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10:00 PM
@Charlie life goes on...
 
@Charlie: You calling me a no one?
 
No it is me who is the nobody.
 
Well, @skull, you've always been a nobody.
 
@TedShifrin you weren't here in the old times
 
How long has this been around, @Charlie?
 
10:02 PM
I could have been a contender.
 
@TedShifrin 2 years
 
Oh, well, I've been here well over a year. @Pedro dragged me here one evening.
 
@G.T.R Tell me if you find a solution to the inequation - i'm always interested in alternative ways
 
@TedShifrin I cannot recall.
 
there are 2 users with whom i have contact on a daily basis
 
10:03 PM
Just realised that i had my safe group option on the whole time. When i generated a group it would check the axioms and also check for albelian.... turned it off much faster however the cayley table for $S_7$ has $7!^2$ elements so its gonna be a while
 
Heya, mr @Pedro ... Yeah, you were working on implicit function theorem stuff with Apostol at the time.
 
@TedShifrin Ah. Well now I think I can almost recall the proof of the Inverse Functino theorem off the top of my head.
 
@skullpatrol do you agree that it got very different from what it used to be?
 
@Charlie absolutely yes
 
10:04 PM
In those days, the chat room was far emptier than these days.
But it was mostly math.
Now we have frivolous conversations.
 
@skullpatrol thanks. good ol times
I learned a lot
 
we should start having frivolous conversations about math
 
@Mike, most of ours are!
 
@MikeMiller OK. Let's have one.
 
LOL ... glad to see @Pedro in a good mood.
 
10:08 PM
Estimated computation time for $S_7$ is 1 hour 23 minutes
 
aggggh @ Alizter
But, honestly, isn't this getting tiresome?
 
and thats just storing the cayley table into memory
then I have to color a bitmap
 
@Alizter Why is it so long ?
 
I'm tired of it, @Ted
 
which "it" @Mike?
 
10:09 PM
@Hippalectryon $7!^2$ is a pretty large number.
 
Aw yeah :3 i forgot how fast the S_n grow
 
indeed @Hippa @Alizter
 
"it is common for people first starting to grapple with computers to make large-scale computations of things they might have done on a smaller scale by hand. They might print out a table of the first 10,000 primes, only to find that their printout isn't something they really wanted after all. They discover by this kind of experience that what they really wanted is usually not some collection of "answers" - what they want is understanding."
 
oh, that "it"
 
We want some cool graph :D
 
10:11 PM
@MikeMiller Yeah I just wanted to see the fractal nature of lexicographical Cayley diagrams for $S_n$.
It is an overnight computation no doubt with many improvements to make it faster however I think that I will see where it goes then we can judge.
 
Maybe @Alizter will assassinate his computer just like @Hippa has.
 
@Alizter so you don't want understanding?
 
97°C
 
Put it to bed, @Hippa, seriously.
I expect not to see you for weeks.
 
10:13 PM
It's been like that for a year+
 
water will boil soon
 
The only alloying things is the smell of burnt plastic and my burnt hands :c
 
My computer is at 111ºF = 44 ºC.
 
cool like you
 
um, yeah, right @skull
 
10:15 PM
But i'm not hot :D
Unlike my laptop
 
We don't know that, @Hippa
 
I can assure you that
 
@skullpatrol I do want understanding. I can't have it all at once.
 
r9m
@Hippalectryon Its best stay away from an overheating laptop imo ... it may be dangerous :o
 
I need to spend some more time in bed with $S_n$ and by that I mean read in bed.
 
10:15 PM
@Alizter very true...
 
@r9m Are you American ?
'Get away from this apple ! it might be a bomb attack'
xD
 
what?
 
@Alizter ...reading is good.
 
Does anyone read any more?
 
@TedShifrin Yes. But only when they need to.
 
10:17 PM
Not really
 
The pleasure of books has gone by the wayside ...
 
