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03:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

03:52
Wow... even sleepier here than last night.
 
2 hours later…
05:38
Several users expressed disagreement with some of 900 sit-ups a day's actions. OTOH there is no doubt that this user devotes lot of effort and time to this site. It is not surprising that he leads participation tab in the moment. I find especially his work on improving questions impressive.
@MartinSleziak ?
05:54
@TedShifrin yeah
@AlecTeal You probably did not follow the most recent turmoil on meta.
There's quite often a lot of drama on meta.math.SE.
What happened @MartinSleziak
That's difficult to sum it up in a few sentences.
A user started downvoting some answers, so that the questions can be autodeleted: Is it appropriate to downvote answers for the sake of deleting a question?.
Has he been making a lot of tiny edits?
Is it his bragging about downvoting?
06:03
Oh wow
I just found his answer on that thread @MartinSleziak
How arrogant.
Some users complained about this (even threatened to leave the site): Is there an MSE-like site that is more pleasant to work in? Or are there other solutions?
@MartinSleziak I stopped with SO for that reason.
I guess these 3 threads give an image on what was going on on meta recently. But there is a lot of answers and comments there, so it would take a long time to read all of them.
@AlecTeal I would not call him (or her?) arrogant. He certainly has a point.
@MartinSleziak Hercules comparison
/me is reading
@MartinSleziak I don't get the point in wanting to delete things (the obvious spam ones of course....) because it's a few KB somewhere, it hurts no one to keep it.
Quote from his answer: I see such Q&As as broken windows, through which new users enter (via Google search, typically), and conclude that the site is of low standards.
06:09
And you don't think he's arrogant?
@MartinSleziak Just out of curiosity, it almost seems ill-advised to pump out calculus and precalculus answers with such high volume. I don't think that math.se should be solely for 'advanced' mathematics, but the vast majority of these more 'basic' questions have millions of completely analogous (if not literally the same) answers elsewhere on the web.
Just out of curiosity, what's your opinion about: *
:)
I am not sure. (And I certainly do not consider myself a person who should influence of the community views.)
@MartinSleziak Fair enough. :)
I think the campaign is not against precalculus, calculus and low-level questions. It is mainly against badly written questions.
If you notice his profile, he quite often improves questions: By improving titles, wording, adding context or OP's effort if it was mentioned in comments.
06:14
@MartinSleziak I wasn't even necessarily commenting on any 'campaign', I was just asking in the abstract. Personally, I think that a lot of people take this website way too seriously. When I go on meta, which granted isn't that often, it seems like a bad high-school drama.
2
The reason I posted my comment above was to say that I appreciate his activity. Many things he does are without any doubt useful.
@AlexYoucis Yes, this comparison fits.
I have to go AFK for some time. See you later!
See ya.
I wonder if he really does 900 sit ups a day.
06:36
Off topic. If I define $CS(\mathbb{Q})$ as the set of all Cauchy sequences of rational numbers, the equivalence relation ~ on CS by $(x_n)~(y_n)$ if $x_n - y_n\to 0$, then define $\mathbb{R}=CS(\mathbb{Q}$, how do I show that this identification is unambiguous?
Greetings
@r9m are you sleeping? :-)
@Chris'ssis
Are you the guy that does all the integrals?
nevermind, got it
@AlexYoucis not really. There is a page with the integration gurus somewhere on this site, they can do this. :-)
(still learning here)
I have a problem, I receive again and again the same message.
@Chris'ssis It always happens.
07:15
Here is a very nice series $$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \left(\psi^{(0)}(n)+\frac{1}{2}\psi^{(1)}(n)-\log(n)\right)$$
I'm thinking to modify it such that it produces other results.
07:33
I'm going to show you something insane ...
07:44
@Chris'ssis What is insane?
@JasperLoy The series above that has a very nice closed form ... :-)
08:20
@r9m You might possibly love this version much more $$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} (-1)^{n+1} \left(\psi^{(0)}(n)+\frac{1}{2}\psi^{(1)}(n)-\log(n)\right)$$
and then
$$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} (-1)^{n+1} \left(\psi^{(0)}( n) + \frac{1}{2} \psi^{(1)}(n)-\log\left(n\pm\frac{1}{2}\right)\right)$$
r9m
r9m
08:41
@Chris'ssis g' morning :)
@Chris'ssis g' morning :)
@r9m g' morning :)
09:15
@DanielFischer sorry for yesterday, sometimes I get annoyed too fast and say things.
