« first day (2554 days earlier)      last day (2766 days later) » 

03:00
I seem to recall GRRM said the unburnt thing was a one time deal, and well see what HBO did with that
I do find it an interesting question how a modern army would fare against a magical one, though of course it's impossible to define that.
@Semiclassical I'm trying to find a function that when graphed looks like armor.
I cannot
but the joke still remains
I invoke the shield of f(x,y) = x^2 + y^2
harry potter spinoff where the muggle world discovers the wizarding world, conflict ensues
i think it'd be decent
I mean in most worlds where magic exists swords and arrows are viable.
I have plot armor.
03:02
Sure, but rifles generally aren't.
if magic exists basically anything could be viable
magic rifles would work
There's a relevant worldbuilding answer to this
Well I mean regular non-magical medieval weapons are usually useful in most fantasy settings.
They aren't useful against a F-18
Unless you go into Final Fantasy territory. There tends to be pretty high development of both tech and magic in those settings.
@PVAL-inactive Yeah, and that's what I mean.
and magitek frequently
03:04
How advanced of a fantasy army would you need to stand up against a modern army?
I got a feeling an F-18 with a tactical nuke or seven would make short work of any ASOIAF army.
4
A: Handling magical rune script copyright

TyphonNow, let me explain that I am a programmer and I know how code works and is compiled and so your answer ultimately derives from the following assumptions about magic: I have a setting where there is an online shop that sells magic script, which sent via email. The magic in this world is activ...

