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00:21
Wow, people go to such lengths to scam the system?
That sounds like too much effort.
 
1 hour later…
r9m
r9m
01:39
@Chris'ssis cute one! :) .. btw I got a nice way around the alternating Au-Yeung series $\displaystyle \sum\limits_{n=1}^{\infty} (-1)^{n-1}\frac{H_n^2}{n^2}$ :)
I will be overjoyed if I see a solution that just uses series manipulation :D (I couldn't get rid of le integrals :( .. )
when I say cute :| does it have a closed form?
r9m
r9m
02:05
Morning professor @Ted :)
Late evening here, @r9m :) good morning to you
r9m
r9m
@TedShifrin :) .. one of my friends got selected for U of Georgia this year! :-)
02:22
Oh? College or graduate school?
r9m
r9m
@TedShifrin grad school :)
Oh cool ... We have a small class coming this year. But I won't get to meet your friend ...
r9m
r9m
I didn't apply anywhere outside our country (I wouldn't stand a chance anyway) .. my grades are too poor :|
02:46
so the book I'm looking at right now has about 25 problems at the end of each chapter, plus exercises in the chapters as you go, and in the preface it says that it'd be a bit much to expect the student to go through all the problems
the question I have is, if I'm reading on my own, how do I decide which problems to do?
what's the book
John M. Lee's introduction to topological manifolds
if it's anything like his smooth manifolds book the problems aren't terribly difficult and generally give some insight
I don't see any harm in trying to do them all in your head, even if you don't write down a formal proof
if you've really mastered the chapter it might not be unreasonable that you can figure out the idea behind how to do each problem pretty quickly
I read the first two chapters a while ago, and the first one had no actual work associated with it, so I'm coming back maybe a week and a half later and trying to do the chapter 2 problems and I'm finding them a little harder than I might like
but this is probably due to a number of factors and I feel like I do learn a lot when I actually do solve them
I've so far been able to do the first 5 and I'm on the 6th so if you think it's worth it then I suppose it just confirms my fear that I'll need to spend a couple nights getting through all of these problems
I'll just man up and do it
well this is the point, right? if they're hard it means there's more to learn
03:00
I am not familiar with the book, but it might mean that in a typical class it might be unreasonable to have students do every problem for homework, say over a semester or year, not necessary that the problems are too difficult for a grad student to do.
I'll take a look when I get
home
well I'm certainly no grad student
yeah, I get the feeling that the exercises are pretty standard stuff
03:19
@SamuelYusim: A few of these look somewhat tedious and unnecessary, but in the large, these are all standard things worth doing. Some important examples get developed etc.
@MikeMiller yeah, it's reasonable that I try and do them all then
I think they all should be doable with some effort. The real worry is less that you can't do it, and more that you'll get sick of it. I think one was like "Here's six properties of maps, find examples of maps with and without each" or something like that
that's a lot of things to check, I would get sick of it pretty quick
but the things, IIRC, were reasonable to find examples of, and it helps to build your collection of examples
number 5, right?
let me check again
yeah
well I already did that one so whatevs I guess
03:24
i forgot how damn long his books are
I really am getting the feeling from his exposition that point-set topology is just a somewhat uninteresting tool that's really useful for solving very interesting problems
hello people
frankly it's not entirely about solving problems, it's partly about stating them
this is roughly my view of it. many disagree.
03:26
but forgive me if I'm sort of finding this to be a slog so that I can eventually get to the interesting parts of the book
I find it a complete slog
it's just that it's worth slogging once
yeah
better now than when my life depends on it
♬ slogging through the snow ♬
Plus its not like you can't read past the problems to see what is going on
an interesting problem I was looking at though was the question of how many topologies you can put on a set with $n$ elements
03:29
i'm very impressed by the table of contents, the first 7-8 chapters are almost exactly the topics I think should be covered in a first topology course
well great then because waterloo doesn't offer topology
feel free to ping me if you have questions
they used to have a set theory and topology class or something but they axed it even though they retained algebraic topology
and sure thing, I really appreciate it
03:31
when I was reading Lee's smooth manifolds book I had this eternal conflict with him
on the one hand I liked how easy to read it was and how he very carefully exposited everything
on the other hand he never shuts up
in what sense?
does he just explain too much theory at once, or give too many examples, or what
it's just very very long and he explains the most trivial details of proofs; on the one hand this is helpful when you're working on something you're having a tough time grappling with, and on the other hand for the chapters where you've really got it down it's so long and unnecessary
it's been a while so i couldn't give any examples but i left with the feeling that you could cut the size by, say, 30% without substantially changing the content or feel of the book
well so far he's left almost every proof as an exercise so I can't say I've experienced this
03:36
let me skim the compactness chapter and see how i feel there
The table of contents look interesting. I really don't know enough topology to even guess what the purpose of "Topological Manifolds" would be. To get started classifying "nice" spaces?
manifolds are essentially the objects of study of geometric topology
I'm hoping to eventually learn some geometry
I feel like I haven't learned any geometry yet
ask Ted about that; I would be the wrong guide
as in, in my time as a math student
03:39
curves and surfaces stuff I think is the canonical thing to study first
OK, fair enough...
Samuel, you might consider trying to find a copy of Berger's Geometry, if you have an algebraic/group theory background at all. I haven't gotten far, but it's definitely some grade A geometry
yeah, I know a fair bit of algebra
Is the axis of a cylinder a line through the center of the circles at each end?
I would say so, Jeff. It should be the line about which the cylinder is rotationally symmetric, and that fits what you described
So, if a region is revolved around the x axis. The disks (calculus, integrating) perpendicular to the axis of revolution and with respect to x. But shell method shells are also called perpendicular to the axis of revolution?
and shell integration then done with respect to y
no wait, the shells are called parallel to the axis of revolution sigh
03:50
Yeah, I completely forgot the shell method was a thing, until I had to tutor someone on it...
ok i read chapter 4. other than paracompactness, which is kinda technical and not really necessary for a basic level of understanding (it's important so that you can do an important construction called partitions of unity; that's pretty much literally it), i guess there's nothing i wouldn't do, so i'm not sure how i would change it
but it's still SO LONG OMG
Well, to be fair, if it's supposed to be a gentle introduction, maybe a little "unnecessary" length isn't such a bad thing.
i'm not sure he uses paracompactness anywhere else in the book.
if i were teaching a course based on the book, i would not cover paracompactness
same thing with normal spaces (this is certain to get more flak from others). they're important to know eventually. they're not important to know now. he never uses the main theorem (Urysohn's lemma) anywhere else in the book.
I'm having difficulty figuring out why if two finite sets have the same cardinality then there is a bijection between them; is this provable? Is it just a matter of definition (the definition of equinumerosity)?
04:02
my personal taste would be to cover chapter 4 but skip both of those & partitions of unity, and come back later. this saves about 10 pages.
@flakmonkey: What's your definition of having the same cardinality?
I haven't been using a rigorous definition; I'm just looking at {1,2,3} and {star, heart, diamond} and trying to figure out how I would rigorously prove that there is a bijection between them
if two sets have the same cardinality then they're both equinumerous with the same cardinal
You write one down.
call said cardinal c
Define a map f: {1, 2, 3} -> {star, heart diamond} by f(1) = star, f(2) = heart, f(3) = diamond.
04:04
then you have bijections $S_1 \to c \to S_2$ and $S_2 \to c \to S_1$
The basic idea is to carry around a "canonical" set of a given size. Usually for a set of size $n$, it's convenient to use $[n] = \{1, 2, \ldots, n\}$. Then, if your set has size $n$, it's in bijection with $[n]$.
What if I'm trying to prove for an arbitrary set S with 3 elements, there is a bijection between it and {1,2,3}?
It has three elements. Send one of them to 1; send another to 2; send a third one to 3.
if you know your set has 3 elements then by counting them you've implicitly bijected with {1, 2, 3}
that's really what you mean in a rigorous sense when you talk about the size of a set
But then to generalize, for arbitrary n \in \mathbb{N}, if a set has cardinality n then there is a bijection between it and the set {1,2,...n}; then I would need to use pjs36's idea?
that makes sense, thank you
04:08
same thing here, right? when you say it has n elements you've counted them off
here's the first one, here's the second one, ..., here's the nth one
and that's your bijection
(actually it's usually {0, 1, 2} but who cares)
Usually @flak, we just take it to be one of the definitions (that $|A|=|B|$ iff there is a bijection between them)
 
