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5:00 PM
That is, if I understood it correctly, but other people I know with other jobs have a similar thing.
 
@JonasTeuwen ah, you didn't know that
@JonasTeuwen and the 3rd or 4th year it is 2600
@HenningMakholm the system is the following: you receive montly your salary. Plus: you can take 41 day off (8 weeks or 2 months as you wrote). Plus: two times per year you receive almost the whole salary as 8% allowance
though for the first year of course it would be just 8% of the salary you received prior to the end of year
@Jonas: my wife is working here in a private company with a boss from US. they have 20 days off so it's hard for my to spent all my 41 day
and I can use only like 7 of them to cover my travelling expenses because IKA does not allow use more.
so 14 days off, or three weeks of holidays is just my gift to uni
 
Well, you could take time off without necessarily traveling anywhere, right?
 
@HenningMakholm yes, but I can do it even without telling my supervisor
if we don't have a meeting some day, he don't care where I am. he just cares for work to be done in time
@HenningMakholm I remember that Oslo uni in Norway offered position with 400k NOK per year. that's quite a lot, about 50k EUR. Though taxes there are high. And cigarettes are extremely expensive
@tb hi ) I believe that in ETH PhD's salary is about 3.5k?
 
Well, I think it helps the conscience to know that one is not even supposed to be thinking about research for such-and-such days.
 
@HenningMakholm maybe, but nobody will do my work for me. I wouldn't relax that days, so I don't mind much about them.
 
5:13 PM
@Gortaur more like twice that amount
(remember that Switzerland is hellishly expensive, Zurich especially so)
 
@tb sorry, I meant euros
 
me too
 
@Gortaur 400 kNOK is not for a PhD student, is it? Would sound incredibly generous even with Norwegian taxes and cost-of-living.
 
@HenningMakholm ok, maybe 389k. That was for a PhD certainly
@tb 7k euros. for PhD. per month. for most PhDs. I though it was about 5k CHF
 
@Gortaur Wow, that's 50% above what I earned as a postdoc in DK (which was on the same scale as junior tenure-track faculty).
 
5:18 PM
@Gortaur yes, here's the official list PhD students get class 15, PhDs 18.
 
Ah, so we're distinguishing between PhD students and people who have a PhD. Confusing.
 
@HenningMakholm indeed
@tb apparently I've found the wrong information the first time, thanks for clarification. Since the link you provided is a Swiss law, I guess any PhD in Switzerland is paid by class 15, isn't it?
 
Impressed.
 
@Gortaur These are the salary classes of federal employees, so that's only applicable to ETH/EPFL. At universities it's usually a bit less. (And I find it confusing to call PhD students PhD's, by the way)
 
@HenningMakholm those Swedes who lived in the south used to work in Denmark because of Danish salaries and Swedish cost of live (which is less then Dutch)
@tb I'm sorry if it offended you (since you're a PhD already and though I hope that was not offencive). In informal talks here they use PhD for students and Doctor for those who finished their PhD
 
5:30 PM
You haven't offended me :) I never heard this usage, so I was confused.
 
@tb have I ever done it?
 
@Gortaur: Not that I remember. I wouldn't dare to hold grudges against Sauron --- or voice them publicly, rather :)
 
@tb at least some benefit from this nick )
@tb so, nice evening. I've impressed Henning, you've impressed me. Still I have to finish my work, so see you later, Theo
 
See you Gortaur!
 
@tb just the last question ) and which level refers to a PostDoc, 18? that's not because I'd like to know your salary, but rather thinking about future possibilities for myself
 
5:40 PM
Some people are just never satisfied :-)
 
@Gortaur As I said, a post-doc gets employed with class 18 at ETH.
 
@robjohn that's a pity not to know concave functions
 
concave and convex functions are nice tools to have.
especially when trying to prove inequalities.
 
no doubts. in such inequalities are even crucial
 
@Gortaur Thanks for the information.
 
5:46 PM
@JonasTeuwen there is a sort of problem that there is a lot of information and nuances that you will not learn and stomach from the beginning
if you need any suggestion/help, if you have any question about that stuff - just tell me, I will do what I can
 
@Gortaur Thanks! I will remember that.
 
@Jonas: have you found a room?
 
