The Bridge

Martin Sojka

15:00

I wonder if Thaumcraft still has those silly "infected lands" spreading around.

Ben Brocka

Minecraft: Step 1: Mine EVERYTHING Step 2: Store everything in boxes Step 3: Load new chunks

2

fredley

@BenBrocka Step 4: GOTO 1

Ben Brocka

When the entire map is only bedrock, you win

Michel

We should create a "Gamer girl's day" ...

SaintWacko

@MartinSojka I haven't noticed any of them

Zero Stack

15:01

Has anyone here bought the new simcity? Curious if they fixed most of the issues during the beta testing...

fredley

@BenBrocka Sadly I'm at work, but I've actually done this to a very large area of the world

SaintWacko

@Michel Why separate them out from other gamers?

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@ZeroStack Ask @kalina

kalina

ask me what?

oh

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

Though I'm not sure if launch day server issues are resolved yet

Michel

15:01

@SaintWacko Same reason that we have a women's day and not a men's day

kalina

what issues did you experience in beta

Michel

@SaintWacko also, we motivate more women in gaming. (I guess)

Zero Stack

@Kalina I didn't try the beta as I presumed there would be server issues... Is this game a DRM ? or is it online as well?

Martin Sojka

@SaintWacko Good. It pretty much sucked royally in the previous version: "That's a nice little place for a base you found there. Mind if I turn everything into purple goo spawning aggressive mobs all the time and spreading like crazy right there?"

kalina

That doesn't sound like a beta issue

Martin Sojka

15:03

@Michel There is a Men's Day; 19th November.

kalina

The game has an online component, you must be online to play the game, if you lose your connection you will get kicked from the server after a few minutes

Zero Stack

I ask if they fixed most the issues in the beta as a few of my friends were complaining about it. My response: "That's why they call it a beta."

SaintWacko

@MartinSojka Yeah, and it's incredibly difficult to stop

kalina

The game plays fine, but the authentication with the server is causing some issues getting to the point where you're "playing"

SaintWacko

@kalina In other words, they fixed some issues, but added even more

kalina

15:03

I didn't say those words

Michel

@MartinSojka O.o That's new o.O

SaintWacko

@kalina Nope, I did

kalina

@SaintWacko Hardly added, it kicked you in beta if you lost connection to the server as well

SaintWacko

Using my amazing translation abilities

@kalina Oh, well then they fixed some issues, but left the worst ones

kalina

I can't be bothered having an EA bashing conversation

If you don't like the fact you've got to be online to play it, don't play it

and if you're not going to play it, don't have an opinion on it either

Zero Stack

15:05

@SaintWacko hahahha

Michel

@MartinSojka there is a gamer's day too? (can't find this one) tehre is a games day

kalina

@ZeroStack once EA sort out their lack of capacity issues, and re-enable cheetah speed, the game will be fine

fbueckert

@kalina I'm not allowed to have an opinion of something I haven't played?

kalina

@fbueckert how can you have a valid and unbiased opinion on something you've got no experience with?

fbueckert

@kalina What if my opinion is based on public information?

Zero Stack

15:06

@kalina ....cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/32685640.jpg

fbueckert

Such as, "Online DRM is absolutely stupid."

OrigamiRobot

@fbueckert I will note the irony here and nothing more.

Zero Stack

is upload broke?

kalina

@fbueckert that's not your opinion. That is your extrapolated opinion based off other people's biased opinions

@fbueckert "Diablo III", stop being a hypocrite

fbueckert

@kalina Depends on the information provided.

@kalina That doesn't invalidate my opinion.

kalina

15:07

@fbueckert no, it doesn't. Your personal opinion is based off information that others have provided that you cannot validate because you've got no experience with the subject at hand

fbueckert

I can play a game and still think it's Always online DRM is stupid.

It's not mutually exclusive.

@kalina So you're saying marketing isn't a thing?

