Mathematics - 2012-03-03 (page 3 of 3)

@robjohn In women it's actually the other way around. In meat I always prefer the parts closer to the heart, for they contain the real courage of the animal!

@robjohn Last I checked, the thighs were a part of the legs. :-)

robjohn

5:09 PM

@AsafKaragila usually, when talking of chicken, they separate the thighs from the legs (which they often call drumsticks)

Asaf Karagila

Drool.

Well, except Kannappan, this would be blasphemous for him to drool on beef.

Kannappan Sampath

:-)

N3buchadnezzar

5:28 PM

\begin{align}
&\text{The battle of fonts: Round }1 \\
&\text{Messing with me is not wise} \\
&\text{cause I am the master of }\backslash\text{textsize} ! \\
&\text{Take a seat over here you bride} \\
&\text{and enjoy the}\textbf{ whole }\text{ride } \\
&\text{on my} \backslash\text{scriptsize} \text{hard hitting train!} \\
&\text{I got} \backslash\text{large}, \backslash\text{bold} \text{ and } \backslash\text{mathcal ,} \\
&\text{there is no way you could beat me pal!} \\
&\text{Maybe you should go back to word} \\

Wo!

Kannappan Sampath

@N3buchadnezzar :-) Poetry!!

N3buchadnezzar

5:46 PM

Tex in chat here often is complicated

Kannappan Sampath

6:02 PM

Hi @Dylan!

Dylan Moreland

Hi @KannappanSampath.

How's this algebra project of yours going?

Kannappan Sampath

Quite fine, I should say. We are making progress, but slowly. @Dylan

@Dylan I wanted to ask something. Are you OK now?

It is more about notation, less about idea.

Is $0$ considered a zero-divisor?

Dylan Moreland

In a non-zero ring, yes.

Kannappan Sampath

But, Dummit and Foote say otherwise.

Dylan Moreland

Because I think the definition is "$a$ is a zero-divisor if there exists a non-zero $b$ in the ring such that $ab = 0$".

But it's just a matter of convenient definitions. Nothing important.

Kannappan Sampath

6:13 PM

@DylanMoreland DF say that $a \neq 0$ explicitly!

Dylan Moreland

Probably the definition I'm thinking of is the one in Atiyah-Macdonald.

Kannappan Sampath

@DylanMoreland Atiyah of course uses your definition, which I found odd after reading DF.

@Dylan will you be able to talk at CA room?

Dylan Moreland

Sure. I might be a little distracted.

Kannappan Sampath

Oh, fine then. Let me get to reading then. See you Dylan. Have a good time ahead!

Another trivia I've been having problem with is this proposition: If $R$ has an identity, then, $1 \neq 0$. Is this not a matter of convention? @Dylan

Dylan Moreland

@KannappanSampath $0 = 1$ implies that $R = \{0\}$.

So it's certainly possible. I don't see any reason to require that rings be non-zero.

Your category has a final object, then! That's good.

Kannappan Sampath

6:29 PM

I get your first point. So, it is possible for rings to have identity and still have $1=0$, like the $0$ ring, right?

Dylan Moreland

Only the zero ring, yeah.

Kannappan Sampath

(I contend: the multiplicative identity in $0$ ring is $0$, no?)

Dylan Moreland

Yep.

Kannappan Sampath

:-)

Thank you for the help!

Dylan Moreland

The point is that every element has to be zero, since $1 \cdot a = 0 \cdot a = 0$.

Kannappan Sampath

6:37 PM

Yes, this is in fact the one-liner behind: "If $1 =0$, then the ring is the zero ring".

Ilya

7:30 PM

@Jonas: are you here?

@Ilya Correct.

how are you?

@Ilya I'm fine. You?

@Jonas: I'm ok, thanks. Do you see anything strange in the last formula here? Hint: it is not related to stochastic stuff.

Jonas Teuwen

@Ilya It does not make sense to me, you have a limit $t \to 0$ on the RHS you do have a $t$!

