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11:00
Let's review shall we? it runs better than the original, includes bug fixes, and I own a legal copy. So do tell why I should be using the N64 version again. @YiJiang'sEvilClone
@Scootaloo he didn't say "should"
happy birthday @spugsley
@kalina Whatever the case the GCN version of the game runs fine (and in some areas) better. Plus this way I don't have to pirate anything
shrug
I only explained everything because he (or she) asked:
7 mins ago, by Yi Jiang's Evil Clone
Ha! Why not play the original, then? There are also N64 emulators available
@kalina Is it strange that I'm playing an emulated rom within an emulator?
no
I also don't care that much about the topic of conversation
11:06
@kalina Just because you don't care for the topic doesn't make it disallowed.
@Scootaloo I never stated or implied this at any time
Oh, that's cool. The local (rather big) house systems manufacturer Vaillant makes a series of heating installations for private homes which you can regulate over the internet. And so can, it seems, everyone else. Cue in a rather red-headed spokesperson of the company telling people "Uh ... better plug out your great new internet-capable systems, we're working on a fix, honest ..."
Thankfully a heating installation is not a game and it still works when not connected to the internet. :)
Today's weird Eclipse behaviour: Treating all imports as Errors in the last file of every project
Even after cleaning the projects?
@MartinSojka Yes
11:13
I've yet to see such an error then. Weird indeed.
@fredley I've wanted to try and learn programming, but its things like that which make me suddenly not want to.
@Scootaloo Learn python, use Notepad++ or SublimeText. None of this happens
@fredley I did't mean that issue in specific.
@Scootaloo I mean stuff like this in general. Programming errors/bugs I can deal with. The IDE simply failing to work I cannot.
Total Eclipse of the Fun
I want to eventually (key word eventually) work in the gaming industry, but I think it is too late for me. I don't know any C++/C#.
11:17
@Scootaloo Can you draw?
@Scootaloo It's never too late. The sooner you start out the sooner you'll be good enough to pursue your dream.
Hahaha
I've been "trying" to learn programming for.... 10? years
@djsmiley2k I'm not even joking - this is my drawing I made:
@djsmiley2k obviously suffering from a lack of motivation
@Scootaloo want constructive critizism?
11:19
@djsmiley2k I read 107
You can draw straight lines, that's a start.
Also you have understanding of drawing curves too.
@djsmiley2k Grab your programming language of choice and start out on Project Euler.
@djsmiley2k That was on regular paper (from a spiral notebook) those are not my lines.
@fredley I'm currently slowly working through learning python the hard way
@Scootaloo indeed, but those legs are
This my drawing of Scootaloo:
11:20
and that tail is, and I don't think you used a compass to plot them out.... did you?
2. Your using the entire page, this is GOOD.
Draw large, draw giant.
@kalina and a fear of success.
@djsmiley2k I used a guide from DA and no that was free hand.
My small bash scripts are slowly growing in creativity.
@djsmiley2k The hard way is the best way
@djsmiley2k Creative bash scripts are best bash scripts
Remember to use as many regular expressions as possible
:D
i use bash builtin's to astonish the dev's here
@djsmiley2k Example?
11:23
hmmm
my emailing script maybe
@fredley Most of my bash scripts quickly devolve into basically perl -e '...' < input > output ... :D
@fredley what if I don't really want to learn Python? I kind of want to learn C++ however how will I apply that to making games in the future? if I ever do.
@Scootaloo once you learn one langage, others come easily appently
@Scootaloo Start by learning the concepts with languages which are a tiny bit saner (though that's not much of an accomplishment) than C++ or Python.
11:25
The only reason I want to jump into C++ is because it is the standard.
@Scootaloo C++ is a hard language to start with, but it's possible. You might find it easier to learn the basics of programming with Python before diving into C++.
Java is actually good to learn object oriented programming with. Not as good as some of the more "academic" ones, but you'll find lots of example code, which is a big plus.
C++ has a lot more 'overhead' than Python
@MartinSojka and @fredley C++ has a massive library of information for a newbie to start with too.
Should I use VS2010 or VS2012? they each have their own problems.
Meh. 2012 it is.
@Scootaloo It also gives you procedural (C-like) code along objects, macros along templates, and sprinkles that all with functors and the like. Not that Python is any better ...
If you think you can manage it, go ahead.
11:28
also archiving sites is kind of eating the time i was using to learn
:O
this is more fun :O
Don't say you weren't warned. :)
@MartinSojka I'm not sure if you are trying to discourage or encourage me to program.
@Scootaloo I'm trying to encourage you to learn to program and discourage you from learning a programming language.
/me grins
Notepad.exe is your friend
@MartinSojka Why shouldn't I use C++? it is the standard. If I go to Rockstar or wherever I want to work and apply only knowing Java I'll be laughed out of the building.
Hi @FEichinger :)
11:32
Wow, I didn't accidentally write gibberish last night.
if you go there iwth no games to show off, they'll laugh you outta the building anyway
Turns out we've been doing time input interfaces wrong all the time. Behold the glory of this solution: /cc @Ben
<- literally slept on the computer
@MartinSojka & @djsmiley2k Yep. I have no problem with making a fool of myself online, but I am not going to ruin my actual life by doing something as stupid as that.
11:34
@djsmiley2k Most artists don't use a compass, no. On the other hand, some tracing paper and a printer could work if you're merely practising basics
@Scootaloo The idea is to be able to tell "I know object-oriented and functional programming, and dabbled in declarative and aspect-oriented paradigms. Of specific languages, I'm good at C++, Java, Lisp, Python, Perl, C#, Lua and a few others and I'm sure I can pick up any other language required simply by understanding the underlying principles."
0
Q: Games database sites with ratings and user lists

