Mathematics - 2013-01-26 (page 2 of 2)

Orange Harvester

18:02

Hmm. Let me phrase is another way. If a condition is true for a set $A$, it is true for all subsets of $A$. It has something to do with the structure of the set $A$. For example, if a set $A$ is a group, then not all subsets of $A$ are groups. Here $f$ would be a function which checks if the argument is a group or not.

But now, suppose there is some property of a set $X$ determined by its structure and the situation is if a set $A$ satisfies that property, then so do all subsets of $A$ satisfy that property, is there a name for such thing?

Jonas Teuwen

@MarianoSuárez-Alvarez No.

Ilya

@OrangeHarvester so, you mean $f:2^\Omega\to \{0,1\}$ where $\Omega$ is some universal space. Suppose, there is $A\in 2^\Omega$ such that $f(A) = 1$ implies $f(X) = 1$ for all $X\subseteq A$, right?

Jonas Teuwen

Do you need tensors, tensors for your products Ilya?

My advisor loves tensors. We tried to outclass each other in loving tensors.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

@JonasTeuwen :)

Jonas Teuwen

In terms of number of pages he won... but...

Orange Harvester

18:07

@Ilya Hmm. Kind of. I just realized then, it would have to be true for every singleton set then. So, what you wrote before was correct. But my actual question was different. Let me rephrase that again, and see if I can do that. :-)

I will take my time this time.

Jonas Teuwen

It is only not so good to be attracted to me as I barely can stand myself! If I would ever commit suicide and write a note, it would be "life is too long to spend with assholes".

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

well, use that as a conversation starter and he'll probably stop :P

Jonas Teuwen

:P.

That is a 9.2 on the scale of rhetorics.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

who punctuates a smiley?! :D

Jonas Teuwen

I got a 9.95 a couple of weeks ago when a student mailed me and asked how you decide which method of integration has to be used for a given problem.

So I replied in a formal way and stated: 'Such a trick indeed exists. It is called: thinking. It also works in many other occasions. Perhaps you should give it a shot!'

@MarianoSuárez-Alvarez I always do.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

18:15

integration is had on students because there are no rules

(at least, they are never taught any)

Jonas Teuwen

There is a rule, it is called practice!

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

usually abstract linear algebra has the same effect, as it is the first abstract thng the learn and proving things about that is sort of free-form

yeah

Jonas Teuwen

The same holds for differentiation: you need to spot the pattern.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

while it is obvious for you, it is not for many

Jonas Teuwen

And the rest is a mechanical trick, just as with integration but perhaps a bit harder, but the exercise you get...

Yes, that he asks such a question is 1) He did not listen to me saying it every class 2) No practice.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

18:17

in any case, telling people to think has the same effect as telling them «not to worry»

that is, none :)

Jonas Teuwen

If the question would be more specific in 'how to do <...>'.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

but asking specific, precise questions is also an art

Jonas Teuwen

Yes. But I take offense in him not listening to me while I told him personally two times before.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

you have to teach them to do it

Jonas Teuwen

Additionally, there are ~100 students and I am able to remember what they asked me, why they not what I told them personally.

Right, but they are not mathematics students and my task is to teach them calculus, not to be scientists. Other people are more qualified for that.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

18:19

asking correct questions is part of calculus

Jonas Teuwen

Mm, not here (for engineers). Here is this integral. 'Solve' it.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

i am of the opinion, in fact, that teaching calculus is only useful to have some excuse to teach people how how think

well, if you teach them that way, you get what you got

Jonas Teuwen

How can you do that with so many?

I do have two BSc and one MSc student, that is much cooler.

In a one-on-one discussion you can do that.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

it is much easier to teach people who are interested and motivated and know stuff

restricting one's effort to them is cheating, in a way

Jonas Teuwen

Yes, and I do not feel like it is my task to motivate them to study for the thing they like to do. I give interesting examples and different explanations.

The effort is lost in thin air, I prefer to spend that on people that actually do care! Like those two (not the third).

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

18:21

most people with the interest and motivation in fact could do without us

it is the others that need the help

Jonas Teuwen

Mmm, they can do without, but they can make much quicker progress with help.

In any case, independent of the lecturer more than 60% fail for the exam the first time.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

sure

but passing the exam is only part of it

Jonas Teuwen

That is all the care about.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

lots of people pass examsn and do no tunderstad anything

Jonas Teuwen

'Is this on the exam' when you explain a cooler example.

With the answer 'no', most drop the pen.

