« first day (1609 days earlier)      last day (3427 days later) » 

10:00 PM
I wonder if I should stick to altop for a while or do comalg simultaneously.
 
One guy graduated and went to Wall St. with a 300k starting salary. I think a lot of people kept their eyes on the door after that.
 
How difficult is it to study other things in Academia?
 
i guess it's bad to do two things at once.
 
I'm not sure I could ever do finance and be happy.
 
You can always study other things in your free time, @Alizter, but it's unlikely you're going to be doing them on a day-to-day basis.
 
10:00 PM
@BalarkaSen Not always
 
I could absolutely go the MBA track, though.
I'd still feel dirty if I did that.
 
No, I find many of my options reprehensible. Finance, military/government work...
 
Those bridges across fields of mathematics appear because people have studied either side no?
 
@Mike: I merely mentioned Ronnie Wells's Complex Manifolds book.
 
Huy
@DonLarynx: I still don't think you need the fancy expressions you used earlier for this problem. You just have to compute the digits and the resulting cycle length.
 
10:02 PM
OK, that's the one. I remembered Wells but didn't know more.
Don't G&H prove it too?
 
Yeah, I think they have Warner's proof, @Mike.
 
I see.
 
@TedShifrin what're your opinion about studying two things at once?
would i mess up?
 
I've been known to study three things at once, @Balarka.
 
I supose Wells's is in the "Elliptic Operator Theory" chapter?
 
10:03 PM
Don't forget you have schoolwork to do, too!
 
I admit I don't intend to read the whole book for this.
 
huge difference between you and i, @Ted
 
i = me, @Balarka
Most likely, @Mike, although he does pseudodifferential operators.
 
"In Sec. 2 we shall discuss the basic structure of differential operators and their symbols, and in Sec. 3 this same structure is generalized to the context of pseudodifferential operators. Using the results in the first three sections, we shall present in Sec. 4 the fundamental theorems concerning homogeneous solutions of elliptic differential equations on a manifold."
Yes, I guess that's it.
 
i actually want to study comalg and altop simultaneously @Ted.
not a good idea, i guess
 
10:05 PM
Yuppers @Mike
 
Wow, so all they need is self-adjointness. I wonder if Warner's can be traced through that cleanly so that it doesn't use more than that.
 
Are you planning to get to homology and some tensor product stuff, @Balarka?
 
If you are a student, I would recommend not studying multiple things, but rather adding communication skills, including mathematical writing, and networking as points of emphasis. They will serve you better down the road.
 
no @Ted, not really.
 
So at what point did you jump ship, @Arkamis?
 
10:06 PM
Pity ...
 
do you think i should, @Ted?
 
@Arkamis: We have a bunch of young teenagers here :)
 
@DonLarynx I caught up with you.
 
writing is of no use to me @Arkamis
 
Yes, @Balarka. I find it far more interesting than covering spaces. But I know your Galois obsession.
@Balarka: If you intend to become a serious mathematician, you will need to learn to write ... preferably well.
 
10:07 PM
I plan to study homology at some point. Homology, not homological algebra.
 
@MikeMiller When i was an undergrad, I ended up being forced into a three-year leave of absence before my final semester, partly due to medical reasons, and partly due to the incompetency of my university's administration.
 
If you're doing commutative algebra, you're on the fringes of homological algebra.
 
Well, better get the motivation first.
 
In that time off, I discovered that I hated being broke, and that academia is actually quite full of a lot of bullshit and wasn't the path for me.
 
That's why I want to do altop and comalg side by side
one provides motivation for another
 
10:08 PM
only if you're doing homology/cohomology, @Balarka
BTW, @Balarka, you should look at Fulton's Algebraic Topology. It's very much motivated by algebraic geometry and Riemann surfaces.
 
well i have barely started Hatcher. will study those chapters too at some point.
 
Now that I'm on the other side of the fence, I can see behind the curtain (for the sake of mixing metaphors), and I am quite glad I didn't follow through. I am now working on my graduate degrees on my own time (and my own dollar).
 
@Arkamis: I'm fortunate. I made it through academia without being broke. But I live in a cheaper place (for now).
 
I really enjoy some of the problems
 
@Ted i will. i have totally said i won't do schemes without knowing how to draw riemann surfaces to my prof.
 
