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9:01 PM
Aaaanyways, though, that gives $V_0\approx 113.6$. Now the moment of truth, when I compare that to Mathematica and see if I've done a silly algebra error myself :/
 
Hi chat
 
Okay, Mathematica agrees with me.
Now, there's probably some fancy explanation for why that trick just now worked.
But I don't know it, so I'll just justify it under the rubric of "it let me avoid having to square out that t^2 term".
One little punchline: If you go back to your original numbers and run the same game, what you'll get for the final time is just $t=1.5$.
 
mannnn, so much work just for one little question >_<'
 
Which is a sign that, when they picked the numbers, they did so in such a way as to get nice results.
Yeah. Hence why I said that I don't always like these ones :)
 
but i finally understand in depth now
And they saved it for last in the exercise
what a way they chose to ruin my night
 
9:09 PM
From a technical perspective, it probably would've been best to do this via the double-root method.
 
i dont know what that is
 
Let me quickly describe that, then.
 
all ears :)
 
Your quadratic was $16t^2+(9-V_0)t+171=0$.
So if you solve that for the collision time $t$, you get $$t=\frac{-(9-V_0)\pm\sqrt{(9-V_0)^2-4(16)(171)}}{2(16)}$$
There are then three possibilities. If what's inside the square root is negative, then you don't get any real solutions.
If it's positive, you get two real solutions.
If it's zero, you get exactly one zero i.e. the quadratic has a double root.
The condition for that is that $(9-V_0)^2=4(16)(171)$. If we assume that $V_0>9$ (it has to for this to make any sense) then taking the appropriate square root and solving gives $V_0=9+\sqrt{4(16)(171)}=9+48\sqrt{19}$.
This is assuming I did the algebra right, though. Lemme make sure.
 
Bonjour!
 
9:14 PM
@Semiclassical I understand right up to this point
 
You mean, you understand the stuff just before that?
 
@Semiclassical I mean this is where my understanding gets shakey :)
 
Hi @Dami
 
Ah. Well, if what's inside the square root is zero then the $\pm$ part goes away.
 
Hey @Astyx!
 
9:15 PM
In which case you get a single result i.e. $t=(V_0-9)/(32)$.
 
Wassup ?
 
Not much, how about you?
 
Just read the number of Hopf-Galois structures on L/K of type Gal(L/K)=Zp^n is asymptotically p^((2/27)n^3), which is coincidentally asymptotically the number of groups of order p^n up to isomorphism.
 
Hey @Daminark
 
Same
 
9:16 PM
Hey Zach!
 
I'm on spring break
 
coincidentally ?
 
If you think about the picture I gave earlier, this is telling you that 1) If the velocity is sufficiently high, then the ball would pass Colleen on the way up and then again on the way down, 2) if it's too small, the ball never reaches Colleen at all, 3) if the velocity is just right, there's only one time when it reaches Colleen.
 
Do coincidence exist in maths ?
 
@Semiclassical so is there a concise way to determine when the double root method i appropriate
@Astyx in theory maybe :)
 
9:18 PM
It pretty much only shows up in cases like this problem.
i.e. "what's the least initial velocity for two objects to meet"
 
@MeowMix I'm also not sure how I have 2006 views on my account on chess.com
 
@Semiclassical I'll be starting a physics course next year. I guess Ill be running into these a lot?
 
very strange.
 
Not really, tbh.
 
I suppose I am chess famous.
 
9:19 PM
They're fairly involved, so they don't show up a ton.
 
@Dodsy i wish more of myy friends played chess :/
 
But you'll definitely see it at least once, and maybe even on a quiz.
So it's good to see it now :)
 
i"m seen as odd sometimes when caught playing chess by friends
 
I don't have any friends that play! or any friends...
 
@Semiclassical i expect this on the exam
 
9:19 PM
Yeah, it's not uncommon.
 
Thats why i just wouldnt let the question go lol
 
Really? I used to hang out with a few people and pull out my phone to do a few problems all the time. I even used to play at work.
 
Techincally all your friends play chess then
 
@Dodsy lol /r/unexpected
@Astyx 0 =/= all
 
Oh. $9+\sqrt{4(16)(171)}=9+24\sqrt{19}$, not 48.
 