Yes, as they do not care.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

18:23

cool examples are mostly a mastubatory activity on the part of the teacher

Jonas Teuwen

And I do not think it is my job to make them care.

Perhaps your cool ones are.

In this particular case it was giving some intuitive reasons why infinite sums of positive things can still be finite (by filling up a circle or so).

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

if you give an example and it is lost on 76% of the class, and you know this, then the example was more or less pointless

Jonas Teuwen

With 'cool' I mean 'not in the book'.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

if they are going to be evaluated by what is in the book, and they know this, it is understandable that they do not care

Jonas Teuwen

I have no intrinsic reason to want to look or sound smart.

Yes, but they don't understand that either - no matter what you do.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

18:25

trust me, it does matter what you do

Jonas Teuwen

Okay - well, there are about 30 lecturers and all have about the same pass rate...

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

if there is one thing that has given me hope in humankind is seeing what students do

Jonas Teuwen

(same course across faculties)

Do shit? - Not make war.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

if you really think there is nothing useful you can do, you might just as well do something else

teaching without faith is one of the worse activities there are

Jonas Teuwen

Like you are at the same party where most of the class is and the next morning in the lecture there is... one.

Indeed, so I do.

But I do not have the complete choice in that.

The 1-1 and research with the students is more fun.

Orange Harvester

18:27

@JonasTeuwen What do engineering undergraduates undergo in math at TU delft? Proper analysis and linear algebra courses or a complete medley compressed into "Engineering Mathematics" on the line of Kreyszig?

Jonas Teuwen

@OrangeHarvester The latter :S.

Orange Harvester

Well, then I feel that is a part of the problem. (Having undergone the kreyszig thing myself.)

Jonas Teuwen

Depends - mathematics engineering go do some Springer GTM in the undergrad.

Yes, my advisor too, he even said it in his inaugural lecture 8-).

But one cannot chose the book. It is how it is.

Here is the schedule, do that.

Orange Harvester

Same at my uni it was.

Jonas Teuwen

And then 'don't bother too much, they will not listen anyway'.

Complex analysis for mathematics students was much better.

They actually ask a question which you can't read directly from the book 8-).

Orange Harvester

18:31

That is cool.

Jonas Teuwen

And I do not know how I should 'motivate' people which do not want to be motivated.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

Well, I don't

Jonas Teuwen

I do not feel that is my task. They come there to learn something, then I will help them with it, but if they come there to just sit through the lecture and play games or whatever...

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

I just treat them all like they are motivated

Jonas Teuwen

Even the ones that immediately open laptops?!

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

18:32

I'd ask them to leave

Jonas Teuwen

Yep, then next time the class is empty.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

well, so be it

explain to them what you expect from them

Jonas Teuwen

It is different with the physics students or aerospace engineering.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

they'll respect you for that

I expect attention

all my students know it

Jonas Teuwen

Yes, that does not work with these.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

18:34

they are free to come or miss my classes

Jonas Teuwen

With the physics students it does.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

and i have explained many times that I simply do not care if they do not come

Jonas Teuwen

The ones I talk about are from @Ilya his faculty.

Orange Harvester

@MarianoSuárez-Alvarez Well, here we have "compulsory attendance" :P

Jonas Teuwen

It's like the girl scouts.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

18:34

If I had compulsory attendance, I'd make them as present and tell them they can leave

Jonas Teuwen

We once had a very old professor. Very sour face.

Orange Harvester

Yeah, some profs do that.

Jonas Teuwen

And then some students talked to each other and laughed. He said: 'What is so funny? I like to laugh too :|'

'Knock know' Who is there? 'There is the door.'

I still prefer the 1-1.

Mariano Suárez-Alvarez

it s a different game

Jonas Teuwen

As it really helps, not many bachelor students manage to get up to locally convex spaces and quantum fields.

(And write a paper about it too)

Alright, I go to a party. Tensor or categories, which book to take.

Orange Harvester

18:39

Tensor.

My idea is to restructure the course. We are taught about beta functions and we do not get to use or even see them until we are well into masters program. And by that time, the analysis background is not good enough that the special functions can be learnt on their own. I would rather say that teach them some more basic hard core techniques in analysis and then trust the people to learn the special functions themselves when they get into masters course. Similarly for linear algebra.

But of course you said that is not possible, which is a shame, but if it helps, you might now understand their perspective.

Jonas Teuwen

Special functions are so fun.

Tensor is a bit tough in the evening, I'll take the categories.