Zero Stack

@fbueckert and @kalina My 2 cents is that: the concept of a DRM is good, but in practice it has been done so poorly.

kalina

Therefore, any opinion you have on SimCity will be based off the opinion of a thousand whiny little crybabies who're currently throwing their toys out of their pram because they can't log in

Powerlord

@ZeroStack That's slander against Blizzard, EA, and Ubisoft!

fbueckert

@Powerlord And Blizzard, let's not forget them!

kalina

15:08

and if you want to have that opinion, fine, but don't dribble it in public because its based on something you've not experienced

badp

It is stupid for a game to release two or three days before the official release day

tiddy

@kalina What is the scope of your argument

Games?

kalina

@tiddy just in general tbh, it applies to everything

fbueckert

@kalina You're arguing that marketing in general shouldn't be used to form an opinion.

badp

I expect that companies that expect to use such strategies in the future actually launch their game five days before the "official launch day"

Powerlord

15:10

@kalina Yes, because I should clearly shell out $60 so I can experience the same issues people are already having. I'm pretty sure that's called "lack of planning"

3

fbueckert

When that's it's exact purpose.

kalina

@fbueckert Marketing is as biased as it comes

Zero Stack

@Powerlord hahahaha Oh i know. My question is that is the only purpose for a DRM to prevent people from distributing (torrenting, etc) that specific game illegally? If so, they shouldn't be focusing on DRMs but a stronger key encryption, no?

Powerlord

or "being an idiot"

Retrosaur

Morning Bridge.

tiddy

15:10

@kalina Everything except objectively factual objects and theories

badp

@ZeroStack wat

Ben Brocka

This is a horribly inflammatory time to post this, and it isn't my intent, I just found this funny

18

fbueckert

@kalina You're tilting at windmills, here.

Retrosaur

@BenBrocka I officially love you.

Powerlord

@ZeroStack There are other reasons for DRM, but anti-piracy is a big one.

fbueckert

15:11

The entire point of marketing is to make people form an opinion.

Zero Stack

@BenBrocka = my hero for that post.

fbueckert

Railing against that is saying the entire concept should never have happened.

Retrosaur

@Powerlord People still torrent stuff don't they?

OrigamiRobot

@Retrosaur Get a room, you two.

badp

@kalina what's the situation actually like?

kalina

15:12

and if people choose to form an opinion off marketing, or third party reviews, or something your mum said, then go for it, but as far as I'm concerned they're not trustworthy or valid opinions drawing on reliable sources and personal experience

Powerlord

@Retrosaur Yes, because people are constantly cracking DRM.

badp

Can people log in? Can they play? Do the save files stick?

kalina

@badp it's pretty bad tbh

the saves stick

that bit works

OrigamiRobot

@Powerlord And it mainly serves to strengthen piracy.

kalina

I played on Oceania and Europe East lastnight

Powerlord

15:12

@badp According to about 70,000 or so different sources: No, no, and no.

badp

Oh, okay, I saw people complaining about corrupted save files

kalina

the game plays fine once you've actually got into the game

Zero Stack

@Powerlord don't the companies pushing out a DRMs hurt from the market of users that dont have internet?

kalina

but the act of 'getting into the game' is painful

badp

@kalina So it's all the chokepoint of getting past the launcher/login screen, like it was for Diablo 3

Zero Stack

15:13

@badp sorry was my wording poorly? lol multitasking here

kalina

@badp no, it's more than that

the launcher won't launch the game until it has a connection

but that connection isn't guarenteed

badp

Okay, and it only checks once every 30 minutes

kalina

so you can wait upto 20 minutes for the launcher to launch the game, and the immediately lose the connection

badp

or so

kalina

actually the time it waits seems to vary

badp

15:14

...so the counter is actually an estimated queue length thing

kalina

yes

Retrosaur

You realize, most expert hackers can crack through DRms

badp

oooooh.

Retrosaur

within 2 hours of it being released.

kalina

SimCity's "always on DRM" isn't strictly a DRM

Retrosaur

15:14

When I think EA first released Assassins Creed 2 with the brand new DRM back then

badp

@Retrosaur Honestly the client-server system really can't be cracked

kalina

there is a lot of background processing going on

badp

You can build compatible servers

Retrosaur

hackers cracked it and got rid of it within 2 hours

it was all over thepiratebay.org

badp

but you can't crack code you don't have to begin with

fbueckert

15:15

@badp You CAN, however, reverse engineer it.

