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3:00 AM
If it's true, it's very interesting
Yes but cap and cup are close don't judge me
It doesn't need to be a definition but it's certainly an interesting theorem
 
How would you name the theorem?
 
Gfp's theorem
 
good idea
 
Characterization of e by inequality
 
of Euler's Number
 
3:03 AM
Sure
Did you see my fancy graph of Si
 
The use of "Euler's Number" vs "e" on ProofWiki is inconsistent
@GFauxPas where?
 
Look at the definition sine integral page
Equivalence of Nomenclature of e and Euler's Number
 
@GFauxPas wow
 
:)
With the help of code from stack overflow, modified
 
so why is it that the limit is pi/2 and -pi/2?
 
3:05 AM
It's in the 'also see", "Dirichlet's Integral"
One of my professor's told me he read an article about how there's reason to believe that Dirichlet pronounced the "t" in his name
 
thanks
 
it's one of those proofs which make me go "yeah but how'd you figure out how to do that"
 
wow the proof is nice
 
someone should add the other end of the integral as a corollary
but i dont feel like it
I'm not satisfied with how I couldn't find a font for the axes labels that matched LaTeX's computer modern, but oh well
 
3:13 AM
Great! I just hope it;s true
 
it is true
 
maybe proof by contradiction with mean value theorem
I dunno
 
just use differentiation
 
you can't differentiate an inequality
?
 
The convexness of a^x-x-1
 
3:17 AM
To show $e$ satisfies it, find the minimum of $e^x-x$
Differentiation shows it happens when $e^x-1=0$, or $x=0$
 
it's the reverse implication that's harder
we have the inequality up somewhere already
 
Right. Maybe show that the inequality implies $\lim\frac{e^h-1}h=1$
 
DogAteMy, I heard your ping.
Here's your question: Give me three everywhere linearly independent tangent vector fields on $S^1\times S^2\subset\Bbb R^5$.
 
I figured it was time for a hard one.
I can give you more analysis ones if you prefer.
 
3:22 AM
Wait, $\subset\Bbb R^{\color{red}5}$?!?!
 
Well, ignore that if you want. $S^1\subset\Bbb R^2$ and $S^2\subset\Bbb R^3$, so naturally the product lives in ...
 
Oh, I see, that's less surprising than I thought it would be
I thought it meant something else
 
Well, other than my making typos, I don't know what it might have meant.
 
So, linearly independent here means that at any point, the vectors of the fields at that point are independent?
 
Yuppers.
hides from Balarka
 
3:25 AM
Hello, Balarka. In a few hours I shall be on your continent again.
 
What, really?
 
Boarding a plane in ~90 minutes to Israel.
 
Ah ... I guess that is the same continent.
Happy Chanukah, DogAteMy.
 
Visiting my sister who's spending her gap year (between high school and college) there. Also, Chanukah.
Happy Chanukah! And Merry Christmas
I don't actually know what you celebrate
 
LOL, I'm nominally Jewish.
I celebrate nothing :)
I'll give you something on uniform convergence if you don't like the geometry :)
 
3:27 AM
Nah, I like it, I just am not sure how to approach it…
 
Well, that's ok. It took me a while. You'll probably get it faster :P
 
Heh, thanks.
 
@MikeMiller It seems like a Morse theory argument, at least the homeomorphic fibers part. If $p : M \to X$ is your submersion, look at $F_1 = p^{-1}(x_1)$ and F_2 = $p^{-1}(x_2)$. Take a path $\gamma$ from $x_0$ to $x_1$ and look at $p^{-1}(\gamma)$ - that's a cobordism $W$ between $F_1$ and $F_2$. Projecting to the path back again we get a height function on $W$ which has no critical points - sounds like it shouldn't change the topology going from $F_1$ to $F_2$ then.
If this is/is not the right direction, give me a "Yes/No", but please don't reveal further :)
 
Did Balarka ever say hello?
 
Hello, @Ted, @Akiva
 
3:29 AM
LOL
 
whee, now that I figured out my code I'm a kid playing with his graphing calculator
 
How is the path a set of real values, @Balarka?
 
Thinking of "upwards" as "having the $S^1$ coordinate pointing clockwise", can I pick a point in $S^1\times S^2$ such that the projection onto the $S^2$ coordinate is the vector field that flows from the point to its opposite and that at the point is pointing straight upwards and that at the opposite point is pointing straight downwards @TedShifrin
 
@GFauxPas @AkivaWeinberger if a>1, then the minimum of $a^x-x-1=0$ is $x=\dfrac{\ln \left(\frac{1}{\ln a}\right)}{\ln a}$, when $a^x-x-1 \le 0$
@GFauxPas ??
 
