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11:00
@kalina oh, yes. all complete accidents.
hence, "accidents"
@tombull89 why on earth would you steal a touch panel?
@tombull89 ...ink blots on the screens
@spyder ... ink?
@kalina The faculties are supposed to record the student that used the laptops so the student can get charged. Course, this doesn't happen so the faculty pays for it.
11:01
@badp Ink. From pens
@tombull89 of course not, overheads
@tombull89 and that's how videos on YouTube of people smashing laptops are made
@Arperum It's not stolen, just ripped off.
@tombull89 you should sign them out to somebody who doesn't want to get charged for damage, then they'll get signed out to students
tiering ftw
@kalina teachers don't care.
11:02
@tombull89 still, why would you do that? I know touchpads are annoying as hell, but no reason to destroy it.
@tombull89 they would if they were having to pay for the damage
@kalina It's not the teacher paying for it. It's their faculty, so it's not coming out of their own pocket = they don't care.
that's what I'm saying, make them pay for the negligence in not signing them out!
btw @spyder have you tried View → Small Mode?
UNLEASH THE PAIN ON THEM
11:04
We'd have a lot of skint teachers in no time.
@kalina Don't forget to add fire!
I like your thinking.
only have to make them fail their mortgage payment once and then they'll start signing them out
@badp nope
of all the screens we've had, this was probably the best/worst one. Going on the way the surround was buckled the student punched the screen.
So the teacher likely heard this happen.
11:09
Heh
omgwtf
Detentions surely
Expelled for damage of school property
Nah, don't be daft. Got away scott free.
Ha! If we did that we'd have an empty school.
Wow
@tombull89 Just deny access to facilities to all students for a month, or until someone comes forward
11:11
I suppose the teacher's thought process was "Oh dear I forgot to do the paperwork to assign this laptop to this idiot, if I'm not careful I'm the one's who's going to foot the bill"
I would, but the IT deparment gets over-ruled like anything.
@fredley Sounds like a DDOS waiting to happen
that's what I'm recommending badp
I just added badp to my phone dictionary noooooooooooooooo
6
@badp So?
@kalina You just added nooooooooooooooooko to your dictionary too
11:12
No I didn't
okey dokey
We didn't want iPads. The school got iPads. We didn't want a lot of laptops. We got a lot of laptops.
(okey donkey?)
It pops up when I add stuff
11:13
IT in education is really quite something.
If I just hit send while the word is underlined it doesn't add it
@tombull89 Of course those IT slackers don't want work
@tombull89 you'd probably cringe at the electronic bookkeeping system my old high school uses. It's all very web 0.9
you know with the grey pages and the tables everywhere and the square-image buttons with cut-off labels inside the image to fit the square format and the table borders are thick and raised and the school tells people to ignore the SSL certificate warnings and...
@badp Well, as long as it works. I'm a fan of the "proven" IT setups, servers, desktop machines, and a small number of wireless laptops. I don't want CLOUD stuff, or tablets, or any stupidly expensive stuff that looks nice but doesn't do much.
but hey, it sends texts to people with their marks so it's all HI TECH
@tombull89 "works" may be a little of an overstatement
11:17
favourite "feature" of mine
Marks are supposed to go from 2.00 to 10.00 with quarter steps
so 2.00 2.25 2.50 2.75 etc.
In reality, the dropdown goes all the way to 9.75 10.00 10.25 10.50 10.75
Don't get me wrong, for the most part I like my job, but it just gets demoralizing with all the vandalism and management psychocrap.
wat.
my guess is as good as anybody else's, but I'm fairly certain this is what happened
for i in [2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]:
  marks.add(i & ".00")
  marks.add(i & ".25")
  marks.add(i & ".50")
  marks.add(i & ".75")
(pseudocode above)
@badp Just give enough 10.75 until they get the message.
that looks like the tip of a very deep, very nasty iceberg made of string literals, string maths, XML datastores, Java 1.6 iceberg kept afloat by krakens and eldritch horrors.
and now, your wat of the now.
As long as it doesn't contain XML-to-XML-convertion-on-every-page_load, you will survive shudders
@badp ...
11:26
@badp Tempted to flag this
@fredley I honestly have no idea why that's there.
While I'm unsure if I would... flag... that, I certainly would ask that it be incinerated. With several flames.
... what did I walk in to?
@GraceNote this
BY FIRE BE PURGED
@badp Coming back in a minute or so to flag, if it hasn't been purged
I lol'd
12:07
@GraceNote I can APPLY FIRE to SEARCH RESULTS but it doesn't solve the underlying problem
@badp I s'pose it doesn't.
12:35
@badp killed chat
badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger
mushroom mushroom
ooh a snake
snake, it's a snake
I see things I see them with my eyes
I see things, they're often in disguise like:
carrots
handbags
cheese
toilets
russians
planets
hamsters
weddings
kuala-lumpa
@tombull89 TOO SOON
poets
Stalin
KUALA LUMPUR!
Damn chat throttling
12:44
0
Q: Good and bad points of cloud storing for games

