The Bridge

tzenes

00:08

@JavadocMD scroll up

JavadocMD

:169606 I saw.

tzenes

02:28

Man there are too many videos in ff13

tzenes

02:45

I'd skip them but I already don't know what's going on

Jeff Atwood

02:59

new meta house ads

tzenes

Very cool

Jeff Atwood

this replaces the generic stats / "help us grow this site!" which is still visible on the home page

tzenes

Only seems to work on /+ pages and not index

Ah I see that's what you mean by still visible

StackOverflow.Helpers.HtmlUtilities+FetchUrlException: Unable to fetch from api.meta.gaming.stackexchange.com/1.0/… ---> System.Net.WebException: The operation has timed out at System.Net.HttpWebRequest.GetResponse() at StackOverflow.Helpers.HtmlUtilities.FetchUrl(String url, Int32 timeoutMs) in c:\builds\ServerFault\prod\source\StackOverflow\Helpers\HtmlUtilities.cs:line 948 --- End of inner excep

@Jeff looks like something broke

Jeff Atwood

03:25

it just timed out, it refreshes every 10 minutes

LessPop_MoreFizz

I've gotta say, this new Streaming shit Blizzard is doing w/ cataclysm is really fucking cool.

tzenes

@less link?

LessPop_MoreFizz

let me see if I can find a concise explanation

the tl;dr is that you can start playing once only ~5 of 15 gigs is downloaded

and it just loads whatever other content is needed on demand as you run around

tzenes

oh yeah, they do that with the demo client too

on those code they're always giving away

as long as they're caching client side, its a brilliant way to do digital download

LessPop_MoreFizz

this is actually a bit more advanced than that.

trying to find an in-depth about it

youtube.com/watch?v=2U0EDGAEm-g&feature=related decent example of it in action

Starts playing with a fresh install 15% downloaded, and everything just pops in as it downloads

Jin

04:17

WTF We are state of the art! RT @jzy saw this link again today, still same depressing. North Korean Arcade. http://bit.ly/2hye8v

Tweeted by KimJongil on September 10, 2010 at 4:13 AM

lol

radp

07:31

in other news

16

Q: Will the "Third Place" be available for use in discussion during the beta phase?

Part of me wanted to tag this as a feature-request, because it would be nice, but I feel that if plans aren't already in place for this, then it isn't too wise to try and scramble it in. We're only as far as the commitment phase, but I've been reading about the plans for when sites hit the close...

(point finger to status-completed)

Ivo Flipse

08:29

does your list of metacritic goes further back?

btw chat.serverfault.com has launched, which explains the [status-complete]

radp

08:43

:170236 yes

I see they're testing per-site chats now, then?

Ivo Flipse

oh he said past 5 years, didn't see that one

I actually tried creating a similar question as one of the first

since there are simply games that are miles better than anything else

Ivo Flipse

08:59

well it seems so

guess SU will get it soon

Arda Xi

:170237 SF isn't a beta site

Ivo Flipse

so?

it's the second oldest

SU is likely to be next

Arda Xi

I know, but it doesn't say anything about our site

Ivo Flipse

well then it's most likely web apps (when it's live)

and when we launch we will get it

radp

09:19

I think per-site splits will only harm the feeling of greater community I was getting from this unified chat.

but oh well.

Ivo Flipse

I just mentioned that on SF chat

you can't ping someone on another site

radp

chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/rooms/226/game-recommendations

Ivo Flipse

so I have to go to a dozen sites to be able to chat with them

radp

It's in the gaming topbar, might as well be in there :P

:170275 What did balpha and Marc (or well, those who get to have a say) reply?

Ivo Flipse

that they are indeed separate

they didn't give their personal opinion about it

radp

09:22

I see.

Ivo Flipse

they don't want us to be a social platform

I might even agree that for the Q&A part it would just be noise

it keeps people from doing what we want them to do

but if people want to chat, they will find a way, whether they want it or not

radp

meh, the feed informs us of what we want ourselves to do.

Arda Xi

Something's wrong with the tags here

12

Q: Is Torchlight a Multiplayer game?

I loved Diablo II when I was younger, and now I (just) noticed Torchlight. Is Torchlight a multiplayer game? Does it support co-operative mode?

pc multiplayer co-op torchlight

I think someone just added both co-op and cooperative-mode

Ivo Flipse

then the latter got changed with the synonyms

Arda Xi

yeah

radp

09:30

:170288 meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/8478/…

> I've added a moderator function which deduplicates all current question tags, and all post history tag entries. The next time there's a duplicate tag problem, just flag one of them for moderator attention and we'll run the tag deduplicator page.

