The Bridge - 2010-09-03 (page 1 of 2)

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Grace Note

00:00

So, if you want to know "how to identify items without getting myself killed", then knowing "how to tell the B/U/C status of an item" is absolutely essential. We have two choices on the SE site.

1. Two questions, keep the BUC stuff only in the specific question. Now someone who wants answers to the general question needs to visit both questions and refer between them to get a solution.
2. One question, close specific as duplicate. Someone looking for BUC may stumble across either, but after one click now has the one-stop-shop for all the needs of BUC testing, and then some.

tzenes

yeah, I definately like option 2 here

tzenes

00:21

they should make gunbound for the ipad

Grace Note

Why do I keep getting bombarded with "Does expert gamer mean 20 hours a week of gaming?" questions?

tzenes

where?

and tell them its 10,000 hours on a single game

and then you're an expert at just that game

Grace Note

On my big question, latest new answer

tzenes

@Grace which big question?

Grace Note

Gimme a moment, tackling sunpech's question

@tzenes Feel free to take a stab, since you represent one of our good pro-expertise siders

1

A: Re-evaluating our site - what is the scope of an "acceptable" list, if it exists?

The answer to the question of what is acceptable for these depends on other things being defined first. The first, and most obvious, is what is this site meant to be? The answer I've received to this question is that it is meant to be a place for hard core, or expert, gamers to come and ask/an...

tzenes

00:41

expert answers to expert questions

that is our mandate

voiced for what its worth

wow, you're really active in this thread

tzenes

01:09

brb

Grace Note

:152254 I can't imagine being anything else if I'm going to bring up such an important topic

LessPop_MoreFizz

Can somebody edit the title of this question:

4

Q: How do I beat the false god in Ginormo Sword?

For those who haven't seen it: Ginormo Sword. I've beaten all the bosses but the last one, and he just seems ridiculously difficult. What gems should I be equipping? Do I just need to grind for a long time? For extra clarification (just in case this isn't the last boss), this is the boss that ap...

spoiler rpg flash action-rpg ginormo-sword

Change "last Boss" to "the false god" - it's not the last boss.

JavadocMD

:152306 Would that be putting a spoiler in the title, or do you know ahead of time it's "the false god"?

LessPop_MoreFizz

There's no plot to spoil. It's just the name of a thing that shows up on your screen.

you learn it's name by mousing over it.

JavadocMD

Seems acceptable then.

Grace Note

01:22

Whoa, it's jinguy (sic)!

Hihi~

jjnguy

hey

jjnguy

just thought I'd stop in and see what the gamers were talking about

Grace Note

Now? False gods. Earlier we discussed things ranging from what defines a duplicate to the meaning of love

jjnguy

Sounds deep

jjnguy

But, I'm no gamer, so....carry on...

tzenes

01:39

I'm back

1 hour later…

LessPop_MoreFizz

03:06

:152593 no.

2 hours later…

tzenes

04:55

snitch

tzenes

05:44

through the magic of vnc i have connected my ipad to my computer

Lee

05:54

@tzenes Thanks for the tip. I didn't have to sit here for weeks mute after all.

tzenes

06:07

@lee glad to help

there is also: chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/rooms/226/game-recommendations if you want to check it out

it quiet now, but I'm sure it'll be buzzing tomorrow

anyway, I'm off to bed

night night

3 hours later…

Ivo Flipse

08:51

user image

specially for @badp:

user image

3 hours later…

C. Ross

12:09

Can we get two close votes on

1

Q: Should I install graphics card drivers from Windows Update?

Today I see that there's an update to my graphics card driver (NVidia GT 220) available on Windows Update. Should I install that, or stick to the drivers provided by the manufacturer?

It's definitely not a gaming question. It doesn't even mention a game, or games.

radp

Give me a SU question this one is a dupe of and I'm sold.

Shouldn't be too hard...