2 hours later…
05:44
Hi
hey guys, can someone help me identifying correct tags?
06:07
sure@paul23
Questions about linearity of a function what are proper tags?
Considering the function is a recursive one
functional analysis@paul23
linear algebra
ty
Linear algebra?
Isn't that for matrix calcuations?
lol...linear algebra is not just matrix calculations
It has linear transformations which are linear maps...@paul23
Okay But looking at your question i think it dosent need linear algebra tag
lol you already saw it?
06:13
yes
I have two windows open
one for chat, other on questions main site
Well considering I only posted after you said "function analysis" that was some quick updating :P
Actually considering everything I think it just boils down to "is summation a linear operator"
There we go!!
Well just after my initial posting I discovered/thought that by noting time is independent of space and the same time is used for all points it means I can just remove the subscript there. Which cleaned up the lot.
Hmm this is probably turning out to a matter of asking the question is answering it
06:45
Hi@TobiasKildetoft@Karim
@Rememberme Hi
@TobiasKildetoft what background do you require for real and complex analysis??
Is calculus,number theory,a bit of linear algebra,abstract algebra enough??
@Rememberme Just calculus should do to get started on real analysis
though I guess some linear algebra is good
and probably the same for complex
Fine...I think i will be doing it in the next few weeks with linear algebra
though at some point it will probably be good to learn some topology
06:48
I know because i am doing real and complex analysis for topology....
hi @Rememberme
07:06
-4
Q: jinpoker.com agen judi poker online dan domino online indonesia terpercaya