Arda Xi

this is the only one though

radp

Well, it just happens that if a question is tagged x and y and a x ← y synonym is created, that question will be tagged x and x

That's what the deduplicator is for -- I believe.

radp

11:19

HERE GOES

Ivo Flipse

12:17

woehoe my first SO question

181

Q: Peak detection in a 2D array

I'm helping a veterinary clinic measuring pressure under a dogs paw. I use Python for my data analysis and now I'm stuck trying to divide the paws into (anatomical) subregions. I made a 2D array of each paw, that consists of the maximal values for each sensor that has been loaded by the paw over...

python image-processing

C. Ross

12:27

So how's gaming doing?

Ivo Flipse

the site or my gaming?

C. Ross

I was asking about the site, but I'd be happy to hear about your gaming

Ivo Flipse

SC2 in a nut-shell: you win some, you lose some

C. Ross

yeah

Ivo Flipse

the site is doing fine, we have less registered users than web apps, but draw a lot more page views

C. Ross

12:31

I've noticed that pattern on a couple of sites ... less questions, but lots of views ...

Ivo Flipse

also the amount of questions keeps increasing steadily

C. Ross

DF in a nut-shell: you lose some

Ivo Flipse

lol

and are you liking your RPG site?

C. Ross

fairly well

it's not growing as fast as gaming did, and we're still training some users on asking answerable questions

but I already get really good answers

5

Q: What's the maximum number of minions for an encounter?

What is the maximum number of minions that can be pitted against a party 0f 5 characters of equal level without being overwhelming (as defined by the DMG)? ie: How many Kobold minions can I pit against my first level party and expect them to survive?

dnd4.0 combat

Ivo Flipse

it might be a little harder there, since a lot of die-hard RPG-ers (board game version at least) also like to live in fantasy worlds. Objectivity doesn't exist in that reality

but board games are all like SC2, which this site is proving to be an excellent for

C. Ross

12:35

lol, indeed

there are a few people like that in the community, but mostly people want to discuss or gather ideas

Ivo Flipse

crap, how do I safe an array to a file with python :S

stupid file I/O I only bothered with the reading part

Mechko

for element in array:
write to file and format nicely so I don't have trouble reading it out again, please
thank you python

Ivo Flipse

12:59

well apparently array has a .tofile() method, but I have no idea how to open it myself :P

Mechko

13:43

@IvoFlipse make a new file f, Array.tofile(f) and then to open it, Array.fromfile(f)?

Ivo Flipse

hmmm that last part would work :P

nope, doesn't have a fromfile. But I could always just save my entire workspace and dump it online :P

Mechko

@IvoFlipse I tend to only read documentation when someone ELSE has a problem :D

doc.astro-wise.org/array.html#ArrayType-tofile

that claims it does

Ivo Flipse

yeah, but when I tried it on an array, it doesn't get listed :S

ah well

Mechko

is there read()?

oh fromfile should take two argument

Ivo Flipse

well it starts nagging that my object is a list

while I even said it should be an array

Mechko

13:50

hm

Ivo Flipse

no idea how to create an empty array, other than changing an empty list into an array

Mechko

14:13

so should I buy Dragon Age origin for 30 bucks or should I get the original starcraft for 20 for my mac?

Lee

Do you have SCII?

Ivo Flipse

don't get SC1 if you've played SC2, you'll hate the controls

Mechko

no

I don't have sc2 but I think I will end up getting it in a few months

if it gets cheaper

I'm an obsessive gamer

I play one game at a time for anywhere between 2 weeks and a year

Ivo Flipse

sounds familiar

Mechko

I guess I'll just get DA:o

Lee

14:26

Save up for SCII instead. :D

That was badly phrased. What I'm saying is I think it's worth it.

Mechko

well it's not the money per se... it's just that SCII is more likely to be a 'every spare moment' thing than DAO

Ivo Flipse

yup, that's for sure

though I managed to play mission per mission the first week (don't go online!)

so then you can play for like 30 mins and go on with your life

Arda Xi

15:08

Grace Note is Epic.

3

Ivo Flipse

@GraceNote makes it sound like we're playing a game on the site

LessPop_MoreFizz

16:20

:170696 Well, at the end of the day, most games boil down to systems of organization, boundaries, and tools for rating success or failure within that system.

Which, incidentally is exactly what we're trying to define here.

So... yeah,.

tzenes

17:11

jblaske might be one of my favorite people

he had this amazing quote

alexanderpas

in Dwarf Fortress Succession on Meta Stack Overflow Chat, Sep 10 at 17:11, by alexanderpas

Save file: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1124205/region51-3.zip Blog post (on my own blog): http://dropdev.org/node/8

tzenes

> i think we need to make an exception to the rule, that when things are tagged as game-rec they are "popularity contest" instead of standard Q & A.