Retrosaur

@BenBrocka You pulled that off of 4chan

tiddy

Funny enough, I believe AC 1 took weeks to crack properly

Retrosaur

boards.4chan.org/v/res/179829781#p179842169

badp

@fbueckert ...and to do that you need to see how the game actually does work once it does work.

murgatroid99

@Retrosaur It was on reddit yesterday

fbueckert

15:15

@badp Yeah.

badp

Now wrap the game networking session into SSH and somesuch and things get pretty complicated.

Retrosaur

Everything orginates on 4chan. Everyone knows this.

murgatroid99

@Retrosaur Many things. But not everything

tiddy

Nothing useful anyway

fbueckert

@Retrosaur It better not. I stay out of there.

murgatroid99

15:17

@Retrosaur I browse reddit and 4chan, and I often see OC from reddit reposted on 4chan

Zero Stack

@Kalina sorry I didn't mean to spark this big of a debate, just was curious if EA figured out the major bugs & drm issue I have been hearing so much about as I used to be a big sim city fan.

badp

>put words in youre mouth
>implying your wrong
i'm so smart

Ben Brocka

@Retrosaur I certainly didn't make it :P someone else posted it in another chat

kalina

@ZeroStack you didn't spark the debate, the debate has been brewing for weeks

Ben Brocka

I tried to find a source but apparently EA solitare is actually a thing so I couldn't find it

kalina

15:17

@ZeroStack the game runs, it's just a bit hard to get into the game at the moment

Zero Stack

@kalina I meant in this thread mainly

kalina

It will likely be OK within the month

Retrosaur

@murgatroid99 Interesting, I find it's the other way around.

kalina

they've said they're bringing more servers online

OrigamiRobot

@murgatroid99 Everything is a repost of a repost.

Retrosaur

15:18

Ben Brocka

@fbueckert This is where 4chan comes up and is all "@fbueckert I AM YOUR FATHER"

badp

@Retrosaur That's way more than 140 chars

Retrosaur

@badp lol

fbueckert

@BenBrocka I sincerely hope not.

I rather enjoy my brain cells; I'd hate to lose them due to the extreme stupidity that goes on there.

kalina

@ZeroStack once I was in the game, I played it for hours without issue, then I tried to change region and killed it all

I could have probably stayed in that game indefinitely

FAE

15:20

@fbueckert You're on the internet and you want to avoid extreme stupidity. These things seem kinda mutually exclusive.

OrigamiRobot

@fbueckert Then this probably isn't the best place for you either.

We're all mad here.

murgatroid99

@Retrosaur I see it go both ways

badp

@OrigamiRobot ~~BANANA~~ [duplicate] BANANA

fbueckert

@FAE I can tolerate it to a degree. But I stay away from 4chan and reddit for the most part.

tiddy

reddit has a lot of brilliant people posting every day on science, math, history

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

15:21

@badp THAT MAKES TWO BANANAS

FAE

@fbueckert Like anywhere, there can be decent individuals and even decent conversation in both those places, it's just weeding it all out from the rest of the drek that's the hard part.

SaintWacko

Really awesome looking roguelike Kickstarter

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@tiddy But you have to actually look for the subreddits they post to. Which is fine by me, personally.

Retrosaur

@fbueckert That is the most ridiculously stereotypical comment I've heard about 4chan.

badp

@YiJiang'sEvilClone THAT IS ALOT OF BANANA

I HAVE IDEA

tiddy

15:22

Yeah askscience, askhistory, math, etc

Zero Stack

@Retrosaur hahah yes over 140 chars, but what is that referencing?

badp

CLOSE BANANA AS DUPE OF BANANA

tiddy

whatever. Just go find it

SaintWacko

@fbueckert It's not all bad

Retrosaur

@ZeroStack The fact that everyone who bought Simcity is getting shafted

fbueckert

15:23

@FAE Granted. I'm not willing to put in the effort to weed it out. So I stay away entirely.