@PVAL definitely
Can't really disagree there.
but those are basically regular medieval armies
03:05
About the only way you get to that standard is if you transfer from fantasy to cosmic horror.
I don't know many books where the dragons go mach 3
magic is a rarity in ASOIAF to begin with
Pushing it another way, how much technology would one need to go up against an army with dragons?
Jets strike me as enough, but not rifles.
whats the stopping power of their scales?
@Semi is the army normal
03:07
Hrm, good question.
That's where it gets tricky, don't it.
I'm certain if they were like normal lizards, rifles would do just fine.
at least modern rifles.
their wings are probably a good target to aim for
Depends on how bad they spook cavalry.
@PVAL-inactive It's going to be army-grade bullet proof armor. I know because simple ceramic scale armor is used by the military. Saw it on tv once in a documentary a while back.
they're membranous and weak probably
03:08
and dragon scales are going to be harder than ceramic
otherwise they'll shatter upon landing
I have two parakeets
you'd be surprised the thump one makes when landing after a short hop of the table.
I'd think you'd be looking at like somewhere in the imperial ages (e.g. muskets) level.
(and that's normal)
now imagine a dragon hitting the ground hard
I'd imagine they'd do pretty well before more heavily armored cavalry became obsolete.
if its scales weren't super hard they'd shatter
With regard to a medieval army vs. modern infantry, this is a decent anime depiction of how it'd go: youtube.com/watch?v=nSsK6lwr3tc
03:10
@EricSilva actually that is the perfect target. Most bird lungs have portions in their wings. That's why broken wings are so serious. They can literally suffocate.
Think dragons have more batlike wings.
which are generally a thin layer of skin.
one thing is that modern armies dont march onto a battlefield to meet their enemies
it's just not how they engage
I mean they sort of do.
not the way it happened before the first world war
@EricSilva Yeah, and you definitely see that in that clip.
03:12
Indeed
when either enemy can essentially blow you into oblivion stealth is key
Right. But stealth is a lot harder when your enemy has night vision goggles
indeed
Or an sr-71 flying 70k feet up.
but then you sneak in
without being seen period
or hide in broad daylight
i think with modern tech it's just obscenely unfair
03:18
You'd need some pretty serious magic to stand up to even the infantry side of things.
maybe a better question..
How much money would it take to destroy a 10k medieval army?
with modern technology.
Hmm. To translate that into other terms, how small of a modern fighting force would you actually need?
without serious air support you're done, a modern army could flank you from above, and helicopters are way easier to acquire than dragons
oh that's actually a really good question
The closest RL example I can think of is the Zulu versus the British.
Well I'd imagine a few replanings of a single b-1 would do it easily.
and while thats a small force it isn't exactly cheap.
03:21
@EricSilva what if dragons breed like rats?
Right. I think you'd need to get down to infantry alone in order to minimize costs.
or worse
magic wizards can just grow them 50 a pop every day
Thing is, a semiautomatic rifle by itself is a pretty big force multiplier.
a zulu-type force could put up a more serious fight in better terrain
Yeah, terrain's a big thing.
It also matters how seriously you take your enemy.
As a specific point of reference, in the battle of Rorke's Drift in the Anglo-Zulu War "just over 150 British and colonial troops successfully defended the garrison against an intense assault by 3,000 to 4,000 Zulu warriors."
03:24
I'm sure more advanced tech than military is useful when your enemy has auto and material rifles and rockets, since that's essentially what modern war is.
I'd imagine drones do pretty well at being cost efficient.
on the other hand, in the battle of Isandlwana, you had about 20000 Zulu versus about 1800 British soldiers.
And the British lost that battle.
So at that level of tech it's not just a matter of numbers.
I think in WWI the strat of charging people with sharp things ended up becoming obsolete.
I bet like a WWI version of that fight would have gone the other way.
To put it more brutally: It was already obsolete, they just hadn't realized it yet.
the tech we have now makes what the british used basically look like sticks and stones
The Civil War was in some sense a precursor to a lot of that.
03:27
What if dragons are actually Godzilla sized?
what then?
heck
Then you need jets :P
wouldn't dragons be immune to fire and missiles by definition?
Eh, fire maybe. But missiles aren't just hot.
They're also concussive.
I don't know how anything can be immune to heat.
03:29
But I'm more interested in the more mundane: How small of modern infantry force would one need to go up against a medieval army?
At some point the bonds are gonna start breaking.
@PVAL-inactive I also don't know how any animal can possibly breath fire :)
So one has to allow some level of "a wizard did it"
Maybe the animal drinks a lot of Laphroaig.
@Semiclassical actually that's close-minded.
I think an honest medieval army would probably be routed pretty quickly by a tiny force with modern weapons, even if they could win by throwing numbers at it
My point is that, if we're going to talk about dragons at all, then we have to allow some degree of "it doesn't have to make logical sense."
which I kid you not
I think like 800 v 20k
farts fire
Scale matters.
03:31
would be close.
scales matter
Depending on what the military equipped themselves with.
@Semiclassical if a beetle can fart fire, a lizard can breathe fire.
I mean an infranty force would probably all want rather heavy machine guns instead of rifles.
against a force like that.
if there are dragons are they GOT style dragons or LOTR elder days kind of dragons
03:32
Just because a beetle can do it doesn't make it logically possible for a large animal to do it. I mean, just because an ant can lift crazy multiples of its body mass doesn't mean that a larger animal can do so.
fuck the dragons.
Hence why I say that scaling matters.
I think if a modern military force went up against something like Ancalagon the black they'd probably get spooked
@Semiclassical We don't have giant ants though.
We also don't have fire-breathing lizards.
And my point, again, is that if we're insisting on real life comparisons we're not going to get anywhere because dragons are not plausible in real life.
One has to allow some bending of the rules of physics to make this work.
03:34
@Semiclassical or maybe just have a lizard that spits acid like in the Jurassic Park movies.
@Typhon Yeah, that's not nearly as threatening.
Ok so how many ants would we need to take out the medieval army?
what if all the ants in the world were in one place
I wouldn't want to go up against army ants.
@Semiclassical It could be highly combustible acid that only becomes volatile when mixed?
03:35
Eh, you'd still get a fairly limited range of actual exposure.
true
More on the level of a guy with a flamethrower than a helicopter.
nonono
I meant a flying lizard spitting acid
Anyways, if one is willing to allow enough bending that fire-breathing dragons are possible, I think it's plausible to grant them some level of invulnerability against fire.
There's plenty of acids that can kill with like a square of inch of exposure anywhere.
03:35
indeed
if we accept that lizards that fly exists
and lizards spitting acid exist
then the natural conclusion is a flying lizard spitting highly corrosive acid.
an acid dragon, then.
*combustible
@Semiclassical precisely. And if the acid happens to be able to catch fire than on a modern battlefield that is like napalm.
Comes down to how big the dragon is, i suppose.
What about dragons that spit fission bombs?
@PVAL-inactive that's biologically impossible.
03:37
The smaller the dragon, the smaller the radius of exposure.
heck
And dragons aren't? :P
that violates the laws of nature
@Semiclassical I would argue that such a lifeform can exist. Whether it does is a different question.
I think of biologically like programs.
sure, this variation wasn't made
What if there exists an omnipotent being?
doesn't mean it isn't possible to exist
@PVAL-inactive irrelevant
03:39
and he makes dragons that spit fission bombs.
theology stackexchange
Eh, that programming analogy cuts both ways. A computer in the real world doesn't have infinite memory or infinite time. So not all programs which are logically possible can actually be executed in a meaningful way.
@PVAL-inactive then the omnipotent being chose to rewrite the laws of nature.
he did it without rewriting the laws of nature.
He's omnipotent after all.
"A wizard did it"
03:40
@Semiclassical true, but if cells are turing machines (my professor once made the analogy when talking about the practicality of encryption beyond just security) then it's just a question of what is within the theoretical bounds of their language (DNA).
@PVAL-inactive the fission has to come from somewhere.
Not really. Life is not just DNA, it's also the implementation of it.
or from nowhere.
It comes from the bombs.