Ilya

7:36 PM

indeed. and I think upvoters missed that typo - there should be $B_1$

I will fix it

Jonas Teuwen

Even, then, does the limit of that integral for $t \to 1$ exist as in is finite?

Otherwise you seem to have $0 \times$ something finite.

Ilya

as in is finite?

nope, denominator tends to zero, right?

@Jonas: maybe I miss your point

Jonas Teuwen

@Ilya Why is the last limit not $0$?

Oh, right :-).

Ilya

@Jonas: because the integral is infinite

Jonas Teuwen

@Ilya So you have $B_s \sim s$?

Ilya

7:44 PM

I don't think so

Jonas Teuwen

Okay, why is it infinite?

Ilya

because the denominator tends to zero at the upper limit when t = 1

Jonas Teuwen

Oh, wait, yes. But if the numerator goes to say $(1 - s)^{1 + \epsilon}$ then it would be finite right?

Ilya

no, it would be finite for $1-\epsilon$ I think, since it is close to zero

for infinity you have $1+\epsilon$

Jonas Teuwen

@Ilya For $\epsilon < 0$ 8-).

Ilya

7:48 PM

:-p you didn't mean it :)

@Jonas: I have also forgotten which Geln whiskey you have advised me to start with

Glen Taloch?

Jonas Teuwen

Yes, but I explicitly didn't mention it because I didn't really think :P.

@Ilya Laphroaig! Or Glenlivet.

Ilya

let me check their prices...

Jonas Teuwen

I think that Laphroaig 10 yr is about 40€.

whiskysite.nl/nl/Laphroaig/Laphroaig-10-yrs?keyword=laphroaig Not even 30€ here :-).

Ilya

40 in G&G

Glenlivet 12y is 25 there

@Jonas: but whiskysite does not have its shops, does it?

Jonas Teuwen

@Ilya I think they do, but I usually order online.

Ilya

7:57 PM

@JonasTeuwen how long does it usually take? and how to they deliver it?

@Henning: good evening

Jonas Teuwen

@Ilya One day.

Henning Makholm

@Ilya Evening. 'Sup?

Ilya

@Jonas: to your house? can you specify the time to pick up? and how much the delivery cost?

@Henning: nothing. how are you doing? haven't seen you for a long time

Jonas Teuwen

@Ilya Depends on what you order, you can check the site. Usually you can't decide what the delivery times are but then they drop it with the neighbors.

Henning Makholm

Doing well. We must have been out of phase. I'm not as active as a few months ago, though.

Ilya

7:59 PM

@JonasTeuwen I should maybe order it to my office then :)

Jonas Teuwen

:-).

Asaf Karagila

8:18 PM

Whatever he does, Ilya, do not go to his house. The mangled bodies of little boys lie there in piles. You do not want a part of that, unless you're one of those serial killers that roamed the USSR 30 years ago.

Matt N.

Night folks. See you tomorrow.

Kannappan Sampath

8:51 PM

Why did I get a ping about an event in the TeX.SE chat room. Strange!

David Wheeler

why does asaf hate diagram chasing? (do they run too fast for him?)

Asaf Karagila

Because it's an annoying way to do mathematics.

Kannappan Sampath

9:07 PM

@Asaf Will this Answer the Unanswered event work for this site?

Asaf Karagila

I'm not sure what you mean.

Kannappan Sampath

@AsafKaragila Well, apparently the TeX.SE people organise an event through the chat, where they try to look into those questions that are unanwered or could be closed or all of that kind. You get it now, I think.

Asaf Karagila

Have you been to the tex.SE room before?

Kannappan Sampath

@AsafKaragila Not quite frequently. Today, yes. I got that strange ping!

Asaf Karagila

Perhaps this is why you got this ping.

Kannappan Sampath

9:11 PM

@AsafKaragila Oh, I see! Thank you for your enlightenment.