Orange Harvester

They are fun only if you know how to navigate around them.

Jonas Teuwen

I used an ${}_1\!F_1$ to improve a doubling estimate in harmonic analysis :P.

Orange Harvester

Cool. Without the navigation skills, they are bunch of instructions, and if you get on wrong, you are lost.

Jonas Teuwen

Try harder then.

I leave, so see you later! Enjoy your day/morning/evening/night.

Orange Harvester

18:43

Later!

Nimza

19:24

Hello! What does mean operation "#" between topological spaces?

anon

knot sum?

Novice

Why did the troll remove that $2$...

Another upvote. Why God, why

Somebody is downvoting and upvoting

And now that chat message doesn't make sense at all.

Nimza

@anon connected sum :)

Ilya

19:47

@Jonas: what. You talk about 3mE students and mentioned my name?

Ethan

19:57

How can I prove that$$\sum_{k=1}^nx^{\gcd(k,n)}=\sum_{d\mid n}\phi(\frac{n}{d})x^d$$

anon

gcd(k,n) is always a divisor of n, and for any divisor d|n the number of k such that gcd(k,n)=d is equal to the number of generators of the unique cyclic subgroup of order n/d in a cyclic group of order n (since the order of k in Z/nZ is n/gcd(n,k)), which is equal to phi(n/d)

Ethan

nvm i see

Ok I understand it all, except why is the number of $1\leq k\leq n$ such that $gcd(k,n)=d$ equal to $\phi(\frac{n}{d})$

I know the special case d=1 is true

because thats how I define the phi function

nvm I just proved that, thanks for the help anon

Old John

20:39

Hi @WillJagy How are your doings?

Nimza

Is there an easy way to show that $L_{m}(l_1,\ldots,l_n) / S^1 = \mathbb{C}P^{n}$? ($L_m$ here is a lens space)

Theorem

20:58

any idea how to find galois group of $x^n+1 \in \mathbb Q$

the roots of the given irreducible polynomial in $\mathbb Q $ are , $+/-\sqrt{i} , i, \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2}+\frac{i}{2} $

Old John

@Theorem not sure about the Galois group, but they can't be the zeros of the polynomial you gave

Theorem

@OldJohn oops there is a mistake here , $n=4 $

Old John

@Theorem OK - but the zero you gave a with $\sqrt{3}$ in it is not a zero of that even if $n=4$

Theorem

@OldJohn : that was a typo , it should be $\frac{\sqrt{3}}{2}{}+\frac{i}{\sqrt{2}}$

anon

The galois group of Q adjoin a primitive nth root of -1 should be the group of units of Z/2nZ.

Old John

21:07

@Theorem If you are looking for the zeros of $z^4+1$, they are $\pm 1/\sqrt{2} \pm i/\sqrt{2}$

Theorem

@anon : yes , but here my case is $n=4$

Old John

no $\sqrt{3}$ in any of them

anon

@Theorem why do you use the word "but"?

Theorem

@anon :P

@anon my english is quite bad :(

user19161

Also, no need to use @ everyline @theorem, LOL.

Theorem

21:10

@JasonBourne : :D

Old John

Hi @JasonBourne How are things?

user19161

@OldJohn Well, I am the same, which means very bad. But I am still trying...

Old John

@JasonBourne Good - I am very trying too, sometimes :)

user19161

@OldJohn I hope to be back on this site in a few days time.

Will Jagy

@OldJohn, the crossword says a repeated cry of Mercutio in Romeo and Juliet is asail, which I think is A Sail in two words. getting book...

Just before Mercutio dies

Old John

21:19

@JasonBourne good

user19161

@OldJohn With only one account to care about now, I might as well aim for 30k this year!

Old John

@JasonBourne Absolutely!

@WillJagy Hmm - not seen asail with only one "s" - but you might be right

@JasonBourne I don't set myself targets - at my age, my aim is to enjoy the rest of my life, and achieving a certain level of rep here is pretty low on that scale :)

user19161

@OldJohn Haha, you might live to 100!

Old John

@JasonBourne possible, but unlikely, given my genetic history and lifestyle :)

Theorem

@anon : I think the the galois group is isomorph to $\mathbb Z_2 \times \mathbb Z_2$

every automorphism is of order 2

Old John

21:24

@Theorem I would agree with that

(but is many years since I did any Galois theory - so listen to what anon might say, rather than me!)

user19161

@OldJohn I studied Galois theory from Lang's Algebra, LOL.

user19161

Some say that is the only good chapter in that book.