Jamaique Zack Gimbal HandlerloJinpoker.com agen agen poker online dan domino online indonesia terpercaya menjadi pilihan yang sangt tepat untuk para pecinta judi poker maupun domino online karna situs ini adalah terpercaya dii indonesia. http://zackzone.heck.in/jinpoker-com-agen-judi-poker-online-dan.xhtml

@Rememberme You don't need to comment on those. Just flag as spam (no need for close votes either, spam flags are better)
can someone tell me what on earth is this
@Rememberme attempt to get the link on a site with a high google ranking
The question has been removed...
@Rememberme Yeah, it happens fast with spam flags
07:08
but why is it a spam i dont get that
@Rememberme It was an advertisement for a poker site
Cheap work
@TobiasKildetoft If someone says N is infinite does what he says is wrong?
isnt it countably infinite
@Rememberme depends on context
the natural numbers is certainly an infinite set
countably infinite is a special case of infinite
07:12
Because my prof keeps on saying N is uncountable and when i said he said i am wrong and kicked me out @TobiasKildetoft
@Rememberme It is certainly not uncountable
it is countable by the very definition of countable
I mean, it is even used to define countable
there exist a bijectioin from N to N isnt it
@Rememberme well, countably infinite means bijection to $\mathbb{N}$
though sometimes people use countable to mean countably infinite
the terminology is not completely rigid
Of course my class yet dosent know what a bijection is It just knows that if i cant count the elements it is uncountable and that is utter nonsense
@Rememberme if that is the level, then it would have been better if there was no mention of countable and uncountable at all
07:16
Yes ....
but then, if your teacher defines countable to mean finite, then he is not technically wrong
I think he thinks countable implies finite,uncountable implies infinite
@Rememberme why did countability come up at all?
God knows...See i dont pay attention to what he says i keep on doing other maths stuff..But when i heard the person sitting beside me saying "isnt that obvious that N is uncountable" i asked my prof can he revise the definition of countability and after that what he said shocked me....@TobiasKildetoft
And worst part about him is he just writes the formulas how you reach there is none of our business he says....
He says derivative of sin(x) is cos(x) and that is a fundamental result .... I asked him how did you reach here and he is like its just a result So i said i think you woke up in the morning and found cos(x) sitting on your dining table saying"I am the derivative of sin(x)!!!!!!"
My math class is horror ... pure horror
@Rememberme Just bring something else to read, but make sure you pay enough attention to get a proper grade (assuming your grade will matter)
07:24
I read linear algebra....
@Rememberme Also, remember that if proofs of the statements are not part of the curriculum, then the rest of the class might not appreciate you wanting to see them all the time
not everyone appreciates math and its proofs
Ha the whole class hates me..... lol
There is also a reason for that
I suck at chemistry
Especially physical chemistry
I just want my school to start so i can easily understand this chemistry stuff and there are people who appreciate maths over there@TobiasKildetoft
@Rememberme What school to start?
This is just an institution which makes you ready for an engineering entrance exam whose scores are important for most of the mathematical institutions in India@TobiasKildetoft
@Rememberme Ahh. I forgot, where in the world are you?
07:29
The worst place India
07:50
Hi
Is a matrix with ones and zeros, a special matrix?
@anon
Identity matrix??
that's a subjective question
@Gigili Well, they are called 0-1 matrices
some of them are quite special :)
The matrix which i like is the matrix of a linear transformation,,,
07:54
Well, a matrix of size $N \times |w_k|$ is defined as follows: ones on the $(w_k (i) , i)$ th entries and zeros elsewhere
What special property does it have that multiplying it by a row vector shrinks the row vector by discarding its zero entries?
I don't get it
hey @TobiasKildetoft A group can be represented as a linear transformation?
@Rememberme Not really. It can sometimes be represented as a set of linear transformations
Groups can be written as matrices thats for sure right?@TobiasKildetoft
@Rememberme Almost. Some groups can be written such that their elements are matrices (not all groups can)
All finite groups can
07:59
That means we get another way of representing finite groups geometrically
without using cayley graphs
@Rememberme Sure, we get many in fact (same group might be realizable in many ways, not all of them faithful)
this is called representation theory (my field)
Yes..and i have this question have a look can you tell some other way than cayley groups
19
Q: Can I represent groups geometrically?