Asaf Karagila

My Enlightenment? :-)

Kannappan Sampath

:-)

Asaf Karagila

Hah! I was about to post a meta thread about a miscalculation of the helpful flags count, but then I realized that my summation was wrong! :-)

Kannappan Sampath

@AsafKaragila You must really chase some of those diagrams. I tell you, you'll be cool with it. My M.Math friends here seem to like it!

Asaf Karagila

Your M.Math friends?

Kannappan Sampath

9:17 PM

@AsafKaragila My friends studying M.Math here at my place. Sorry, I realise that sounds odd!

Asaf Karagila

No, that was fine. What does M.Math mean?

Kannappan Sampath

M.Math = Master of Mathematics.

Asaf Karagila

Ah.

N3buchadnezzar

10:12 PM

We do not have those in norway

Eg, if you say you are studying math, it is a given you are getting a masters degree.

Asaf Karagila

Same here.

Kannappan Sampath

Well, in India, the course I am now attending is, called B.Math=Bachelor in Mathematics.

Then, the analytic continuation is that M.Math thingy!

N3buchadnezzar

@KannappanSampath We get a choice!

Algebra, Analysis, algebraic topology, nummerical, etc

Is it okay, If I ask a couple (3) yes or no questions about series? =)

Kannappan Sampath

@N3buchadnezzar Yes. It's fine!

N3buchadnezzar

=)

"If $\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} a_n$ converges, and $\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} (-1)^n a_n $ converges then
$\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} a_n$ converges absolutely. "

I would say yes on this one, because it is sort of the definition of absolute convergence.

Kannappan Sampath

10:25 PM

@N3buchadnezzar Yes, right.

N3buchadnezzar

If $\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} a_n$ converges absolutely
then $\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} a_n$ converges absolutely.

Dylan Moreland

I would say no.

N3buchadnezzar

A tad unsure about this one, I would say yes. But I do not have a good reason why.

ops

Dylan Moreland

Did you paste in the same problem?

Look at $a_n = (-1)^n \frac{1}{n}$, for the first one.

N3buchadnezzar

@DylanMoreland Changed

Kannappan Sampath

10:27 PM

By convergence, I consider absolute convergence, I am not pretty sure with this stuff.

@N3buchadnezzar What, Tautology!

N3buchadnezzar

@DylanMoreland But $(-1)^n a_n$ diverges!

Dylan Moreland

Shift the indices.

Er, maybe I misread.

N3buchadnezzar

If $\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} a_n$ converges absolutely, then $\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} (-1)^n a_n $ converges absolutely.

Dylan Moreland

This MathJax crap is really messing with my head.

It doesn't work well anymore.

N3buchadnezzar

@DylanMoreland Yes

Dylan Moreland

10:29 PM

But you need a proof, not a feeling.

N3buchadnezzar

@DylanMoreland I know

I would say that since a_n converges, and a_n \geq (-1)^n a_n then (-1)^n a_n converges.

(I did not use a formula there because of mathjax being douchy)

Dylan Moreland

Maybe I should take a look at the script.

Blargh.

Kannappan Sampath

Have people shifted to the MathJax 2.0 beta version?

@N3buchadnezzar

@Dylan

N3buchadnezzar

@KannappanSampath Yes

Dylan Moreland

Yes. Was that a mistake?

Kannappan Sampath

10:35 PM

Then, it must be OK, I think.

Rob said, the previous version is no more OK.

(I mean that's dead. RIP)

Dylan Moreland

The problem with conditionally convergent series is that there's only one example that ever comes into mind.

Kannappan Sampath

@Dylan Did you read that MO thread about linear Algebra problems?

N3buchadnezzar

@DylanMoreland oh?

Dylan Moreland

@KannappanSampath Link? Can't remember such a thing.

Kannappan Sampath

@DylanMoreland This

Asaf Karagila

10:49 PM

Hm. I have an hour to get like six votes.

Someone find me a good question to answer.

Kannappan Sampath

Measure theory, OK?

BTW, Is this question reasonable for the site?