Retrosaur

tiddy

they have a subreddit for lazy people too

badp

/r/mildlyinteresting?

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

SaintWacko

@Retrosaur Ahahahahahahaha

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

15:24

Here's my list of subreddits. I think it gives a relatively good mix of content.

FAE

@fbueckert Yeah, that's fair. It's harder to do in some places than in others and if it takes more than a certain amount of energy for what you get out of it, than it's a turnoff to do in the first place.

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@badp r/mildlyinteresting got too interesting for me :(

StrixVaria

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

It basically turned into r/pics, but with less effort

badp

In the meantime, Polygon dropped the SimCity score from 9.5 to 8.0 to 4.0

Powerlord

15:25

@Retrosaur Sales cheapen things, yes. That's the entire point. ;)

Retrosaur

And brings attention to people who may not have been willing to buy the game

who are now willing to.

StrixVaria

@badp Bandwagon review?

Zero Stack

I feel like these launch day server issues happens a lot across multiple devs.... is it just me with that feel?

badp

@StrixVaria polygon.com/game/simcity-2013/2630

StrixVaria

"People hate it, so we'll get more views if we keep lowering the score!"

Retrosaur

15:26

@badp pcgamesn.com/tf2/…

What do you think?

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@ZeroStack The only game with comparable problems at launch is Diablo 3

Ben Brocka

@badp Can;t believe they didn't get shit for the initial 9.5

Retrosaur

Labelling TF2 as not a real F2P

fbueckert

@ZeroStack It's due to not planning for maximum players, but what the average concurrent players will be.

Zero Stack

@YiJiang'sEvilClone Yeah that wasn't fun. lol good point.

OrigamiRobot

15:27

@StrixVaria You got any Boros Reckoner you want to trade me yet?

Retrosaur

@BenBrocka That's because it was before the game was released, so no one could predic that the servers would be shit

StrixVaria

@OrigamiRobot Haven't bought cards in a while.

badp

@Retrosaur He's probably talking about the original item sets, like the saharan spy

I just used it to spycap the final stretch of upward through silent dead ringer decloaks

Ben Brocka

@Retrosaur I'm pretty sure everyone predicted it'd be a mess at launch. 3 days later still a mess is more than I expected though

badp

That said, while the full set was rather expensive to unlock... I didn't spend an eurocent for it.

fbueckert

15:28

If the average number of players is 1000, it doesn't make sense to provide enough servers to handle 2000. Or, it does make sense from a consumer standpoint, but from a capitalist view, it doesn't.

badp

Now, consider DOTA 2.

In DOTA 2 you get a drop on every level up

Zero Stack

@fbueckert +1

badp

That's a far cry from 11 hours of items per week

Now I don't know what kind of drops does DOTA 2 get

If they're all cosmetic items, that's more drops than TF2 gives you

fbueckert

@ZeroStack Hence why servers are shit on launch days.

badp

Otherwise I have no idea

Ben Brocka

15:30

@fbueckert Not quite. It's very common in good IT to provide an excessive amount of support, because if you don't scale up properly, you lose money in the long run

fbueckert

@BenBrocka You're assuming publishers have good IT.

Ben Brocka

There's nothing "capitalist" about making decisions that will negatively impact revenue short or long term

badp

Publishers assumed that when going client-server

They took the gamble, like Blizzard did

Customers forgave Blizzard for the first week trouble, kinda

EA is banking on more of the same.

fbueckert

@BenBrocka Scalability is key, yes. You can code for scalability, and not provide enough hardware to handle the launch day loads, though.

Ben Brocka

@fbueckert Considering they're EA they really should. They do have good programmers and studios. They just did'nt buy enough servers

Stack Exchange

15:31

Stack Exchange Gaming Blog: Crysis 3 – Of Benchmarks and Borrowing

agent86 on March 08, 2013

I recently built a new PC to replace the aging laptop I was using for my day-to-day PC gaming needs. Included with my new video card was a coupon for a free copy of Crysis 3 and a free copy of Bioshock: Infinite. While I’m interested in the new Bioshock game, I can’t say I really had much interest in Crysis as a series before now. Getting it free was awfully motivating, though, so I thought I’d check it out.