Zoltán SchmidtDiablo 3 and the newest Simcity uses servers to store even the single player data. Steam also stores games in their server, so you can download them only when you buy, but Steam works without Internet connection, unlike Diablo 3 and the new Sim City. What are the advantages of the disadvantages ...

DO YA LIKE WAFFLES?
Thank you Grumpy Lazers
LOOK IT THAT, A TERRIBLE QUESTION! Please give it your fullest attention.
But it doesn't deserve my fullest attention.
what else will you give attention to?
12:51
I mean, I had a good candidate but @GraceNote indirectly applied fire to it.
Oh wow, stars
Damnit, should have screenshotted before attracting mod abuse.
3
Somebody realized they'd already run out of stars?
Yep, stars were manually revoked.
1
Small engine repair and maintenence

Proposed Q&A site for owners, mechanics and hobbyists interested in small engine repair and maintenance.

Currently in definition.

@badp is trogdor of stars
12:58
3
Game of Thrones

Proposed Q&A site for all Game of Thrones fans and enthusiasts

Currently in definition.

@GraceNote which of those godly games have Break Damage Limit again? I googled and found some combinations but not what they do (which is oh so helpful)
@BenBrocka There's only one combination with FPS.
@GraceNote Is that the one that needs 5 5 5? I have that disc now
Yes it is.
I can use up to 2 godly games that don't have break damage limit I guess (thanks to nepnep and gege), if any are particularly useful though. I still have FF
13:06
The Atelier Series is a pretty great combination.
> Big Rig Carrying Fruit Crashes on 210 Freeway. Creates Jam.
4
Gives you level 5 HP recovery-per-turn and level 3 drop rate plus.
@OrigamiRobot ARYA GOES BLIND
@Sterno (Goes, not Is).
Jez
Jez
13:14
Anyone here know much about Intel HD graphics?
It seems like quite a respectable alternative to a graphics card, but there's surprisingly little information out there about it. Like I can't tell whether I'll be able to play Europa Universalis 3 with it
Yes - if youre trying to play games with them, you're likely to have issues.
Jez
Jez
that's the old-fashioned thinking
I couldn't find the sparkly image version
Jez
Jez
you do realize Intel HD graphics is getting to be as good as a decent graphics card?
@Sterno Yeah, I think it was lost when waffleimages was destroyed. :(
Jez
Jez
13:15
it's probably going to knock graphics cards out of the market at some point. if you have great graphics on your CPU die why bother with a card?
heck, the Steam tech survey says 10-20% of their users are using Intel HD graphics already
That surpirses me. I wonder what they're playing.
@Jez That doesn't really mean much. There are lots of old games on Steam that run fine on notebooks.
Jez
Jez
well put it this way. i spent quite a lot on a nVidia card a few years back to play TES: Oblivion. my several-years-old Intel HD graphics played it more smoothly.
@tombull89 Also, it's possible that Steam is getting faked out by notebooks with graphics card switching, like mine.
My notebook runs on Intel HD Graphics 3000 until I open a game that actually needs my graphics chipset. Steam does not need my Graphics chipset, so it doesn't see it until I actually run a game.
Jez
Jez
Intel HD Graphics is a "graphics chipset"...
13:19
@Jez discrete graphics chipset.
You pedant.
@LessPop_MoreFizz ah, good point. We have some HP machine with i3 CPUs in, and I got seriously confused when the site provided intel and ATI graphics drivers.
Jez
Jez
erm, it's not really that pedantic seeing how the integrated chipset is getting to be equally good.
@Sterno Some people haven't read the books.
Although the most complex things they run is flash games when the teacher isn't watching.
@OrigamiRobot Yes, that's the point.
13:21
@LessPop_MoreFizz Yes, I know.
@LessPop_MoreFizz I read that as peasant and smiled, then read it properly and giggled
Jez
Jez
it's quite funny what gamers think is "bad" though. if you had an Intel HD graphics chipset even 3 years ago, it would be considered pretty much top of the line
@Jez Trust me, the 3000 intel graphics are not 'equally good' by any stretch of the imagination.
Jez
Jez
now it's "crap" compared to graphics cards
@LessPop_MoreFizz what about the 4500? or the future ones Intel are planning that will be like 16 times faster?
umm... three years is plenty of time to turn great into crap in computers
Jez
Jez
13:22
@Sconibulus heh, only gamers would say that
@Jez Well if you only want to play games from 3 years ago, that intel HD graphics chipset will serve you pretty damned well.