Dylan Moreland

Well, at least he allows for the possibility that it isn't.

Unlike the guy who started asking programming questions here, "because StackOverflow banned me"

Kannappan Sampath

@DylanMoreland That was funny! : )

Asaf Karagila

Hmpf. I am frustrated by the fact that Magidor told me a really cool thing on Thursday and I cannot really share it with anyone.

robjohn

@AsafKaragila why not?

@KannappanSampath Some people find code questions objectionable here and others are more accepting.

Asaf Karagila

10:56 PM

Because the sentence "You shoot a prikry sequence into the measure on $P_\kappa(\kappa^{+\omega})$, then you collapse $\kappa$ to $\aleph_1$ and take the symmetric model of things definable by $<\kappa$ many conditions" would make no sense to most people.

Kannappan Sampath

@robjohn I fall in the former category although I don't harm the questioner with downvotes, leave alone close votes!

robjohn

@AsafKaragila I can believe that :-)

@KannappanSampath I have yet to downvote anyone, yet for some reason, I have a Critic badge.

Kannappan Sampath

@robjohn Are you serious?

I thought you do downvote.

robjohn

@KannappanSampath Check my profile...

Kannappan Sampath

You also upvote less. (565 in 7 months)

Asaf Karagila

11:00 PM

@robjohn Believe what?

Kannappan Sampath

Look at me: $\uparrow 641$ and $\downarrow 67$ all in 2 months!

robjohn

@KannappanSampath I have not been here a year yet.

I guess I spend more time answering questions.

Asaf Karagila

BOO-YAH!!!

robjohn

@AsafKaragila Yes?

Asaf Karagila

That was a great comeback! :-)

robjohn

11:03 PM

@AsafKaragila I wasn't trying to be snide, I was just thinking that I take longer to answer the questions that I answer. However, take it anyway you like :-)

Asaf Karagila

@robjohn Oh, I'm sure you were sincere. It's still a great comeback! :-)

sigh Victor...

robjohn

Oh, I just notice that Ilya was here as his gravatar floats off the screen :-(

@AsafKaragila You need to spoon feed some people :-)

Dylan Moreland

If I had placed a 20 minute time limit on my study of the p-adics, I would not have gotten very far into number theory.

Asaf Karagila

@DylanMoreland Good thing you're not Victor.

2

Hmpf... the topology assignment is due tomorrow. I have done absolutely almost nothing at all.

Dylan Moreland

I might try to write something for that later.

Matt would do a better job, but he seems pretty busy this week.

Gigili

11:08 PM

@DylanMoreland It's deleted.

Dylan Moreland

Ah, maybe not then :)

@N3buchadnezzar Any progress?

Asaf Karagila

@robjohn Believe what?

Kannappan Sampath

:----------------------------^ )

Henning Makholm

@DylanMoreland The same guy asked a series of increasingly helpless calculus questions here in the fall. If he's acted similarly unwilling to learn at SO, then it's no wonder they banned him.

Asaf Karagila

Who was that?

Henning Makholm

11:15 PM

@AsafKaragila Jordan.

robjohn

@AsafKaragila That your sentence wouldn't make sense to some people.

user19161

@KannappanSampath Is that a long nose?

Kannappan Sampath

@JasperLoy Yes, definitely!

user19161

@KannappanSampath Are you done with the exams?

Kannappan Sampath

@JasperLoy Yes, I am done with all of them. (these were the Mid-Semester Exams)

user19161

11:21 PM

@KannappanSampath Hmm, those are usually called tests. :-)

Kannappan Sampath

@JasperLoy Well. We call them exams. And, they are bit taxing too.

Gigili

@JasperLoy I thought you knew when I said I don't need A but rather B.

Henning Makholm

Votes needed here.

user19161

@Gigili Er, I thought you are you know what which is OK too.

Gigili

@JasperLoy I haz dat, ye.

user19161

11:27 PM

@Gigili You have that? That sentence does not make sense.