C. Ross

If I ask it right now does that count? :-)

radp

:D

Hey, it might run you into the contest for the best question

Ivo Flipse

It would suffice @CRoss, actually a decent question

radp

Systempuntoout won last weeks' with "Do I really have to 'Eject safely'?"

Ivo Flipse

12:13

I like it that hardware vendors use a standardized channel for updates

C. Ross

oh, I like the new chat notification

Ivo Flipse

I was just about to mention that it would get my vote probably :)

C. Ross

Related:

3

Q: Automatic driver search & update on Windows?

Hi there, I have a Dell laptop issued by my employer, and I always find it a real pain to search for, download and maintain their drivers. It baffles me that there does not seem to be a nice way (product, website, ...) to just download the stuff you need, without hassle. The same goes for the ot...

windows drivers update

I'm not going to cross post it. He has a superuser account, and that'd be alittle too much like stealing

radp

:153196 I've just read it and it's not related

Ivo Flipse

comment that he should ask it there then :)

he'll get my upvote

radp

12:15

He could ask it on SU, but that doesn't mean he can't ask it on Gaming

Ivo Flipse

it has nothing to do with gaming, it's not even mentioned

radp

I mean, do we allow gaming troubleshooting?

Drivers management is part of gaming troubleshooting.

C. Ross

If your question is about …

* Networking, servers, or maintaining other people's PCs and contains no source code, ask on Server Fault.
* General computer software or hardware troubleshooting, ask on Super User.
* Web design and HTML/CSS layout, and your job title is "designer", ask on Doctype.

gaming.stackexchange.com/faq

radp

I've read the faq.

but drivers management is part of gaming troubleshooting.

I agree it's a better fit on SU, I just don't see why we should close it

Ivo Flipse

yeah, but like I said: he doesn't even mention gaming

C. Ross

12:18

but it doesn't mention gaming ... lets close it and leave it linked to his (hopefully soon) question on SU

radp

Can I edit gaming into the question? Does that count? :P

Ivo Flipse

it would count, but wouldn't matter

radp

<.<

Ivo Flipse

yeah, I love being a jackass sometimes

radp

Okay, can you abuse your mod powers to migrate it to SU cleanly?

C. Ross

12:20

that's a good question ....

radp

The answer is likely negative but there's no harm in asking

Ivo Flipse

nope, there's currently no migration path between Trilogy and beta sites

radp

Not even towards the trilogy?

Ivo Flipse

and even then, I'm just a regular user on Gaming (unfortunately), so I wouldn't be able to

radp

I thought the problem was migrating into beta sites that might someday vanish into a puff of failed beta.

Ivo Flipse

12:22

well the basic idea is that beta sites don't officially exist until they properly launch

radp

@CRoss The comment I left on the question is meant as a joke

Ivo Flipse

no kidding :P

radp

Okay, so leave it open until the site goes live! :ninja:

Ivo Flipse

no, he should simply ask it on SU

there's no harm in duplicating

I agree, but the others don't

I only want it for my regular cleaning up and editing, not for abusing it against the community :\

but I guess Juan doesn't want the competition

radp

in Gaming on Meta Stack Overflow Chat, Sep 2 at 18:26, by Ivo Flipse

I love abusing my mod powers 8-)

Ivo Flipse

12:26

that's on chat, Diago can sometimes be a prick, so I have to slap him

and I added the gaming blog feed, it's just abusive, because I didn't own the channel

radp

I was kidding, btw.

Ivo Flipse

I know, but you have a point

radp

Now back to trying to break past 2k (sigh)

oh look, free altitude weekend on Steam

Ivo Flipse

I'll have to wait until a new game launches that I actually play

I feel stupid for asking casual ipad gaming questions

C. Ross

:153246 What are you looking forward to?

radp

12:29

Bah, it looks like the Alien Swarm public source code doesn't mention brutal mode

that or windows search in unindexed folders fails.

Yeah, the only mention of "brutal" are

> // A complete, brutal hack, necessitated by our next-week ship date.

and

> // NOTE NOTE: This is here for brutal reasons.