guestAre there any game database sites that have user ratings and lists (like imdb for movies)? I'm looking for a site where I can rate my games and share a list of favorite ones with my friends.

The hardest part is getting proportions right, and tracing should help give a good grasp of that
@MartinSojka Ok. Again though: why are you trying to discourage me from learning C++ over something else? I know it will be harder, but I think that doing this the hard way will pay off in the long run.
In our university, student are taught algorithms before any programming language.
11:37
@M'vy Oh boy. Here we go...
@M'vy ...you still need to write algorithms somehow
use some form of notation
@Scootaloo I'm just suggesting that C++ is a bad first language to learn, not that you shouldn't learn it at all.
And we use to learn ADA first because of the strictness of language
...and some system to test and validate that notation
You can stop bragging whenever you're ready.
11:38
@Scootaloo Let me add myself to the list of people discouraging you from starting with C++. Python was a good choice.
@Scootaloo Because it isn't "the standard". Being a good programmer isn't about knowing what language you know. A good programmer should be able to pick up a new language in a week, less if you're coming in from something with similar syntax.
BTW we don't speak English in the first place, so it's probably better to use pseudo-languages for starter
@Scootaloo Hey, now. Be nice
@badp I actually think Python is a bad choice as well, but that might be just me disliking Python in general. :)
For learning purposes, Python and Java over C and derivatives every day of the week.
11:39
@MartinSojka Tastes are tastes. :) What'd you choose?
@MartinSojka YAY, I'm not alone! =D
To be honest we started with C at university and, as a result, I have a terrible understanding of real-life C
I think the image speaks for itself:
like, we were too focused on what is a function to ever discuss what is a header file and how you'd write one
@badp I wasn't being rude.
11:40
and how to build software spread across 2 or more files
and how to make it work
and how to automate that process
That's two things
or maybe even 3 :P
...but you can't say you've learned C if you don't know these
@badp For teaching OO, Eiffel or Ruby (rather Eiffel though). Functional, Lisp, Erlang or Haskell.
Java is a practical choice for OO, balancing out the need of documentation and examples.
@YiJiang'sEvilClone I still think C++ is my best bet for starting out.
That or C#.
@MartinSojka A bunch of colleagues used Eiffel in place of Java for their Software Engineering course. For a bunch of reason, it wasn't a great experience - although I admit the challenges of having to work with multiple teams across multiple countries inside the same build unit and name space with a 7 stage compilation process aren't exactly what you'd put in Programming 101
11:42
^^
@M'vy also bragging gets you nowhere.
probably not.
@Scootaloo perhaps you aren't being rude but you aren't being nice to M'vy either
@Scootaloo I ... can't seem to find any bragging here.
Anyway, I've nothing to prove. Just trying to help if I can.
Feel free to disregard
11:44
The trouble with C++, C#, Python, Perl and others is that they are "multi-paradigm", but you won't know what that even means, much less how to use those capabilities, unless you learned to see the pure variants of them.
@FEichinger Not very shocking you'd say that considering there are still leftover issues from when we first met.
@M'vy don't back down! Get feisty, launch him into the sun!
PURGE HIM WITH FIRE
Also, for a mix of practicability and usefulness of learning, variants of ECMAScript are also rather good to get a grasp on functional (and event-driven) programming.
@MartinSojka well, at least for Python, you could just pretend the other paradigms don't exist
They're kind of hard to trigger accidentally