Gigili

@JasperLoy I was talking nonsense, didn't understand your message.

user19161

Sometimes I guess wrongly what people say semisecretly on SE. :-)

Gigili

Oh, makes sense.

user19161

@Gigili OK nvm, but at least now I know you are she. :-) Anyway I hope you get into a college of your choice.

Gigili

@JasperLoy Thank you. =)

user19161

11:30 PM

@Gigili Now it feels so weird Mahnax and I gave you the magic camera. It's just that cameras are not usually associated with girls!

user19161

But I almost never used a camera myself, kind of primitive when it comes to using technology.

user19161

The most advanced thing I use is my Debian!

Gigili

Eh but that helped me, I was doing a class in photography at that time.

user19161

Oh Ubuntu 12.04 beta1 is out for those who wanna install.

Asaf Karagila

@robjohn Oh :-)

Gigili

11:33 PM

@JasperLoy Is it? Juhuu.

Kannappan Sampath

@JasperLoy I am confused with the conversation. If I may ask, do you send things to people whom you know only online?

user19161

@Gigili I have not seen people spell it as juhuu before.

Asaf Karagila

@HenningMakholm I voted to delete that.

Gigili

@JasperLoy Maybe because it's the German version.

user19161

@KannappanSampath It is not a real camera. :-)

Kannappan Sampath

11:35 PM

@JasperLoy Adding confusion to Chaos. Makes no difference! :-)

user19161

And no I don't send things to people I know only online, except possibly emails. :-)

user19161

@KannappanSampath The "camera" is just some joke we had on ELU, that's all!

Gigili

Whoa, that's very exciting. Thank you @JasperLoy.

Kannappan Sampath

@JasperLoy Oh. I see! ;-)

user19161

@Gigili Now I am confused. What is so exciting?

Asaf Karagila

11:37 PM

Ecstasy is exciting, or so I've heard.

Gigili

@JasperLoy Ubuntu 12.04

user19161

Now this room is getting Incomprehensible, just like ELU room.

Asaf Karagila

What do you mean now?

@Gigili Ubuntu is GNU/Windows.

Henning Makholm

Cameras are exciting too. The incoming photons excite electrons in the CCD, which are then driven apart by an electric field.

user19161

@AsafKaragila I mean sometimes I don't get what another means, but I guess that is a common SE phenomenon.

David Wheeler

11:38 PM

i wouldn't say ecstasy is exciting...just sort of pleasant

user19161

@AsafKaragila Just don't take ecstasy pills. No drugs please children.

Asaf Karagila

@DavidWheeler Well, I've never had E.

user19161

No amphetamines, no LSD. Caffeine is enough for mathematics.

David Wheeler

i have no reason to suppose you have

Asaf Karagila

Tell that to Erdos.

David K.

11:39 PM

@AsafKaragila beat me too it.

user19161

I am just trying to spread good habits here.

Asaf Karagila

Being Erdos is a good habit.

David Wheeler

at my college, someone once did a thesis on the mathematical patterns of hallucinations...interesting stuff

Asaf Karagila

Awesome. Did they buy LSD with the research grant?

:3679589 That if you do a lot of speed you'll die? Perhaps, but if you won't do any drugs you'll die just as well.

user19161

@Gigili I prefer Debian.

David Wheeler

11:41 PM

no idea...i can say from personal experience that meth and math don't mix very well...did that once and proved the power set with symmetric difference and intersection formed a ring....was so excitied by this...i proved it again....and again....and again.....

user19161

I think Jonas will switch to Debian too once Wheezy is out.

user19161

He is using Arch now.

Asaf Karagila

He switched to Arch and Awesome.

Arch + awesome > any other linux combination.

user19161

Although PCLinuxOS is rolling some of the packages are so old it makes no point.

user19161

It is a rolling distro that does not really roll.

David Wheeler

11:42 PM

you would define an order on OS's wouldn't you?