I do
 
Personally I find it easier to read maths from a book.
 
r9m
@Hippalectryon Thats not the point ... prolonged skin contact with overheated stuff can injure you :P
 
and I didn't mean math(s) books
 
10:18 PM
Kindle
 
Yuck.
 
still do
 
@r9m i'm already badly hit by eczema
 
I've had that most of my life, @Hippa
separate issue
 
Books. Turn the page, smell the paper, caress it.
12
 
10:19 PM
raises 6 eyebrows @DanielF
 
It looks like i've been removing my skin manually on my fingers and palms :/
 
@DanielFischer I mostly read maths anyway so it doesn't matter too much
 
the computer is not helping that, @hippa, quite seriously
 
@TedShifrin Reading is serious business.
2
 
@Ted See a doctor
 
10:19 PM
I've seen way more than my share, @Mike, don't worry ... that's the least of my problems
 
@TedShifrin i'm not keeping my hands under my laptop, i take care lol i don't wanna become bacon
 
Six eyebrows is a very bad sign
 
do you use cortisone salves, @Hippa? That has always helped me.
Incurable @Mike.
 
I try to avoid cortisone etc as much as possible
 
I use over-the-counter salve, @Hippa ... in small quantities. It's helped since I was younger than you.
 
10:21 PM
@Hippalectryon Give your computer a rest do some work. Go outside. Eat a bagel. Chase cats. Run around like a maniac. Talk to random people. Watch TV. Annoy your neighbors. Sleep. The list goes on.
 
I only have eczema during summer, and only since like two years
 
yup, sweating makes it worse ...
 
@Alizter Outside ? It's 00:21 am
 
OK ... dinnertime for me. I'll let @Hippa explode on his own.
 
I don't have rats here, only bugs and cockroachs
 
10:22 PM
@Hippalectryon emphisis on the maniac
 
So @Hippa?
 
@Alizter I don't have a TV
 
Perfect weather for a walk.
 
@Hippalectryon Do you have a box?
 
10:22 PM
a box ?
 
Like a cardboard one
 
Nope i used all of them this week end to bring back all I could home
 
Cut out the front and make puppet news
 
Classes ends on friday or so
 
Tonight's News: class ends on friday or so
So left hand do you have more on the story?
Left hand: Yes, it looks pretty bad out here. It ends.
Back to your right hand.
Thanks lefty!
I need sleep.
 
10:24 PM
Indeed.
 
* left hand: look at me i look necrosed
* right hand : aw my eczema is even worse
The end
 
Bonne nuit, @Hippa. Laisse le computer dormir.
 
Thank you for putting an end to it.
 
Two hands : chapter two
@skullpatrol :P
 
24.25% done :)
faster now ?
 
10:27 PM
O.o
 
Ugh that $\Bbb R^2\subset \Bbb R^5$ question @Ted... Must be a better way than Tietze.
 
@Charlie they're a creative bunch :-)
 
yes in metric spaces you can get around Tietze fairly easily
 
@skullpatrol D:
 
@Charlie O-:
 
10:29 PM
@skullpatrol almost hanging myself
 
@Charlie take a short break
give yourself some time to think about it
 
@skullpatrol i can't take it anymore you know
i rarely find it pleasant
 
I should think of a way to recycle this heat
 
@Charlie do something else for awhile
 
@skullpatrol :´(
i wanna get rid of it
 
10:34 PM
it won't just go away
 
Cook.
 
@Charlie it will be there when you come back to it
 
sigh
 
Cook an egg on my laptop
 
@Charlie how's your mom?
 
10:36 PM
@skullpatrol she's fine, i think, better
 
i just can't stand it anymore.
thinking mad on sylows is mad.
 
is there some canonical way to "continuify" a finite group action / representation?
 
@Charlie good, good
 
@AlexanderGruber Eh, use Lie groups acting on themselves.
=P
 
@skullpatrol :)
 
10:38 PM
how is it not automatically continuous, @AlexanderG?
 
@Charlie :D
 
what's bugging you, @Charlie?
@Hippalectryon 100 degrees already?
 