10:09 PM
Ah, yes, being broke is a shame.
 
i hate hate hate abstractness without motivation
 
I'm going through that right now.
 
Anyhow, Fulton's book is unusual but quite charming, @Balarka.
 
I subcontract a lot of work to university professors. I find it remarkable that they can, with a straight face, charge \$300/hour for work they farm out to grad students at an effective rate of \$4/hour.
 
Huy
@MikeMiller: You can live on my couch. But you'll have to do the cooking, and cleaning.
 
10:10 PM
You've never known anything else, @Mike ... other than having parents :P
 
ok, but i need comalg first, won't I, @Ted?
 
He hasn't learned to cook yet, @Huy :D
no, no, @Balarka
 
Huy
@Arkamis: As long as there's students who take the job, they will keep doing it.
 
oh?
 
what is comalg?
oh commutative algebra?
 
Huy
10:10 PM
@TedShifrin: My girlfriend put a cookbook in my kitchen. He may use it.
 
commutative algebra
 
just the basics of modules and tensor product (eventually), which you already know
 
yes
 
I think I'm going to be single on New Years unless I get shitfaced.
 
What sort of cookbook, @Huy?
 
10:11 PM
Well, @Ted, I have the ability to go broker at a casino tomorrow. Wish me luck.
 
@DonLarynx Did you hear?
 
@Jorge yes?
I didn't
 
We both have 26 problems
 
@DonLarynx If you get shitfaced, will you no longer be single?
 
Shit
 
10:11 PM
faced
 
@Mike, serves you right for looking down on us "old gay men"
 
Shitfaced
 
I'm not sure it works as a sufficient condition, @Don
 
@MikeMiller What casino, and what's your game?
 
@Arkamis By modus tollens...Correct
 
Huy
10:12 PM
@TedShifrin: It's called "Tiptopf" and is apparently very popular in Switzerland, used in basic cooking courses. I've never heard of it before she mentioned it and apparently all of my friends have it, too. Just I didn't.
 
Das kenne ich nicht, @Huy.
 
The ones that let me keep playing longer, @Arkamis, so blackjack when I want to lose some money and poker when I want to win some.
 
@Ted Me and Jasper both have limiting beliefs, mine is I must get drunk to get laid.
 
@MikeMiller Ah, craps is my game. It usually treats me well.
 
So I've seen, @Don
 
10:13 PM
@Huy Are you telling me there is such a thing as popular coocbooks in switzerland?
 
@Ted you know Curt McMullen?
 
Not personally, @Balarka
 
Huy
@JorgeFernández: I wasn't telling you in particular.
 
that guy is natural at giving lectures
 
It's nowhere special, it's a nearby Indian casino.
 
10:13 PM
@TedShifrin ah. well my prof's a student of his.
 
Some Fields medalists are pretty good, @Balarka
 
@Huy Yeah, that part was obviously clear.
 
Huy
@MikeMiller: I always lose at poker. I have really bad luck at card games.
 
Mohegan Sun usually treats me well, when I am in that neighborhood.
 
well, @Balarka, my adviser is equally famous, so it's a stand-off :P
 
10:14 PM
@TedShifrin Er, well. My prof says in those days they used to laugh about him getting fields medal.
 
CT, it says? I'm in southern California.
 
He started lobbying to get fields
 
That's pretty much the opposite side of the country.
 
@BalarkaSen who is your proffesor?
 
and even wrote up an article on how to win a fields medal (:P)
 
Huy
10:15 PM
@JorgeFernández: That book I mentioned (Tiptopf) is the top-selling teaching aid in Switzerland. (note that this is not limited to cookbooks, but also textbooks in mathematics etc.)
 
@Huy Poker is about statistics as much as it is gauging the other players. The key is that most players don't know that.
 
I quite liked the recent article in Notices on the probability of winning a fields medal
 
wow, and a lot of people who are not cooks have it?
 
Huy
@Arkamis: On a different note: In what country do they pay grad students $4/h (for assisting jobs, I assume)?
 
This guy, @Jorge
 
Huy
10:16 PM
@MikeMiller: I know that, but I keep getting bad cards in real life. When I play online, with several sessions at the same time, I'm much better.
 
