, that's for commutative
Whatever, that's our case, let's stick with it, I'll generalize later
$x$ is equivalent to $0$ iff either $x=a$ or $x+a=0$ for $a$ in the submonoid
i.e. it's either in the submonoid or the inverse of something in the submonoid
By our condition, that means $x$ is in the submonoid.
Oh, uh
I think my equivalence relation wasn't well-defined
I want $x\sim y$ iff $x+a=y+b$ for some $a,b\in H$
Hm. So maybe my conjecture was wrong after all
Give me a moment
@LeakyNun Got it
Monoid is $\Bbb N$, submonoid is $\Bbb N\setminus\{1\}$
($0\in\Bbb N$ for this)
 
nice
 
7:52 PM
$f(1)+f(2)=f(3)$ by necessity, which evaluates to $f(1)=0$ if $2$ and $3$ are in the kernel
So the real problem is, we can't have something outside the submonoid, plus something inside the submonoid, equalling something in the submonoid
 
is it enough once you include those things?
 
i.e. It needs to be "closed under subtraction" (except that subtraction sometimes has zero or multiple answers)
@LeakyNun It should be
Let's call the submonoid $H$ and the monoid $M$ 'cause why not
Define the equivalence relation on $M$ by $x\sim y$ iff $x+a=y+b$ for some $a,b\in H$
By our condition, for $x\in M$, we have $x\sim0$ iff $x\in H$.
Look at the set of equivalence classes (denoted by $M/{\sim}$).
This is a monoid. (You can check that if $x\sim y$ and $x'\sim y'$ then $x+x'\sim y+y'$, so it's well-defined.)
Oh, also the equivalence relation is transitive and all that jazz, forgot to mention it but you need to check that too
(If $x+a=y+b$ and $y+c=z+d$ then $x+(a+c)=z+(b+d)$)
Then the projection map $M\to M/{\sim}$ has kernel $H$, which means that this condition is, in fact, sufficient.
It's necessary, since if $a,b\in H$, and $x+a=b$, then $f(x)=f(x)+f(a)=f(x+a)=f(b)=0$
so $x$ is in the kernel and thus should be in $H$
TL;DR $H$ can be the kernel of a commutative monoid $M$ iff, for all $x\in M$ and $a,b\in H$, we have that $x+a=b$ implies $x\in H$.
Equivalently, something outside the submonoid plus something inside the submonoid cannot be inside the submonoid.
@LeakyNun What made you think of this?
 
8:34 PM
@LeakyNun I am not sure if @loch told you, but I graduated from spcc too
 
no idea
 
top 10 reunions
 
you graduated from spcc right? i mean, given your profile picture
 
right
 
awesomeee
 
8:55 PM
Hi! I feel like this is not worth a question. So here it goes. How do I write the following in terms of limits? $-\frac{x^2}{2}+o(x^2) \sim - \frac{x^2}{2}$
 
9:30 PM
Hi chat
 
Hi Lucas
 
Bob
10:15 PM
Hi
could somebody here look at my question: math.stackexchange.com/questions/2955619/…
 
10:38 PM
ZFC + I0 + "Some proper class is a model of ZF + 'there exists a reinhardt cardinal'"?
 
11:25 PM
Is it possible to have no local minimum but not absolute minimum over complex valued functions
Is it possible to have no local minimum but an absolute minimum over complex valued functions
 
@user330477 do you mean the modulus having a minimum
regardless of whether or not your function is holomorphic, if the domain is $\mathbb{C}$ the answer is no.
 
11:42 PM
struggling with (Z+) ⊂ N because Natural numbers apparently includes 0 sometimes
In a logic class, would the set of natural numbers include 0?
 
Ideally, in a logic class that wants you to say things about the natural numbers, they'll tell you which convention they're using.
I don't know enough to say which is generally more common.
 
No such thing is mentioned in the text.. :(
Professor must've mentioned it in class at some point. Yay me, never listening :L/
 
Does that symbol you used mean "subset" or "proper subset" for you?
 
proper subset
 
Hmm.
 
11:46 PM
are those swapped in maths as well? lol
 
Sometimes the one without the bar is used for "subset", and then one with the bar crossed out is used for specifically proper subsets.
i.e $\subset$ and $\subsetneq$ if you have MathJax
I digress though. Maybe just mention both cases.
 
oh nice, I just found "N is the set of natural numbers, which includes all integers greater than or equal to 0." in a table somewhere in the book. Guess that should apply throughout?
 
I sure hope it would.
Now that I think about it, quite often the Peano axioms are taken to start from 0, so it might be more common to see the natural numbers include zero in that kind of context.
But, for example, my number theory book I'm using this semester has the naturals start at 1.
 
Hi is $Q_8$ isomorphic to $D_4$?
where $Q_8$ is the Quaternion group
I believe it is but not sure how to justify
$\left. \begin{array} { l } { \mathbb { Z } _ { 8 } } \\ { \mathbb { Z } _ { 4 } \times \mathbb { Z } _ { 2 } } \\ { D _ { 4 } } \end{array} \right.$
$Q_8$
 
@SharathZotis Try looking at the orders of all of the elements in both groups. If you get different lists of numbers, then the groups can't be isomorphic.
 
11:56 PM
looking at these Im trying to see if any groups are isomorphic
I believe that $D_4$ and $Q_8$ are the only non abelian groups
$\mathbb{Z}_8$ is cyclic however $\mathbb { Z } _ { 4 } \times \mathbb { Z } _ { 2 }$ is not
so they cannot be iso morphic
$| e | = 1 , | \rho | = 4 , \left| \rho ^ { 2 } \right| = 2 , \left| \rho ^ { 3 } \right| = 4 , | t \rho | = 2 , \left| t \rho ^ { 2 } \right| = 2 , \left| t \rho ^ { 3 } \right| = 2$
those r the order of elems in $D_4$
 
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