@BalarkaSen my university
 
what i mean is, like, say you've got $$\rho(g)=\left(\begin{array}{cc}0&1\\1 & 0\end{array}\right)$$
 
@Charlie of course. what else can it be...
 
10:39 PM
let's not say that
 
you could do something like $$\rho(g)=\left(\begin{array}{cc}0&t\\t & 0\end{array}\right)$$ from $t=0$ to $t=1$
 
@BalarkaSen 98°C
 
i don't know exactly what i'm going for, but do see what i'm saying sort of?
 
@AlexanderGruber Sure, try $\rm{GL}_2(\Bbb C)$ with a presentation on itself.
 
oh I see
that reminds me of some completely irrelevant work some professors here are doing
 
10:41 PM
@BalarkaSen yeah
 
@MikeMiller can't be worse than what mine here is doing.
 
there are certain combinatorial moves one can do to young tableaux or something, and they were looking at ways to realize these as paths between orthogonal matrices
they gave a great talk I forgot all of
 
I find myself wanting to solve XA = B (X unknown matrix) A and B are 4x4 Coordinate systems
 
@MikeMiller yeah that sounds kind of like what i'm looking for
 
I rarely find myself in that position, fortunately
 
10:43 PM
@MikeMiller interesting.
 
@alexanderG I bet it wouldn't be very helpful for you but I thought I'd make a shoutout
 
@MikeMiller do you know which professors?
i could look up papers and get ideas
 
i am seeing what you're doing, @alexander. you're looking for a way to find a "right" smoothness for some representation of a discrete group on GL2(C).
 
no papers yet, but I can get you the talk if you want. I think it was very specific to the situation. names were Glenn Appleby and Tamsen McGinley
actually I bet if you sent an email to prof. McGinley she'd be glad to send you the PowerPoint
 
Bye @Charlie see ya later pal
 
10:46 PM
@skullpatrol bye skull seeya
 
@MikeMiller yeah i think i'll do that
 
the talk was given at BAD math day, if you want to put context in the email
 
I've got a problem for you @MikeM
 
Bay Area discrete math day
 
B * A^-1 works in my tests but I'm pretty sure it is wrong
 
10:48 PM
@BalarkaSen i'm looking for a way to smooth out a group action (on some vector space) in general
 
@AlexanderGruber there are infinitely many ways to mollify. you need the "right" unique way to do it.
and that makes all the difference.
 
doesn't have to be optimal or anything, just seems like there ought to be some obvious choice, like how you can connect $A$ and $B$ by $A+(B-A)t$ from $t=0$ to $1$
 
@JohanLarsson Yes, if A is invertible multiply by A^{-1} on both sides of the equation.
 
@BalarkaSen I have a lot of problems already
I can forward yours to my therapist
 
@MikeMiller OK. Insomnia is one of my main problems.
Ugghhh, what the.
I am talking about math, @MikeM.
 
10:50 PM
chamomile tea
 
@MikeMiller What's that?
 
@PedroTamaroff Is it always true? Thought there was something like a right inverse
 
to help with your insomnia
it does wonders for mine
 
never heard of chamomile. what is it?
 
A flower
chamomile
 
10:52 PM
a quite tasty flower
 
aha. probably can't be found in where i live.
 
chamomile tea is mass-produced and mass-exported, I would be somewhat surprised if they didn't sell it in India
but again I have no concept of the economics of foreign import/export trade
 
probably. i have to look for it.
 
ok maybe what i'm looking for is more along these lines
 
10:54 PM
@TedShifrin !!! In my hands, I now own William Fulton's copy of Chern's book
 
@AlexanderGruber so what you are looking at is more along the line "ok maybe what i'm looking for is more along these lines"?
 
he has some massive lines of cocaine in front of him
3
 
@PedroTamaroff Need serious help on sylow stuffs.
 
maybe it is like equivalence classes of representation elements under homeomorphism
or something like that
is that an obvious question?
 
@AlexanderGruber representation elts under homeomorphisms?
 
