The Bridge

Ivo Flipse

06:18

how long did it take you to type such a long answer @tzenes :P

tzenes

I typed it up this morning

I just got home so I posted it

I think it was maybe 10-15 minutes?

plus 20 minutes writing an email last night

I kind of like the list I made here: gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/4035/…

Ivo Flipse

looks fairly comprehensive

tzenes

I tried

boston.com/ae/specials/culturedesk/2010/07/…

wow

Ivo Flipse

you only now read it?

tzenes

yeah

starcraft news I know the day it comes out

everything else, I"m a month behind

LessPop_MoreFizz

06:31

Thing is, in the context he's talking about, he's right

Ivo Flipse

in his alternate reality yeah

LessPop_MoreFizz

speaking as somebody that has been hip deep in the music scene online, he's 100% right, it's a dead scene.

nothing relevant is happening at all

Ivo Flipse

it's their own fault

LessPop_MoreFizz

Yes and no.

Ivo Flipse

they could have taken a lot of stuff into their own hands

LessPop_MoreFizz

06:33

which 'they' are you talking about?

because if you mean the labels, you're mssing the whole point.

Ivo Flipse

the artists really, in the end the labels are just a middle man

tzenes

I'm not sure you're right about the lables @less

it seems to me they had an opportunity to establish online as "their" medium

Ivo Flipse

if you're a great artist with an established user base it's sometimes worth the risk to drop your label

tzenes

and they kind of gave it up to Apple and others

LessPop_MoreFizz

:179354 Sure, but that's not what Prince is talking about.

tzenes

06:35

oh, then yeah

LessPop_MoreFizz

Prince doesn't sell records to make money. He sells records to market his live show.

The internet has, from a music standpoint, lost it's credibility as a source of cool

that's his point.

Ivo Flipse

plus the artists could have made a collective organization to do what the labels do, just to fill their pockets and not the label's

tzenes

no, Prince is right, when the internet first dropped a lot of bands were making a name for themselves on myspace

now its just the rehashed facebook fan pages

no one cares about

LessPop_MoreFizz

the internet has little to no cultural currency in the music world outside of being a faster way to get information that used to be in print.

tzenes

I think the larger issue is that the internet generation grew up to like the same music people offline did

Ivo Flipse

06:37

I do think that if artists would poor some of their marketing money into web-activity, it could be different

tzenes

You don't see 4chan memes in modern songs

because the internet generation didn't buy music

LessPop_MoreFizz

:179366 They are. They're pouring buckets and buckets of money in. We're just in a period of backlash.

tzenes

we're essentially the people who used napster/kazaa/bittorrent

LessPop_MoreFizz

:179368 I think that's missing the point to an extent as well. But then, I may have a different perspective on this.

Ivo Flipse

they think a website is just a brick-and-mortar store without the brick-and-mortar, so users will come anyway

tzenes

06:38

and since we didn't vote with our wallets, artists aren't producing for us

Ivo Flipse

instead of setting up their own pandora

LessPop_MoreFizz

(Once upon a time, I ran one of the more influential 'MP3 Blogs' out there. Hell, helped coin the term.)

Ivo Flipse

making sure people get to discover their music

they slap down an initiative like Pandora

tzenes

well that's part of it @ivo, but even as a source of inspiration the internet has failed

Ivo Flipse

relying on radio instead of starting your own radio station

tzenes

06:39

and I think that's what prince is getting at

not as a source of marketing

LessPop_MoreFizz

:179374 No, they're actually quite good about that side of things these days. They really are. The shit the games industry pulls makes the music business look downright enlightened.

Ivo Flipse

MTV was cool, because it felt you were close to artists, just like with Myspace

and why some do well on Youtube

LessPop_MoreFizz

What he's getting at is 'being successful on the internet' is worthless. It has no cultural currency. It doesn't last you long enough to do any good, it doesn't make any money, it's a fools chase.