For my thesis? No not yet.
I've tried to arrange something on the 16th floor but the secretary is on a holiday.
 
@JonasTeuwen Is it that bulky that you need an extra room for storage?
 
@tb For the presentation accompanying my thesis.*
 
5:57 PM
Got it. Just couldn't resist...
@JonasTeuwen I wanted to ask you for a long time already: how is your last name pronounced? Would a German pronounce it more or less correctly when reading it out in German?
 
@tb More like Toiwun I think.
(that would be how it sounds like if a German reads it out in German)
 
@Jonas Oh, I just noticed. You too cut off your second name from your handle?
 
@tb: It seems that I am not going to write that pdf about Lauchli's proof after all.
 
Which is not correct. I will think about it.
@Srivatsan The chat does that, my full name is still my handle.
 
@JonasTeuwen Thanks, that's approximately what I imagined.
@AsafKaragila why?
 
6:02 PM
@tb I think Töwen.
 
@tb I am going to write an M.Sc. thesis about it instead :-)
 
Ah, no i, then, alright.
 
Be right back.
 
@AsafKaragila That makes sense, and you're going to write this in Word, I presume?
 
@tb Word? I don't even have Windows... :-)
 
6:03 PM
@tb Eww... :(
That reminds me. I must get MS Office from somewhere...
 
@Srivatsan why? openoffice.org
 
@tb I hope you are kidding, @tb. =)
 
@Srivatsan nope, I was trying to be helpful :)
 
@tb I am not following the progress of Openoffice, but if it is anything like how it was a few years ago, I am not sure I want it. =)
Don't you find the output ugly?
 
6:07 PM
Well, I never really used it. I only use it when I receive stuff that I don't really want to open but absolutely have to.
 
You could reply to the e-mail and ask about a .pdf @tb.
 
@JonasTeuwen Well, some people want you to fill out tables/documents that they can use further after you send them back.
 
I was talking to some guy from TAU about writing, and I dismissed Word output and he looked a bit offended... turned out that he's extremely far from technology and does not know LaTeX, so he writes his thesis in Word.
 
@tb But that is also possible with .pdf! But maybe most people don't know how to do that...
@AsafKaragila What is TAU?
 
@tb Oh, that makes sense. I switch to my Mac machine when I need to do that. =)
 
6:10 PM
Tel Aviv University.
 
@JonasTeuwen The maybe is the BIG proviso, here
@AsafKaragila Well, a few years ago, one guy wrote the transcript of the course "methods in mathematical physics" using word and the formula editor gadget. The entire course consists of calculations only. I don't know how he had the nerves to do that...
2
 
Yikes.
 
Sounds like a fun course. I did one of those as well, but the guy always did \displaystyle after a $, even for matrices. Hardly readable.
 
Hello, why when x approaches a from right side (from right side is a correct term?) x^2 approaches it too?
 
@Gigili If "it" is a^2, then yes :) I prefer to say "from above", but "from the right" is fine, too, I guess.
@JonasTeuwen Well, you read German, don't you? Then look at these nice notes by Felder.
 
6:16 PM
@tb Yes. They look nice but I think I know most of it, I'll check it out in more detail.
 
@tb Thank you, actually it's not a^2 .. it's written "when x approaches 1 from the right, x^2 approaches 1 from the right as well" .. I don't understand why
 
Oh, I don't know everything of part II.
 
@Gigili Well, look at this. Yes, 1^2 = 1, right? The point is that on the positive real axis x^2 is monotonically increasing.
 
Hmm, I think I have solved my own problem.
 
@JonasTeuwen There are some nicely worked out examples in that script. Those you might not know. The theory is already in your vegetative nervous system, I guess :)
 
6:20 PM
@tb 1^2 =1 but not 1(from the right) ^2 , no?
 
@tb Yes, they look quite nice indeed.
 
@Jonas: the problem that I am looking at?
 
@robjohn The one with the Mehler kernel? I'm not sure yet, I might be mistaken...
But I get exponential decay in z^2 and w^2.
 
@tb Oh I got the point, thank you.
 
@Gigili If 0 < a < b then a^2 < b^2.
 
6:22 PM
@Jonas: I have not been able to spend too many cycles on it, but I was wondering about the following:
 
Yes.
 