@kalina could be fun. But I've no time, got to go teach some network classes
11:45
@Scootaloo I have looked at the transcript. I can't find anything that would classify as bragging, so what the hell are you talking about?
see u guys.
@M'vy Bragging and trying to cut me down is doing nothing to help me.
(I'm thinking first-class functions, comprehensions, etc.)
@M'vy I will do it for you then!
It is probably going to be hard to hide classes though, yeah.
11:46
@Scootaloo Quiet oh dearest Scootaloo, or feel the full extent of my wrath!
@Scootaloo I think I've told you twice already to stop doing that.
@Scootaloo I'm squinting really hard here to find anything like what you're accusing of here
@badp I've just added for people (not including you) to my ignore list. I need to cool down.
tries hard not to make a joking remark to French stereotypes, which is almost obligatory for an Italian
For a nice easy example of functional fun with ECMAScript, see ...
10 hours ago, by Yi Jiang's Evil Clone
$('#chat').on('click', '.monologue', function(evt){
    var img = $('<img>', {
        src: 'http://th01.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2011/312/8/7/twilight_sparkle_by_thenaro-d4fks5i.png',
        css: {
            height: 140,
            position: 'absolute',
            marginTop: -106,
            left: evt.clientX - $(this).offset().left - 63,
            zIndex: 10000
        }
    });

    img.on('click', function(){ $(this).remove() });

    $(this).prepend(img);
});
11:49
@Scootaloo oh how rude!
@MartinSojka well, wow, to understand that you need a working knowledge of Javascript, DOM, jQuery, MLP
@badp Make that 5 (again not including you). I'm having a very hard time keeping my cool. What should I do?
@badp it's MLP more than anything else
@Scootaloo Go afk until such time that you're able to keep it
@MartinSojka That's not functional programming
BUT SINCE YOU PUT US ALL ON IGNORE
11:50
It's just a bunch of closures
Hmm, is it only mods that can see other user's ignore lists, or can everyone do that?
@MadScientist I doubt normal users can
@MadScientist mod only
@MadScientist If you'd like to know who I put on the list I can tell you, but I don't see why you'd want to know.
@badp I could really use some good advice from someone who I'm not furious with :).
@Scootaloo I can see it, I was just wondering if everyone can
11:51
@kalina This. He's getting ticked off by stuff he feels attacked by ... None of which I can really see as attacking him at all.
def findzero(fun, a, b):
  if fun(a)*fun(b)>0: raise ArgumentException
  if a<b: a, b = b, a
  if fun(a) == 0: return a
  if fun(b) == 0: return b
  mid = a+b/2
  if fun(a)*fun(mid)<0: return findzero(fun, a, mid)
  if fun(b)*fun(mid)<0: return findzero(fun, mid, b)
@MartinSojka this is more like where I'd start :P
@YiJiang'sEvilClone To understand why it functions you need to know functional programming (the "on" attributes are functions which take, among other things, functions as arguments, which in this case are dynamically created at runtime in another such function and encapsulate the local variables at the point of time even when ran at some other time -> see also "closure").
@Scootaloo Go play TF2
...MvM
@FEichinger I'm the one that is meant to be on edge today
...on an easy server
11:52
I'm alarmed that I am reasonably chilled
@kalina You're not on ignore nor is @FEichinger
@Scootaloo This is an outrage!
@MadScientist Typically if it's in red type it's mod only. That said I only know how to see if one is being ignored, rather than knowing who ignores who
@badp I'd start with something like this ...
@badp can poeple on my ignore list see my messages?
11:54
@Scootaloo That is something I don't even care about. I have yet to understand just what ticks you off so much. You are the one getting extremely defensive here.
@Scootaloo of course.
@Scootaloo Yes.
(defun quicksort (lis) (if (null lis) nil