10:59 PM
sure I guess
 
what does that suppose to mean?
how does representation elts interact with some homeo?
 
Yes
 
@BalarkaSen OK.
 
@MikeM I have always wondered whether homeomorphism and homeopathy are diffeomorphic.
@PedroTamaroff I want to prove that nonabelian groups of order $216$ are not simple. I am trying a pretty convoluted way by counting elts of sylow subgroups and intersections, but i guess it's not the right way to go about this. can you hint (not revealing the answer?)
 
@BalarkaSen Hmm... $216=108\times 2= 54\times 2^2=3^3\times 2^3$, yes?
 
11:03 PM
No.
yes.
 
So we have $n_3=1\mod 3$ Sylows and $n_3\mid 8$. This means $n_3=1,2,4,8$.
 
No.
$n_3 = 1, 4$
 
Well, if you give me some time to continue....
 
0
Q: Why $\epsilon$ is always small?

user159782Whoever invented this, he must be not aware of democracy. I want $\epsilon$ to be large not small. Also, why $\theta$ is an angle?

 
Now it cannot be $2$ nor $8$.
 
11:04 PM
@BalarkaSen help me flesh it out... say $\rho$ is a representation and $\rho(g)[V]$ is homeomorphic to $\rho(h)[V]$
 
@PedroTamaroff OK. shuts up
 
@BalarkaSen So $n_3=1$ or $4$.
If $n_3=1$; we're done. So we may assume that $n_3=4$.
 
@Pedro right.
 
@G.T.R That question -_-
 
So we have four subgroups $S_1,S_2,S_3,S_4$ of order $27$.
 
11:07 PM
Yuppers.
 
someone favorited that? no way
 
@BalarkaSen I suppose you already did this, so what ideas did you try?
(So that I don't repeat things)
 
@PedroTamaroff In short, I tried to compute how many 2-sylows there are by computing the intersections of 3-sylows.
but as i said, more computations than fruitful results.
 
In spanish $\theta$ reads 'teta' and it means tit. — Git Gud 35 secs ago
????????
 
@AlexanderGruber looks like you want to "continuify" a (wlog unitary) linear transformation A. To do this, diagonalize as $A=U{\rm diag}(e^{i\theta_1},\cdots,e^{i\theta_n})U^{-1}$, then you can write $A_t:=U{\rm diag}(e^{i\theta_1 t},\cdots,e^{i\theta_n t})U^{-1}$
 
11:09 PM
@Hippalectryon Yeah, true.
 
@blue Continuifying is not unique though.
 
@BalarkaSen Err... what about this. Suppose there are $4$ Sylow subgroups. Then we have a representation $\eta:G\to S_4$, that is nontrivial, so $\ker \eta\lhd G$ must be trivial, so $G$ embeds into a group of order $4!=24$ which is impossible?
@blue plz check $\uparrow$
 
@PedroTamaroff i don't think so.
the rep isn't faithful.
 
@BalarkaSen Why not?
We're assuming $G$ is simple.
 
@PedroTamaroff Well, it can be, but you have to prove that it's faithful.
 
11:13 PM
@BalarkaSen pedro never said the action was faithful
 
@blue if not, then $G$ doesn't embed in $S_4$
 
oh, ker must be trivial, yeah I guess he did
but that follows from the hypothesis of simplicity
 
Right.
 
@BalarkaSen It is faithful since the group is assumed simple.
So there.
 
Silly me.
@Pedro thanks very much.
 
11:15 PM
@TedShifrin wb
 
@BalarkaSen No problem.
 
@Balarka, you're banished!
 
@TedShifrin Well, in my defence I am taking math help.
 
Tanx @skull
 
@BalarkaSen The prosecution does not rest.
 
11:17 PM
YAY I HIT 100°C >8C
 
@Ted Did you get my ping?
 
Just a second ago. Bill Fulton's copy? So I should sell my library on Amazon?
 
Hates hard copies
 
I have the first edition of that book and two copies of second.
 
@BalarkaSen ignores that blasphemous comment
 
11:20 PM
@TedShifrin do you get a lot of books for free?
 