Jez
Jez
@LessPop_MoreFizz or games that don't have insane graphics requirements.
@Jez Fact is, new releases take advantage of new advances in tech. If you care about new releases, you need to upgrade your tech at a pace commensurate therewith.
@Jez Eh, that varies. Even without insane graphics requirements, there are periodic shifts that require you to make a generational jump.
@Jez My 3 year old Nook has less memory, less battery life, and fewer features than modern Nooks
it was great, it is now crap, compared to what's available
My new laptop has a SSD that actually has space to hold things, my 3 year old one did not.
Jez
Jez
pretty soon it's gonna reach a point where games can't need a more powerful graphics chipset, though, they have everything they could possibly want
for many kinds of game i'd say that point has already passed
it's already passed for memory, hard disk space, and CPU power
13:25
Yeah, only gamers will say that about a graphics card, but there are plenty of other things that it's true for
Jez
Jez
@Sconibulus yeah SSD technology progress has been great. now i have a half-terabyte SSD
good riddance to platters
One day, the GTX Titan will be obsolete.
@Jez People have been beating that drum for over a decade. While I don't doubt that 'someday' such a point is going to be reached, I don't think anyone is really sure about where 'pretty soon' is.
@Jez o.O how much did that cost?
But honestly, it feels like you are trying to troll and nobody is biting hard enough.
13:26
I'm going to miss tearing apart old hard drives for the magnets
Jez
Jez
@tombull89 heh can't remember, probably about £300... maybe £.75 ($1.50) / gigabyte?
those magnets were the best
Jez
Jez
@Sconibulus tearing them apart was virtually impossible
they were built to withstand a nuke
but not a screwdriver...
or, rather, a torx bit
@Jez the truth is that the game industry for AAA releases has been kind of stuck behind what's possible with consoles from ~7 years ago. This christmas, the new year PS4 and the XBox are coming and I wouldn't be very surprised if the requirements for newer PC games wouldn't jump up as a result.
13:28
I have about 30 of those magnets attached to my whiteboard
Jez
Jez
@badp that surprises me. consoles are quite underpowered compared to PCs on average
@Jez The PS4 is a glorified computer.
Jez
Jez
with crappier inputs
(insofar as the CPU architecture is x86_64)
As for the XBox 360+1, we'll learn about it in a few hours today.
Jez
Jez
as long as i have my strategy games i'm happy
anyway i still predict that on-die graphics will win out in the end. i can't see people buying a separate graphics card instead of using on-board when they're as good as each other. in addition, buying a ton of RAM and using some of that will be much easier than bundling graphics memory on a card
13:31
Honestly I wonder how long it'll take to build a WINE-like layer to run PS4 games on regular computers. I mean, the instruction set is compatible.
Jez
Jez
AMD probably ought to get into the game but they're probably going bankrupt anyway
...okay, now you're just trolling.
Jez
Jez
what, about AMD?
Oh right, today's the day of the Xbox conference isn't it.
@badp the xbox will be too I would suspect
13:34
@Powerlord 3 hours and a half.
but yeah the PS4 is packed full of AMD hardware
@kalina I wonder if they're the only reason AMD hasn't gone under.
Jez
Jez
@kalina oh. that might help them financially
but i thought AMD were just being out-muscled by Intel
@Jez Generally... they are.
@Jez They still have better prices though.
13:36
Ars Technica had a long article (or series of articles) about AMD a few weeks ago.
AMD have been "out muscled" by Intel and Nvidia since the Core era started
Jez
Jez
nVidia are screwed too once on-die graphics take off :-)
but their graphics cards have uses for GPU based processing because they've got more cores on them in comparison to the Nvidia stuff
The Rise and Fall of AMD: Part 1, Part 2
on die graphics is still some way behind discreet cards
13:37
Good morning, Bridge
I challenge you to play any meaningful game using on die graphics
@fbueckert morning
Jez
Jez
@kalina yeah but it's like where SSDs were against platters 10 years ago
@Jez on die vs discreet was still a thing 10 years ago
Jez
Jez
@kalina Intel didn't have the tech to make a powerful on-die graphics chip. in fact they weren't putting it on the CPU.
@Jez they still don't have the know how to make "powerful" (in comparison to discreet) on die graphics