It had a line that said something like, "the probabiilty of winning a fields medal is about 1:8500, much larger than dying in a plane crash (1:1500000), which is a real thing people worry about, but much smaller than being considered a nerd (1:1.1 for mathematicians)"
 
Casson is his first advisor, McMullen is second which apparently isn't mentioned at the geneology page.
 
Hey, @Balarka, that says Andrew Casson was his adviser. I know him for real.
 
Well, you're getting bad cards there too, @Huy. It's just that you're seeing more. Of course you know this, and I am preChing to the choir.
 
Huy
@JorgeFernández: Yes. In primary school, there is some sort of course where you learn things like cooking. For that course, most students will buy that book. We didn't, because our teacher just told us the recipes.
 
10:17 PM
Yes, Casson was his advisor @Ted
 
Well, tell your prof to go in there and email them a change, @Balarka.
 
@Huy Effective rate. Considering that the average fellowship is like \$23,000, and that the average grad student puts in much more work than the standard 40 hr/week...
 
Huy
@MikeMiller: Yes, but it is rather unfortunate that in real life, I'm getting bad luck a lot. I enjoy playing it in real life much more.
 
Yes I guess I will
 
It comes out to somewhere between 4 and 6 bucks an hour.
 
10:17 PM
<--- the world's worst poker player
 
@Ted You know Casson?
 
Huy
@Arkamis: What kind of job pays you $23k? What do the grad students have to do?
 
He was at Berkeley pretty much 20 years after me, @Balarka
yes, @Balarka
 
oh cool
 
Being a grad student, @Huy. That's about my salary.
 
10:18 PM
The grad students have to be grad students. Teaching assistants, research assistants, metric shitloads of homework
 
That's a pretty good salary, actually, @Mike.
 
I know, @Ted. I'm active in the union so I know what other people get.
 
Huy
@MikeMiller: Is being a grad student = working on their PhD? I thought MSc is also considered grad school, and during MSc, over here, we don't have to do additional work. During PhD, we do.
 
Of course, being in LA takes something out of it.
 
Most of our MA students don't get support, @Huy, as a rule.
 
10:19 PM
And try as they might, it is not reasonable to include tuition in their compensation. It's imaginary money that the university never holds... and in fact never has to account for in its holdings.
 
correct, @Mike ... I'm beginning to ponder how stupid it'll be to give up a paid-for house to move to California rents.
 
Huy
@TedShifrin: MSc students here don't get support either, unless they apply for a job at the university.
 
@Ted irrelevant : prof is probably the only(?) mathematician who is also a monk :P
 
@Huy I'm required to do coursework and TA. I am not writing a thesis right now. But I guarantee I work in some sense or another much more than 40 a week.
 
Huy
@MikeMiller: And are you still doing your MSc or already your PhD?
 
10:20 PM
@Huy Most math grad students implicitly are PhD track. The MS/MA is given as a consolation along the way, typically.
 
I didn't get an MSc. I am a PhD student. (In the US, the former is not a requirement to gain admission to PhD programs. That's good, because Masters programs rarely come with monetary support.
)
 
he became a monk (officially) after finishing his education at Berkeley @Ted
Weird, huh?
 
Huy
@MikeMiller: Is 40h per week considered 100% workload in your country?
 
monks shouldn't be smacking you, @Balarka
nuns, maybe
 
@Huy That is the standard, yes.
 
Huy
10:22 PM
@Arkamis: You should all just come to Switzerland, then.
 
well he only just bashes me @Ted. the hell he does to his students.
 
In terms of TAships, yes. (Nobody works over 50% = 20h). Nobody quantifies the amount of time we work on other stuff.
 
@TedShifrin @BalarkaSen @Alizter Let $A=\{(0,0), (1, 0)\}$. $a \in \mathbb{R}$ is contructible if the point $(a,0)$ is constructible from $A$.

We take the line $(\epsilon)$ that goes through the points $P_1=(0,0)$ and $P_2=(1,0)$, which is constructible.

We take the circle with center $(0,0)$ and radius $1$ and the circle with center $(1,0)$ and radius $1$.

The intersection points of the circles are $P$ and $Q$.

We take the line $P_1P$ and $P_2P$.