Old John

@JasonBourne I have never read that one - but I have Lang's Complex Analysis and think it is one of the worst books on the subject I have read

user19161

Hey @anon what classes are you doing this semester?

Theorem

@OldJohn : the galois extension is $\mathbb Q(\sqrt{2}, i)$ so it seemed quite straight forward . But i want to confirm if i am right . i often get confused while computing galois groups

user19161

21:26

@OldJohn I dislike all of Lang's books, not that I have read any in detail.

Will Jagy

@OldJohn, act 2, scene 3
Romeo: Here's goodly gear!
....enter Nurse and her man Peter
Mercutio: A sail, a sail, a sail!
Benvolio: Two, two; a shirt and a smock
=-=-=-=-=-= string of lame jokes and puns suitable to the time and language

anon

I am taking differential geometry, abstract algebra II, number theory & cryptography, and p-adic analysis.

Old John

@Theorem pretty sure you are right - that has to be the right extension field

user19161

@anon Wow, they let you take that in the first year?

Old John

@WillJagy well done!

Theorem

21:29

@OldJohn : Thanks !

@anon : are u taking these courses as 1st year master student or bachelor student .

anon

@JasonBourne one thing I have learned in school is that every rule has an exception, if you know the rulemakers

4

Old John

@Theorem when it comes to things like Galois groups, I am a bit of a caveman - I like to be able to list (mentally or on paper) things like the actual field extensions and automorphisms

Theorem

@OldJohn : Same here , i did write it down and mapped around the roots :D

user19161

@anon Ah, anyway, if I could start all over, I would take all the math courses offered in the right order, just telling you.

Theorem

@JasonBourne : I get very often confused about which course to take

Old John

21:32

@Theorem :)

user19161

@Theorem Take all the math courses, every one of them! Really.

Old John

@Theorem - where are you from? - you said your language is not English?

Will Jagy

@OldJohn, it is clear that they are just fucking around. There is a bit about shoes that I mostly understand, but I don't get this part. Also, and this cannot be a coincidence, as i was holding it, my 1250 page all Shakespeare in one book cracked at the spine in exactly that page. Well, some other places too, the glue has given up. I guess that is why real books were sewn through, to avoid losing pages

user19161

@OldJohn He just said his E is not good.

Theorem

@JasonBourne : Thats true , i would like to but i cannot manage to take every courses and write exams :(

user19161

21:34

@Theorem And take as few non-math as possible, but some are part of requirements.

Old John

@JasonBourne I take that to be the same thing - unless one is admitting that one struggles with one's own language :)

user19161

@OldJohn Oh well, I am not sure if Americans and British consider me to be a "native speaker" or not!

Theorem

@OldJohn : I am half german and half indian :D

Old John

@WillJagy I hate it when books do that

Theorem

@OldJohn : How do u find my english ?

user19161

21:37

@Theorem It is alright.

Old John

@Theorem very good -much better than my german/hindi/urdu/punjabi/sanskrit/...

user19161

@OldJohn OMG, so many!

Old John

@JasonBourne I only actually know one of that list (and about 3 words of Urdu)

user19161

@OldJohn I know a few Tamil curse words.

Theorem

@Jason : Hopefully i will be able to do well in my GRE next year

Will Jagy

21:38

@OldJohn, now I have a section of pages fallen out of the book, Romeo and Juliet II.iii to King Henry the Fourth Part I: IV.i. Well, I will just push them back in and return to bookshelf. If I spent much time reading Shakespeare I would have better editions.

Theorem

@JasonBourne : How come u know Tamil ??

user19161

@Theorem Ah, that is my secret! I am very mysterious...

Old John

although I suspect I do know a few more words of Urdu - those which are identical to Persian - I just don't know which Urdu words are the same as Persian :)

Theorem

@OldJohn : I find sanskrit fascinating .

@OldJohn : Are u from England ?

@JasonBourne : Please spill out your secret

Old John

@Theorem I once bought A book on Sanskrit: "Learn Sanskrit in 30 days" - just because of the title - thought it had to be a joke!

@Theorem yes

user19161

21:40

@Theorem NO

Theorem

@JasonBourne : i doubt if u have ever gone to Tamilnadu , chennai :D

Old John

@WillJagy Could be fun reading Shakespeare with randomised pages - that could be surreal!

Orange Harvester

@Theorem Are you from Chennai?

user19161

@Theorem Haha, I have many secrets. You have no idea what I have gone through this life...