and don't say HDx000 because I will laugh at you
13:39
HDx000
@OrigamiRobot I laugh at you every minute of every day, situation: normal
Jez
Jez
@kalina why not? a graphics card is just a CPU on a separate card. logically it might as well be in the same place as the other CPU
@kalina Yay!
Jez
Jez
it's coming full circle - most graphics processing used to be done in the main CPU
@Jez if you think a HDx000 is fast enough to compete with anything other than last generation or the generation before thats graphics cards, you're misguided a little
Jez
Jez
13:41
@kalina that's my point though - it competes with the last generation. it's not a mile behind, it's one generation and catching up
there is at least a mile between the current generation and the last generation
Jez
Jez
it's not like it's in a different ball park in terms of performance, just lagging
look, the problem is that the CPU and the GPU are essentially different things that you can't mix and match
to my understanding, the CPU is a sequential unit with powerful instructions, the GPU has only very basic instructions but they run on a massive amount of data at once
you're talking about the difference between one "old" game running full screen with all the graphics options turned off vs three "new" games running on three different monitors with all the options on high/ultra
My candy box clone has taken its first steps
13:43
I can just about play WoW to an acceptable level on my work laptop with a core i7 and hd3000
You can put them inside the same chip but it's... kind of meaningless to do so. Unnecessary coupling if you will.
You're cloning candy box?
I had portal 2, rift and world of warcraft running on a monitor each on my home system last night with 60fps in each
Jez
Jez
@badp it's convenient
@fredley Are there robots?
13:44
and that's with a "last generation" discreet graphics card
@Jez in what use cases?
@badp There is no unnecessary coupling
@OrigamiRobot There might be
@Sconibulus I'm building a similar game
It's far too fun to be unnecessary
@fredley Do they fold paper?
13:44
@OrigamiRobot No
@badp But it's so convenient to make upgrading more difficult!
They might be made of folded paper though
Just stop feeding the very polite, well mannered, and inoffensive troll. This conversation is boring.
@TimStone That's why people love laptops right?
Jez
Jez
13:44
@badp not wanting to pay a crapload extra for a graphics card :-)
I'm not sure yet
Jez
Jez
but then im not a hardcore gamer
@Jez you pay for performance
@Jez That's a funny definition of "convenient"
this is like the "sound card" thing
Jez
Jez
people still buy sound cards?
Are you an English as a Second Language user? because in Italian "conveniente" means "cheap" which is kinda what you're looking for
I would never use on board sound, and no on board/on chip sound processing could achieve what my sound card does
@fredley You should have cotton candy people too.
@OrigamiRobot I may make some candy box references
13:46
@fredley Lies. <div id='coin-display'></div>
@Jez yes, my sound card cost more than my SSD
@fredley I'm talking about a @kalina reference
I wonder how far @AshleyNunn got in Radiant Historia.
@Jez Yes, well congratulations, you and the rest of the non-hardcore gamer market have moved over to integrated graphics chipsets, which are in fact well suited to the uses of the vast majority of computer users. Gamers are a different set of people, with different needs, and require a different tool to meet those needs.
@badp Fine. You just wait there.
13:46
@badp I especially loved my laptop when the GPU's excessive heat caused solder on the board to start to fail, randomly crippling parts. \o/
I give it another 2 seasons before HBO Game of Thrones is forced to diverge heavily from the books due to GRRM's glacial writing schedule. Then spoilers will go the other direction.
@Jez I would like you to take this statement to a professional, or even serious amateur sound engineer who uses their computer to make music and record the laughter for me, because I am in need of a new recording of people laughing for a project.
I'm currently in SH Ch 2 and AH Ch 1.
And I think that this would be a good way to source it.
@LessPop_MoreFizz he uses on board sound, the recording of the laughter would sound weird
13:47
@LessPop_MoreFizz He my want to have the person he's asking do the recording.
Morning, Bridge
@kalina Well I would hope he'd be polite enough to use some manner of hand held recording device to do the recording.