We take the line $PQ$ that goes through the line $(\epsilon)$ at the point $M$.
 
Huy
@MikeMiller: Well if you officially only work 50%, $23k isn't that bad, imo.
 
What's $M$, @MaryStar? I thought you would have already proved in your book or your class that constructible numbers form a field $F$ with the property that $a\in F\implies \sqrt{|a|}\in F$.
 
10:25 PM
The remainder is implicit work. You're expected to do it, even if it's not part of your "employment agreement." Your adviser has more or less unilateral say over your advancement. Therefore, keeping him/her happy is critical, and requires an un-enumerable amount of hours.
 
Huy
Dear god, not the word unilateral again.
 
lol
 
oh, please not that
 
@Huy Not funny, lol.
 
I'm unilaterally ending the conversation.
 
Huy
10:26 PM
@Arkamis: That's really unfair of your advisers then. I have never heard of such a case over here, most grad students are fairly happy.
 
Sounds more like students in the lab sciences, @Huy.
 
Huy
@TedShifrin: I only know two non-maths students doing their PhD, the rest (>10) is maths.
 
I think people are happy here, too. The point being made is that the salaries are expected to be your living wage. You are working 50% time on the books, but it's not possible in practice to have a side job. A couple folks tutor.
But not for much time.
 
Our of respect for our academics, I will refrain from further criticism of the system. But suffice to say, I find it quite broken at the moment, and unfair to almost everyone involved but the administrators and a handful of faculty.
 
we should create a mathematics academia chatroom for all this, y'all
 
10:30 PM
Most academics I know are plenty happy to levy criticism. The canonical criticisms are more applicable to lab sciences than math, though, I think.
 
Huy
@MikeMiller: I don't know about living wages, but most PhD students over here work about 50% at uni too, and earn a bit more than you do, but the living costs over here are vastly higher, afaik.
 
@Arkamis: I don't know where you were in school, but I was never so unhappy as a graduate student, and I don't think our graduate students feel put upon as you did.
 
Do you work outside of uni?
 
Huy
@MikeMiller: At more than 50%, yes.
 
It's like the old joke: a university president calls all his deans together and announces that he has to cut funding. A chorus of protests erupts, and the president, exasperated, says, "why can't you all be more like the math department? All they need is pencils, paper, and trash cans. Better yet, be more like the philosophy department. All they need are pencils and paper!"
 
Huy
10:31 PM
@MikeMiller: Oh, no. Outside of uni only 30%.
 
Then that's the key difference. We don't.
 
Huy
@MikeMiller: PhD students over here usually don't either.
 
@TedShifrin We have proven that if $a$ is a constructible number, then $\sqrt{a}$ is also constructible. We also know that $\frac{1}{a}$ is constructible and when $a,b$ are constructible then $a \cdot b$ is constructible.

So, $3$ is constructible $\Rightarrow \sqrt{3}$ is constructible. $2$ is constructible \Rightarrow \frac{1}{2}$ is constructible. Therefore, $\sqrt{3} \cdot \frac{1}{2}$ is constructible.

Is this correct??
 
@TedShifrin My alma mater: news.vice.com/article/…
 
Anyway, I'm going to see a movie.
 
Huy
10:32 PM
@MikeMiller: I thought the question was directed to me personally.
 
@Arkamis i'll protest the heck out of 'em if they only give me pencils paper and trash cans.
where did the coffee machine go?
 
It was poorly phrased. Sorry.
 
@TedShifrin Where i am currently (slowly) working on my graduate degree: rollingstone.com/culture/features/a-rape-on-campus-20141119
 
Yup, @MaryStar. :)
Ah, @Arkamis, I've read about this recently.
 
To say that my academic experiences have been embroiled in administrative clusterfucks is to put it lightly.
 
Huy
10:34 PM
@MikeMiller: Looking at the table of wages for PhD students, it seems there is a huge gap between working at 50% and working at 60%, much larger than all other 10% gaps. I assume most students will try to make 60% work, and then they earn well-enough.
 
Well, @Arkamis, as long as you're not a frat boy, you're safe :P
 
@TedShifrin Ok... Thank you very much!!! :-)
 
@Arkamis: I think the whole football/frat culture in our country is f***ed.
 
