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12:04 AM
Shhhh ...
 
sh is such a weird sound
 
It's one of the main letters in the Cyrillic alphabet.
 
it's a sound cariocas make in their weird portuguese
 
is that a slang word?
 
carioca means someone from rio
 
12:17 AM
yes, I googled and learned
 
if youre from the state but not the city youre fluminense
it's weird
we have a load of demonyms that dont correspond to the places
 
very confuzling
 
i used to live in vitoria when i was a kid in southeast brazil and people from there are called capixaba which is mondo weird
it means like corn hair or something lmao
 
but it's also a region, I see
 
@Alucard I was curious about a question like this recently. Obviously it's not dividable into perfect sections, but I believe there's on the order of 10 acres of arable land per person. Maybe it was per household.
 
12:21 AM
yeah i think it's kind of an old nickname for ES but i think people usually reserve the demonym for people specifically from vitoria these days
idk though i havent been in a loooong time
 
@Fargle hehe, yeah i don't think 1 house for every person is the right solution. some want to live together, in a small village or in a big city for various reasons, so the area per person varies...
but 10 acres would be alot!
 
12:47 AM
Hi chat.
 
Hi Lucas
 
What's meant by "classical topology and geometry" in the context of as a prerequisite for learning proper algebraic geometry?
 
Depends who's saying it and what that person means
 
i feel like it could mean so many things
 
some basic point-set, some algebraic topology, projective geometry would be useful ...
 
12:53 AM
They actually said what they meant (gave examples) but I felt more stuff might be needed than the examples illustrated.
 
what is proper alg geo
 
It's alg geo such that the preimage of a compact set is compact
@Eric
 
smacks Demonark
 
oh isnt emerton ur homie @Daminark
 
12:56 AM
@EricSilva At the moment I'm learning about algebraic curves (Riemann-roch etc). My idea of a proper algebraic geometry is what people reading Hartshorne are learning :\
 
I'd like to think he doesn't hate me, yeah
 
im tutoring a kid in his lin alg class
the one using lin alg done wrong i mentioned to u earlier
 
Nice, how's that going?
 
well Hartshorne chapter 4 is precisely Riemann-roch Riemann-hurwitz
 
hartshorne seems scurry to my analysis brain
 
1:01 AM
Hello chat
 
Hi Holo
 
Any interesting question today?
 
@loch Interesting. I'm guessing chapters 2 and 3 are the hard parts of the book.
 
Basic elementary number theory, but I find it interesting.
Find all $n \in \Bbb Z^+$ such that $n^2 + 3^n$ is a perfect square.
 
That's quite a lengthy answer/discussion you linked to, @Symposium.
 
1:04 AM
Number theory uh? This is one of the 2 subjects I'm worse at
 
@Everyone: feel free to give new, creative answers.
 
Working mod a few integers should help.
 
@TedShifrin lol yeah. Very interesting too!
 
i think hartshorne has this mega cool book on euclidean geo that i never read but sits on my shelf
at least i htink it's hartshorne
 
yeah, axiomatic stuff
 
1:07 AM
@Symposium it is the bulk of technical stuff sure - but learning some things from classical AG goes a long with helping your intuition on these things
 
seems cool
 
@TedShifrin it's not hard to find that the general solution is any $n$ that satisfies $n = \frac{3^{n-s} - 3^s}{2}$ for some non-negative integer $s$.
I think that mod would be more interesting using this result
 
OR factoring $3^n$ as a difference of squares and thinking about prime factorization.
 
@TedShifrin this is actually what my statement means lol
 
1:13 AM
I think mathematics might be the only discipline where you have experts freely sharing their knowledge and advice with everyone on so many platforms. It's blessed!
 
Number theory... I just can't get it...
 
How can you get set theory but not number theory? I once opened Jech's book. I nearly pulled my hair out! xD
 
Well, set theory is just so beautiful
Number theory is so... Weird
I think that the my brain just hates the operator Division
 
How do you compute $MN$ of two modules?
Hi @WillHunting you're a genius
 
No, I am only a banana.
 
1:20 AM
@Symposium what exactly made you pull the hair out? Because there are extremely weird stuff in set theory, not denying that
 
Dude, you took the acid
 
Number theory is applied set theory.
 