Theorem

@OrangeHarvester : Nope , i lived in Bangalore , but don't ask me if i know kannada :P

@JasonBourne : You are killing me , u have to tell me your tamil secret

Orange Harvester

21:42

@Theorem Lol. Hmm. I am originally from Nagpur. Right now in Pune. What do you do?

Theorem

@JasonBourne : Its not like schrödingers cat paradox or curiosity kills the cat :D

@OrangeHarvester : I am a mathematics undergrad

user19161

I am a banana.

Orange Harvester

@Theorem Okay, where? (If you don't mind.) I am an engineering graduate from VNIT.

Theorem

I am not orange

user19161

I was a banana long before @orange became an orange.

Theorem

21:44

@OrangeHarvester : i am doing in Technical University , Germany

@JasonBourne : haha

Will Jagy

I know these two youngsters from Hyderabad, originally through MO but later Facebook. One of them was a prize winner in Latin and Greek and had an invitation to some world linguistics contest in Europe somewhere, but could not arrange funding. Now he is doing some sort of engineering at mit manipal. I guess he likes it ok, but he does all sorts of side things with language, school newspaper, website, whatever.

user19161

@Theorem My favourite country! I hope to be born there next life, LOL.

Orange Harvester

@Theorem Ahh. Cool.

Theorem

@JasonBourne : You seem to like india a lot :D

@OrangeHarvester : what do u study in engineering ?

user19161

@Theorem No. I like Germany.

Theorem

21:46

:P

Orange Harvester

@Theorem Electronics/Communication

Theorem

@JasonBourne : Ah great .

Orange Harvester

@WillJagy Interesting. Linguistic and Math?

Old John

@JasonBourne The food there is as bad as English food! - choose somewhere with better cuisine!

Will Jagy

The other one is in mathematics in Bangalore, ISI or something. I tried to arrange for him to meet Ken Ono, who was there twice for Ramanujan's 125'th birthday, but nothing came of that.

user19161

21:47

@OldJohn Haha, is it true that you only eat fish and chips? =)

Theorem

@WillJagy : ISI is a nice place for mathematics and stat.

Old John

@JasonBourne no - we have lots of other dishes - but they are mostly worse than fish and chips :(

Orange Harvester

@WillJagy ISI is a good institute.

user19161

@OldJohn Haha, the fish and chips in some restaurants here are worse than those in cheap hawker centres.

Will Jagy

@OrangeHarvester, yes. He was disappointed but said that the exams in India write your whole future, and his came up engineering. So that is the one in Manipal. The one in ISI has always hoped to come to the US for graduate school, but that is tough, and nothing with which I can help.

Old John

21:48

@JasonBourne very little of the food cooked in my house is actually English in any sense - fortunately

user19161

@OldJohn I eat almost the same thing every day: rice, chicken, egg, spinach, banana.

Theorem

@WillJagy : thats true , even when i came for undergraduate study in germany it was pretty difficult .

Sanchez

@WillJagy, prize winner in Latin/languages but on MO?

Theorem

I prefer to come to US for my graduate study :D

Orange Harvester

@WillJagy Yes. That is sadly very true (about the exams).

Old John

21:50

@JasonBourne My step-son is fly to Batam island right now - that is close to you?

user19161

@OldJohn Well, pretty close. I have a friend who is a citizen of X, works in Y and comes here Z during the weekends because his family is here.

Theorem

@WillJagy : Ken Ono is professor in Emory University right ?

Old John

@JasonBourne My step-son is flying there tonight as part of his job (he works in Abu Dhabi) - he will only be there for 2-3 weeks

Theorem

My close friend is doing Phd in emory

Will Jagy

@Sanchez, no, Kody spent some time on MO, he is at ISI, his friend Athyu with the languages is at Manipal. The interesting thing is the extent to which these kids identify themselves with American modern culture rather than British. I would not have predicted that. The two flavors of rigidity that have been mentioned are exams and college, then marriage, evidently American style dating is frowned upon. So, while there are matchmaking websites, as in U.S. match.com or eharmony.com, the result is

Sanchez

21:54

@WillJagy, I see.

Theorem

@WillJagy : U have got it right .

Will Jagy

@Theorem, yes, at Emory. There seemed to be a connection between Ono and Kody, but it came to nothing in the end. Kody has some two years or so to arrange graduate school, so the story is not over. I would like to see him do well.