During my undergrad, one year the Financial Aid office threw out my federal loan paperwork. Then, they told me 3 days before the semester ended that my semester would be voided unless I could come up with tuition by the end of the term.
 
Damn, @Arkamis, I think you've had more than your share of bad fortune.
 
10:36 PM
I think I don't really understand the difference between our systems, @Huy. Another time I'd like to spend some more time trying to understand.
 
Then, the next year, they had the audacity to put my picture on the header of the financial aid page in the college catalog.
That's not even a joke.
 
rolls all 7 eyes ... I'm sorry for what you endured, seriously, @Arkamis.
 
I need so many beers.
 
@Ted where did the 7th eye come from?
 
hands @Arkamis a double martini
 
10:37 PM
geometers grow more eyes as they grow older?
 
I've had it for quite a while, @Balarka.
 
you had 6 of them, last time i checked
 
Well, you lost track. And, besides, I'm no monk.
 
Huy
@MikeMiller: I think it is similar, but somehow the PhD students manage 60% work and don't get too much extra work from their adviser.
 
Hello everyone
 
10:38 PM
@TedShifrin well, who says monks can't grow eyes?
 
Can the euler product formula be used to show convergence of the zeta function, without first proving the convergence of the dirichlet sum?
 
Could I ask someone something about Set Theory?
 
well, that wasn't what I was thinking of, but you're right, @Balarka
 
@evinda shoot plz
 
Huy
@Arkamis: I skipped through your article linked, did the victim not sue the delinquents?
 
10:40 PM
@Huy It is so very complicated. Do not attempt to unravel it all. It has been quite a shitshow here. I could talk at length about it.
 
Well, @Huy, now it seems it may not have been true. No one knows.
 
OK, movie time.
 
movies are waste of time
 
@DonLarynx For any natural numbers $m,n$ it holds that:

$n \in m \rightarrow n \subset m$
 
i'd rather sleep
 
10:42 PM
@Balarka: Some of us are literate and some of us are cultured. We needn't be unidimensional.
 
Huy
@Arkamis: Then what was your motivation for posting the article in this chat?
 
@DonLarynx Proof:

We define the set $X=\{ n \in \omega: \forall m (m \in n \rightarrow m \subset n)$ and it suffices to show that $X$ is an inductive set.
Then, $\varnothing \in X$.
Let $n \in X$.
We want to show that $n'=n \cup \{ n \} \in X$.
We pick a $m \in n'=n \cup \{ n \}$.
Then $m \in n$ or $m \in \{ n \}$.

- If $m \in n$ and since $n \in X$, we have that $m \subset n$
-If $m \in \{ n \} \rightarrow m=n \rightarrow m \subset n$


So, $n' \in X$ and therefore $X$ is an inductive set.
 
@TedShifrin Some of the details regarding the specific incident have been questioned. But to me that's not the real story. The real story, which is true, is that the administration completely bollocksed the handling of this, and other, cases.
 
@TedShifrin i never said we should
 
It's also true that the administration knew of these accusations and buried them.
 
10:42 PM
i too watch movies, thus waste a lot of time
 
@DonLarynx In order to show that $n' \in X$ don't we have to show that $m \in n' \rightarrow m \subset n'$ ? Or am I wrong?
 
@TedShifrin And how could we show that the angle $36^{\circ}$ is constructible??
 
@Huy My point was to show administrative incompetence.
 
Yeah, college administrations are way too beholden to athletes and to frats/sororities.
 
it was just a universally true statement
 
Huy
10:43 PM
@Arkamis: I don't know how your system in your country works, but why would anyone go to the universities administration instead straight to the police after being raped?
 
Well, @MaryStar, can you build $36^\circ$ in terms of angles you know are constructible?
 
@evinda what is $\omega$
 
@DonLarynx It is the only inductive set that is contained in each inductive set.
 
@evinda it's easier to just say, "We assume that $n \in m \to n \subset m$ is true and prove it by induction."
 
@huy Because the universities tell students to do that, and we have something called Title IX that enables/requires the universities to handle these cases with internal reviews. The student is always entitled to go to the police, but often times the police urge them back to the university.
 
Huy
10:45 PM
@Arkamis: That sounds very, very stupid in my ears, no offense.
 