@alexanderpas would you be willing to put that on the gamingse blog?

the post I mean

alexanderpas

sure.

tzenes

sweet, do you have a wordpress account?

Ivo Flipse

@tzenes: check this

181

Q: Peak detection in a 2D array

I'm helping a veterinary clinic measuring pressure under a dogs paw. I use Python for my data analysis and now I'm stuck trying to divide the paws into (anatomical) subregions. I made a 2D array of each paw, that consists of the maximal values for each sensor that has been loaded by the paw over...

python image-processing

tzenes

17:16

first off, super cool

secondly you got some decent answers, but I was hoping they'd mention more algorithms

I like this one: stackoverflow.com/questions/3684484/…

as essentially he's doing mipmapping

I just wish he'd say that

Ivo Flipse

I used his method, the results are decent

I did exactly what you suggested, but I didn't know how to iterate through the list and drop any overlapping ones

so when I got fed up, I decided to give SO a shot for a change

tzenes

haha

its ok

his answer has code and that's always superior

Hi @dave

alexanderpas

:171223 dropdev

Mechko

sweet I found a $5 off code for direct2drive

tzenes

@alex I need the email address

alexanderpas

17:24

:171271 mail at my domain

tzenes

done

Mechko

no one is interested in a $5 discount on D2D? :(

LessPop_MoreFizz

:171307 You didn't imply that you had one to give out

Mechko

ah well I do. I think anyone can use it, at most once per account. The code is PAX and it gives you $5 off any purchase on D2D before taxes.

LessPop_MoreFizz

17:41

I'll keep it in mind if I buy anything off D2D anytime soon

tzenes

Hey I'm looking for some feedback on this answer: meta.gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/997/…

LessPop_MoreFizz

I think you're fundamentally right in that the engine just doesn't work for it.

Ivo Flipse

I already upvoted you :P

plus like I answered myself: I would only allow it if the community showed they could make something decent out of it

alexanderpas

:171219 could you review the blog post?

C. Ross

:170670 Grace is far more awesome than I am. Her analysis and writing humbles me.

Mechko

17:48

I feel bad that my response to her post would be like 10 words :(

tzenes

very cool @alex save it and I'll push it out

Cristina

depends on the community, the system with ups and downs will lead to so called "fanboy-ism". Put a question like "what should i buy Modern Warfare 2 for the Xbox360 or the PS3" and you just started the spark.

alexanderpas

:171335 --- @tzenes = SC2 --- @GraceNote = Meta ---

C. Ross

Welcome @Cristina, and yes, that's the crux of it

I don't know, is tzenes in the high end tourneys?

Mechko

@Cristina I completely agree with you, but I think even strategy questions lead to a (lesser) degree of fanboyism

tzenes

17:50

@Cross sadly I'm not that good

Mechko

that is, if they are not carefully phrased

tzenes

I've played with a couple of the people who do play in those and I can tell the difference

once you start playing top 5 in diamond they're just in a league of their own

C. Ross

yeah

tzenes

diamond 20 = That guy you know who is really good at baseball and maybe was third string in college
Diamond 1 = Derek Jeter

its like night and day

C. Ross

no offense intended btw

tzenes

17:53

none taken

Cristina

@Mechko could be, people use different strategies for games, but i think we should be respectful to others and their opinions

alexanderpas

:171338 you can push it.

tzenes

@alex done

gamingse.wordpress.com/2010/09/10/…

Mechko

Is there a game recommendations SO or a more broadly metagameSO (not in the sense of meta.gaming but more like Q&A peripheral to the actual playing of specific games)

Cristina

asking for strategies should automatically be transformed in community wiki since there is never a winning strategy that will work 100%

tzenes

18:12

@Cristina A broad sweep for strategies might be susceptible to that, but asking for explanation of a strategy, or established strategies that have characteristic X should result in 1 or 2 answer plus an explanation

Cristina

@tzenes true... hmmm it would be nice to have an obligatory comment for your vote.

Cristina

be it up or down.

Downvoter

:171375 you can't do that

Mechko

We could request that for game-rec etc questions. Not an obligatory comment but just an etiquette thing. I'm sure most people would subscribe to that

Downvoter

it's impossible to implement

Cristina

18:20

gamers and etiquette is an oxymoron sometimes

Mechko

Well with enough reminders posted on every game rec question that comes up I'm sure most of the regulars would start doing it relatively often.

Cristina

@JuanManuel programming wise?