Theorem

@WillJagy : Thats nice :)

Will Jagy

@Theorem, Kody had this obsession with cow urine for a while. I told him I only drink it for the taste.

Theorem

@WillJagy : hehe, lots of people drink for some health purpose . i have milked cows once .

Old John

22:00

@Theorem I grew up on a farm - milking cows and drinking freshly "squeezed" milk was normal

Theorem

@WillJagy : But it smells and i think u just have to close ur eyes and gulp :D

@OldJohn : I love that rather than opening a tetra pack

Orange Harvester

@OldJohn My mom grew up on a farm, and I would go there when I was a young kid. I did not like that freshly squeezed milk.

Old John

@OrangeHarvester yeah - it is probably not that healthy - I think I have TB antibodies due to it

Will Jagy

@OldJohn, it is part of some discipline called Ayurveda to drink the urine rather than the milk. I do not see the appeal. blogs.discovery.com/animal_news/2009/08/cow-urine-soda.html

Old John

which probably means I had exposure to TB at an early age

@WillJagy Yep - not seen the appeal (or logic) behind Ayurveda either

Theorem

22:04

@WillJagy : I think it shouldn't be a random cow , there might be some conditions

Orange Harvester

@OldJohn Urine stuff I am not really familiar with and then there are distortions over the centuries. But some stuff is quite useful and well known. Actually there was a patent battle between some university and Indian government over the use of turmeric. Indian Government said it was well known traditional knowledge while the university insisted it was novel. It lead to creation of Traditional Knowledge Data Library for such stuff. It is basically accumulated empirical knowledge.

Will Jagy

@Theorem, certainly. This is regarded as a health practice, I would expect all sorts of rules, both religious and practical: I am having trouble finding a page from any publication actually located in India about this, but this is not far off: ancientayurved.org/index.php?do=/blog/1308/…

Old John

@OrangeHarvester Interesting - I use quite a lot of turmeric in my cooking - so I guess my Ayurvedic comment above was rather misleading :)

Will Jagy

@OrangeHarvester, my high-school friend Marty (Martin) who is a gastroenterologist says turmeric is vey good for something. Which, I admit, I cannot remember. My diet is so restricted already i do not go throwing in new things. Same with OldJohn.

Orange Harvester

@WillJagy Yeah, a lot of turmeric causes acidity, and hence, we have prescriptions like whenever you put turmeric in something, you have to put a "anupaan", something which cancels out the acidity and stuff. Every preparation has kind of a different "anupaan".

Theorem

22:11

@WillJagy : thats right , i have been to some of ayurvedic centres , and my relatives have some naturopath clinic in Nepal .

i find it pretty interesting , not always convincing but good enough to surprise me

Old John

@WillJagy Not exactly true when you say "same for old john" - I throw in anything that paleolithic man might have eaten - even if it is very new to me :)

e.g. I ate some camel recently in Abu Dhabi

Orange Harvester

@OldJohn How was it?

Old John

@OrangeHarvester very tasty - actually reminded me a bit of reindeer :)

Orange Harvester

@OldJohn Cool. It tempts me to eat some now. :-)

Old John

@OrangeHarvester :)

Theorem

22:14

am i the only vegetarian out here :P

Orange Harvester

@Theorem I would not be surprised. :P

Will Jagy

@OrangeHarvester UCLA Study: prevent alzheimer's...also anti-inflammatory

Theorem

Ok , i have to go . gnt @WillJagy @OldJohn @OrangeHarvester

Orange Harvester

@Theorem Good Night.

Old John

@Theorem bye for now!

Orange Harvester

22:18

@WillJagy Nice. I remember that it is not very sure shot though.

Old John

My attitude to adding stuff like turmeric, cinnamon, garlic, ginger to my diet is: the studies might be wrong, but I like the flavours, so I add plenty of them, and if they actually do me some good ... great!

Is chilli supposed to be good for anything? (I love it)

Orange Harvester

@OldJohn Chilli is very good for tropical people to keep away from worms and similar stuff. Basically, in tropics, due to hot and humid temperatures, bacterial growth can be a big problem, chilli helps against that.

Hence, generally tropical cuisines are high in chilli content and other spices.

Old John

@OrangeHarvester hmm - but not so beneficial in cold, wet NW UK ... never mind

Will Jagy

@OrangeHarvester, Marty thinks in the long term. Most of his training was usual Western style. Then he hurt his shoulder, and began having trouble doing the procedures, the main one being endoscope. So he is gradually leaving the procedures to his office colleagues and focussing on prevention.