@Gigili Very good, then! No problem, you're welcome!
 
e^{t^2L} is a diff op, right?
 
@robjohn $L$ is a diff op.
e^{t^2 L} is its semigroup (bounded and strongly continuous) of the closure of L.
(Closure in L²(gamma))
And e^{tL} f(x) = int_{R^d) M_t(x, y) f(y) dy.
 
okay, so I am misinterpreting e^{t^2L}.
 
6:24 PM
heh, I like this typo :) especially the second one.
 
Oh, I thought that was standard.
@tb Cool!
 
@tb I like that it was spelled button, and then buttom.
 
@robjohn You can't define it with a power series, so you need something like Hille-Yosida or Lumer-Philips.
 
@tb The plot helped a lot. Are you German? If I may ask.
 
@Gigili I'm Swiss. I live in Zurich.
 
6:28 PM
Maybe Belgium should send a delegation to Switzerland. There they seem to have multiple languages in one country without bashing each others head.
 
@JonasTeuwen okay, I guess I should think of it like e^{t\;d/dx} which is a shift operator and does not actually require smoothness of its operand.
 
@robjohn Yes.
 
@tb Toll, War nett mit dir zu plaudern. =)
 
@JonasTeuwen I liked the RTBF secession hoax :)
 
Heh, yes.
 
6:32 PM
@Gigili Ebenso! Man sieht sich :)
(guess I've got the English gear installed).
@JonasTeuwen Maybe you haven't heard of the Jura secession? So much for not bashing each others' heads...
I bet the Mathemagician will write a long answer for that if he sees it :)
 
@tb Hmm, I didn't know about that :-).
 
@JonasTeuwen I distinctly remember this when the Béliers destroyed the Gerechtigkeitsbrunnen in Bern.
 
6:55 PM
@tb: Are you behind the pending executions yesterday?
 
@AsafKaragila I think so, yes.
 
Then we need @JM to close the deal.
 
@tb 1_1 = 1_1*1_2 = 1_2
Now let me say that in three pages...
 
@robjohn like this? or rather like this?
 
@tb I take it from your comment that this is a habit with Mathemagician.
 
7:03 PM
@tb But that is not how it is anymore right?
@AsafKaragila What executions?
 
Deleting threads.
 
@Jonas: I will have to think some more on that integral. Let me know if you find the proper estimate.
 
Is this Mathemagician a troll?
 
@Jonas: Things have calmed down a little, yes.
 
@robjohn I will! I'm preparing coffee now. After that I will verify.
 
7:07 PM
@JonasTeuwen I don't really think so. but see here.
 
@tb Is that the same guy?
 
@Jonas: yes, look at the blog he links to in the profile here.
 
Hah, funny.
 
And ... the infinite monkeys have risen from the dead.
 
Are there people doing harmonic analysis or SPDE at the ETHZ?
 
7:14 PM
@HenningMakholm I hope protection is enough...
 
I say voting for closure.
 
Well, calling it off-topic was certainly not right.
 
@Henning: There are some threads awaiting deletion.
You should take a look at the mod tool tab on the 2d tab.
There should be a closing reason "No longer relevant."
 
@AsafKaragila why?
 
@AsafKaragila None that I can see ...
 
7:17 PM
@tb Because a question which is now CW, with 43298573 answers, and 34827908573249578 deleted answers is just no longer relevant.
@Henning: Consider the past week's votes, not just today's. math.stackexchange.com/tools?tab=delete&daterange=last7days
 
@JonasTeuwen Sure, e.g. Struwe, Rivière (analysis) and Soner , Schweizer (SPDEs)
 
@AsafKaragila No fair, you 10K+ elitists ;-p
 
Oh, I see.
 
@robjohn: By a week I think you'll be in the elite.
Or to quote the movie "Freaks" - ONE OF US! ONE OF US!
 
@tb Nice! Thanks.
Too bad the SPDE people are finance people.
 
7:21 PM
@Henning, @tb: Why did you vote to reopen the Hamlet question?
 
@AsafKaragila So I have to get my scorn in now, then :-D
 
Haha :-)
 
@JonasTeuwen Well, who uses that stuff? They're excellent analysts, both of them. Of course, before his retirement there was Delbaen
 
@AsafKaragila Because I think claiming that it is off topic sends the wrong signal to new visitors.
 