9:20 PM
@WillNjundong Add me on chess.com and we'll play sometime. My user is dodsy
 
So that matches what I got before using the longer way.
 
@Dodsy So, wait, you've done vector stuff, right?
 
That's not what he said 3 messages above :p @Will
 
Yes Zach!
 
Like, dot products?
 
9:21 PM
mhm dots.
crosses
projections
 
I'm gonna show you something that might blow your mind a little bit, but probably not.
 
@WillNjundong The upshot is that it is probably faster to do it via the quadratic equation and reasoning about when you'd get a double root (and why you want one)
 
Is it about orthogonal vectors?
 
versus the whole 'matching speeds and heights' approach. The latter is equivalent in its implications, but probably more tedious than helpful :/
 
Zach did you see I changed my location on chess.com?
 
9:23 PM
No, I didn't. What did you change it to? :P
 
Oh well.
 
Quebec city Canada :P
 
Is that your actual location?
 
wow. I'll have to be going for food now. But thank you sooo much @Semiclassical and @TedShifrin

I honestly get more math help online than from my professor ;)
 
God no!
 
9:24 PM
mmkay, glad to help
 
Bye @WillNjundong add me on chess.com
 
@Dodsy Anyways, here's the vector stuff.
 
Bye @Will
 
You know that $x \cdot y = ||x|| \cdot ||y|| \cdot \cos \theta$, right?
Where $\theta$ is the angle between them?
 
Yes
 
9:25 PM
@Dodsy currently trying to figure out how to do that lol
 
Okay, so I'm going to do something cool. Let me get out my geogebra
 
@Astyx cya!
 
Actually, do you mind if I use paint?
The drawings will look terrible.
 
how about desmos.com
 
@Dodsy done!
 
9:26 PM
then you can send me a link to it
 
Well, it's not graphing
 
okay @WillNjundong !!!!
 
I'll just use paint
 
okay :)
 
We have vectors $x$, $y$.
They are the sides of a triangle.
How do we get the vector representing the third side, from here?
Oh also, you know that $x \cdot x = ||x||^2$ for vector $x$, right?
 
9:29 PM
We create a parallelogram
 
Well, you want a vector from the tip of y to the tip of x
do you remember how to do that?
 
Yes!
 
It's just $x-y$
Or $y-x$, whichever you prefer
 
x + y I thought?
 
I prefer $y-x$
 
9:30 PM
No, that would be the diagonal of the paralellogram made by those two vectors
 
oh okay
 
Anyways, so we want to find the length of that side
$(y-x)\cdot(y-x)$ will be the square of the length, right?
Because we're taking the dot product with itself
 
which is y^2 * -x^2 ?
 
You can't "Square" a vector
Remember, $x$ and $y$ are vectors
 
what the hell am I thinking :)
 
9:31 PM
And $(x \cdot x)$ is the square of the length of $x$
By definition
 
Why wouldn't we use the parellelogram law of vector addition?
 
Because that would give us a different vector than what we wanted...
 
oh then we can solve for the angle between the vectors
 
even if x and y were numbers, (y-x)(y-x) does not equal y^2 * -x^2
 
Don't get ahead of me!
LOL
I'm gonna get Ted in here
 
9:33 PM
hey @arctictern ....
 
hey
 
you sneaky pete
 
That shows you which vectors is which
Both are diagonals of the parallelogram
But the one we want is $y-x$ or $x-y$
So we have that $||(y-x)||^2 = (y-x) \cdot (y-x)$, right?
 
you realize that these are the same lenth right?
 
The logic I remember is: y-x is the vector you add to x to get y.
 
9:34 PM
No, they're not.
 
And, no, none of those lengths are quite the same. y-x and x are close but not quite.
 
Anyways, so you can actually FOIL out those dot products
 
You would have a rectangle if these length were the same
 
^
You get $||(y-x)||^2 = (x \cdot x) + (y \cdot y) - 2 (x \cdot y)$
And of course, $||(y-x)||^2 = ||x||^2 + ||y^2|| - 2(x\cdot y)$ therefore, because the dot product with itself is its length squared
Finally, apply that little equation we had, that $x \cdot y = ||x|| ||y|| \cos \theta$ and we get:

$$||(y-x)||^2 = ||x||^2 + ||y||^2 - 2 ||x|| ||y|| \cos \theta$$
Look familiar, Nate?
 