Everything is applied set theory
 
In fact, but I wanna keep my argument
 
Even set theory is applied set theory
 
1:29 AM
Yeah, lol. Kinda bizarre.
I find it specially weird that we use "natural numbers" before constructing them
 
@LucasHenrique can you give reasoning for that?(I'm not arguing against that, just asking for your reasoning)
I mean to "Number theory is applied set theory." Part
@Rithaniel you are god damn right
 
In a sense that the formula axioms must be enunciated using like $\forall x_1 \forall x_2 \forall x_3\dots \forall x_n$
 
What do you mean? The axioms are formulated using first order logic
(so set theory is actually applied formal logic)
 
@Holo that was initally a joke but it's not all of lie. The construction of natural numbers is extremely simple in terms of set theory and it's connected to cardinality of infinite sets and that kind of stuff. Obviously everything is set theory, but - as I've told you initially - it's just a joke. xD
@Holo yes. But the "notion" goes before the construction.
 
@LucasHenrique it should be ordinals, not cardinals here* ;-)
 
1:35 AM
@Holo all the stuff about cardinal arithmetic etc looked like torture, although all the things axioms of choice is equivalent to etc was cool to see.
 
@LucasHenrique well, without notation we can communicate
 
Not long ago I was reading a paper about symbolic/mathematical logic and it's kinda weird that we have "set theory 1, natural numbers 1$ and then we construct everything.
@Holo ohh yes, I was distracted. Thank you
 
@Symposium well, before cardinals arithmetic there are a lot of things you should study, jumping right into this is no good
 
@Holo how would we state any proposition that keeps for any number of variables?
 
@LucasHenrique well, my respond is only half a joke: define everything
 
1:37 AM
Axiom schemas.
@Holo canonical mathematics. Standard set theory and any of the areas related to it.
 
So why is it weird we build all of this by first defining what is a set?
 
@Holo I thought I was sort of familiar with the chapters that preceded it, but the set theory you learn in chapter 0 of analysis texts is not the same, I learned xD
 
Also @Symposium , cardinals arithmetic is really easy the moment you work with it a little, a lot easier than normal arithmetic
 
@Holo how would we?
It's a primitive notion.
 
Well, the axiom defining this to us
@Symposium good job, now you know that 2 different subjects teaching 2 deferent things
 
1:41 AM
Also: the "set theory 1, natural numbers 1" thing is not really about defining sets and natural numbers. It's about estabilishing that expressions like $\forall x_1 \dots \forall x_n$ are comprehensible.
 
Oh, I see, that the weird stuff is the schemas?
 
@Holo Exactly: and we'll rely on this notion. Take e.g. axiom of specification.
@Holo Yes.
 
I see, so for that I would suggest to study logic 1 before set theory 1
 
@Holo I've never studied those.
 
Or at the same time
 
1:44 AM
TBH I'm really excited to go to college.
My entrance exams are next month so... I'm really anxious.
@Holo Yeah.
 
@LucasHenrique well, the cardinal arithmetic is so; if a,b are finite cardinals then a+b,a•b is just like natural numbers. If one is infinite and the other non zero then a+b=a•b=max(a,b) and lastly a+0=a, a•0=0
 
@Holo lol. I'd say I'd probably enjoy learning set theory now. I've learned more mathematics and took couple of modules in logic.
 
@LucasHenrique good luck! For me the semester starts tomorrow :)
 
@Holo and what exactly is a cardinal?
 
What's applied category theory then?
 
1:48 AM
An equivalence class of all the sets of same cardinality?
 
Ehh, for that we need to go through half of set theory 1
 
@Holo Are you in uni already?
 
@LucasHenrique without assuming AC yes
@LucasHenrique yep
 
I assumed your AC response was about uni
4
 
@MikeMiller LOL
 
1:49 AM
LOL
 
@Holo That's so cool! How much time since you've started it?
 
Anyways, without AC |A| is the proper class of all sets with bijective to A. With AC |A| is the smallest ordinal with bijective to A
@LucasHenrique this will be my second semester
@LucasHenrique if you pass, do you know already what courses you can take in semester 1?
 
@Holo damn. NBG set theory?
@Holo not really. I'm really lost at how uni works.
 