NP, @Chris'ssis.
@Chris'ssis We are kids. You are a kid reading in a higher standard than @Khallil. That's all.
As for the series, you know I am not attracted to manipulations of integrals and series much. Beauty is highly subjective and to me it comes from Number Theory.
@BalarkaSen I'm not really a kid. :-)
@Chris'ssis Yes you are. Everyone is a kid when it comes to mathematics.
How much do we really know?
Nothing.
@BalarkaSen Ah, looking at things like that, yes, you're right.
09:19
@Alyosha What was le Lang's proof?
@Chris'ssis That's what I meant to say : The higher one goes, the beautiful it gets.
But all the same, that doesn't stop us being kids.
09:35
@Chris'ssis $\displaystyle \int_0^1 x \psi^{(1)}(x)\mathrm dx$
By parts looks promising but not very good on that interval
I am asking does it look ok?
@Alizter Does it converge? Maybe you wanted to propose this one $$\displaystyle \int_0^1 x \psi^{(0)}(x)\mathrm dx$$
@Alizter Did you receive the ping?
@BalarkaSen no
@Alizter i think your problem is nontrivial.
the one about realizing groups in real algebraic number fields
@Chris'ssis No it was the first one. It cam up evaluating the cousin of that other integral I showed you. Remove the squares.
09:40
@Alizter You should ask yourself how $\psi^{(1)}(x)$ behaves near $0$. It behaves like $1/x^2$. Done.
Indeed. $\psi^{(1)}(x) \sim 1/x^2$ in that region.
@BalarkaSen True.
@Chris'ssis Ok I will have a look after beach time. Much time to think with sand
@Alizter I just googled and found that it was first proved by Serre.
It's a cool proof.
10:38
Hell, please why $\varphi^c\cap U_i$ is closed please
11:34
Nice gif someone made for me.
in Elaborating Herbert Voss' short answer, Oct 25 '12 at 13:20, by ガベージコレクタ
user image
 
2 hours later…
13:15
Wow, the gif killed the chat.
 
1 hour later…
14:38
Just
posting
lines
to
get
the
gif
animated
off
the
screen
it
is
gone. Phew.
If $H \in Aut(K)$ and $[K:K^H]$ is finite, prove that $[K:K^H]$ has a primitive element.
15:00
@DanielFischer, Let $U=\{u\in \mathbb R^n|\ \| u\|=1\}$. Then for any $x\in U$, $\sum_{j,k=1}^n|x_j||x_k|<n^2$. Why?
I really loathe the rise of animated GIFs. They are useful in some situations, but just terrible in others. @DanielFischer
@r9m did you make some progress on those series? :-)
@Sush $$\sum_{j,k=1}^n \lvert x_j\rvert\,\lvert x_k\rvert = \sum_{j=1}^n\left(\lvert x_j\rvert \sum_{k=1}^n\lvert x_k\rvert\right) \leqslant \sum_{j=1}^n \lvert x_j\rvert \sqrt{n\cdot \lVert x\rVert^2} = \sqrt{n}\sum_{j=1}^n \lvert x_j\rvert \leqslant \sqrt{n}\sqrt{n\lVert x\rVert^2} = n.$$ For $n = 1$, we have equality, for $n > 1$ we have $n < n^2$.
@Sush The intention was probably to use $\lvert x_k\rvert \leqslant 1$ for $x\in U$, however, so each of the $n^2$ terms in the sum is bounded by $1$, hence the sum is $\leqslant n^2$, and we only can have equality if $\lvert x_k\rvert = 1$ for all $k$, but for $n > 1$ that contradicts $\lVert x\rVert = 1$.
15:18
@DanielFischer hello, can you help me in Topology ?
i thunk that $\lbrace U_i\rbrace$ must be closed and pairwise dijoint what do you think ?
16:12
Agreed, @Thomas. In this case, @Jasper is annoying with his .gif. ... Hi, @DanielF.
Hello, @Ted. Quiet weekend before the courses start?
More or less. Heading out in a few for a movie and errands. Hardly see the old guard here any more ....