Stop me if you’ve heard this one:

He’s Master Chief! This is pretty much the plot to the first Halo game. …

badp

@fbueckert They did make it so some features could be turned on and off

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

There are comments in the HN thread that predict this and the Blizzard D3 launch to completely sink this model as a business proposition

Ben Brocka

@badp did they, or did they just do that last second? It took them a couple days to do it after all

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

ie. other companies would be so horrified at how badly things turned out that they'd not make the same mistake

fbueckert

@badp Which is a good idea, but most people view it as proof it shouldn't be online at all.

badp

15:32

@fbueckert Of course it shouldn't be online only in the first place.

Ben Brocka

@YiJiang'sEvilClone Very few companies would even think to do this in the first place

fbueckert

@badp This wouldn't even be an issue without that requirement.

badp

@YiJiang'sEvilClone Why wasn't the Diablo 3 launch deterrent enough, then?

fbueckert

Any slowdown and whatnot could be attributed to, "Get a better computer"

Retrosaur

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

15:33

@badp I think SimCity was built way before then

Powerlord

@badp Exactly, because you can trade or craft for them.

badp

@YiJiang'sEvilClone ...it's like one year ago now?

Powerlord

Heck, I think the price of most of the set hats has been slowly going down.

badp

@Powerlord I had to spend ~3 refined or so for the hat

Retrosaur

badp

15:34

...which is not exactly super expensive, after all.

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@badp The game is built from the ground up with this model in mind. I think the decision was made waaay back

badp

The YER is kind of a rare drop though.

Retrosaur

@badp You can buy it off of anyone for a scrap

badp

...nevermind it's also an achievement item right?

Retrosaur

But if you're f2p, it's easily craftable

Zero Stack

15:34

@Retrosaur Looks awesome, but I cant tell you how many C&C disks i have laying around.

Powerlord

@badp It is? I have 3 of them right now

Zero Stack

well over 15

badp

@Powerlord I'm checking my trade history

Retrosaur

I almost got rid of my entier inventory

Powerlord

@badp Nope, there are no achievement knife drops.

Retrosaur

15:35

scrap banking

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

Ahahaha, r/games gets tired of SimCity content filling up the subreddit.

badp

@Retrosaur I'm aware scrap.tf is a thing that exists

@YiJiang'sEvilClone -1, text post itself fills the subreddit with even more non-content

Every subreddit should have its meta, dammit. Don't mix meta and main content

Don't post crap to complain about shit

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@badp Yeah, meta posts are almost always bad (unless its something really important like mod announcements)

badp

@Retrosaur This is another moment when I'd like to be voting like a normal user

fbueckert

@Retrosaur This is a little inappropriate.

I'd recommend removing it.

Zero Stack

15:39

awee I missed it. That's what I get for looking away for a few mins

:P

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

There is no penalty for dying. Wrench them to death! — OrigamiRobot Mar 12 '12 at 15:10

@OrigamiRobot Is this true? Do the damage remain when you respawn?

badp

@Powerlord eh, I got it off TF2WH for... credits. I'm afraid the details have gone lost in the mists of time

Oh, nope. 12,735c

Today it's sold for 12,810c

Oh look, TF2WH removed refined metal from the item list entirely

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

Mmmmhmm, Vessel

Lazers

1

Q: What happens to resources stored in a building that I demolish?

When demolishing a building, what happens to the resources (input/output storage) inside? Are they lost? If not, are they transported to the docks? Further, do they somehow count towards export tasks?

tropico-4

0

Q: What are the resources that can be bought and sold on the global market, and how are the resources produced/consumed?

What are the resources that can be bought and sold on the global market, and how are the resources produced/consumed? In other words, for each resource, how does it enter the "sim world", and what are the uses for the resource?

simcity

1

Q: How can I place the same building repeatedly?

I would like to place the same building multiple times. For apartments, this is enabled by default, but for other buildings, I have to go through the build menu again.

tropico-4

0

Q: How to get the "Gene-ius" achievement in Pixel People?