@LucasHenrique not really as you don't need to know how proper class works, what is important is that it is well defined
@LucasHenrique so if you can take set theory, this semester I'm doing logic so I can't recommend on it yet
@Symposium no clue :X
 
One could rephrase that by, instead of defining the cardinality of a set, defining 'the cardinalities of A and B are the same' - this notion is just 'there is a bijection between A and B'.
That is what a mathematician usually means when they say 'the cardinalities are the same', as opposed to anything more esoteric.
 
2:01 AM
@MikeMiller this is the usual way it is taught. We are defining |a|=|b| first. But we still need to know what the definition is, because sometimes we will prove things for sets and not proper classes and then we can't prove things for all sets of the same cardinality
The definition of cardinals without AC is more of something we need to go back to check ✓ on rather than something we need to focus and use
Oops, I killed everyone
 
You're gonna have to pay for my hair-transplant treatment xD
 
Nah, I'm broke, you'll have to deal with this by yourself, of course I can make it worse for free
 
@Holo Yeah, I understand. But I thought the reframing might be better for someone new.
 
Oh, I 100% agree, but Lucas asked for the definition
 
Aha
 
2:17 AM
I'm trying to calculate the mean of a truncated normal distribution but get stuck here. Any tips?
 
Here it is! The second subject I'm the worst at
 
The correct answer should be:
 
Sorry, I can't help you here
 
 
2 hours later…
4:04 AM
Hi, can someone help to clarify whether x,y in all the following definitions have to be distinct elements?
These definitions belong to relations of a set by the way
 
Pig
doesn't haev to be
 
4:21 AM
@PrashinJeevaganth in general, when you have $\forall x,y,...$ unless it is specifically written you can assume that it includes the case of $x=y$
 
Alright, thanks
 
5:17 AM
hi guys, I have a polynomial s^2 + 18s + 72+K and its root locus shown as follows:
http://i.stack.imgur.com/6U4LG.png

beta = acos(0.4449)
Is it possible to find the intercept point P?
 
5:32 AM
Is anyone here?
 
So what is the minimum prime number that is the sum of exactly two odd prime numbers?
 
6:24 AM
What do you think? @Adam
 
It seems related to the question on the main site: Prime numbers that are sums of Prime numbers themselves. (Which already has two close votes and two downvotes.)
BTW the way you wrote it there seems like an unusual notation: $p_i+p_j \in \mathbb P \operatorname{iff} i=1 \lor j=1$. (And you did not say what you denote by $p_i$.)
 
6:57 AM
does Z factors through Z localize at p
 
@Ashcatcham Usually maps factor through things, not groups.
 
7:20 AM
things what it means?
rings I guess
you want to say
@TobiasKildetoft
 
hi @TobiasKildetoft
 
I am computing the witt group of rational field. I come up with th map delta pi residue homomorphisam. So we get map W(Z_(p)) -> W(Q) -> W(Z/pZ) the composition of this map is 0. But then how to get W(Z) -> W(Q) -> W(Z/pZ) is 0 for this to be true W(Z)-> W(Z_(p)) -> W(Q) -> W(Z/pZ) we have find sequence like this but why W(Z) factors through W(Z_(p)) at localization of Z at p?
So my concern is this?
 
Is this the same as ninja h
 
@MikeMiller not as annoying
 
I see
I got spooked by the Witt rings
 
7:33 AM
Anyone know about this why it factors through localization?
 
8:03 AM
Hello!!!

Does it hold that $a^n(-1)^{n^2}$ converges iff $a^n$ converges?
Hey @LeakyNun
Do you maybe have an idea?
 
8:53 AM
Morning all
 
 
1 hour later…
10:05 AM
Consider a group $G$ which is the semidirect product $\mathbb{Z}_3 \ltimes (\mathbb{Z}_7 \times \mathbb{Z}_7)$ (internal semidirect product). Let $\phi:\mathbb{Z}_3->Aut(\mathbb{Z}_7 \times \mathbb{Z}_7)$. There will be $\phi_0 ,\phi_1 ,\phi_2$ corresponding to $\bar{0},\bar{1},\bar{2}$ of $\mathbb{Z}_3$. Then does that mean there will be 3 distinct non isomorphic Semi direct products, one if we choose phi_0, another if we choose phi_1 and another if we choose phi_2?
 