7:25 PM
@AsafKaragila Same here. We can close it if it needs be, but I guess the frenzy is over now. We've got Batman, Hilbert Hotel and Tetris, now.
 
Some delete votes cast. The remaining one I'm not quite sure about. It seems that the main perceived problem with the question was that it was too easy? As long as it's closed I don't think it's a net loss to let the Hahn-Banach references in the comment thread stay visible.
 
@tb: Can you take this? I just vote deletion because I like abusing my power on the topic. :-)
 
@AsafKaragila well cast!
@AsafKaragila waiting for a link...
 
7:29 PM
@AsafKaragila I was wondering what t.b. was taking (or not).
 
Oh, I meant that he should answer to Henning.
 
@tb We also have W :-)
 
@robjohn No, now we have Obama.
 
@tb I actually felt that coming :-p
 
Yeah, it was too obvious :)
 
7:33 PM
Hehe
 
Do we really have Hilbert's Hotel? I cannot find it (as main topic of a question) with a few quick searches.
 
@HenningMakholm I meant this
 
I found the link just seconds too late :-(
@tb I think it's "what".
 
This guy has cool research!
 
@JonasTeuwen Ewww! Kissing numbers...
cooties
 
7:38 PM
He was in the committee of my BSc thesis. He asked me to compute what the result of 1_Q where Q is a cube is in the Lebesgue Differentiation Lemma!
 
@HenningMakholm I voted to close and then delete because OP left the building about half a year ago and never showed any interest but having homework questions answered for her. If someone else asks this question, I'll be happy to answer.
 
And me -full of stress- gave the wrong answer :-).
 
STD: Sequentially Transmitted Derivation --- a new definition of induction.
2
 
@robjohn That one is great! :D.
 
@tb Okay. Hmm, it doesn't even seem that we have an original-variant Monty Hall question. The closest I can find is this with not a lot of upvotes.
 
7:41 PM
He lost me at "I read this on wikipedia" :-D
 
@tb Oh, it's not as if I'll throw a fit if/when someone casts the closing vote. It's just not going to be me.
 
You mean deletion vote. It is closed already.
 
Yes I do.
@robjohn Reading stuff about Monty Hall on Wikipedia is fraught with danger. The article is a famous edit-war battleground and (IIRC) has been the subject of at least one arbitration committee case.
The point of contention? Whether or not the article should claim the problem can be understood without using the words "conditional probability"...
 
@HenningMakholm arbitration committee case?
 
The Arbitration Committee is the supreme court of Wikipedia. It can formally sentence trouble-making editors to bans and other sanctions.
 
7:48 PM
@HenningMakholm once the information that Monty knows the contents of the doors is removed, the question pretty much loses its teeth.
@HenningMakholm Ah, I see. Arbitration on Wikipedia.
 
@robjohn Yes, to us. But once you can see that teeth are lost in that situation, you can probably also solve the original variant without going wrong.
 
That's probably true. Once you have thought it through to that point, you understand what is going on.
 
@robjohn Would you have other ideas for that strange limit?
 
@JonasTeuwen which strange limit?
I must be losing my memory. I keep forgetting things today.
 
@robjohn This one.
 
7:54 PM
Today we had the local topology and logic seminar. The discussion was, in essence, on "the density of fat sets".
 
@JonasTeuwen Oh, I didn't make the connection. I haven't given it much thought, but I think that Robert Israel's answer on MO needs more explanation or is proving the wrong ratio.
consider the problem for (2sintanx - 2tansinx)/(arcsinarctan(x/2)-arctanarcsin(x/2))
where the functions have slope 2 instead of 1.
I think Robert's simple geometrical approach will give the wrong answer.
 
8:13 PM
This question (compute 5 last nonzero digits of 10¹²!) looks vaguely like it could be a Project Euler problem. Anyone know how to search those things?
 
@robjohn I think so too.
@robjohn That estimate gets quite messy :-).
 
Yes, just found it myself by linear scan :-)
 
I have developed a search algorithm which works at O(1).
 
Post the problem to MSE and wait for someone to identify it?
 