@Vrouvrou: They are disjoint open sets by construction. But that makes each one closed in their union. Look up connected components.
@Chris'ssis $\displaystyle\int_0^1\left \{ \frac{\{1-x\}}{\{1+x\}}\right \}\mathrm dx=-\gamma$
@Alizter is it?
@Chris'ssis Yes :)
16:24
@Alizter I have some doubts until you show me your way. :-)
@Chris'ssis Ok get it to $\int_0^1\left\{\frac{1-x}{x}\right\}dx$
@Alizter and then you get $-\gamma$? I don't see how.
then $x\mapsto 1/x-1$
@TedShifrin i don't understand they are open but their union is closed??? o.O
@Chris'ssis $\int _0^\infty \frac{\{t\}}{t^2}dt$
16:31
@Alizter maybe you want to start from $1$, not from $0$ :-)
nono @Chris'ssis 1/x-1
@TedShifrin please
@Alizter I think you did something wrong. You need to get something like $$\int _1^\infty \frac{\{t\}}{t^2}dt$$
@Vrouvrou: Think about $X = (0,1)\cup (2,3)\subset\Bbb R$.
We're talking about relative (subspace) topology. $(0,1)$ is both open and closed in $X$.
i don't know this
16:34
Well, work it out for that example :)
@Chris'ssis nope
I get $-\gamma$ in a different way
It's hard to learn Morse theory in Banach spaces when you don't know elementary point-set topology, @Vrouvrou ...
@Alizter and then, after some simpel calcualtions, you get that $$\int _1^\infty \frac{\{t\}}{t^2}dt=1-\gamma$$
@Alizter your initial integral cannot evaluate to a negative value. Why? It was the first thing I noted there, and I concluded that something was wrong.
@TedShifrin I know that $U_i$ is open and $\varphi^c$ is not closed we don't have directly that $\varphi^c\cap U_i$ is closed
also i don't understand your example
why you choose the space $X = (0,1)\cup (2,3)\subset\Bbb R$ what i must do with this
$\varphi^c$ is closed ... but we're talking about subspace (relative) topology for all of this. Well, work out my example. I mean open intervals $(0,1)$ and $(2,3)$, not ordered pairs. I should use your notation from Europe: $]0,1[$ and $]2,3[$. Agh, hard for me to type.
I have to leave ... But I'll check back later ...
16:40
don't understand what i must do
@Chris'ssis OK. However I carry on to that integral but on $0 , \infty$
Which you get with the sub
@Alizter Just think of a simple fact: what happens when having $$\int _0^1 \frac{\{t\}}{t^2}dt$$ ?
Tu dois comprendre pourquoi $]0,1[$ est ouvert et fermé, tous les deux, en $X$. A bientôt :)
then i get $\sum_0 \int_n^{n+1}\frac{t-n}{t^2}dt$
then w=t-n
@Alizter stop a few seconds and read my question.
16:43
@Chris'ssis Then how come I get an answer ?
@Alizter I think you might possibly mixed the 2 definitions of the fractional part - mathworld.wolfram.com/FractionalPart.html
@Chris'ssis Nope only used $x-\lfloor x \rfloor$
@Alizter Check carefully the way you did the substitutions above.
after my substitution swap the series and integral sign to get $\int _0^1 w \psi^{(1)}(w)dw$
@TedShifrin quand vous dites topologie relative vous parlez de la topologie induite ?
16:47
@Alizter I already told you that near $0$ you have that $\psi^{(1)}(w) \sim 1/w^2$. What I mean is that your integral blows up near $0$.
@Chris'ssis I went ahead and found the primitive then took limits
$x\psi(x)-\log\Gamma x$
we get $-\gamma$ as it approaches 1?
then I used the digamma product
@Alizter But you don't care the other integration limit? ;-) You also need to consider the case when $x$ tends to $0$
@Chris'ssis I do hold up
@Alizter Try it again, and again, and again until you do it. It's not hard at all. :-)
to turn it into $x \log x + \sum^{x-1}_{n=0}\psi(1+n/x)-\log\Gamma x$
16:53
@Alizter I think you need to continue from this point $$\int_0^1\left\{\frac{1-x}{x}\right\}dx$$
then as that expression goes to zero it becomes 0
empty sum and interesting limit
@Alyosha You aren't making sense. What is $H$?