3:31 AM
@Balarka The normal bundle to a fiber is trivial. Flowing along each vector field in a trivialization gives you a map F x R^n -> M. This is rather clearly a submersion along F x 0.
 
and then what if I do that for three random points to get my fields
 
$x(t) = t \operatorname{Ci}\left({t}\right), y\left({t}\right) = \operatorname{Si}\left({t}\right)$
 
@TedShifrin OK, embedded path.
 
I don't think it would be independant but it's hard to visualize
 
Wait, DogAteMy. I'm lost in that.
Are you giving me $3$ vector fields?
Going from a point in $S^2$ to its opposite gives no well-defined direction, btw.
 
3:32 AM
@TedShifrin Right, but there's a vector field on $S^2$ that is zero at a point $p$ and its opposite $-p$ and is pointing away from $p$ and towards $-p$ everywhere else
Oh, ignore the "upwards/downwards" bit from before
 
OK, I'll grant that. You can even write a formula for that.
How are you giving me 3 vector fields on $S^1\times S^2$?
Or even one.
They need to be everywhere nonzero, for starters.
 
Well, for each point $p$, I want the field $f_p$ to be such that the projection onto the $S^2$ coordinate is the thing I described,
such that the projection onto the $S^1$ coordinate is always clockwise,
and such that it's a unit vector everywhere
Assuming the $S^2$ field I described has a maximum vector length of $\ell<1$ it should be doable
So at $p$ and $-p$ it's just pointing straight "up"
(clockwise)
 
Well, that doesn't make sense.
 
math doesn't need to make "sense", Ted
 
At $(x,p)\in S^1\times S^2$ it's always a unit vector pointing tangent to $S^1$.
@GFauxPas, you're not helping.
DogAteMy: You're thinking of $S^1$ as always orthogonal to $S^2$, so I get what your "up" meant, I guess.
 
3:37 AM
What?
 
LOL ... it's your creation.
 
Yeah, they're orthogonal, right?
 
Sure.
As I defined things in $\Bbb R^5$, for sure.
 
@MikeMiller I am confused what you're answer to by that comment. Are you telling me the proof of the local trivialization part (after which homeomorphic fibers is just playing the game chartwise)?
*answering
 
DogAteMy: So this seems like a reasonable approach. How do you pick three different $p$ to get three linearly independent vector fields?
 
3:39 AM
@AkivaWeinberger I give up: how to prove 1-1/2+1/3-1/4+... = ln(2)?
 
Yeah, I don't know how to guarantee that
 
@DHMO: Taylor series plus a big theorem.
 
No, he means from $e^x\ge x+1$. You did this a while ago.
 
@TedShifrin no, the context is that we can only use the definition that e^x >= x+1
 
@DHMO Start by substituting in $x\mapsto-x$ and taking reciprocal to get a lower bound on $e^x$ in some range
 
3:40 AM
Serves me right.
I remember figuring this out on here a year ago or so. I'd never thought about it before.
 
is the "graph of a function" the unique set of tupels that belong to the cartesian product? Or can in some contextes the graph mean, well the picture of the function on some arbitary coordinate system?
 
@DHMO Also, maybe rewrite $1+\dotsb\pm\frac1n$ in another way
 
I had a small part in it, @TedShifrin
 
It's sneakier than I tend to be.
 
...But I don't remember what my part was
 
3:42 AM
LOL
 
This is like that movie about the guy with short-term memory loss
which, coincidentally, I don't remember seeing
 
Chris Nolan is a great director
 
DogAteMy, when you get to be my age, you forget most things.
 
he's the best @BalarkaSen
 
I wouldn't go that far, @GFauxPas.
But as a figure of speech, yes
 
3:43 AM
@Balarka I'm sure you can figure it out.
 
Memento was ruined by terrible acting though
 
So I'mma try to think up a more reasonable solution to your problem.
 
I meant as a figure of speech
good plot, actor who played protagonist was so mediocre
 
DogAteMy: I think you're on a perfectly great track.
 
As my sister would say, @TedShifrin, "You're a good kid."
 
3:44 AM
To me or to you?
 
I'm a kid? :D
 
She calls everyone 'kid', except for me, who is 'son'
 
@MikeMiller Alright, I'll ponder on it. I'm just way too sleepy to be doing much.
But, ironically, I can't sleep
 
What do your parents call you, then, DogAteMy?
 
3:45 AM
By my name.
 
e^x >= x+1
e^-x >= 1-x
where x<1
x+1 <= e^x <= 1/(1-x)
?
 
OF course. How logical.
 
they call you "DogAteMy"??
 
LOL, @GFauxPas.
 
@GFauxPas Only if Ted is my parent
 
3:45 AM
Someone should tell Akiva's Ted-name to his parents
 
@AkivaWeinberger Am I correct?
 
hey @TedShifrin
 
hi Karim
 
I think I am remembering what my part was
 
3:48 AM
@DHMO I think so
You can double-check with a graphing calculator
 
how does that help?
 