where did the bombs come from?
the lizard.
03:41
where did the lizard come from?
God, duh.
the omnipotent being.
hence, God would have to voilate the conservation of energy law.
or rewrite it for a brief moment
God doesn't have to do anything.
otherwise
03:42
I think God could work it out without doing that
facepalm
it can just move stuff around
I gather the point is that if God is truly omnipotent then any kind of limitations within 'laws' are themselves meaningless.
either He would make fission bombs poof into existence or He takes the material from somewhere else. However, both cause a change in entropy and energy, right @Semiclassical?
maybe the bomb spitting lizard was the entire purpose of the universe from the beginning
03:43
So long as we insist that an act of such a being would be an act within the bounds of natural laws.
sounds plausible.
@Semiclassical Of course. I was making the point that a violation of the physical laws would be apparent somewhere.
and everything was building to that moment
@EricSilva so the lizard just formed from the universe?
ok I can roll with that
no God did...
03:44
"It's not against natural law if God does it." :P
but then God can't do anything against natural law.
but how does the lizard not just explode from fission being in its gut?
@Semiclassical I was referring to our current model of physics (which purposefully does not include God as we wish to examine the status-quo He created).
Idk how come all the fission bombs don'
(and also so as to not upset atheists)
The problem with an omnipotent being in this example is that natural laws would themselves be expressions of Their omnipotence.
03:45
t just explode spontaneously.
@PVAL it seems more that, in the face of God, natural law is immaterial to begin with
Natural laws still exist in the sense that they are what happens when God doesn't just reach down and twirl things around with His finger.
Like I said
"status quo"
"business as usual"
or I guess to phrase it differently, natural laws don't exist from the perspective of God, only from our puny perspective
well... yeah
I was referring to the fact that the fission dragon would violate the laws from our perspective...
plus
a fission dragon would literally crack the Earth
wait...
I think my point is that even a regular dragon would probably end up violating those laws, though not in as obvious of ways.
03:49
what about a komodo dragon?
What laws of physics does that violare?
it doesn't create fission
It also doesn't fly.
It does if you shoot it out of a cannon.
And I don't think they breathe fire either.
...okay now you're just trolling us :P
03:50
lol
you know what another name for trollbait is? A worm.
the wings with the forelegs thing that western style dragons are often depicted with doesnt make a lot of sense to me
@EricSilva why?
Back to my question from earlier, I do think that a force of 100 modern infantry soldiers would be enough to beat back even a large medieval force.
It seems like wasted limbs
03:52
(not a magical one, just a mundane one)
is large 20k?
I was thinking 10k.
I like going with the zulu battle above.
and transplant a modern force into that situation
so we have a fixed situation.
One thing a modern army has that I don't think the British would have had: mortars.
well doesn't mortars count as artillery?
03:54
Sure. But compare how mobile the two are.
here's a lizard that can create fission
does it count?
I was thinking infantry meant dudes with rifles or like saws or whatever guns.
meh
eh. a modern infantry unit would definitely have mortars.
if the modern world went to war with let's say qriaergbqr-amani
and all they had was swords
and they lived on a continent the size of asia
and we were all 10000 km away from them
03:56
As an example, this is what the state of the art was for portable mortars in WWI: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokes_mortar
i know what we'd do
there'd be 0 infantry used
100% enemy casualties
can you guess what I refer to?
Yeah, it'd be superfluous.
Are you intending that they try to invade by water?
we'd use the nuclear missiles.
Oh, same continent
and blow up their entire continent
03:58
Ehhhh, I wonder at that.
if they were 10000 km away?
that would mean the distance from us to the moon
approximately
That's where the fallout would start.
missiles are pretty expensive.
Nuclear missiles prolly more so.
sure but that much radiation on an Earth that massive?
probably no worse than a single nuclear bomb test.
But there's a reason why the effects of Chernobyl were so bad.
I guess it depends on how large of a nuclear assault you'd need.
Which, to be fair, would probably not be a lot.
03:59
a continent the size of asia
in the middle of the pacific
with 10000 km of ocean surrounding it on all sides
That'd be a much bigger planet :)
precisely
it'd be like nuking the moon
At the same time, the scale of the nuclear bombardment would be proportionally larger as well
no
Asia stays the same size
You're nuking a continent the size of Asia :P
04:01
the oceans get bigger
Asia gets proportionally smaller
I think that the amount of nuclear fallout that'd be generated in such a bombardment would be enough that the fallout would be spread out even over a much larger world by the atmosphere.
basically like taking the current Earth's surface and shrinking it to an area the size of Texas along with all animals as well
@Semiclassical oh ok
what if it were only an island the size of India?
That said, I'm not sure how much fallout all nuclear detonations would leave.
Or for that matter Japan.
Eh, that's still pretty big.
04:03
meh
not important
btw
I think a neutron bomb doesn't leave a lot of leftover radiation?
I've been running progressively larger and larger tests
using first order polynomials to crack the Collatz Conjecture is doomed 100% to fail.
we need a different way of expressing numbers uniquely.
it's not new math that we need
it's just a less flaky way of expressing the integers
im thinking of maybe seeing if norms of algebraic integers might be useful here
like maybe taking two sets that span the integers with their norms and using it to get a unique way of representing any integer
(or a non-unique but still somewhat useful way)
i gotta go to the toilet
be back in a bit
user84215
04:22
Although I have little knowledge in mathematics, I am very eager to discuss mathematical subjects. I wonder how you great mathematicians have no tendency even to suggest an idea to create an event in [Discussing Specific Topics](https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/62845/discussing-specific-topics)
I think answering to the above question is more difficult than solving famous unsolved mathematical problems. I do not know why the Clay Mathematics Institute ignores this problem and pursues the problems like the Riemann Hypothesis and Hodge conjecture.
05:30
@amin I think it's more just the way this room seems to run is a bit different
I sorta see it as more, loose, unless someone comes up with an idea for something to self-study and gathers a group of like-minded people
Also, what exactly is "the above question"? Is it self-study?
@aminliverpool what above question? Mine? The Collatz Conjecture is a famous unsolved problem.
and I am currently in the process of thinking of what math would prove it. Rather than try to examine different mathematical systems, I'll work backwards. Just.... determine what I'd need to prove it.
wait a second
that's it!
each time I try to deal with lesser cases, there are cases that split in 2 or 3 or whatever when I multiply times other things
what I need to do is create a form of induction that inducts upon all the infinite splitting cases!
nvmd
I was getting overboard there
@Daminark hi
05:55
Hey
@Daminark any thoughts?
Collatz conjecture is kinda screwing with me a little bit, I almost fear there's an information problem at work
heh
Well what information do we need to solve it?
that is the fundamental question
Like, I dunno, you're trying to see what happens to divisibility when you add 1 to things
That sorta leap just blows my mind
actually not that tricky
we only care about divisibility by 3 and 2
it will be coprime
@Daminark I think the conjecture needs some kind of recursion to prove that it is self-replicating somehow.
06:00
Well, you're trying to make it long term, it sorta feels like a dynamics problem but where structure is trickier to extract
For instance, I suspect that all numbers m $2^n + 1 < m < 2^{n+1}$ map directly to $2^n$.
showing every number maps a finite distance away would solve it
@Daminark what is interesting is that an + 27 where n is arbitrary might be impossible to prove in general.
(aside from following from the conjecture of course)
@Daminark Of course it might just be that the right combination of cases trivializes it. It might be that divisibility by 5 matters in the long run. 7 is coming up as a recurring number in this whole thing.
06:26
MOD 5:
3x+1: 0->1, 1->4, 2->2, 3->0, 4->3
 x/2: 0->0, 1->3, 2->1, 3->4, 4->2
each transformation is bijective in mod 5
06:57
@LeakyNun not what I refer to
I'm referring to an inductive proof based around the form 5n + a
(proof by cases)
@Typhon you can't. the parity is lost in this representation.
 