8:19 PM
No, I developed my algorithm when I was a freshman, five years ago.
It is called "Lazy search" and it goes as that. Suppose we want to search for a value in a table of n entries, randomly choose k<n and check the k-th entry. If it contains the value return it; otherwise return "I don't know, man."
 
@JonasTeuwen I can modify my argument quite easily and cleanly; I just need to know the order of sin(tan(x))-tan(sin(x))
 
more like a search stoner
 
@Jonas: it is x^7
 
In computer science you get to dignify that by calling it "angelic nondeterminism".
 
That would be a modification of the Lazy search by changing the return value for not-found to be "Dave's not here, man."
 
8:22 PM
and that agrees with the 2^8=256 that I get.
 
@robjohn Yes, I knew that already. Should have said. You can take two odd-degree polynomials, substitute and see what happens.
Estimating 1 - exp(-2*t^2) <= 1 is a bit a too crude bound it appears.
 
Are project Euler problems considered off topic?
 
I think it depends on how you ask them.
There's a tag for that, after all.
 
I was two seconds behind you on that.
 
8:38 PM
@AsafKaragila Thanks for that. I guess it won't happen to me that I accidentally answer such a question, anyway...
(looked at projecteuler.net for the first time now - not my cup of tea)
 
I used to solve some stuff there when I was trying to learn Common Lisp.
I did a few problems, but now I believe that I'd go for the pen&paper+w|a
 
3
Q: Re: Project Euler questions

Douglas S. StonesThere seems to be something quite dissatisfying about questions that simply copy/paste questions from Project Euler. For example: http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/9259/find-the-sum-of-all-the-multiples-of-3-or-5-below-1000 From the Project Euler website: I solved it by using a searc...

 
@Srivatsan We know, and there are two meta threads on that (three if you count the old one..)
 
@Srivatsan Nice. I've added my $0.02 US @t.b. I noticed your link also
 
@AsafKaragila (ah, and you still don't write like this?)
 
@AsafKaragila I can see it.
 
@AsafKaragila Er, sorry. I didn't know the debate about reopening it. I just happened to see a new answer...
 
@tb (write (polish :notation t (excessive parenthesis (can I))))
@robjohn Prove it, copy&paste the contents of the linked answer.
 
The answer Asaf linked to reads in its entirety: "You are a monkey ass. What a dumb ass. Now blog about your ass."
5
 
8:46 PM
@AsafKaragila Ah, I see the question, not the answer you intended.
 
102
Q: Given an infinite number of monkeys and an infinite amount of time, would one of them write Hamlet?

JasonOf course, we've all heard the colloquialism "If a bunch of monkeys pound on a typewriter, eventually one of them will write Hamlet." I have a (not very mathematically intelligent) friend who presented it as if it were a mathematical fact. Which got me thinking... Is this really true? Of cours...

 
IMO, while that answer is well and truly off-topic, that doesn't make the question so.
 
=)
 
@robjohn No deleted stuff for you! Come back one week!
 
oh my god, when did THAT happen? 0_o
 
8:47 PM
Scroll up.
 
Crap. I'm behind on the convo.
 
:)
 
@AlexeiAverchenko If it's any consolation, I just did that same mistake a few minutes back. =)
 
Maybe we could just "star" the first mention of it, for future reference?!
 
8:50 PM
I'll probably unpin that in a day or two.
 
I like Simon's answer 8)
12
A: Given an infinite number of monkeys and an infinite amount of time, would one of them write Hamlet?

SimonHamlet was indeed written after a finite number of monkeys (Shakespeare was a a primate from the family Hominidae!)

 
I don't. It's the kind of silliness that got an innocent question closed.
 
There are no innocent questions. Questions always have some hidden agenda and it is usually related to a nuclear war, murdering your parents or stealing your kidneys.
 
Cool, I have calculated for four hours to obtain exponential growth and hence divergence.
 
@TheChaz Is my English/Yiddish failing on me or is "beeing an offensive chutzpah" as weird a thing to say as it seems to me?
 
8:58 PM
he edited in the word chutzpah
 
it feels weird taking up reading MO. I feel mostly two things:
 
What is a chutzpah? :D.
 
1) WAY more differential geometry
2) dumb
 
@anon oh, I see. Slow thinking on my part...
 
Don't worry; I feel dumb all the time.
 

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