There is an achievement (that can be seen from the police station achievements wall on page 3) that says "Get a quick surprise at the gene pool". I've been playing for weeks and still have yet to encounter this. Any ideas on what triggers this? I'm also already at 118/150 for types of jobs fou...

pixel-people

0

Q: windhelm hjerim chest glitch

a while back i bought the hjerim house in windhelm for the quest about the butcher guy. after i finished the quest i bought the armoury decorartion from jarleif and filled the racks and manikens with my stuff. the left over armour i put in one of the chests in the rooms upstairs(i cant remember w...

skyrim xbox-360

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

Hmmm, I might have an extra Vessel key from the Humble bundle

badp

15:46

oh wow, this is a first for me

OrigamiRobot

@YiJiang'sEvilClone IIRC

badp

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@OrigamiRobot Hmmm, I need to check this out

Powerlord

@badp Buying a game that costs more than $15?

kalina

eugh

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

15:48

@badp Are you still going without a pagefile?

badp

81% memory occupied, TF2 is taking a mere 323 MB

@YiJiang'sEvilClone I've yet to begin

kalina

I've just tried to teach one of our installation consultants how to clear cookies and temporary internet files

I have failed

badp

although I did follow a suggestion to specify a fixed pagefile size

kalina

my guess is that she's sat there going "yep I did it" while not even doing anything

Zero Stack

@badp running W7 or W 8 ? just wondering

badp

15:48

8

Memory committed: 7.2/7.5 GB

okay, that's kind of concerning

kalina

6.1/32

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

Oh, no. The Steam key bundled the games together. Ah well.

Ben Brocka

@badp Got a leak?

badp

@BenBrocka I closed a bunch of tabs and dropped to 6.6 GB

if I restarted my pinned tabs I'd grab more ram back as well

Ben Brocka

chkdsk managed to fill up most of the free memory of my 16GB RAM

fredley

15:50

Oooh, a new Wool book!

Ben Brocka

I think that's a chkdsk bug with large drives though

fredley

If you haven't read Wool, read it. Excellent stuff.

Powerlord

...how do you run out of RAM on a system that has 8 7.5GB?

badp

@Powerlord that's ram + swap

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

Oh, I have some extra keys from Humble Bundle for Android 4

Ben Brocka

15:52

8's not all THAT mcuh these days, butstill a bit odd unless you're running graphics/processing intensive stuff

badp

@BenBrocka after restarting my pinned tabs I'm down to 4.8 GB

although I only recovered 1 GB of ram

funny how that works

kalina

@badp do you have 4gb of ram and 4gb of swap?

murgatroid99

@fredley Nice. I would get it, but I'm re-reading the entire Wheel of Time series

badp

@kalina basically

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

Machinarium, Cogs, Swords & Soldiers HD, Zen Bound 2, Avadon: The Black Fortress

Ben Brocka

15:52

@badp Idle stuff should get shuffled to swap so that's not super surprising

kalina

well then, it's quite easy to fill up 4gb of ram

fredley

@murgatroid99 They are short stories, not a huge commitment (especially given how fast you'll read them)

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

None of which are terribly exciting on the desktop except for Machinarium if you ask me

fbueckert

@murgatroid99 Yay!

kalina

I find it much harder to fill up 8

fbueckert

15:53

I'm re-reading, too.

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

But, you know, if you want it just ping me

kalina

and I've never filled 16

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@kalina I managed to almost fill 8 by doing video editing

badp

@kalina In retrospect I don't know how I've lived for two years on 3 GB of RAM (32 bits Windows)

Ben Brocka

I think I've gone over 8 while either recording/video editing while playing a game

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

15:54

Also have an extra key for Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP

Ben Brocka

Only time I've gotten worse was a memory leak

murgatroid99

@fredley Yeah, I read the 5 Wool books and the first two Shift books

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

Which is a pretty nice game

If not I'll probably send them to a friend

kalina

@badp in retrospect, I don't know how I lived without an SSD

Powerlord

Sounds like next week is going to have a large Patch Tuesday.

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

15:59

Hmmm, why?

Ben Brocka

@kalina SSDs are delicious

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