Let's see. In prevention, no single thing is guaranteed. so @OldJohn has a certain type of diet which I would probably be unwilling to do. For my part, I take fish-oil capsules and eat little red meat, as my main troubles are in the area of cholesterol and diabetes. However, my father did get Alzheimer's, something to think about.

Old John

@anon - I am disappointed that your question has not generated more interest - been looking through my p-adic analysis book , but to no avail

Orange Harvester

22:28

@WillJagy Ahaa. In India around a decade or two ago, there was a big divide between Western Style and Ayurveda, not in the least because of the fraudelant claims about Ayurveda by dishonest people. However, now we have a good synergy between the two.

Old John

@WillJagy not sure about the cholesterol, but I am pretty sure the paleo-diet has the diabetes thing cracked - hopefully

anon

@OldJohn I can prove a converse of my intuition: if the exponents (corresponding to nonzero coefficients) in a p-adic expansion of $x$, as a subset of $\bf Q$, additively generate a discrete and hence cyclic subgroup (generated by say the rational $u=t/s$), then $x\in{\bf Q}_p(p^{1/s})$ is algebraic, as it can be written as a ${\bf Q}_p$-linear combination of $p^{1/s},p^{2/s},\cdots,p^{(s-1)/s}$ (simply sift the terms $a_{e/s}p^{e/s}$ according to the residue class of $e$ mod $s$).

(Note the value group of ${\bf C}_p$ is $\bf Q$.)

My professor emailed me the example of $a_n=\sum_{k=1}^n p^{1+1/2+\cdots+1/k}$ being a sequence of algebraics that converges to a transcendental element of ${\bf C}_p$.

Old John

@anon right - do you think it is worth adding that as an edit to the question?

anon

I am already planning that. They key is to time it, as my ulterior motive is garnering more attention.

(I posted it at a bad time to receive attention, unfortunately.)

Old John

@anon Maybe add the edit more than 24 hours after the post - and at a time when the US is mostly online?

anon

22:35

right

Will Jagy

@OldJohn, yeah, I'm on the edge, two readings (out of some six years) a hair too high out of about ten Hgb A1c tests. Various people have told me, fuck that, you do not have diabetes. Which is nice to hear. They are making my sister Susan check her blood(fingertip) every day, but no pills or injections yet.

Old John

I will continue scanning through my book - Robert: "A Course in p-adic Analysis" (but much of it is beyond my current understanding!)

@WillJagy Yeah - I would rather make significant changes to my lifestyle and diet, rather than go down the pills/injection route

Will Jagy

@OldJohn, I heard that those are one-way, once you are on insulin shots you are always on insulin.

Ethan

@anon do you use Texworks?

anon

yes

Old John

22:41

@WillJagy but some recent research has shown that a 600 calorie-per-day diet (for several weeks) can actually reverse that -but it must be bloody tough!

Will Jagy

@OldJohn, Azarenka beat Li in the Australian tennis final, Djocovic-Murray is about midnight my time, i guess about 8 am your time.
I still tweak my diet, but it is wearying. I do cheat, mostly on lunch, just a matter of low frequency

Note that Azarenka's weird Banshee howl should be banned.

Old John

@WillJagy Murray - Federer was interesting - watched it yesterday over a very long breakfast. Not convinced Murray has yet got the balls to beat Djokovic ... if you forgive the pun

@WillJagy why is it the women tennis players do the howl more than the men?

Ethan

@anon when ever I try to open up somthing I wrote in texworks in adobe reader, I get "there was an error in opening this document, the file is damaged and cannot be repaired", also I cant load a preview of what I typed either, could you help me?

Orange Harvester

@WillJagy And sharapova's too. Actually, there IS a rule now I think. But when azarenka was asked about it, she reportedly said, "Good luck implementing that."

anon

@Ethan what happens when you try to load the preview?

Orange Harvester

22:46

@OldJohn It is purely a psychological tool/weapon. Sharapova has been known to grunt even when hitting a drop shot.

Ethan

It says "failed to load file '(name).pdf', perhaps it is not a valid pdf document"

Will Jagy

Actually a bit closer to Glinda the Good Witch from movie Wizard of Oz.
I don't see Murray doing it.
i don't know who started the howling. Some of the women announcers talk about gradually banning it, how you probably can't do anything about it for current professionals, but you have a chance with today's twelve-year-old tennis prodigies.

user19161

@Ethan Paste your code here.