  (let* ((x (car lis)) (r (cdr lis)) (fn (lambda (a) (< a x))))

    (append (quicksort (remove-if-not fn r)) (list x)

      (quicksort (remove-if fn r))))))
@Scootaloo you are ignoring them, not the other way around
... but as I wrote, ECMAScript variants are easier to get tons of examples and help for. :)
11:55
@MartinSojka Ah, good ole LISP/Scheme.
@badp I'd better not say something I'd regret then ;).
@Scootaloo Reminder: chat transcripts are indexed by search engines
They don't rank very high, but they're there.
@MartinSojka ((((I love LISP!))))
38 secs ago, by Scootaloo
@badp I'd better not say something I'd regret then ;).
@YiJiang'sEvilClone That's ((((love (I) (LISP)))))
11:57
Anyway, ECMAScript is a little annoying for functional programming too, mainly because having to use function for every function declaration makes the code look rather ugly
@MartinSojka That's... a good way to bust students studying from slides. Dunno if that's your objective though
Of course you can choose something that compiles down to JS with the necessary syntatic sugar, but in that case you might as well choose something else to start with
@FEichinger I have problems just like anyone else would.
@M'vy sorry for snapping on you.
12 mins ago, by Yi Jiang's Evil Clone
user image
You're reading far too much into his messages
I think "let's implement the bisection methods you all know about to find the zero of a function, any function!" would be simpler, more linear and more engaging. Also, being almost tail-recursive, you could use it to kind of gently introduce to recursive programming
12:00
@YiJiang'sEvilClone Maybe you didn't see it.
52 secs ago, by Scootaloo
@M'vy sorry for snapping on you.
...it is, at any rate, how I surreptitiously found out that you can nest functions inside functions or even pass them as params
@badp In Python?
@YiJiang'sEvilClone Yeah
@M'vy my actions were unwarranted for me to say what I did [towards you].
@Scootaloo are you a naturally paranoid person?
12:01
I just tried it for the hell of it and it worked, much to my surprise (I was still following the Programming 102 course which was still all about C)
That was a really fun course.
@kalina please don't start this again.
@Scootaloo perfectly innocent question
Especially the laboratory part where some people cheated their way through the first exercises with netcat and some people cheated their way through the later exercises (for the bonus points) with Python
@kalina The question itself is innocent, but the motive isn't. To answer it: no I'm not paranoid, but I have plenty a learning disability's that does effect my social skills negatively.
12:03
@badp Was the assignment something that's Project Euler style where you just have to enter the answer?
@OrigamiRobot I always figured you were a snorer
@YiJiang'sEvilClone It was all about networking with the socket API
I don't think I actually do, but I cannot confirm this.
@Scootaloo everything I do is always completely innocent, I am an angel afterall...
Exercises were all of the "Write the server to this client/Write the client to this server" type
12:04
@badp Networking, sockets in C? Ha, good luck :P
@kalina A little too much. Just a little.
@kalina *snots*
So you'd write the client and the server would connect to you and see if your client behaves correctly
@FEichinger completely innocent and angelic.
@YiJiang'sEvilClone gross
12:04
Of course, there's no difference if you connect to somebody with C or Python or Netcat
@YiJiang'sEvilClone eww.
@kalina that is the biggest load of ... I've ever read.
@YiJiang'sEvilClone It's ... rather straightforward, until someone does a cat /dev/random | nc yourmachine yourport
@Scootaloo The biggest load of ellipsis you've ever read?
0
Q: Candy Crush Saga Game Strategy

GeoStrikeMy Observation and understanding of the game I have been playing this game since a week-ten days. I some how feel the candies are not randomly generated, I also understand there are multiple variations of each level so that if played multiple times we get different starting of that level (that'...