Remember meI have just taken up abstract algebra for my college and my professor was giving me an introduction to groups, but since I like geometric definitions or ways of looking at stuff, I kept thinking, "How do you represent a group geometrically in a space?" Is there any way of representing it?

@TobiasKildetoft
@Rememberme Well, we get some sort of geometric interpretation, but it might not be very useful (it tends to be in very high dimension)
So what would be a assured way of representing groups without cayley graphs
r9m
r9m
@Rememberme 'engineering entrance exam whose scores are important for most of the mathematical institutions in India' .. I don't follow, what has mathematical institutions have to do with scores of an engineering entrance exam?
08:05
@r9m I mean JEE
@Rememberme Well, any group can be represented as a group of permutations of a suitable (possibly very large) set.
IISC,there are some more i just dont remember now@r9m
r9m
r9m
@Rememberme as far as I knew JEEs and math instis work poles apart ;)
yes i know that but IISC does take the JEE result@r9m
r9m
r9m
@Rememberme aha! then perhaps just that place .. :| the rest won't bother asking for JEE performance
08:07
@Rememberme Also, any group can be represented as a group of linear transformations on some vector space (but it might be infinite dimensional, so not necessarily as matrices)
@TobiasKildetoft So this implies i can represent linear transformation geometrically which would indirectly mean that i am representing groups geometrically
But only few
am i right @TobiasKildetoft
Still waiting @anon, thanks for your help
@Rememberme Yes
@TobiasKildetoft are you interested in NT?
08:13
@Rememberme Not particularly
Oh...I have two open conjectures which havent been solved yet@TobiasKildetoft
@Rememberme So do I (though mine is not NT)
Representation theory ??
@Rememberme There are just too many conjectures in NT. They are so easy to make and check up to some large number
@anon Umm, I thought you were reading the paper to answer my question
Didn't you read the question I asked above?
08:14
@Rememberme Yeah, more precisely complex representations of finite gorups
Aren't you following?
sad panda smiley
representations......hmm nice i never thought of that
You said complex what do you mean by complex representation in the complex plane?@TobiasKildetoft
@Gigili have you tried writing down examples to see what's going on?
@Rememberme I mean over the complex numbers (so representing the group using matrices of complex numbers)
@anon Not really, I will do it now
08:17
SO basically yes in the complex plane if you think geometrically
that makes me stumble upon one more question....
@Rememberme No, not really
now we are thinking of the complex numbers as being $1$-dimensional
I mean, if you take the identity matrix and delete columns from it, you get a nonsquare matrix that deletes the corresponding entry of the vectors it's applied to. that's what's going on here.
ah...1 dim
@Rememberme And then we take an $n$-dimensional vector space over the complex numbers
so my question was do cayley graphs hold good for complex representations of groups??@TobiasKildetoft
08:19
there is not really any geometric intuition (or reasoning) involved
@Rememberme Not sure what you mean by fine
Also not sure what you mean by hold good.
I mean cayley graphs are way of representing groups right are the also way of representing groups which contain complex elements??
lol
3
why?@anon
@Rememberme When I study complex representations, I fix the group and study all the possible representations of that group. The "interesting" question are then no longer about the group but about those representations as abstract objects
ah...got it
08:23
your comment is very muddled. in what sense do graphs "contain complex elements"? does that make a graph into a vector space? the word "represent" has a very precise meaning, it is not just some sloppy informal word we're using.
yes it was a bit informal to start with
Greetings
@r9m I also have a nice proof to that one. ;)
@r9m btw, I'm pretty disappointed no one is able to answer this question ...
20
Q: Calculate in closed form $\int_0^1 \int_0^1 \frac{dx\,dy}{1-xy(1-x)(1-y)}$

Chris's sisCan we possibly compute the following integral in terms of known constants? $$\int_0^1 \int_0^1 \frac{dx\,dy}{1-xy(1-x)(1-y)}$$ Some progress was already done here http://integralsandseries.prophpbb.com/topic279.html but still we have a hypergeometric function. What's your thoughts on it? UPDA...