Downvoter

:171386 yep

Downvoter

my comment can always be "dsfsdfdsfsdfsdf"

Mechko

I mean, I know it's not possible to implement with 100% certainty, and programming it is out of the question, but I see no harm in goading people to do it.

radp

18:23

'noon

Mechko

'noon

radp

:170510 Nothing whatsoever

Cristina

we tell people on the forums not to flame yet they still do it, even if you ban them for a couple of days they still keep doing that

Mechko

well I'm hoping for 25% more of upvotes being commented. Even 1 in 4 makes the votes more valuable, since, as Grace said, they are subjective

radp

:171400 Drama is part of the game.

The smaller the community, the more drama is integral to the full experience :D

Cristina

18:26

@badp i'm kinda bored, going on sites and all i see is contradiction on subjective themes, it makes you lol at the end of the day, but that's about it nothing useful gained.

tzenes

OR... we could just delete all game-rec and put this discussion behind us

Cristina

SE should be different, it's not RPGCodex or your local gaming forum

Downvoter

:171415 I'm slowly leaning towards that philosophy

Cristina

that seems the only possible and viable solutions. Put it in the FAQ that we don't allow game recommendations or if you really really want one use the chat feature

tzenes

@Juan I think on a long enough timeline: everyone does

we all started out thinking: ooo, game recommendations, super cool

eventually we learned that the way in which people use them is purely subjective and detrimental to the site as a whole.

radp

18:31

:171412 The very idea behind democracy is that discussion about subjective matters with no clear best option isn't completely pointless. Just sayin' :D

Luckily SO ain't no democracy.

Downvoter

area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/20517/game-recommendations

Downvoter

:)

radp

Not Gaming Related™

Cristina

@badp isn't completely pointless? meaning?

radp

Where's the downvote button? I don't see no downvote button!

Mechko

18:33

imho I think a lot of people came and asked game rec questions to begin with and then it tapered off and died a lot because just in visiting the site they got their dose of game-recs. Look at the most recent questions, or hottest questions etc. I think the only game-rec-like question was badp's question about aggregate best games from the last 5 years

radp

:171457 that there is some point to them and still can reach a wide agreement.

Mechko

well frankly, the whole structure of American Democracy is to extend subjective discussion as far as possible.

Cristina

No, that is called politics, not American Democracy.

Mechko

Well politics in general, but I direct you to the Federalist Papers, specifically Madison 10 and 72(?)

Cristina

I'm not American

radp

18:36

Nor am I

Mechko

fair enough.

tzenes

:171465 there are a bunch of ones from yesterday

Mechko

I still recommend them as light reading. About 2 pages each. The philosophies of the Founding Fathers is very different to the general perception of America that exists today.

Cristina

The morale is that either game-rec is taken out or it will stay there and create havok from time to time.

Mechko

@tzenes well I didn't see them, and I went through several pages. I'm sure they are very annoying to you, though.

tzenes

18:38

gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/…

Mechko

anyways I have to go clean myself before my girlfriend gets home.

be back in like 15 - 20 minutes

radp

I don't see really what's the problem with game rec.

tzenes

Almost every week day we get a game-rec

radp

There are good game recs and horrible game recs.

tzenes

I have yet to see a good one

radp

18:40

There are good how to questions and terrible how to questions.

Mechko

shock horror... almost one game rec a day?? that's flooding the site and making it un-navigable...

radp

There are 132 of them, which makes one every 12 hours or something.

tzenes

@Mechko I've explained many time why they are bad meta.gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/799/… meta.gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/302/… and why they lead to more bad questions meta.gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/768/…

Mechko

and I'm looking at gaming and realizing that most people wont see them unless they search for them

radp

9

A: Top PC Games by Collective Ratings of the past 5 years?

Based on the review aggregator Metacritic: Best games of 2006 Top rated: Out of the Park Baseball 2007 (sports simulation) Best games of 2007 Top rated: The Orange Box (first person shooters) Best games of 2008 Top rated: Galactic Civilizations II: Twilight of the Arnor (turn based strateg...

I actually believe I should have gotten reputation for this game rec answer.

tzenes

18:44

thats not really a recommendation

he asked for a list of collective reviews and you provided them

you could have never mentioned a single game and it still would have been a good answer

radp

Thus making it a game-rec...

tzenes

how is it a game-rec if you don't make a recommendation?

radp

He's asking recommendations for the best games he may have missed out in the last 5 years, any genre, for the pc.