Yes sir.
 
9:38 PM
What is that equation called?
Or, the same as.
The law of cosines... right?
$||(y-x)||$ is the length of the other side, $||x||$ and $||y||$ are our sides, and $\theta$ is the angle between our two sides
 
Sorry Zach! I have to go play a board game! Can we talk about this later? I'm really sorry!
 
Yeah, sure.
Seeya later
 
Sorry about that.
 
It's no worry
 
 
1 hour later…
11:03 PM
I wonder, is there a romance chat room?
4 = 2^2
9 = 3^2
49 = 7^2
are there any other such numbers who's digits and consecutive combinations of digits are squares?
^ actual math problem
 
For the numbers 1 - 1000, numbers with this property are 1, 4, 9, 49, 100, 144, 400, 441, 900, 1000.
There's an OEIS
 
sum_n(a^2*10^n) with n=0->inf
 
@Idle001 How do I guarantee that your sum is also a square?
 
ok ok theres retainees
 
2
A: Squares with squares

Peter TaylorOEIS calls them Numbers whose square is a nontrivial concatenation of other squares, and calls the sequence of their squares Squares which are a decimal concatenation of two or more squares. One of the references from that latter sequence calls the squares Smarandache square-partial-digital [numb...

Nvm, found it
 
11:17 PM
If $n \in \mathbb{N}$, then $(1-\frac{1}{2})(1-\frac{1}{4})(1-\frac{1}{8})(1-\frac{1}{16}) \dotsb (1-\frac{1}{2^n}) \ge \frac{1}{4}+\frac{1}{2^{n+1}}$

Anyone has any idea how to prove this by induction? I checked the base case when $n=1$ and got
$\frac{1}{2} \ge \frac{1}{2}$. Now I need to show that
$(1-\frac{1}{2})(1-\frac{1}{4}) \dotsb (1-\frac{1}{2^{k+1}}) \ge \frac{1}{4}+\frac{1}{2^{k+1}}$
 
Why $3/2$?
 
@Dragneel You've got the inductive hypothesis $(1-\frac12 )(1-\frac14)\cdots (1-\frac1{2^k})\geq \frac14 +\frac1{2^k}$. How are the two cases related?
 
@Dragneel Oh wait, sorry, my bad
What do you need to multiply both sides by to get $(1-\frac12)(1-\frac14)\dots(1-\frac1{2^k})(1-\frac1{2^{k+1}})$?
 
11:21 PM
$1-\frac{1}{2^{k+1}}$
 
Am I correct in assuming that $\prod^k_{k=1}{(1-{1\over 2^k})} \ge {1\over 4} + {1\over {2^k}}$ is a valid simplification of this?
 
Yes that's a valid simplification
 
Right. More precisely, if you multiply the inductive hypothesis on both sides by $1-1/2^{k+1}$, then you'll have the left-hand side of the desired result.
 
Okay, so we have
$(1-\frac{1}{2})(1-\frac{1}{4}) \dotsb (1-\frac{1}{2^{k}})(1-\frac{1}{2^{k+1}}) \ge (\frac{1}{4}+\frac{1}{2^{k+1}})(1-\frac{1}{2^{k+1}})$
 
Right. And now you want to show that the left-hand side is bounded by $\frac14+\frac1{2^{k+2}}.$
Simplest way to do that is show that the right-hand side of what you just wrote is bounded below by that.
(Its not immediately obvious to me why that bound follows, but I just finished dinner and I'm not terribly awake now.)
 
11:29 PM
Lol ok
What if I simplify it to

$(1-\frac{1}{2})(1-\frac{1}{4}) \dotsb (1-\frac{1}{2^{k}})(1-\frac{1}{2^{k+1}}) \ge (\frac{1}{4}+\frac{1}{2^{k+1}})(1-\frac{1}{2^{k+1}})$

$(\frac{1}{4}+\frac{1}{2^{k+1}})(1-\frac{1}{2^{k+1}}) \ge (\frac{1}{4}+\frac{1}{2^{k+1}})(1-\frac{1}{2^{k+1}})$ by the inductive hypothesis (inductive step)
Or does that not make sense. I think I just went in a nonsense loop
 

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