@Ted Hmm... No, I'd rather like to buy them from you firsthand. Anyway, he must have sold it to some reseller, because I got it from some small group that specializes in out-of-print texts
 
@Balarka: Get out and don't come back til next Tuesday.
 
But it's got his name and address stamped in there, and FULTON handwritten.
 
@PedroTamaroff thinks about ignoring Pedro but stops : who will help with group theory then?
 
11:22 PM
Some, @Bananarama, but I've bought a lot in the last 40 years.
 
thinks buying books are unnecessary
 
So are grammar
 
Have you tried hard copies?
 
Yes, master, @skullpatrol hard copies bought in mistress' old house, oh, what will her mistress say...
 
11:26 PM
@Hippa: we've been telling you this for 24 hours.
 
You keep joking about this like it's bad advice to turn it off
 
Ok i'm gonna let it sleep for some hours then ;-)
 
when really the opposite is true
you're being an idiot by keeping it on
 
I have got a problem for you, @PedroTamaroff
 
I gotta wake up in 6 hours
 
11:26 PM
pardon the language, but turn your computer off
 
@MikeMiller Then i can't use it anymore
 
It's going to be seriously dead. Like driving a car with a blown head gasket.
 
It's been that way for a year+
 
@blue that sounds right.
 
@Hippalectryon does it work?
 
11:27 PM
does that work for infinite dimensional vector spaces?
 
OK, if Pedro doesn't want it @Alexander can have it.
 
(countable i mean)
 
@Alex!
 
@BalarkaSen It still works, but not as well as it used to. And my table smells burnt plastic. And is cracked by the heat
 
11:28 PM
generally, it's a better idea not to start a damn fire than it is to use a computer
 
@BalarkaSen OK.
 
@TedShifrin you probably will understand the thing i'm trying to do
 
@PedroTamaroff It's the Feit-Thompson theorem.
 
Seeya
 
@BalarkaSen Ah...?
What's with it?
 
11:29 PM
Probably not @Alex: What?
 
@PedroTamaroff It is the problem.
=P
 
But that is already solved! ;)
 
I am kidding.
 
$S_7$ is finished!
 
@PedroTamaroff Have you finished reading about simplicity of $PSL$ groups?
 
11:30 PM
@TedShifrin it's a rough idea i'm trying to develop. still very rough.
i'm trying to see if there is some way to compare group elements in a finite group in a continuous / topology-like sort of way
 
I think I am having trouble uploading. It is a large file.
 
OK, it's 5 PM. I am going to eat some stuffs and really going to keep myself off from chat for a week or so.
 
@BalarkaSen No, not really.
 
probably in representation form.
 
I am sirius.
 
11:32 PM
Isn't the topology on a finite top group always trivial?
 
@TedShifrin yeah... which is what i'm trying to "fix" by "continuifying" the elements in some sort of canonical way
 
Still, you're looking at finite subgroups of $GL(n)$ @Alex
 
blue's idea here seems to be sort of like what i'm wanting
like i said this is really rough and the answer might end up being "there's no way to make this work"
 
There's no continuity. It's a discrete subgroup.
But keep me posted ;)
 
I found a website that lets me upload my 25 mb bitmap :)
 
11:53 PM
Hey everyone!
Anyone have an idea on this problem: math.stackexchange.com/questions/844197/…?
Also @AlexanderGruber nice new avatar.
And @TedShifrin, have you been to Berkeley yet?
 
Hi, @Anthony ... No, July 28 for a few days ...
 
Ah!
I see.
 
Hello there, mathematicians.
 
Do you?
 
Do I? Have an idea?
@TedShifrin if you're talking about the problem, I have a poorly written up solution that they gave me in the class. They reasoned that the solution was an exponential, but they didn't really prove why.
 
11:58 PM
No, you said "I see" :)
 
Ah.
 
No, I wasn't talking about the problem ....
 
I suppose I don't see.
Maybe I do?
 
Hi Simon
 

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