I recommended Metacritic's top rated titles, since he didn't just want one and mentioned "collective ratings".

tzenes

It looks like he just wants to know what the top ratings where

Mechko

Ah but that's something that we would find interesting. Not one of those BAD game rec questions

tzenes

18:46

not necessary a recommendation for something to play

radp

:171547 hence, there are good game-rec questions. :P

tzenes

his question: "Top PC Games by Collective Ratings of the past 5 years"

is that a recommendation?

Ivo Flipse

I actually find it silly that it limits itself to 5 years

Mechko

hehe case and point. So what defines game rec questions is that 1) you ask for games and 2) they are not games/genres that the mods are interested in and 3) they are not phrased in a way that bypasses tzenes game-rec-o-meter

radp

:171556 It's silly if you refuse to read it as a game rec, yeah :)

He's asking for good games he may have missed on. That's the very definition of game-rec.

tzenes

18:48

is he asking for games to play?

radp

> I'm interested in recommendations regarding time-tested classics from the past half-decade.

tzenes

actually it doesn't matter what he is asking

it matters what the answers are

radp

I'm sorry @tzenes, even if it doesn't compute I gave an objective answer to a game-rec question. :P

tzenes

is the question any different if he doesn't plan to play any of those games?

I don't think its a game rec

radp

:171567 is a game-rec any different?

Mechko

18:49

@tzenes not in the least.

tzenes

I think you're being pedantic

yes a game-rec is different

radp

Am I? I don't know, I wrote the only answer.

if it depends on the answer, then I definitely recommended games.

Mechko

ok. tzenes is talking semantics and pragmatics. Time to go.

tzenes

a game-rec desires a game to play. This is why its susceptible to popularity.

radp

if it depends on the question, then it asked for games to play.

tzenes

18:51

like I said I think it matters on the answers not the questions

people write poorly worded questions all the time

radp

I wrote the answer and gave him recommendations based on his criterion.

tzenes

should they be removed because they're poorly worded?

but you didn't have to include a recommendation for that to be a good answer

thus a good answer to a game rec is one that doesn't need to include a recommendation

radp

The answer would have felt cheap had I not done that.

tzenes

this is counter purposes to the desire to play a game

it would have still been correct

I want to know the top game for the last 5 years -> here is a list of aggregated scores for the last 5 years ordered by highest score

Ivo Flipse

@badp it's even ridiculous to limit yourself to the last 5 years. I bought diablo 2 and sc1 last year (wanted sc2 beta invites) and had great fun with them. So why limit yourself? If they rock, they rock, regardless when they were made

radp

18:53

:171592 Simple -- because he has already played them!

Mechko

@tzenes I think pragmatics is a terrible way to justify the semantic difference between questions.

radp

He's asking for games he couldn't play!

Ivo Flipse

some, but not all

Arda Xi

Please don't abuse the site itself just to make a point...

radp

He wants to squeeze the gigahertzs out of his new hot rig and get playing some Crysis at PHOTOREALISTIC+ precision, I don't see what's ridicolous about it.

Ivo Flipse

18:54

I understand he put it in his question, but I've missed countless games even though I played a lot of games, simply because I didn't have enough time/money

tzenes

@Mechko I think discussing the topic without realworld information is largely theoretical and useless

radp

:171603 Have some real world information, read the first revision for that question.

Link

tzenes

Like I said: questions are frequently poorly worded

radp

He added 'by Collective Ratings' only to have his question not closed.

tzenes

their validity should not depend on the user's command of the english language

Mechko

18:56

@ArdaXi This is a question that I would very dearly wanted to know the answer to

tzenes

and I am going to remove the terms "recommendation" and "5 Years" for the same reason

radp

Yeah, let's edit the question so it reads what you want it to read

and not what the asker needs.

Arda Xi

:171616 The way it's asked is still just to make a point, otherwise you wouldn't have put "research purposes" that strangely

tzenes

or so that its better phrased

if he wants a recommendation it should go elsewhere

but the knowledge of where to find aggregated scores is useful HERE

radp

:171625 better phrased to convey what you think the question asks, which I disagree on.

tzenes

18:58

No, better phrased so that it is useful to the site

Cristina

@Mechko metacritic.com/game/pc/defense-grid-the-awakening

Ivo Flipse

@badp, I actually found your answer useful, just that it could be more useful

radp

Sure, mark other questions as duplicate of this one in the future then. It's the dupe policy on the site right? :P

tzenes

now you're just being a jerk

radp

:171636 I know, I was in a rush. Had to give an exam today, y'know. (Also it's CW.)

:171641 I'm just trying to bring home two points with one question.

tzenes

18:59

you don't have to be a jerk to do it

radp

I'm sorry if my disagreeing with you comes off as being a jerk

I'm just trying to be honest here

tzenes

I think you going off topic to make an unrelated point is a bit of a dick move

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