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Q: Why can't I siege Reindi Castle?

AndrewNordFaceI'm Khergit Rebels. They're Rhodoks. My faction relation is -100, and my relationship with the lord inside is -17. We've been at war for nearly a year. But when I click on the castle, it only gives me two options: hail the guard and talk to the asshole inside... or leave. Why? One of my fel...

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Q: How to test mechanics

Anton RothHow can I test certain mechanics (for example whether Manta Style gets you out of Treant Protector's ultimate). Currently what I do is host a game, get a friend to play the other side, set to appropriate levels via cheats, and then test. This though always requires 2 players involved. How do I ...

0
Q: Is it possible to download apps from another country?

CroninI live in Australia, and I was wondering if there was anyway to access applications from the U.S such as Hulu?

12:05
@badp can you please ban me for 10 minutes?
4
@Lazers spammer
@Scootaloo No. I literally can't.
@kalina Doesn't look like it
@badp this is a lie, you could ban him but you don't want to
@Scootaloo Not 10, but 30 is possible
12:06
@kalina Don't talk to him that way...
...not for 10 minutes
@badp ah you were focused on the 10 minute part, well, I'm guessing multiples of 30 right?
Do it for 30 minutes then. Please.
2
How to ban yourself for X minutes: Take a nap.
6
@Scootaloo Also can't. I need a bad enough message.
Just. Go. Play. Videogames.
12:06
It is clearly the best use of time.
@badp Don't encourage him
@badp Don't encourage it.
@badp Don't encourage her.
@badp Don't encourage them
NEWSFLASH: MODERATOR ENCOURAGING BAD BEHAVIOUR IN THE BRIDGE
6
12:07
if he does follow through with the encouragment it'll be for more than thir---
@Scootaloo yes, see you tomorrow
@badp Well now you've done it
> This user has been temporarily suspended by a moderator and cannot chat for 23 hours 59 minutes.
how rude...
Why are we banning ourselves?
If you're happy and you know it ban yourself!
10
12:09
I don't know why anyone would deny being paranoid unless they had something to hide.
If you're happy and you know it and you really want to show it if you're happy and you know it ban yourself!
@kalina Syntax error
what was that about?
@MartinSojka I know right, I thought it was a valid question, would explain the over focusing on random points
@badp Hahaha
12:10
@badp whatever
@Sconibulus Scoots didn't manage to keep his cold because ERRYONE WAS BEIN MEAN! So rather than, you know, leaving, he asked for a ban. And called kalina names to "justify" one.
@fredley yeah yeah I got it the first time!
@kalina That still cracks me up way more than is reasonable
He obviously didn't see the +meab tag
@FEichinger apparently I'm the easiest and most accessible person to call names
12:11
Well that was fucking stupid. Now I'm going to BAN myself from the Bridge by watching the new Doctor Who episode and ignoring chat
@fredley You are just too easily pleased
@kalina well, you are a grump
@kalina I know :(
@Sconibulus I am not a grump!
12:12
by the way, @kalina, next time you get 24 hours too.
@FEichinger Ahh, I saw the name-calling and ban asking but couldn't find what initiated it.
@badp is that on purpose, or just how far my bans have escalated
Heh, Seiki put out the first "4K" (7680x4320 px) TV for 1k EUR. Too bad it's just 4K@30Hz ...
@kalina Go with "Both."
@FEichinger well no, because one of those is mod abuse and the other is... well, my fault
12:13
@YiJiang'sEvilClone very much a filler ep.
@badp how long is it until that de-escalates from a day ban?
0
Q: Logitech G25 Racing Wheel

lupopahow can i set up a Logitech G25 Racingwheel in Ubuntu 12.04? it there a driver or other tool avaiable? I'll using it in Speed Dreams.