10:21 AM
@Evinda let $a=1$, then $a^n$ converges, but $(-1)^{(n^2)}$ not, so no
 
My tonight's agenda:
 
@BuddhiniAngelika No
Each choice of three such automorphisms (forming a subgroup of order $3$) leads to a semidirect product
determining which of these are isomorphic is more tricky
 
0. Jot down some notes of today in a report
1. Check a couple of chemistry calculations
2. Start putting the transition state template file together
3. Check out the 3D volume function when it is done
4. Start doing some investigation for simple d-finite and amorphous sets. Aim is to get some general but elementary theorems proofs so it will be used as tools to further manipulate and dissect these sets
If time: Perhaps try some forcing stuff
 
10:45 AM
Is Z localize at p is subset of Z or other way around?
 
@Ninjahatori what do you think
 
other way is true I guess z is subset of zp
 
> Is Z localize at p is subset of Z or other way around?
> does Z factors through Z localize at p
deja fu?
$Z(p) \subset Z \lor Z(p) \supset Z$
$Z|Z(p)$
hmm.......
Does not know enough ring theory to determine whether "Z subset" is the same as "Z factors through"
 
@Ninja why do you think that?
 
take a in z it and b=1 in zp
 
10:58 AM
r u on a fone
 
is it right @ÍgjøgnumMeg
p does not divide 1
 
Imagine a prime number dividing 1
That would be somewhat bad
 
@Ninja right; note that $S := \Bbb Z \setminus p\Bbb Z$ contains no zero divisors $\Bbb Z \hookrightarrow S^{-1}\Bbb Z$ is injective
(so you can identify $\Bbb Z$ with its image in $S^{-1}\Bbb Z$)
 
 
2 hours later…
12:39 PM
@Symposium I never read it seriously. I plan to.
 
1:23 PM
Can anyone give me a hint how to solve this recurrence relation?
 
1:56 PM
@PrashinJeevaganth it's a linear single-variable recurrence relation and I think we already discussed it before
 
2:06 PM
@LeakyNun With me? I haven't asked a recurrence relation yet. But anyway I think I found a clue ...
 
@PrashinJeevaganth you're right: it wasn't you
 
2:39 PM
So, I'm looking for some reading material for number theory/category theory for next semester. Are there any books worth recommending?
 
@Rithaniel what kind of number theory?
 
introductory?
 
@Rithaniel I like Jones and Jones Elementary Number Theory
 
(Though, something which delves into more advanced topics would also be interesting. I just don't know what those more advanced topics would be)
 
@Rithaniel that book has 7 or 8 chapters on the most common stuff and then a few chapters on applications to interesting questions
 
2:56 PM
Alright, I'll see about acquiring that book
 
Wow, there are books that specialise in Number Theory?
 
There are books on everything
 
that's just ... next level
 
3:10 PM
wat
WoW, ThErE aRe BoOkS ThAt SpEcIaLiSe In NuMbEr ThEoRy?
 
Which of these CANNOT be the class equations for a group of the appropriate order?
i)10 = 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2
ii)15 = 1 + 3 + 5 + 6
iii)4 = 1 + 1 + 2
iv)6 = 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1
v)6 = 1 + 2 + 3 I think for problem ii) we can't find such class equation, as $6$ can't divide $15$, so a group of order $15$ can't produce a orbit with cardinality $6$. Rest problems I think can be class equations. Can anyone check it?
 
@KenOno i) is problematic because there's no 1
iii) is problematic because any group of order 4 is abelian
iv) is satisfied by $C_6$ and v) by $S_3$
 
@LeakyNun Yeah I have got same examples for iv) and v)
 
@LeakyNun It depends on whether you group together the size one conjugacy classes ior not in your class equation
 
@LeakyNun Oops! forgot that
 
3:13 PM
@TobiasKildetoft look at iv)
 
@LeakyNun Well, that might just make that one impossible
 
@LeakyNun Why you need 1?
 
@KenOno because the neutral element (i.e. identity) has size 1 conjugacy class
@TobiasKildetoft but valid point, I didn't think of that.
 