@Jez ultimately your argument is "why bother with a high precision high DPI mouse when you can use a mouse with a ball in it"
Jez
Jez
> integrated graphics core shave not only becomes substantially faster, but have also turned into an inalienable part of contemporary processors. Moreover, the company is not going to stop just yet and is working on a very ambitious plan of making integrated graphics another 10 times faster by 2015.
tell me that on die graphics is comparable to discreet using that graph
thanks
Jez
Jez
13:50
erm
@Jez Good argument
That'll show her
Jez
Jez
so there's a few discreet cards that are better than it now
and they are planning on making it 10 times faster within a few years
yeah like "the entire top end of the market"
Jez
Jez
seem to be competing quite well
considering that they're comparing it against an average card
because comparing it against anything other than an average card would make the graph meaningless
13:51
I think I broke badp
@kalina Which one on the chart is the AMD on die graphics?
@Powerlord none of them
@kalina Which is essentially where gamers are.
Jez
Jez
@kalina even average cards now are good enough to play all but the most demanding games
@Jez That means nothing if you don't take into account how much discrete graphics will improve in that time.
Jez
Jez
13:51
and in a few years' time...
14 secs ago, by OrigamiRobot
@Jez That means nothing if you don't take into account how much discrete graphics will improve in that time.
@LessPop_MoreFizz Why did you link to BoingBoing when it's an onion article?
I'm famous!
3
@kalina So, we're comparing Intel's known to be sucky on-die graphics to a discrete AMD card?
@Powerlord the argument is that intel's known to be sucky on die graphics is awesome and makes discreet pointless
13:52
Wait until we have actual per-hair physics.
Jez
Jez
sucky? heh
so... yes
@fbueckert already exists, play Tomb Raider
Jez
Jez
you guys equate "average" with "sucky". i don't
As graphics cards get more powerful, we'll get better simulations.
@kalina I thought the argument was that AMD's on die graphics is awesome and makes discrete pointless.
13:53
@Jez Dude. We're gamers. We are above average.
@Jez if average means 30 fps with all the graphics options on low, then yes, it is sucky
Average for us is higher than average for others.
@Powerlord on die in general
Jez
Jez
@kalina anyway if it's such a bad idea, why isn't Intel getting rid of it?
13:54
@Jez because it's good for the mainstream
@Jez It costs them next to nothing and low-end workstations don't care.
doesn't make it "good"
@Jez She's not saying it's a bad idea period. She's saying it's bad for gamers
I'm sure running Microsoft Excel doesn't care if you're using a HDx000
@fredley I WILL WIN THIS GAME
13:55
@OrigamiRobot ...
DON'T TRY TO STOP ME
This won't be even playable as a game for weeks...
@fredley Lies. I'm playing it right now!
This argument isn't pedantic enough yet.
@fredley How will we ever get to space if the countdown keeps going backwards?!
13:55
@TimStone You can pay for the countdown to go down again I guess
That's actually a pretty sweet idea, thanks!
Jez
Jez
@OrigamiRobot if i offered you an HD 4500 say 3 years ago, would you take that over a discrete card?
@Jez Don't try to pull me in here. I'm just translating for you.
Jez
Jez
just interested
@Jez "three years ago" it would have still been slower than a discreet card from "three years ago"
@kalina I think the word is, "discrete". /pedant
13:57
Also, no. I'd never use integrated graphics if I had the choice.
@fbueckert in the event you can't find anything wrong with my argument, pick on the spelling
Jez
Jez
@OrigamiRobot never? what about compared to a card from 5 years ago?
I have a coin!
Is there a place to insert it?
@kalina I'm just trying to help.
@Jez how is this argument even valid?
13:58
I agree with you!
@fbueckert good effort!
@Sterno Can one ever be pedantic enough? philosoraptor.jpg
HEY IF I OFFERED YOU A PC FROM 2012 IN 1986, WOULD YOU TAKE IT?
And now I have to set something on fire to alleviate the horror.
@kalina Are you a wizard?
2
13:59
@Sterno sorceress
I have a hat and everything
Jez
Jez
@kalina it's the difference between being fundamentally inferior, and just lagging behind. it it was fundamentally inferior, even very old discrete cards would be better
@kalina That's impressive. I wasn't even born yet.
@Jez but your argument isn't taking into consideration that BOTH things move fowrad
they will always lag behind
Jez
Jez
well that's not for sure
sure it is

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