@r9m then here is another question I created $$\int_0^{\pi/4} \frac{\cos (2 x) }{1+\sin ^2(2 x)}\log (\cos (x)) \, dx$$
@r9m maybe it's not that hard as you expected but it gives you a very important lesson in case you don't know how to do it. I'm seriously thinking to add it to my book too.
wow how @Chris'ssis ^ that is a heck of an integral
@Rememberme Which one more exactly? The double one or the single one? :-)
single one
wait...
08:32
@Rememberme All you need is a bit of art. It depends if you're an art lover or not. That might definitely help you, indeed. :-)
the double one too
the double one is something i have never even thought of amazing!!
@Rememberme True, it's amazing.
Ha I hate chemistry Its not giving me time to solve @Chris'ssis beautiful integral..... :(
@Rememberme Do you study chemistry? I thought you're a math student though.
Have to know other choices
I am a 11th grader
08:38
OK
So sad.....I feel like throwing my chem book out of the window
08:49
@Rememberme Why?
@Rememberme You can be an artist in chemistry as well ... :-)
I cant solve questions in it......First it just writes down the formulas how you get to them no idea second it defies logic how you reach conclusions it@Chris'ssis
@Rememberme Don't you have some rules to follow?
Yes i have rules but why those rules,how those rules no one is there to answer these
@Rememberme Maybe you can clarify this on chemistry.stackexchange (finding someone that explains to you all these rules).
yes i think thats the only thing i have have to do
08:53
I was pretty good at chemical equations, but I forgot the stuff.
@Chris'ssis i am not talking equation i am talking physical chemistry
I see.
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis okay !!! :)
09:25
Hi @r9m @Rememberme
7.4 near Everest.
@r9m I'm preparing a new question for American Monthly, perhaps one of the most beautiful questions they received this year. :-) It might not look friendly, but it can be finished without pen and paper.
09:58
(actually, it's about 2 questions)
@Sawarnik you mean a earthquake??
@BalarkaSen hi
Hi bananas
@Chris'ssis do you have a closed form for that? It is easy to transform it to $$\sum_{k=1}^\infty\frac{e^{1/k}-1}k$$
@BalarkaSen im doing the mapping torus exercise from hatcher. i dont see why $T_f$ can be built from $X \vee S^1$ by attaching cells.
10:09
@robjohn hmmm, I don't think so. Let me check something.
@robjohn I used formula $(1)$ here mathworld.wolfram.com/RiemannZetaFunction.html to turn it into an integral.
@robjohn perhaps a nice problem would be to show that the series you got can be turned into that integral.
@Chris'ssis I tried that, but haven't gotten a closed form yet
@robjohn Yeah, the integral is not friendly at all.
$$\sum_{k=0}^\infty\frac{t^k}{k!^2}=I_0(2\sqrt{t})$$ where $I_0$ is a Bessel function
$$\int_0^\infty\frac{I_0(2\sqrt{t})-1}{e^t-1}\mathrm{d}t$$
:21591470 forgot that :-)
10:25
@robjohn Can this integral have a nice closed form? hmmm, no idea. :-)
@Chris'ssis No idea. I don't see a closed form nearby.
 
1 hour later…
11:51
@MikeMiller The third chapter is on homology.
by "third chapter", i of course mean ch. 2.
did quite well on a first course of complex analysis 2 years ago, now I can't even remember the definition of a contour integral :(
Hello @BalarkaSen
hi. we just got hit by a huge earthquake.
Wow! How huge?
7.4 or something, iirc.
11:57
That is pretty damn big. Does the area get hit with earthquakes a lot?
@PaulPlummer interestingly, no, it doesn't, and that's what's terrifying us. actually, these earthquakes are generating on Nepal for about a month, but I guess this is the greatest earthquake we have ever seen.
Nepal has been completely destroyed with millions of people dead. I wonder if we'll get hit by bigger ones in coming days.
Millions?
Figure of speech, but the number is not very small.
Okay, Yah looking around, it is a lot
12:28
Sorry for my absence lately, last week was finals and I was getting financial aid sorted out this week
12:40
@iwriteonbananas I don't think it's even true.
ADG
ADG
@BalarkaSen help
I have y=x+1
it is very negative at very left of axis.
right?
12:59
@teadawg1337 here is where the mathematics I like begins
21
Q: Calculate in closed form $\int_0^1 \int_0^1 \frac{dx\,dy}{1-xy(1-x)(1-y)}$

Chris's sisCan we possibly compute the following integral in terms of known constants? $$\int_0^1 \int_0^1 \frac{dx\,dy}{1-xy(1-x)(1-y)}$$ Some progress was already done here http://integralsandseries.prophpbb.com/topic279.html but still we have a hypergeometric function. What's your thoughts on it? UPDA...