Ivo Flipse

well, the games and music industry are friendly compared to the movie industry

LessPop_MoreFizz

it's not about inspiration or 'marketing' per se.

tzenes

06:40

That's not entirely true

Ivo Flipse

Justin Bieber disagrees

tzenes

a number of people have been very successful off the internet and made a living out of it

Ivo Flipse

as do Lady Gaga and what's the dumb blondes name?

tzenes

I think the larger issue is that the internet crowd doesn't buy music

Ivo Flipse

Susan Boyle's video has been watched more on the internet than anywhere else

LessPop_MoreFizz

06:41

:179391 Prince would tell you that Bieber will be completely forgotten in a year, and that Gagas success is primarily because of what she's accomplished offline.

Ivo Flipse

they don't buy it, but you can still sell ads with your own music

LessPop_MoreFizz

As for Susan Boyle, like Bieber, she'll be forgotten soon enough too.

Ivo Flipse

Bieber's pockets will be long filled by then

LessPop_MoreFizz

Hell, the only reason she's in the news atm is that Lou Reed made her cry.

Ivo Flipse

and if they don't have the value to draw attention, then good riddance

c'est la vie

LessPop_MoreFizz

06:42

:179397 But again, Prince isn't talking about dollars straight up. Selling records is irrelevant to him.

Ivo Flipse

why should artists have eternal life, but companies go down the drain

tzenes

who the fuck is Justin Bieber?

LessPop_MoreFizz

:179403 You're better off not knowing.

Ivo Flipse

a fellow canadian

tzenes

curiosity and cats...

wow, this kid is going to make a mint

anyway, I think we agree that the internet isn't a place to make your name in music

I think we disagree on the reasons why

Ivo Flipse

06:46

I think they simply fail to use the internet the right way, in the end it's just another medium

and they should have cut all the middle men long ago

both the labels and the resellers

anyone can buy your stuff without anyone's help

but that's not going to happen, so everyone will keep happily pirating

and I shall dream of a world without profit

see you in about 8 hours

tzenes

night

Oh JD, when are you going to stop fooling around with Broodwars and come play SC2

or flash

I bet flash switches to Zerg

radp

morning

tzenes

morning

how's life?

radp

I just woke up :)

tzenes

nice

radp

06:58

I assume you're heading to bed instead?

tzenes

soon

I've had a long day

radp

07:11

tzenes

07:28

night

radp

nite

radp

10:39

I just got owned.

It was a 1v1 race. The guy had gained enough advantage on me to go off the radar

With powerup trickery I got back onto him

then he crashes in a wall

I pass him

and he ragequits.

«Lost connection to all opponents. Race aborted.»

radp

14:05

The higher level races I do in NFS:W the more I wish collision detection between drivers was off

the WHOLE race is RAM RAM RAM RAM RAM RAM RAM RAM RAM RAM RAM RAM RAM RAM

radp

14:37

and then some more ramming

tzenes

15:01

morning

seriously though: gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/7444/…

Cristina

morning was like 12 hours ago for me :P but morning tzenes

tzenes

morning @crist

C. Ross

why does everyone have to be so far away? I'd love to have a beer with y'all sometime

tzenes

In theory there is nothing that stops us from drinking and talking in chat... you know other than that we'd be sad losers drinking alone with our computers...

Cristina

beer....

C. Ross

15:16

:180069 Alcohol + The Internets can have tragic consequences

radp

:180066 Because that'd be awesome and RL obviously sucks :P

tzenes

Alcohol + * can have tragic consequences

C. Ross

true, true, but two things that reduce inhibitions put together?

one of which makes a public record of everything you do there

radp

:180080 okay, nevermind.

C. Ross

and is crawling with hordes of <strike>reavers</strike> trolls

tzenes

15:18

its like that time I went to Vegas with a Camcorder

damn you GSLs, why must you be on Korean time

its also 6pm KST

what's up with that?