12:29
Bored...... :(
@OrigamiRobot I see ... possibilities.
@MartinSojka You don't wanna know what page google image pulled that from...
"virgin brazilian hair" - wut?
@OrigamiRobot lol
I'm sorry, but I find that far too hilarious.
12:39
I miss @gnomeslice.
@Sterno normally I would star but I don't have the energy to reach for my mouse
If you're going to get yourself banned from Chat, be clueless about why.
0
Q: What to sell in the Trading Post?

JoetjahI've been clearing maps and getting a lot of drops, some equipment stronger than the one I already have, thus switching my equipment to get better. Sometimes, I get drops which I can 'sell as junk' at the merchant or put in my Bank as materials. There are some items left. I always sell them at t...

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Q: Can books give stat points or unlock skill points?

user28015In Divinity 2 : Ego Draconis, I have found 1 book so far that is explicitly named "Stat Book" and gave me one stat point to spend after reading. But since you can also get Books as optional Quest rewards I ask myself what purpose they have. Are they just for lore fanatics or can you gain additi...

So sick of every damn Bioshock question being a wall of spoiler markup
need moar spoilers
12:44
I always hit "edit" when on my iPad so I can read the question/answer. Eventually I'm bound to accidentally make some horrid edit in the process.
I need a new phone
I think I want a HTC One
@kalina The HTC One 2013 is weird.
describe 'weird'
@kalina you don't.
If it's anything like the One X.
well it's apparently the fastest phone out at the moment
12:49
so you can run your battery down faster?
@kalina The new buzzword features are meh, the on/off-switch has an IR node in it, and you can't change the battery. And, if I remember correctly, changing the memory card isn't possible either.
battery is never really an issue for me, I'm not away from anywhere with power for more than 10-16 hours at a time, with the upper portion of that range being a time that I wouldn't be using my phone anyway
<-- got to see it a couple of days after reveal
@kalina Well, if the battery dies, you gotta get a new phone, essentially.
That's bad.
@FEichinger this is the case with pretty much every other phone
lets give this conversation some context; I currently have an iPhone
12:52
No, it's been the case with iDevices and a couple of Samsung phones. Pretty much everyone else got that right.
I don't see the issue, if the battery dies I'll just get the phone replaced
@kalina I don't think those batteries can last 10-16h on 4G
@djsmiley2k It is pretty meh, yeah
@YiJiang'sEvilClone I don't think the UK has a 4G network to shout about
Hahaha
T-Mobile phoned me after I got my S3, trying to sell me 4G
Started going on about fast downloads etc and how I'd be fully utilizing my phone.
I asked them to check how much data I'd used... (knowing at the time it was 40Mb for about 3 weeks).
"Oh........... well you can get your emails faster!"
12:54
apparently the build quality is excellent, the performance is excellent
it "gets slightly warm" during operation
Is it bigger than your head?
@YiJiang'sEvilClone how fast do you think 3G should be?
I regularly get.... 50Kbs.... and slower.
@YiJiang'sEvilClone it isn't as big as the One X
@djsmiley2k I don't know. I'm not on a 3G plan. I just smooch free wifi everywhere I go
That is top end performance.
@YiJiang'sEvilClone well trust us uklites when we say the infra here sucks.
12:56
@FEichinger the IR is mentioned as a plus point in the reviews I've read
IR.... infrared?
We are still using infrared?!
@djsmiley2k Hey, don't knock TV remotes!
@YiJiang'sEvilClone is your TV often in direct sunlight?
@djsmiley2k native control over TVs and such from the phone
@kalina ah ok that makes more sense.
I was thinking the other way around.
12:58
I don't actually use a TV on a day to day basis though
opens up opportunities to mess with unsuspecting people though and I'm always up for that
@kalina The strong point of their presentation was "People switch the screen on and off all the time!" That switch is one of the first mechanical thing to break, it is easily smeared with sweat etc. ... I don't like combining the IR node with the switch, is all.
@FEichinger do you normally drip with sweat on a day to day basis?

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