@Alizter Still in Turkey?
@BalarkaSen Yes for two weeks
@TedShifrin $]0,1[$ is closed and open in $X=]0,1[\cup ]2,3[$ because $]0,1[=]0,1[\cap X$ and $X$ is closed and open right ?
17:15
Can someone told me if the relative topologie is the induced topology ?
thank you
Anyone explain how to properly subtract integers?
I mean like Subtract integers that can be positive and negative. Otherwise if two integers have the same number then it equals 0 and it be called additive inverse.
@Chris'ssis So what is wrong with the sub 1/x-1?
I need to write out this set by listing it's elements.
$\{ 5a+2b : a,b \in \mathbb{Z} \} = \ ?$
@Khallil $\{0, 2, 5, 7, \cdots\}$
Or never mind
17:19
@BalarkaSen Sorry! Just edited it.
@BalarkaSen Oh, ok. So you just considered $a=0, b=0$, $a=0, b=1$, $a=1, b=0$, $a=b=1$ and so on.
@BalarkaSen Cool. I've not seen one like that before.
I was under the impression that it was a basic exercise in enumeration.
@BalarkaSen Yea, it is. I was wondering if there was a nice way of ordering the elements.
You mean that you have not seen the notation before?
17:23
someone answer me please
@Khallil Well, just use the natural order.
@BalarkaSen In that vein, I guess I could say that $\{ 6a + 2b : a, b \in \mathbb{Z} \} = \{\dots, -6, -3, 0, 3, 6, 9, \dots \}$, right?
@Alizter What is wrong? Well, it's wrong the way you do the replacements there. You should get something like $$\int _0^\infty \frac{\{x\}}{(x+1)^2}dx$$
@Khallil Yeah, sure.
Wait. Where's that $3$ coming from?
????
17:26
@MikeMiller I think I have a plausible analogy at hand for galois theory in groups. Would you care to look at it?
@MikeMiller please the relative homology is the reduced homology please ?
@BalarkaSen Oops! I typed out the correct answer to a different question to do with $\{ 3x : x \in \mathbb{Z} \}$.
@Chris'ssis AH found it thank you very much :)
@Alizter :D
@BalarkaSen Not at the second, but I'd love to in, say, a couple hours.
17:28
@Chris'ssis Can you told me if the relative homology is the reduced homology ?
OK. I'll ping it to you after writing up, you could have a look anytime you want @MikeM.
@BalarkaSen It should be $\{ 6a + 2b : a, b \in \mathbb{Z} \} = \{ \dots, -8, -6, -4, -2, 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, \dots \}$.
@Vrouvrou I'll tell you one day, not now.
@Khallil Missed a $4$.
@BalarkaSen Ah, of course. The case where $a=1, b=-1$. I've edited it in now. Am I missing anything else?
17:31
@Khallil I'll tell you the trick : you are looking for even 2 mod 6 and -2 mod 6 integers.
In general if you have $ax + by$ then you are looking for integers which are $x \bmod y$ and $y \bmod x$
@BalarkaSen By $x \text{ mod } y$ and $y \text{ mod } x$, what do you mean?
(I've not come across that notation before.)
You haven't done modular arithmetic?
@BalarkaSen Ah, ok. I think I'll be learning about it soon anyway.
Then you're stuck with the old-boy style. Oops.
@Khallil Not at all. It's just a short-cut I took.
Learn set theory first.
@Khallil How much set theory have you done?
@BalarkaSen I've basically just started.
I've looked at the union, intersection and expression of sets in different forms (expression:rule form, listing elements).
So I'm just doing a few questions from this text to get familiar with the notation.
It's Book of Proof by Richard Hammack.
17:38
Good. Keep going.
Spivak was getting stale, so I thought I'd focus on some more fundamental stuff like sets.
It was either you or Pedro (or both), that recommended the book to me, so thanks!
It was definitely Pedro.
Hi there. :-)
@BalarkaSen $\{ 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, \dots \} = \{ 2^n : n \in \mathbb{N} \}$ - Does that look good?
@Khallil I recommended book of proof
17:42
@Khallil Yes.
@Alizter To me? My memory's hazy, so thank you! @BalarkaSen - Thanks! Set builder notation is pretty cool!