2 hours later…
user84215
08:59
@Daminark @Typhon The "above question" refers to my question, "I wonder how you great mathematicians have no tendency even to suggest an idea to create an event in Discussing Specific Topics"
09:10
@aminliverpool I don't really see how that room differs from this one
user84215
@TobiasKildetoft In this room, people may ask their homework problems, but that room has been created for discussing a specific topic that its subject would be determined by others before beginning.
user84215
in Discussing Specific Topics, Jul 26 at 10:20, by aminliverpool
Because I think it is not good that only a room owner can create an event for the room, I have created the room, Discussing Specific Topics . In this room, people can discuss the topics they have specified before. Each topic lasts in this room for at most one day; It depends on its popularity among others. Its duration also can be specified before beginning.
@aminliverpool I see (this was not very clear from the room description). I am usually up for discussing anything related to algebra, but I don't have any good ideas for topics to discuss right now
guys I beg you... please any help with this quesiton?
0
Q: Residual analysis of the following recurrence

user8469759I'm trying to perform an analysis of a recursion. I'll provide a bit of background and then the actual question later. Let $\left\{ \omega_j \right\}_{j\in\mathbb{N}} = \left\{ \arctan \left(2^{-j}\right) \right\}_{j\in\mathbb{N}}$, let $\theta \in \left[-\sum_{j=0}^{+\infty} \omega_j, \sum_{j=...