Ivo Flipse

Kinect, but more for the technology (not in their version actually :P)

radp

And the close police wins another battle

Ivo Flipse

I analyze human movement, so it's a very interesting cheap 3D measuring system

woehoe

and Rock Band 3 (with the real guitar thing)

radp

Please keep on removing questions so that I can be further starved for stuff to answer :P

Ivo Flipse

but I'm going on a 24 day road trip in the US at the end of the month, so won't buy anything new until I get back

Ivo Flipse

13:08

is that 9 *.2?

or 1 + (8*0.2)

radp

Can't we go off the record please? I'm embarassed :D

Ivo Flipse

wolframalpha to the rescue :P

or i'll just type it in python

radp

My brain needs some servicing

Ivo Flipse

the second is like 2.600000000001

my brain is getting fried too

I need to come up with an algorithm to divide dog paws into front/back & left/right without knowing their location and order beforehand

radp

You could ask the dog to perform calibration :P

Ivo Flipse

13:15

it won't work :P

radp

Wait for it to have all four paws on the surface, then have the dog give the front right paw to his owner!

"Shake hands with your dog!"

Ivo Flipse

user image

this is just a random measurement, which is actually totally awesome, because everything is nicely divided in time and space

radp

Looks like Gaming's "Site Stats" are broken :/

Ivo Flipse

and at the most you get three paws on the ground (though that could be a nice benchmark)

radp

oh, three paws on the ground, that kind of explains the graph.

Ivo Flipse

13:19

no, no, hang on Ill upload yet another image :P

user image

there's a moment of overlap at a certain point

the image you see above is just the maximum of a certain matrix (because it gives a nice overview)

but it might be a good idea to check when multiple paws hit the ground and then calculate backwards and forwards to see where they move towards

radp

In other news, we're about to hit the 2,000th question

or, more realistically, 1,900 -- given current closing rates :P

Ivo Flipse

are those substracted?

radp

13:36

I would've thought yes

but they aren't

We closed 217 questions out of 1,996

Ivo Flipse

lol, impressive

more than 10%

radp

SuperUser has 4,523 closed out of 50,910 (8.88%)

Ivo Flipse

more or less the same then

you do see less and less questions that are closed because we don't want them on the site

radp

vs 10.9%

Ivo Flipse

it's more questions where users simply don't understand SE or ask dupes now, which is 'normal'\

radp

13:42

Now I just need to undo two downvotes

Okay

So what does "bs", "bc", "fv" mean in gaming.stackexchange.com/tools/votes-hot ?

Okay, asking on meta.

Ivo Flipse

can't load the page, don't have 2k tools

radp

Don't you have the SU 10k tools?

superuser.com/tools/votes-hot

C. Ross

Can you link the meta question?

radp

I haven't finished writing it yet.

C. Ross

well, when you do :-)

Ivo Flipse

13:55

apparently the page got beefed up, but I never go there

C. Ross

The new user post tool is also really useful

Ivo Flipse

I normally just check moderator and comment flags

then check the vote to close list

and I have a feed set up, so I see all question activity (more or less)

if I spot something fishy, I react

the rest... well I should strain myself :P

radp

:153367 meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/63359/…

In other news

gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/6495/…

This dupe question was deleted by the owner but should be undeleted

As usual (sigh) "How to get Yippee-ki-yay Achievement?" was voted as exact duplicate of "How to get Yippee-ki-yay Achievement without walkyrie?"

This community has a meaning of "exact duplicate" I previously wasn't aware of.

C. Ross

see the top starred post on the side

but yes, I voted to undelete

radp

14:10

:153415 Yeah, I upvoted that answer.

Wait, maybe I understood that

"bs" is for bounty start

"bc" is for bounty close

C. Ross

fv?

radp

favourite

C. Ross

ah!

radp

So the main novelty would be in getting to see "standardized" flags, eh?

Like, the full 0 of them. :)

C. Ross

Yeah, we don't get many flags...