Cristina

its the 15th in Korea right now

tzenes

I know

which means Ro32 is tonight

and Idra once again takes the field as the Great White American <s>Hype</s> HOPE

Cristina

oh yes SC2....played the beta haven't bought the game yet...it's on my to do list in the next 5 years

Cristina

i'm not yet prepared to face all the cheese strategies all over again

LessPop_MoreFizz

@tzenes thanks for taking a crack at that Morrowind question.

tzenes

15:28

sorry

I saw the exclusive part and went in the wrong direction

will someone close this question: gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/7444/…

Cristina

done. frankly if he was my husband and "forced" me to play something, anything the next morning he would've received a very disturbing phone call from my lawyer.

tzenes

Someone's answer was actually: "knock her up"

Cristina

it's not healthy to nag your partner into playing with you, plus there is no right answer to it especially when it comes to female gamers.

radp

why does it need closing? :/

I mean, if the question feeds another soul into Farmville then DELETE it

4

Cristina

because there is no one good answer to it, plus he wants it for his wife which is even more harder to pin down since we don't know the poor woman.

C. Ross

15:38

and because it's basically argumentative ... it's exactly the kind of thing that starts flame wars

tzenes

16:07

just need one more: gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/7403

FallenAngelEyes

Evening all

tzenes

hey fallen

also, later people I'm off to work

FallenAngelEyes

hiya and later, tzenes

Ivo Flipse

good morning misses

FallenAngelEyes

How goes it? :)

10

Q: Getting the Wife to play more

Here is the situation: My wife only ever got in contact with videogames after meeting me. Before she hadn't even played Tetris or anything. Nowadays she has two games she religiously play: Bookworm on the PC and Mr. Driller on the Gameboy Advance. Usually she would not touch a PS3 or Xbox Cont...

Wow o_O

Ivo Flipse

16:21

stiff neck, but well rested

DavRob60

:180210 "knock her up" was really not, but really not what i though about when I wrote this.

FallenAngelEyes

get a massage!

Ivo Flipse

that will only remind my GF how much she likes mine :P

but I'll give it a shot anyway :P

FallenAngelEyes

hahaha

Troggy

@IvoFlipse SU contest room.

radp

17:36

Mark

Mark 0

LessPop_MoreFizz

antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2007/07/…

radp

Mark 1

It took me five~ hours to make a four minutes' street in Minecraft

I guess that's a decent ratio

LessPop_MoreFizz

I'm terrified of minecraft and won't play it because I know I'll just get sucked in

but this is amazing:

►

radp

lol :D

Ivo Flipse

now those kind of video's should be allowed on Meta :P

Jin

17:48

btw do you guys have any thoughts on the 404/captcha/error page images?

i know there are post for them

LessPop_MoreFizz

I love the R.O.B. for 404

erm for captcha

Jin

but what i'm proposing is, instead of using random internet lol pictures, maybe we should have custom made ones that fit the theme

LessPop_MoreFizz

and the 404 is perfect the way it is

Jin

aka pixel art themed

Ivo Flipse

the one with the princess in the other castle?

Jin

17:50

i think we took that picture out a while back

radp

You know what is amazing?

►

Jin

i see there's a underly story going on, the alien UFO mother ship invasion in the header, and the footer is the human defense preparation.

Ivo Flipse

minecraft looks like lego

radp

it kinda is.

Jin

@badp i like the pixel font in that video..

Ivo Flipse

17:51

and actually the graphics aren't that bad if you looked at the 3d shapes on that sword

radp

@Jin, it comes from Minecraft. I don't know what is it he actually uses.

Jin

that one is a lot more readable than silkscreen

man i wish i saved all those pixel arts i did in the early 90s on MS Paint...

i made some epic space battle scenes

radp

"What is the font used in Minecraft" is a question for Gaming or GameDev?

Jin

dafont.com/bitmap.php

radp

looks like this one then, dafont.com/apple.font

Ivo Flipse

17:55

I see, they changed the shape of the letters to be more square, so you have less of that pixelated effect around the edges @Jin

Jin

i'm going to redo some of the fonts in the design

Ivo Flipse

have we had halo reach questions yet?