09:48
@Twink I am Chinese by ethnicity, but where I live is a secret. I just tell this chat I am in Antarctica all the time.
Hello. I have a question about a proof in Humphreys Linear Algebraic Groups.

It's for the result that if $M\subset M(n,K)$ is a commuting set of matrices, then $M$ is simultaneously trigonalizable.

He sets $V=K^n$ and proceeds by induction on $n$. Does this mean we are also proceeding by induction on the size of the matrices of $M\subset M(n,K)$?
I imagine so. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. But then what is the inductive hypothesis?
That any set of commuting matrices $M\subset M(k,K)$ for $1\leq k \leq n-1$ is simultaneously trigonalizable?
@user462339 Yes
10:06
Have you got this book on you? (page 100)
(Where we have eigenspace $W=\text{ker}(x-a\cdot 1)$ for $x\in M$ and $a\in K$.)

"By induction, there exists $0\ne v_1\in W$ such that $Kv_1$ is $M$-stable."

How is that from induction?
Being trigonalizable implies that the matrix has an eigenvector. Some set of matrices being simultaneously so implies that they have a common eigenvector.
@JasperLoy Hey, how are you doing?
10:34
So he does show that we have an eigenvector $e_1\in W$ that generates an $M$-stable line, and he takes $V/Ke_1$, to give us an $n-1$-dimensional space, where any commuting set $M'\subset M(n-1,K)$ is trigonalizable by induction.

I just need to show that I can restrict my elements of $M\subset M(n,K)$ to $M(n-1,K)$, utilize my induction, and then bring their action back to $V$?
@user462339 Essentially, yes
For $x \in \Omega \subset \mathbb{R}^n, v \in \mathbb{R}^n, t \in \mathbb{R}, f: \mathbb{R}^n \to \mathbb{R}$, how does the $f(x+tv)$ looks like? Is that a line?
@Kirill No, it is a single real number
@TobiasKildetoft sorry, I mean for variable $t$ and $\lim_{t \to 0}$. Do all these points make a line?
Do you mean the set $\{f(x+tv): blahblah\}$, since that is still a point.
10:41
@Kirill Why would you make $t$ go to $0$?
@TobiasKildetoft oh it is in the definition of the partial derivative of $f$ in $x$ towards $v$: $\partial_vf(x) = \lim_{t \to 0, t \ne 0} \frac{f(x+tv) - f(x)}{t}$.
e.g. $f(x+h)$ for $f=x$ in $\mathbb{R}$ ist visually clear, but $f(x+tv)$ in $ \mathbb{R}^n$ not really
@user462339 yeah, the set for a fixed $x,v$, but variable $t$
Hi I tried to calculate the center of mass of a half circle with respect to the radius to avoid using x, y coordinates directly...See here on Wolfram Alpha:
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=(2%2Fpi)+integrate+r%5E2+dy+dr,+y%3D0..pi,+r%3D0..1
(I used y as $\phi$)
Unfortunately the result is wrong. Isn't it possible to calculate the center of mass with respect to the radius. Such that I can calculate: $S_x = S_r*S_{phi}$?
@Waiting Hey, how is your book coming along? Will we see it this year?

« first day (2554 days earlier)      last day (2766 days later) »