If you write up the actual class equation, you will always group the $1$s since those actually form a subgroup, and grouping them is the most useful. But that still requires that you keep that group separate from any conjugacy class of that size
So sure, for this sort of problem probably there should be $1$s
 
@LeakyNun But, the group may act on a set(which don't have identity)
 
3:17 PM
@KenOno The class equation is specifically for the group acting on itself by conjugation
ii) is impossible because any group of order $15$ is abelian
 
@TobiasKildetoft Also, there is a 6 , and as order of orbit have to divide order of group, it's impossible
 
@TobiasKildetoft is there any use of the {1 ... p-1} expansion for Z_p when there is Teichmuller expansion?
oh and thanks for the lecture yesterday
so irreducible representations of $GL_2$ are all $L(n) \otimes \det^m$ right
 
Let $G$ be an abelian group acting transitively on a set $S$. Consider an element $s_0\in S$, if the $\text{stab}(s_0)=H$ then, can we say $\text{stab}(s)=H$ for any $s\in S$?
 
are they all distinct?
and how does this connect to the other side of the Langlands correspondence?
@KenOno no.
 
3:23 PM
I am not getting any idea how to proceed
 
if $s = gs_0$ then $\operatorname{stab}(s) = \operatorname{stab}(gs_0) = g\operatorname{stab}(s_0)g^{-1} = gHg^{-1}$
 
@LeakyNun Where we using that the group is abelian?
 
????????
 
It is told that G is abelian. It seems you are not using that fact
 
oh
if $G$ is abelian then $gHg^{-1} = H$ indeed
so the answer becomes yes
 
3:32 PM
$\text{stab}(gs_0)=g~\text{stab}(s_0)g^{−1}$ - can u explain this step?
@LeakyNun I am confused little bit, do you mean, $O_{s_0}=S$ , so, for any $s\in S$ we have $g$ such that $s=g~s_0$ ?
 
$\text{stab}(gs_0)=g~\text{stab}(s_0)g^{−1}$ - use set extensionality
 
This is the first time I've seen a user with an active professional mathematician's name (who is not that person)
 
and the answer to the second question is yes
@MikeMiller what if he is that person
plot twist
 
@LeakyNun Thanks
 
:gasps:
 
3:59 PM
I suspect the real one has a stronger grasp on group actions
Nothing wrong with learning, of courss
 
@LeakyNun Yes, those are all distinct, but I have no idea about Langlands.
 
ok
 
(that is, they are distinct for $GL_2$ over the algebraically closed field)
Over a finite field some of them become identical, and some of them stop being irreducible
And for the Frobenius kernel, they remain irreducible, but many of them become identical
 
those are certainly all words
 
The Frobenius kernel is just the kernel of that homomorphism which raised all entries of the matrix to the $p$'th power
We just need to consider this as a scheme to get an interesting kernel
 
4:12 PM
@TobiasKildetoft I'm being asked to prove that exp(x+y) = exp(x) exp(y) for $x, y \in p\Bbb Z_p$ lol
I don't really feel like doing it
can I just write "it works because it works for $\Bbb Z[[X]]$ because it works for $\Bbb C[[X]]$ because it works for $\Bbb C$
 
user280247
4:49 PM
If we have a point defined with r and \theta, and then we translate one axis and get r' and \theta'
 
user280247
Is it possible to find simple equations for r' in terms of r and theta?
 
user280247
Any book or website?
 
@LeakyNun Do you happen to know about full-adders while learning logic? I need to implement some kind of divider architecture with only a 4bit adder and I'm kinda stuck trying to change all my Boolean algebra into XOR
 
yes
 
5:04 PM
@LeakyNun I have the following relations

E=A.B.C.D
F=A $\oplus$ (B.C.D)
G=B $\oplus$ (C.D)
H=C $\oplus$ (D)

Does this have anything to do with the full adder?E=
 
5:47 PM
@MikeMiller lol
 
howdy mr @Balarka
 
Hi @Ted!
 
Hi @Balarka @Ted
 
hi @Mathein
 
Hi @Mathein
 
5:54 PM
@Balarka: I guess there are people studying complex manifolds and Riemann surfaces who actually don't know what a fundamental class is :(
 
DogAteMy!
no more falling off cliffs?
 