Ivo Flipse

14:21

that question shouldn't have been deleted, but if it's a dupe, I don't really care

radp

Here's the problem, it's not a dupe for me

11

A: When is a duplicate question not a duplicate?

Rule of thumb: If you ask a question similar to another question and it is likely to get the exact same answer, you have yourself a duplicate question. In your case, take the opposite of that. If the question is similar and it is likely to NOT get the exact same answer, you likely do not have a ...

Ivo Flipse

2

Q: Editing and retagging to make a duplicate fit?

There's a question currently open, but with one vote to close as duplicate. The open question is about fast user switching in Mac OS 10.6.4 (aka Snow Leopard). The original question has an answer that does correctly answer the new question, but has "leopard" in the title and is explicitly tagg...

discussion retagging duplicates

radp

The whole point for asking "How to get Yippee-ki-yay Achievement without walkyrie?" is because the answer to "How to get Yippee-ki-yay Achievement?" is not enough.

Those are not dupes either

Ivo Flipse

then he should add a distinction to his version, indicating why the answers in the other post didn't help him and he actually has a different (or bigger) problem

radp

First question: "You want to enable fast user switching."
Second question: "Click here, then click here, then click here."

Ivo Flipse

14:27

so he should be changing his question to add distinction, if it's not clear enough, it stays a dupe

leave a mod note, that you want to edit it, to make sure it's no longer a dupe, so they should undelete it

Here comes @JuanManuel to serve you @badp :P

Downvoter

I live to serve

Downvoter

Who do you want me to ban?

Ivo Flipse

he wants "How to get Yippee-ki-yay Achievement without walkyrie? undeleted, so he can edit it into something that's not a dupe, you have the powers to do so :)

Downvoter

hmm, but it was deleted by the owner

Downvoter

it just needs one more normal vote to undelete

Downvoter

14:38

from a 2k user

Downvoter

I wouldn't want to go against his wishes on his question

Ivo Flipse

he deleted it, because it was closed

if @badp edit's it properly, than it's not a dupe and he get's to keep his question

radp

The point is

I do not believe it needs any editing at all

It is a different question already.

"How to do A" is different from "How to do A without B"

because one could answer "Do B, or see the answers to this other question" to the former

(I don't know the game so I can't answer anything anyway.)

Ivo Flipse

I can't reread the answers on both

radp

:153458 This is a good point however. If this particular asker agreed that the other questions were good enough, it can be left alone.

Ivo Flipse

14:45

but I'm fairly sure @tzenes will say that the answer in the original leaves out the unit he doesn't want to use

radp

At times tzenes makes it sound like questions you can't write an essay in reply to are not worth answering at all. Ever.

3

Ivo Flipse

Often, he is right. Often

C. Ross

he is rather single minded

he writes good essays though

radp

I'm not questioning the quality of his answers.

I just believe that, often, brevity is a value.

C. Ross

me too

and that is killing me on rpg where everyone writes bloody essays and votes them up

Ivo Flipse

14:53

off course, sometimes it's better to just post an image if it explains the answer, or a short list that sums things up

C. Ross

true

Ivo Flipse

Like so:

11

A: How to find the largest 10 files on Windows 7?

Try WinDirStat WinDirStat reads the whole directory tree once and then presents it in three useful views: The directory list, which resembles the tree view of the Windows Explorer but is sorted by file/subtree size, The treemap, which shows the whole contents of the directory ...

these kind of answers tend to do well :)

C. Ross

hmmm, I'll have to try that program ...

Ivo Flipse

TreeFileSize (I think) works well too

it just lists them top to bottom with the largest folders op top

radp

:153367 meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/63359/…

Arda Xi

15:05

@badp Grace Note has said before that an exact duplicate does not have to be an exact duplicate (despite the name) but merely a question with the same answers

if following a link to it answers the question it is a duplicate

tzenes

:153493 If an answer doesn't explain enough that you can't take the principals explained and re-derive the answer, then you're just giving a man a fish. I prefer to teach people how to fish.

radp

My point is that, while the points you make aren't terrible, they do have some serious flaws.