Karim: Not to me. I hate categorical nonsense.
 
@DHMO The question's about logarithms, so maybe derive similar bounds for logarithms
 
DogAteMy: If by the time you're on the other side of the world you want a different problem, you can let me know :) Meanwhile, with a bit of pencil and paper, you should figure this one out.
 
x >= ln(x+1)
ln(x+1) <= x <= -ln(1-x)
how does this help?
 
3:51 AM
That's not right, @DHMO.
 
where x<1
 
@TedShifrin Maybe we should ask him to prove the 4 dimensional smooth Poincare conjecture
 
Looks right to me
but maybe rearrange so that ln(x) is in the middle
 
not sure how to
 
LOL, Balarka.
 
3:53 AM
only way to stop him solving everything in 15 minutes
 
Nah, don't be silly.
 
I'll take that as a compliment
 
It's been more than 15 minutes, and my question isn't solved :P
 
He's got good ideas though
 
But I will say that if DogAteMy doesn't become a serious mathematician, I'll come chase him down.
 
3:54 AM
@AkivaWeinberger I prefer unreasonable solutions
 
Les français ne sont jamais raisonables. :)
 
@Sophie I think you'll find those in chemistry
 
NOT funny, @Balarka.
 
Yeah, I'll delete it
 
@DHMO I think from here you need to substitute in $x\mapsto\ln x$ instead of solving algebraically? I mean, the original equation is true for all x, so we can replace x with whatever other value we want
 
3:56 AM
Not all $x$, DogAteMy.
 
Right, once he took the reciprocal it was restricted
hence "the original equation"
 
Even before.
 
…All real $x$?
 
Oh, I guess the graph lies below the tangent line at $1$ for all positive $x$.
I was still thinking Taylor. Sorry.
 
…OK
 
3:58 AM
Anyhow, safe flight !!
 
e^x >= x+1 so x >= ln(x)+1 so ln(x) <= x-1
e^-x >= 1-x so 1/x >= 1-ln(x) so ln(x) >= 1-1/x
so 1-1/x <= ln(x) <= x-1
 
Where are going going with these inequalities?
 
@Sophie Trying to prove $1-\frac12+\frac13-\dotsb=\ln2$
without Taylor or derivatives or anything
 
I think DogAteMy may have jumped the gun. Maybe it's easier to leave it in exponential form until the end.
(With Taylor it still requires Abel's Theorem, although most people skip that subtlety.)
 
@TedShifrin We were discussing a question a while ago you might like: math.stackexchange.com/questions/2067785/…
 
4:01 AM
Eh, I'm not sure. I think your solution in the end required assuming $e^x$ was continuous because you did it weirdly
 
Oh, Fargle mentioned that one the other night, @Balarka. I have no clue.
 
but I might be misremembering
 
There's a pretty neat answer below.
 
hello!
 
Hi @SamuelYusim!
Long time
 
4:02 AM
yo @BalarkaSen
yeah I got really busy and kind of burnt out by the end of the last term
 
@DHMO Oh, also, it makes more sense to substitute in $\ln x$ rather than taking the log of the inequality because it would take a few more steps to show log is increasing
 
but now I've been back home for about a week, so I'm slowly coming back to my old self
 
@Balarka: Brian Scott is the point-set topology expert, for sure.
 
@AkivaWeinberger sure
 
Good to hear, take some well-deserved rest, @SamuelY
@TedShifrin I like Stahl's answer better though
 
4:04 AM
yep, I am
 
But Mike points out it won't even be $T_1$???!!!!
 
Yep, but still neat :)
 
Ugh.
But I'd forgotten it was @Alessandro's question. Duh.
 
It's not a bad trick. That's how you show that every finite dimensional CW complex with finitely many cells is weak homotopy equivalent to a finite topological space, I think.
Squish interior of every cell
 
You need regular CW complex for that to work probably.
 
4:10 AM
don't even remember definitions
 
Hmm. You're probably right
@TedShifrin I had to google the definition :P The attaching maps are homeomorphisms.
 
It certainly doesn't work for the small CW structure on circle
 
I was wondering what happened if you modded out by $z\rightsquigarrow z^n$ on the boundary circles.
I'm guessing DogAteMy is boarding the plane. I'll figure he has the answer before he lands.
 
Whats an example of a cw-complex not weakly homotopy equivalent to a regular one?
 
hi PVAL
 
4:13 AM
hi
 
what's a regular CW structure on RP^2?
 
I'm certain any simplical structure is automatically regular.
or am I mistaken?
 
That sounds right actually.
 
@TedShifrin Boarded. But it'll take us a while to lift off probably
 
Safe travels, DogAteMy. Regards to your family :)
 
4:18 AM
Tova (other sister, sitting next to me) says: "Tell him I send him back one regard." @TedShifrin
 
Well, one wouldn't want to be profligate.
 