Yes, it kinda is.
@Khallil
in The Root of Math, Jun 26 at 17:53, by Alizter
@Shisui Oh also If you can get a book on set theory and proving things it can help when proving theorems in modules. I reccomend "Book of Proof" by hammack
@BalarkaSen: Do you know some topology?
@Khallil Since you have looked at intersection and unions, would you mind an exercise?
@BabakS. Almost nothing.
17:44
@BalarkaSen Sure, I wouldn't mind!
@Alizter Oh yea! I tried backtracking the transcript for this room but it was to no avail! Thank you! ^_^
I have plans to read up Armstrong someday. But definitely not today.
@BabakS. Point set topology or algebraic topology?
@DanielFischer: It is easy. Point set theory I think
i know at least one or two things when it comes to algebraic topology. point-set topology looks terrible.
17:47
Okay, I can try, @BabakS.
@DanielFischer: we know that how the mid point of an interval can be found.
@DanielFischer: Now I was asked about the union of two intervals that don't intersect each other.
@DanielFischer: Can we define the mid point in this case?
@Khallil do you know about the complement operation in sets?
@BalarkaSen Nope, I can't say I've heard of it before.
@BabakS. In several ways. If the intervals are $[a,b]$ and $[c,d]$ (or open, half-open, ...) with $b < c$, we can for example define it as $(a+d)/2$. Or we can define it as the centre of mass.
Whether either of these is useful depends on what the goal is.
if A is a set then we call A' = U - A the compliment of A in the universal set U. @Khallil
17:51
@BalarkaSen That seems simple enough. From that we can say that $A \cup A' = U$, where $U$ is the universal set. So the two, in a way, complement each other.
yes, precisely. But also note that the intersection is trivial.
@DanielFischer: Thanks. It made me sure. :-)
@BalarkaSen Trivial, as in unimportant?
trivial as $\varnothing$
get used to such mathematical terms.
$A \cap A' = \{\varnothing\}$
@BalarkaSen That doesn't seem right. Isn't it simply the empty set as opposed to the set containing the empty set?
17:54
@DanielFischer I had great timing this morning. I had written a comment late last night and planned to expand into an answer this morning, but as I was writing the first sentence, 900 answered it :)
@MikeMiller 900 pushups?
*situps
Jesus man, don't be unreasonable
Nobody can do 900 pushups a day
@MikeMiller Well, better than if you had already written half the answer.
@Khallil ?
@DanielFischer True, true.
I just found the timing amusing, especially given the 10 hour gap.
17:56
@BalarkaSen Why'd you write $\{ \varnothing \}$ as opposed to $\varnothing$?
@BalarkaSen $\varnothing \neq \{\varnothing\}$
Ack.
Right, my bad.
Yea, that's what I thought.
@BalarkaSen - It's like comparing an empty box, $\varnothing$, with a box with nothing but an empty box inside, $\{ \varnothing \}$.
@DanielFischer
@MikeMiller Yes. It is somehow funny if one answers - or sets out to answer - a question that hasn't been answered for hours or days, and hey presto, somebody else also writes an answer. Happens surprisingly often.
17:58
@Khallil Most of the time I use {} instead of that slashed apple so I confused.
@BalarkaSen Oh yea. That notation can be confusing. $\{ \} = \varnothing$.
@Vrouvrou Please stop spamming people to look at your question. MSE is a big site; I'm sure someone will look at it eventually.
2
@skullpatrol Greetings. How are you doing? :-)
@BalarkaSen You still haven't shared the question to do with unions and intersections and complements yet!
@Khallil eating. wait a few minutes.
18:04
@BalarkaSen Ah cool, enjoy! I'm going through the set notation questions. They're pretty neat!
Greetings my friend @Chris'ssis I'm fine thanks, how are you doing? :-)
@skullpatrol Not that bad. Listening to some music - youtube.com/watch?v=04F4xlWSFh0 :-)
@Khallil Prove that $(A \cup B)' = A' \cap B'$.
@BalarkaSen I think I'm going to need a Venn diagram to help me visualise the situation.
18:13
Sure. A diagram always helps.
@BalarkaSen Do $A$ and $B$ intersection each other (in terms of a Venn diagram)?