Old John

@WillJagy sounds sensible

Ethan

@JasonBourne why? and besides its to long to paste

anon

22:47

actually, use pastebin. don't paste an entire document's code in a chatroom...

Orange Harvester

@JasonBourne Chat Rules duuude. :-)

Will Jagy

@OldJohn, I know in karate they do those yells, I guess it is like that. Really creepy, though.

Ethan

@anon can I just email you the code?

or wait

Old John

@WillJagy indeed!

user19161

@anon It just displays as ... (see more) or sth like that.

Orange Harvester

22:49

:7848916 woot? email would be better. You really shouldn't trust @anon, they hack into the computers anyway. :P

anon

@JasonBourne (a) it may hit a character limit and (b) it will force reading the doc code and the chatroom to be de facto mutually exclusive.

Will Jagy

@OldJohn, I called Marty about the turmeric mostly; but he confirmed that his mother liked the decaf teabags from Ireland, so that worked well

user19161

@OrangeHarvester Rules don't apply when I am here. QED.

Orange Harvester

@WillJagy How long does it take for someone with bad eating habits and sedentary lifestyle to develop diabetes? I have had somewhat bad eating habits and not much exercise for around 2 months. Is that very bad?

Old John

@WillJagy excellent!

@OrangeHarvester probably 20 years would do it - 2 months is nothing!!

user19161

22:50

@Ethan How many char is it?

Orange Harvester

@OldJohn Ahh. Good. I never had to care about my eating habits when I was home. Now, I have to do, and it took me sometime to adjust.

Will Jagy

@OrangeHarvester, no guarantees either way, and age is a big part of it anyway. Plenty of people develop diabetes after, say, 50 years old, having kept constant habits for decades. Meanwhile, my sister Linda does not have any diabetes, despit the worst habits imagineable, just lying around or eating.

user19161

@ethan Oh well I guess the great anon is helping you now, so I should just STFU.

Ethan

@anon I appreciate your help, also if you want advice on a long (like a page or 2) proof whats the best way to get it?

anon

a page or two is not a terribly long proof. seek advice like you normally would.

Ethan

22:55

I normally get advice from here lol

user19161

@Ethan So you have learnt to use TeX finally! Well done!

Will Jagy

@OldJohn, Azarenka also gets supernatural energy from that Red Foo guy, foxnews.com/sports/2013/01/26/…

user19161

@Ethan Try to post it here after shortening it.

user19161

@WillJagy By the way, did you know Old John in real life before this site?

Ethan

@JasonBourne I can't get a preview of it, in tex

user19161

22:58

@Ethan I mean, on the main site.

Old John

@WillJagy darn - I wish I had watched that match on TV

user19161

Or is it crashing?

Old John

@JasonBourne nope - but we do seem to have similar interests and sense-of-humour

user19161

@OldJohn Ah, because I always see you and him talking to each other intimately!

Will Jagy

@JasonBourne, no, but there is this mystic portal used by the Wise, called email.

user19161

23:02

By the way @ethan are you using latexmk with TeXworks or just pdflatex, or sth else?

Old John

@WillJagy and a less mystic portal called BookFace - or something ...

user19161

@WillJagy Guess what? I use it too! That's where I share all my secrets!

user19161

@OldJohn Ah, I have no account there...

Ethan

@JasonBourne texworks with pdflatex

user19161

@Ethan Ah, just note that you may need to run it more than once sometimes...

Jonas Teuwen

23:05

@Ilya Yes, they are your peasants.

I hAS RETURNED

Old John

Have to go and watch some football highlights - back later

Jonas Teuwen

Alright.

user19161

@JonasTeuwen Ilya will correct that line.

anorton

23:20

Ok... so I'm going to be competing in the COMAP undergraduate modeling competition next week(end) (http://www.comap.com/undergraduate/contests/mcm/).

However, I've never really done that sort of thing before. :) Any advice to a beginner in mathematical modeling?

anon

don't trip on the runway

Jonas Teuwen

If they are better than you in modelling, be sure you are better at fighting.

user19161

23:36

Chinese New Year is in two weeks time. Perhaps @anon will change to something Eastern.

math101

23:50

@JasonBourne You are back to blue

user19161

@math101 Yeah, I change all the time. The colour is not representative of anything. =)

Old John

back

user19161

@OldJohn By the way, is your kitchen finally in order after the reno?

Old John

@JasonBourne Oh yes - completely functional again - and really pleased with the new version.

just need some nice weather - or a holiday somewhere warm :)

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$Mathematics$ Mathematics