Asaf Karagila

@DavidWheeler Me? Nah, I just claim what is the best one. I don't care about the rest of the order.

user19161

For me Debian is the only element in the order.

Asaf Karagila

It's like a model for some axioms. I give one axiom "Arch + awesome is maximum." and I will let you come up with the interpretation, as long as it is a model of this axiom.

Henning Makholm

Strictly speaking you have only asserted that a+a is maximum among Linux combination. There might be a model in which Windows ME ranks higher.

Kannappan Sampath

LOL...

Asaf Karagila

11:45 PM

Well, my axiom implies that Arch+awesome is the maximum in Linux combinations.

user19161

@KannappanSampath If you laugh too much you may get a stitch.

Asaf Karagila

@HenningMakholm Also, Windows ME is worse than anything. Even itself.

2

David Wheeler

srsly? windows ME? the ballmer's peak gone haywire?

user19161

@AsafKaragila Wait for Windows 8 end of 2012 I think.

user19161

It will have an app store like Mac.

Henning Makholm

11:46 PM

@JasperLoy So that's what the Mayans predicted?

N3buchadnezzar

ohai

Asaf Karagila

Huh, so you say it's not a coincidence that the world ends in December 2012? It's a hype for Win8?

user19161

@HenningMakholm I really don't mind if everything ends this year.

Asaf Karagila

@JasperLoy I would rather everything to end tonight.

user19161

@AsafKaragila You have a crisis too like me?

Asaf Karagila

11:47 PM

I do not want to face tomorrow with its consequences.

@JasperLoy What crisis do you have?

Henning Makholm

@AsafKaragila More like co-hype, I would think. Spread my militant Linux evangelists.

user19161

@AsafKaragila It is a secret. I will reveal it in a few years if and when I overcome it.

Asaf Karagila

@HenningMakholm You have militant Linux evangelists??

@JasperLoy Who says you'll overcome?

Henning Makholm

@AsafKaragila Some. Not too many.

user19161

@AsafKaragila Are you trying to be discouraging or does that sentence have the alternative meaning?

Asaf Karagila

11:49 PM

@HenningMakholm Then you should spread them in strategic locations.

@JasperLoy Who says it has any meaning?

user19161

@AsafKaragila I think you are drunk, but I am not joking about my crisis. :-)

Asaf Karagila

@JasperLoy I'm not drunk. I haven't had a drop of booze for a few days now.

Henning Makholm

oh, s/my/by/. Damn fingers.

Gigili

@JasperLoy He's always drunk, except when he is not.

Asaf Karagila

I am asking, in all seriousness, who says it has meaning?

@HenningMakholm Noooowwww you get it! :-)

user19161

11:51 PM

@Gigili Tautology.

user19161

@AsafKaragila Then why say it if it has no meaning at all?

Asaf Karagila

@JasperLoy I never said it has no meaning.

user19161

@AsafKaragila Good, too much alcohol is bad for health.

Kannappan Sampath

@HenningMakholm Makes no sense to me. Will you write up something so I can understand that!

user19161

@AsafKaragila So you say something that only you can understand, weird.

Asaf Karagila

11:52 PM

@JasperLoy I agree with that, but if you didn't die, it's not too much.

@JasperLoy Me? I'm the last person to understand.

user19161

@AsafKaragila Well, as long as you and your gf understand each other.

user19161

I am still single, heh.

Asaf Karagila

@KannappanSampath He made a typo and wrote "my" instead of "by". The regex code "s/my/by" is a common way to say "replace the word my by the word by everywhere", thus correcting the sentence.

@JasperLoy Don't you drag her into that, jerk.

user19161

@AsafKaragila Anyway I hope you enjoyed the chicken and yam.

Asaf Karagila

Meh.

Henning Makholm

11:54 PM

Okay, own up guys. How many of you have let Eliza bots do your chatting tonight?

user19161

@HenningMakholm What's that?

Asaf Karagila

The yams were kinda old, and took more than I expected to cook properly. It made the chicken somewhat dry.