Jin

most pixel fonts are designed for n px only. i think i need a 10px one

LessPop_MoreFizz

@jin Can we steal the Captcha from Hyperspin? hyperspin-fe.com/forum/register.php?do=signup (warning, page has terrible load times, images often time out, you may need to refresh. :/)

Jin

@LessPop_MoreFizz i'm not sure if we can, due to copyrights. but it won't be hard for me to mimic the retro pixel gaming arts

i'm mostly asking for 1) random internet lol pics vs 2) custom made pixel images made by me

radp

18:01

the more I see for Minecraft latest the less it looks appealing

I prefer the simple bliss of Minecraft alpha

LessPop_MoreFizz

:180595 I was mainly joking and wanted an excuse to link the best captcha on the web (IMO)

Jin

@LessPop_MoreFizz ah.

Oak

@LessPop it is indeed awesome

Ivo Flipse

►

who's in for fried unicorn?

radp

anyway -- @jzy, Minecraft's font is stored in this picture. I can't find any licensing information, however.

Jin

18:11

@badp that image isn't loading

radp

It has loaded

Jin

it's ok. i see a bunch free pixel fonts that have potential

radp

It's white on alpha.

Jin

oh..

radp

Yeah, browsers could display a standard chequered pattern for images...

Ivo Flipse

18:13

If this ran Android it would be nice for playing games:

radp

Holy shit

►

LessPop_MoreFizz

Minecraft can be a terrifying game.

radp

I just don't know how he suddenly knew he had to turn around.

Oak

Ugh

Oak

Not really a question.

LessPop_MoreFizz

18:22

On the one hand: Achron is amazing and deserves attention. On the other hand, that is a bad question to get it attention.

Jin

i'm thinking about retooling the tags design. going for a non-tag shaped tag.

any suggestions?

Ivo Flipse

non-tag shaped tag? I think I don't really understand you :)

Oak

I think he means the image around tags

Oak

Which is now shaped like a suitcase tag

LessPop_MoreFizz

Maybe something like a centipede?

Jin

18:24

@LessPop_MoreFizz how does that represent a tag?

LessPop_MoreFizz

:180668 It doesn't at all. It just fits the physical space.

Non-tag shaped after all :P

Jin

i like the shape the badges have now, so i don't want another rectangular shape for tags..

LessPop_MoreFizz

Ah, gotcha.

Jin

i've been looking at tons of game screenshots, i haven't found anything that can be used for a tag.

Ivo Flipse

If you'd allow us to supply pixel art for big shot tags @Jin, we could all make them look like sponsored ones

radp

18:26

I thought the tags looked fine.

Jin

the thing with tags though, is that they show up below the questions on the question list pages. so i don't want they to look too fancy, or the page will look busy.

FallenAngelEyes

7

Q: Total Cost of Mass Effect 2

What is the total cost for Mass Effect 2 including all its DLC as of the Shadow Broker release?

xbox-360 rpg mass-effect-2

The entire comments thread there seems kind of unnecessary o_O;;

Oak

@Fallen agreed. Going to play a bit with the delete button there.

Macha

So, QuickSave is out of the question :( Oh well.

FallenAngelEyes

Really? How so?

Ivo Flipse

18:34

those are tags

you made our badges look like them :P

Oak

@Fallen it will be great if you could flag things like that for moderator attention next time :)

FallenAngelEyes

Will do, it was an entire back and forth so I wasn't sure if I should do that or not.

Oak

@Macha what makes you think that? If you're talking about Jin's screenshots, I think he's just toying with different names

Macha

Oh, it was the screenshots.

FallenAngelEyes

Oh I see now, the tags are kinda like dogtags

Macha

18:37

Also, the fact that SO registered that domain.

FallenAngelEyes

It did? So what are we now?

Oak

@Jin what about tetris bricks?

Macha

Still gaming.se for the moment.

Oak

I mean the long one

Oak

Though actually it will probably look weird with different lengths, never mind

Ivo Flipse

18:39

I'd say it's the badges that should have a more distinct look, not the tags

plus badges normally look more awesome, though I like the colored coins

Jin

most gaming badges are rather simple. e.g. Xbox achievements.

i'm ok with how the badges look now. i'm just toying with the tag look. although it's not a top priority right now. there's so much other stuff to do for now

Oak

Hey, apparently cooking also have a grace note.