@Ted What's an acceptable way to denote someone isn't the first of their name (e.g. their father had the same name) if its unclear if they use a suffix and generally only write in a language (and alphabet) I cannot read?
The example being A.A. Markov
 
Why are you asking me?!!
 
You know things about languages
 
I would use whatever name they use ?
 
4:22 AM
That's in Cyrillic though.
 
So? We transliterate.
 
and I don't think they use a suffix.
Wikipedia names him as A.A. Markov Jr.
 
Oh, interesting.
 
,but I seriously doubt that he ever went by that name with that suffix
 
4:24 AM
Somehow, I had always assumed that Jr. and III, etc., are American.
 
I think I've heard of Russian monarchs with things like (the third), but I have no idea what number A.A. Markov "Jr." is.
He's just the second famous mathematician of his name.
 
$\sf A^2~Markov$
 
I guess DogAteMy hasn't been logged off yet :P
 
Not quite yet. Soon.
 
I was expecting a reply to my remark, DogAteMy ... quite disappointed.
 
@TedShifrin Which remark
 
profligacy
 
Is it because using the word profligacy is a sign of profligacy
 
I hadn't thought so.
IT's not like being sesquipedalian.
 
Eh
So I don't know what you're driving at
 
4:32 AM
Go fly :)_
 
I do not think I am in control of such things
 
Take action. Take control. Hijack the aircraft.
 
OK, done, but a lot of people are angry at me
Now what
 
We'll come visit you in jail for 20 years.
Going on record: That was not my suggestion.
 
Don't forget to yell something catchy like deus vult
 
4:35 AM
are we on satire mode this morning
 
It's evening here, @Balarka, but we know you're confused.
 
It's 2am for me
 
well, that's morning, @Sophie.
 
It's about noon here
 
@Sophie Where are you??
 
4:36 AM
but I am not sure
 
Damn DogAteMy and this damn series, I don't think this can be done without calculus
 
LOL
 
Maybe I'll write up a solution tomorrow
Also, are you in South America maybe? @Sophie
 
The other day my mom found me in the middle of the night doing some math, she thinks I went insane but I told her the problem couldn't wait
 
Why not both
 
4:40 AM
It was very, very tricky. It used an alternative formula for the finite series.
Ironically, one that I used to assign on my first Calculus with Theory exam.
(proof by induction)
 
@TedShifrin I'm giving your bit on total curvature from the diffgeom notes a read.
 
Oh, you're really bored @Balarka.
 
Nah, I just felt I should fill it in. I had planned to read it quite a time ago and it's not really too much to read either
Fary-Milnor theorem is a childhood crush
 
All right, going radio silent. See you on the other side.
 
Safe flight
 
4:43 AM
Night, DogAteMy.
@Sophie: Did you see my hint above?
 
Working on it
 
Hi @robjohn
 
This is incredible
 
qu'est-ce qui est incroyable?
 
4:50 AM
Your French is terrible
 
@Sophie tu parles francais?
 
terrible?
 
@TedShifrin "qu'est-ce que c'est qui est incroyable"
 
Well, then things have gotten way more pedantic since I learned French.
 
My French is very rusty, probably worse than Ted's
 
4:51 AM
I'm going to ignore that.
Back to the math.
 
Anyway I inducted on the upper and lower bounds on $\ln(x+1)$ but I think I need some analysis to guarantee that I can sandwich the series
 
@TedShifrin Crofton is pretty amazing.
 
Yes @Balarka. You should do the proof of that formula using differential forms sometime. I can give a hint or two.
 
Do you know any finitists?
 
No, I know no finitist.
 
4:55 AM
What about N J Wildberger?
 
I do not know him, and nor do I have the least interest.
 
Total curvature? Like the integral?
 
Not actually sure how to go about a differential forms proof.
But then I am pretty weak on differential forms because I haven't used them in a while
 
They're like riding a bike. Or...
 
@MikeMiller Right, integral of the curvature over the whole curve.
 
4:58 AM
@Balarka: You could read section 3.3 of the geom notes. What's involved here is essentially using forms and pullback rather than doing a jacobian computation (as is suggested in the exercise). The depends on using two different moving frames (and that is discussed in 3.3).
 
It's a nice functional but Iforgot everything I read about it.
 
Anyhow, if you decide you want to pursue it, let me know. Otherwise, you can black box it or do the jacobian.
 
Oh, right, not really familiar with the language of moving frames. I'll have a look later though, thanks.
 
Going to get Soba. Hopefully I won't miss my train.
 
Soba?
You heading to the airport?
 
4:59 AM
Is that like the noodles
 
I dunno.
 
I don't think trains depart from airports
 
Well, some go to airports, but some don't. I dunno.
Night all.
 

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