Maybe, maybe not. Claim is that it doesn't affect the result.
@BalarkaSen I thought that'd be the case.
pfffffffffffffff
@BalarkaSen Ok, the diagrams clearly suggest the result is true, so you're not trying to trick me =P
18:19
Nope.
@BalarkaSen I'll get to trying some actual math now. ^_^
you yet have to prove the result, not just demonstrate it.
@BalarkaSen I know! I know! That's why I said I'll get to tying some actual math now. All I've been doing is drawing pretty Venn diagrams =P
Hmmm, it seems difficult to start off. I'm thinking of trying to show that if $x \in (A \cup B)'$, then $x$ must be an element of $A' \cap B'$ and that if $x$ isn't an element of the former, then it can't be an element of the later.
@MikeMiller If G is a group with some subgroup H define Aut_H(G) to be automorphisms of G that fix H. The claim is that if N is a characteristic subgroup of H, a characteristic subgroup of G then there is a short exact sequence 1 --> Aut_N(G) --> Aut_H(G) --> Aut_N(H) --> 1. I'll start with the proof iff you are convinced. (Also, I am a bit hesitating about the short exact part. It might as well be just left-exact)
@BalarkaSen Iff I am not convinced, you mean?
18:26
@MikeMiller No. I meant that I won't bother posting a wrong proof.
Ah
Well, let me fiddle with it for a sec.
What's the third map?
@MikeMiller Take the restriction map Aut(G) --> Aut(H) and restrict the domain to Aut_N(G).
This is well-defined as H is char to G.
But then your map is trivial. If Aut_H(G) --> Aut_N(H) is just the restriction, then you're sending autos that fix H to autos of H... but they're fixing all of H already
so you're just sending them all to the identity
@MikeMiller Wait I messed up. 1 --> Aut_H(G) --> Aut_N(G) --> Aut_N(H) --> 1 is the correct sequence.
Is that better?
Sure, now the third map makes sense :) Let me think
18:39
@Chris'ssis Much better thanks :) I get $1-\gamma$ as should be
Also, the second one makes sense. I missed that it was nonsense at first :P
@Alizter Glad you got that. :-) Now you may arrange your proof to be clear to you.
@BalarkaSen Surely it's not exact at the end, since the last map is an injection!
@Chris'ssis The series were no problems this time. Just small mistakes :)
last map that matters
18:42
@MikeMiller Right. So it's just 1 --> Aut_H(G) --> Aut_N(G) --> Aut_N(H).
@BalarkaSen So did Seres have the group?
@Alizter Work hard, never stop. :-)
@Alizter Seres?
@BalarkaSen Unfortunately, it's only exact at the start. The map you have on the far right is an injection, so it has trivial kernel. But the image of Aut_H(G) isn't trivial.
@BalarkaSen I mucked up some authors name didn't I?
18:43
@Alizter Serre, you idiot, Serre.
Surely you don't believe that such a group exists? Serre proved that all groups are realizable as galois groups of real algebraic number fields, assuming inverse galois.
@BalarkaSen I have trouble remembering names I am sorry.
@BalarkaSen Ah that is interesting.
@MikeMiller Yes, but 1 --> Aut_H(G) --> Aut_N(G) --> Aut_N(H) is good enough for me. I always confuse up the right-exactness part.
@BalarkaSen You misunderstand me, I think. That's not exact. The only exact thing in that is 1 --> Aut_H(G) --> Aut_N(G).
The map Aut_N(G) --> Aut_N(H) is an injection; which agrees with im(Aut_H(G)) only when Aut_H(G) is trivial.
Aut_N(G) --> Aut_N(H) is definitely not an injection. The kernel is Aut_H(G).
Or otherwise I don't see it.
Oh! You're absolutely right that it's not an injection, sorry.
Yup, you're correct.
18:48
Thank goodness.
@MikeMiller Ayo I have a dumb question about polynomial interpolation.
We always talk about working over finite field, is that necessary?
I have no idea what you're talking about!
18:57
Yeah, sorry.
Do you know like, Shamir's Secret Sharing?
I don't!
Sorry. :( Thanks.
If you explain precisely what you mean I might be able to answer, maybe, but google says this is cryptography, which I'm far from an expert in
It's cool, it's really basic, but I think my question is just dumb.
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