@Chris'ssis I'm nowhere near that level of rigor....
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis wich issue? :D
@r9m Well, I didn't send the proposal yet. They suggested me the last time to send something easier.
Quick question: what does this notation mean?
$f:[1,\infty] ->[0,\infty]$. Is it to do with range and domain?
I am pretty sure you need $X$ to be a CW-complex, @iwriteonbananas, but I can't think of a counterexample right now. Does this work with the Hawaiian earring? I haven't thought about it.
13:05
@surelyourejoking I believe it means $x\in[1,\infty]$ maps to $f(x)\in[0,\infty]$
@teadawg1337 that's kindaaa similar to range and domain right?
$f: domain \to codomain$
@PaulPlummer alright thanks!
range is the image of the domain, $f[domain]$, that is the set of $f(x)$ for all $x$ in the domain
@BalarkaSen That is pretty funny
13:14
I was Robin Hartshone's "Algebraic Geometry" :P
You don't even need too answer all of them,
I was Joe Harris's Algebraic Geometry: A First Course
But when I changed one color I became Hartshones...
cool, we are both algebraic geometry textbooks.
i never knew.
I was Frank Warner's "Foundations of Differentiable Manifolds and Lie Groups"
keep wondering,try to get out,pastel,great pyramids,comics
I did "keep wandering, try to get out, black and white, stonehenge, comics"
13:21
If I just answer the first two, since those are the only ones I have a "real" opinion about I get Joseph H. Silverman's The Arithmetic of Elliptic Curves.
So I'm the only one here that enjoys a good crossword puzzle?
I chose "Navigate, route and routine, pastel, Taj Mahal, crossword"
I guess so, I maybe would have chosen sudoku, a little surprised that wasn't there
With those choices, the fourth question doesn't seem to affect my outcome
13:36
@teadawg! You exist.
@Balarka: Your chapter counting reminds me of the way they number floors in Europe. The first floor is the first floor above ground level. Always confuses Americans.
right, we count our floors that way too. I agree that it's confusing.
PS, @Ted : I don't believe your statement about smooth retract of manifolds being manifolds.
Well, @Balarka: After you learn multivariable analysis, you should try to prove it. All you need is $C^1$.
Why don't you believe it?
@TedShifrin Indeed I do, and the meeting went swimmingly last week. He said my work is fantastic, but it wasn't his specialty. However, he did give me the names of two people who DO specialize in analysis
Very cool, @teadawg. When you get immersed (pun intended) in stuff I know about, I look forward to seeing it :P
@TedShifrin I hope differential geometry is mostly calculus with a little bit of geometry, because I love both equally :P
13:43
It's geometry in a very different sense from what you think of ... :)
Though more beautiful
For example, try to decide what it should mean to say tangent vectors at different points of a sphere are "parallel."
@TedShifrin I don't know, it looks like a pretty strong result. I don't believe it should be true if my manifold doesn't have a differentiable structure.
Well, @Balarka, of course I'm in the (at least) $C^1$ category or it doesn't make sense to say a map is smooth.
What's your example of a continuous retract that is not a submanifold?
I don't have an example, thus I say "I don't believe it" rather than "it's not true" :)
@TedShifrin oh, ok.
13:47
Ah, well, you should think about an example ... very non-esoteric.
Example of what? I think you just said that your statement was true?
Example of this.
Continuous retract of a manifold that is not a submanifold?
OK.
Yuppers.
Don't try to be too fancy.
Well, their initial points must both lie on the intersection of the boundary points of the sphere and a plane that "splits" the sphere in half
... Or was that a rhetorical question?
13:52
No, the point is that you have to wrestle with what parallel ought to mean in general. How do you move a tangent vector from one point to another (along a particular path) so that a resident of the surface never sees it turn as it moves along (i.e., all turning occurs normal to the surface).
I'm still not particularly well-versed in thinking three-dimensionally, and definitely not as much as I should be...

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