Reiterating your points does not address those flaws.

tzenes

I'm not sure how that is related to providing long answers...

but if my answers have such glaring flaws, then merely provide an answer without flaws

radp

Me neither. The essay comment was a side remark that I didn't include in the question.

I was talking about the points you make for closing the questions, not the points you make in your excellent answers.

tzenes

ah, perhaps I was confused since that wasn't what I was linking to

radp

15:11

I never meant that and I'm sorry if you read anything like that.

tzenes

my mistake entirely

radp

The question ended in the only possible way it could possibly end.

Closed as exact duplicate.

Fair enough!

tzenes

perhaps you could enlighten me as to these flaws? What is the ideal world you would construct for the banlist/harassment questions?

I'm not an unreasonable person I'm willing to reverse on this issue, I have on others before

radp

"I'm being harassed, what can I do?" sounds like a question looking for an answer about inter-gamers relationship

tzenes

so what answer would you see to that?

radp

15:17

I guess the best answer would detail pros and conses of the various options (ask for a ban that will never come? put on your ignore list, except he can still join the games you are in? whine on the forums to be subjected on public derision?) without necessarily going into how to do each

tzenes

ok

radp

"How to block a player" sounds instead like a question on how to operate the game's interface

"Is there a button I've missed somewhere? A webpage? Is it even possible?"

with a possible answer being "Yes, right click on him when you see him ingame and pick 'Block user'"

without discussing how this affects interpersonal relationships and whatnot

At least -- that's what I think.

tzenes

so what is the difference between the answer to the "block" question and the part of the answer to the "harassment" question which evaluates the pros and cons of selecting 'Block User'?

radp

I don't see why each would have to address the other.

They could for completeness, but that's not what the asker's asking.

tzenes

you don't see why they should link? or you don't see why 'Block User' is useful for the 'harassment' question?

radp

15:22

Hell, if the explaination is long enough, a technical explaination may break the flow on the "human" question.

I don't see why they shouldn't link.

I see that they are useful to each other, but each is not an answer to the other's question.

Just because you ask me how to boil rice, I don't want to know about the incredibly high nutritional value of rice

tzenes

perhaps I misunderstand, how is evaluating the pros and cons of selecting 'Block User' not useful to the 'block' question?

radp

It's just not what it's being asked!

That is not the wikipedia article on blocking

That is the question page on "How do I block"

tzenes

Are you sure? What are the pros and cons to selecting 'block user'? Well you still get matched with him, but he can't communicate in game our outside of game via chat.

if we look at his question knowing these pros and cons are very useful, since he specifically doesn't want to get matched

radp

sec

okay, I can't find that MSO question, nevermind

tzenes

"Is there a banlist or way to block certain players from being in the games you play?"

radp

15:26

Basically your answer would be "you could do it like this and that, but you don't want to because [that's not going to do what you think it's going to do](link to other question)"

tzenes

yes, I'm inferring what he's trying to ask from what he is asking

Ivo Flipse

yes, and everyone knows I hate to answer questions with no, you can't

radp

:153654 It might suck, but at times it's just the right answer.

tzenes

since there is no way (without breaking ToU) the only solution to keeping someone out of his game is getting them banned

radp

"How do I get 200k reputation in one day?"

tzenes

15:27

:153659 write essay replies

radp

:D

tzenes

sorry

radp

no problem, I deserved that one

Ivo Flipse

I actually mean, I don't like question where I have to answer that, I'd rather close them then :P

radp

:153658 Then "I'm sorry, there is no blocking mechanism in this game." is the correct answer.

(if blocking breaks the ToU like I think you said)

tzenes

15:28

and you don't think that answer would be useful to the harassment question?

radp

The harassment question then should have the "block the player" answer drowned, quartered then flamed and finally downvoted to hell

if you can't block the player

because it's an incorrect answer

(I think however I don't quite understand the logic chain that brought us here. I am assuming there is just no way to do anything one could call "blocking" the player)

tzenes

no I mean an answer, "You cannot prevent the game from matching you with a player in the game, but you can get them banned by..."

radp

as an answer to "How do I block somebody?"

tzenes

no, to the harassment

radp

Oh. Well, if blocking the player won't stop him from teamkilling you then blocking is not a correct answer.