@evinda in your third line you say "Let $n \in X$ but you've already defined it to be so...
 
@Huy: Most people (of either gender) are way too embarrassed/ashamed and feel like it's their fault. So most do not report rape at all.
 
It is.
 
@TedShifrin Do you mean that I have to construct a triangle at which one angle is $36^{\circ}$ and the other ones are known to be constructible??
 
That's true, too. @TedShifrin. I've been through it myself and with a significant other.
 
Huy
10:45 PM
@TedShifrin: That point I completely understand, that is also sometimes the case over here. But it seems the story got out after all, so I personally would have gone to the police instead of the uni, which is why I asked the previous question.
 
@DonLarynx Could you explain me why we take a $m \in n'$ and prove that $m \subset n$ and not $m \subset n'$ ?
 
I'm very sorry, @Arkamis.
 
Thank you, @TedShifrin.
 
No, @MaryStar, make a list of angles you know are constructible. See if you can use them to find $36^\circ$.
When I assign this to my students, @MaryStar, I know they are equipped to answer it. So I presume you are too.
 
OK, I should go to sleep now
 
10:48 PM
night, @Balarka.
 
Huy
Good night, @BalarkaSen.
 
well i never said i am going to sleep, just that i should :P
 
@BalarkaSen Good night!!! :)
 
Huy
@BalarkaSen: But we're saying that you are going.
 
Wait, you wanted to prove to me that $n \in m \to n \subset m$. You state that "If $m \in \{n\}$ then $m \subset n$". Also, consider $m = 34$ and $n = 29$ then $34 \neq 29$ and your statement is false.
 
10:49 PM
@BalarkaSen Aha... What time is it there?
 
@evinda 4:30. Crack of a dawn.
 
Huy
And he's 14. shakes head
 
Just kidding, @Ted, @Huy.
Night.
 
@Balarka: I told you to go to bed 8 hours ago.
 
10:50 PM
smacks @Balarka
 
@Ted You smacked him so hard that he flew out of the chatroom
 
Don't worry @Balarka, I was more annoying than you were at your age
 
@DonLarynx If $m \in \{n\}$, then we have that $m=n$ since $m$ belongs to a set which has only one element so it has to be equal to this only element.
 
@DonLarynx If being silent all the time were annoying, then I would've been the most annoying kid on the planet at 14 :D
 
@evinda I assumed $\{n\}$ to be the compliment of $n$. What is it?
@teadawg1337 it is.
 
10:54 PM
Oh........
:(
 
@DonLarynx No, it is the set with n as its only element
 
Alright, I am off. I have to meet the inlaws for dinner.
 
@Arkamis I have to meet the outlaws for breakfast.
 
dont get caught. RICO is real!
 
I am RICO Suave
@evinda 1 sec pls
@evinda and $n \in m$ implies that $n < m$?
 
11:00 PM
@TedShifrin We have that $36 \cdot 5=180$, so do we have to show that $\cos \left ( \frac{2 \pi}{5} \right )$ is costructible using the formula $$\cos(5 \theta)=16 \cos^5 (\theta)-20\cos^3(\theta)+5\cos(\theta) $$ ??
 
Ah, good, @MaryStar. Think about that angle. But better to use $\sin(5\theta)$. Why?
 
@DonLarynx Yes.
 
Huy
A pool table is on sale, for 500 instead of 900. If only I had more space.
 
@TedShifrin Why should we use better $\sin(5\theta)$ ??
 
Well, @MaryStar, what's $\sin(\pi)$ as opposed to $\cos(\pi)$?
or $2\pi$, no matter ...
 
11:06 PM
@TedShifrin Oh yes, it's $0$...
 
@evinda

If $n,m \in \Bbb{N}$ then $n < m \to n \subset m$.

Proof:

Since $m \ni n$, then $n^c \in m$

Since $m$ contains $n$ and some of its complement, then $n \subset m$. However, $m \subset n$ can't be true because $n^c \not\subset n \to m \not\subset n$, hence $m \neq n$.

Thus $n \subset m$
 
11:23 PM
(...meaning 'no')
 
11:46 PM
@DonLarynx the real race is to 50
 
Ok @Jorge. I will post a screenshot when it's all said and done.
 

« first day (1609 days earlier)      last day (3427 days later) »