There it is
 
@TedShifrin Yeesh
 
@TedShifrin Nah, I've been safe from that recently
 
5:55 PM
Good to hear, DogAteMy.
 
@PrashinJeevaganth Is . and?
 
My friend who graduated from Yale with whom you corresponded is now in his first semester at Berkeley ... apparently surviving :)
 
My study habits are oscillating between "too much measure theory" and "too much algebra"
 
@Ted Given a homotopy of homogeneous polynomials $f_t$, you have corresponding algebraic varieties $f_t = 0$, each of which has a fundamental class. Is there a fundamental class for the whole mess, aka points $(t,x)$ with $f_t(x)=0$, so that $f_0=0$ and $f_1=0$ are homologous?
 
5:58 PM
you mean like cobordant?
 
Is $F(t, x) = f_t(x)$ polynomial in $t$?
 
No, $t$ is a real parameter.
In $X\times [0,1]$, doesn't the equation $F(x,t) = f_t(x)=0$ define your (real) variety?
 
That's why I asked if it's polynomial in $t$.
 
Mike doesn't need this algebraic.
I don't think.
 
Then it gives a real algebraic variety, which you can stratify, hence should give a homology between $f_1 = 0$ and $f_0 = 0$.
'Cuz you can triangulate stratified spaces
 
6:01 PM
But if all he wants is a topological cobordism, do we care?
BBIAB
 
@BalarkaSen the latter is impossible
 
right!
 
If $F$ is bad in parameter $t$ I have no idea what $F = 0$ looks like
Might be a mess
 
Hmm ... So use transversality extension to wiggle the homotopy on the inside.
 
@MatheinBoulomenos I kind of feel you
Algebra is cool actually
 
6:12 PM
In moderation, yes.
 
6:25 PM
@AkivaWeinberger yes
 
Hey everyone!
 
Hi Demonark
 
hlo chat
 
hi @Daminark @EricSilva
 
Howdy @Eric
 
6:33 PM
@Daminark I have a new blogpost where I try to motivate characters a bit and give a proof that for a finite group $G$ and a field of characteristic $0$, finite-dimensional representations of $G$ are uniquely determined by their characters
 
how goes life ppl
 
pretty well, thanks. and for you? @Eric
 
eh can’t complain
 
@Mathein oh nice, I'll check that out at some point soon! For now, I should probably work on some number theory though
@Eric it goes aight
 
rather i can’t complain more than i usually do lol
 
6:35 PM
ponders whether complaints are bounded above
 
they are cause we all die
 
Mortality solves math, yet again.
 
Alright so, if we have some order $\mathcal{O}\subset K$ (where $K$ is a number field), we define $\mathscr{D}^{-1}_{\mathcal{O}} = \{a\in K \mid tr_{K/\mathbb{Q}}(a\mathcal{O}) \subset \mathbb{Z}\}$
 
@BalarkaSen f are complex polynomials, varying continuously in a real parameter t. I guess I don't see the harm in assuming it's also real algebraic in t, but I don't think it's necessary.
Someone asked a nice question on main a while ago, how to show that eg an elliptic curve in P^2 is degree 3, in the sense of homology. I suggested taking a homotopy to a product of linear factors, where you get a union of lines, where this is clear.
But I would need this fundamental class argument.
 
So $tr:K\times K\to \mathbb{Q}$ identifies $K$ and $Hom_{\mathbb{Q}}(K,\mathbb{Q}) = K^{\times}$, by mapping $x\mapsto tr(x,-)$.
 
6:54 PM
Hi everyone
 
And this should identify the inverse different with the dual module of $\mathcal{O}$. So now it turns out to be the case that if $\mathcal{O}_1 \subset \mathcal{O}_2$, then $\mathscr{D}^{-1}_{\mathcal{O}_2} \subset \mathscr{D}^{-1}_{\mathcal{O}_1}$. I guess because it's easier to map a smaller ring into $\mathbb{Z}$.
Now it seems the key bit is that if $\mathcal{O}_1 \subset \mathcal{O}_2$, and the latter is the ring of integers, then $\mathcal{O}_2 \subset \mathscr{D}^{-1}_{\mathcal{O}_2} \subset \mathscr{D}^{-1}_{\mathcal{O}_1}$
 
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