Oak

9

A: Should we lean more heavily to editing questions vs. closing them?

Quoting from the question: It seems to me that when a borderline question comes in, we have a few options: close it (with a good explanation of course) comment on it asking for clarification or rewrite edit it into an acceptable form These options are not mutually exclusive. ...

Macha

2 Graces? brain implodes

3

Ivo Flipse

well Aaronut and Hobodave are both semi-Grace's

Macha

18:48

So, what SE sites do you think won't make it?

radp

Is gamedev actually being used?

Ivo Flipse

gadgets

or at least not in its current form

I believe some are advocating to allow programming questions on Gamedev, instead of asking them on SO

radp

:180778 is that a joke? :)

Ivo Flipse

actually no

radp

uh, why ban them in the first place?

isn't that like, er, the whole point?

Ivo Flipse

18:50

15

Q: Programming Questions: Here or "Belongs on Stackoverflow"?

I know the features wouldn't be installed until this SE makes it out of the public beta. But in the event that it does, I think that this is something that we should be prepared for. What would the criteria be for deciding if a question would be left here, or suggesting it be on Stackoverflow?

discussion featured migration

Macha

And now the whole tags vs. sections business shows up again.

@badp: Stuff like AI, level design, etc

Ivo Flipse

well not ban, people just didn't ask them there

radp

The answer obviously should "game dev specific programming questions," like "what's wrong with my shader?" or getting help with the Unreal Engine APIs imho <.<

Macha

The different SE sites are basically categories. Which is fine for stuff like gaming, like cooking, that have no overlap with the others.

But then things like gamedev and SO, Apple and SU, Unix and SU, etc. don't fit so well into it.

Ivo Flipse

well Unix/Ubuntu and Apple have overlap with SU

exactly

but I dont mind, as long as the questions are being asked on our network of sites

I think the Android proposal would benefit from programming questions, though not every Android dev would want to ask them on the same place as my how do I root my phone

LessPop_MoreFizz

18:52

:180796 And the result, at least on Apple was that for the first few days there was a frenzy of terrible questions that wouldn't have last 5 minutes on SU about software reccomendations.

Ivo Flipse

the new Android proposal is just the same

LessPop_MoreFizz

No Mods No Masters etc.

Ivo Flipse

actually Robert Cartaino wants the new mods to learn this for themselves, that you can't let these get out of hand

LessPop_MoreFizz

And on that anarchic note, I am off to go do my civic duty and engage in PARTICIPATORY DEMOCRACY. WHOOOOO.

Ivo Flipse

but it's like letting kids play with fire, sure they have to grow up, but do we really want Freddy Kreuger teens?

LessPop_MoreFizz

18:53

later all

Ivo Flipse

bye :)

Macha

Bye

Oak

bye

Jin

how do you bold stuff in chat?

Ivo Flipse

same as anywhere else like so (* *)

radp

18:56

It uses the same mini markdown for comments

Jin

ok i'm such a nubcake

i ought to know since i designed the ui for the chat..

Ivo Flipse

lol, that's annoying :P

radp

*italic* - _italic_- **bold** - __bold__ - `code`

2

Ivo Flipse

thanks @badp

radp

Homework: how do you write `code` in code formatting?

Arda Xi

18:57

What do you mean?

Macha

Hey, anyone who plays table-top games (yes, OT, sorry). None of my RL friends are interested, but I want to start playing a few. Are there any online sites to play them on?

radp

:180827 format "`code`" with code formatting

Arda Xi

:180828 Tell me when you know

Ivo Flipse

lol @Macha what happened to your question?

Arda Xi

:180829 what's 'code formatting' then... just backticks?

radp

18:58

yeah

Arda Xi

in backticks

Macha

:180832 Thought I was posting a second message, was editing the old one.

Arda Xi

code

radp

yes, now replace "in backticks" with "`code`" =]

Arda Xi

`code`

radp

18:59

gives Arda a cookie

Ivo Flipse

guess you'll have to wait for the new SE site @Macha ;)

Arda Xi

eats

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