The question body says the problem is specifically with teamkillers.

tzenes

15:33

yes, but knowing that is useful information if you're being teamkilled, if the answer doesn't contain that information, you might think blocking is a viable technique (as its name implies it is)

an answer which doesn't include that discussion is incomplete

radp

"How do I block a player?" "To block a player click here, here and here. This will block any communication between you and him, but doesn't block him from playing with or against you."

tzenes

but he's not asking about "where is the block button" he's asking "Is there a banlist or way to block certain players from being in the games you play?"

if he asked "Where is the block button" then I would agree with you

radp

Let me reread

Okay, the answer then is "No, there isn't. Report them for misbehaviour instead. [This answer](blah) has the full details."

Rad Scorpions. chuckle

tzenes

So the information: "there isn't anyway to prevent certain players from being in the games you play without getting them banned." is that useful or not to the question on harassment?

radp

Useful as a comment to the answer suggesting blocking? Definitely.

tzenes

15:39

but not as part of an answer explaining how to get them banned?

radp

If the question was "How to get them banned" yes

One question is "How to handle teamkillers?", one is "How can I choose people I don't want to play with?"

(It's amazing how many different wordings we're (I am?) finding for those questions)

tzenes

sorry, so you think this answer: gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/4958/… contains extraneous information?

radp

I'd say accessory.

tzenes

would you think it should be removed?

radp

No.

If I thought it should be removed, I'd have said extraneous :)

It's a justification of why reporting is the only way to go.

tzenes

15:43

is there anything the 'blocking' question would require that is not included here?

radp

Did somebody feel the question was not complete enough and there was some use to ask about more information on blocking?

tzenes

its possible they don't believe the answer, in which case they would

or is possible they are ok with violating ToU

in which case they're asking for a ToU violating method, which we can't give

LessPop_MoreFizz

"What tool should I use to disassemble my bicycle" and "What tool should I use to righten the pipes under my sink" are different questions, but the answer to both is "a Wrench". They aren't duplicates though, because each question benefits from different accessory information.

radp

Then you could cite faq's/terms/forum posts/anectodal evidence/unicorn tears that support your point

tzenes

@less what accessory information benefits the "block" question that doesn't benefit the "harassment" question?

radp

15:46

Information that wouldn't deserve more than a link in your answer about teamkillers

tzenes

:153771 technically closing as duplicate provides a link but I think we'd both agree that's beside the point

I cannot think of any information that I'd add to the 'block' question (that isn't extraneous) that I wouldn't also want to have on the 'harassment' question

radp

:153783 Sure, but the person apparently didn't find your answer clear/reliable enough

bbl, the cat requires my undiluted attention

LessPop_MoreFizz

:153783 I think the main point is that the idea of whether blocking a user (specifically as to how) is actually possible was never conclusively answered in the harassment question, primarily because reporting an abusive user is so much better as a course of action.

tzenes

People may not enjoy the answers they receive, but asking again isn't going to garner new information. Its just as likely he'll be unhappy with the answers to this new question and ask a third time or four and fifth and onward. I know we can't satisfy everyone, but what we can hope to do is collect information, and splitting this information between questions seems inherently wrong

LessPop_MoreFizz

Which in turn left the Block path hanging, and that meant the question of "is this actually possible? How?" was left hanging, because really, it's an ancillary passive-aggressive solution to the first choice.

tzenes

15:53

:153789 Then I'd say it was an incomplete answer, which is unfortunate

you'll notice it has since been updated to include that information

LessPop_MoreFizz

His question was never directly asked the first time though. It was kind of implied as possible by an answer in another question. That doesn't make it the answer to the other question.

tzenes

something that probably could have been solved with a series of comments

LessPop_MoreFizz

The answer to question A is : Report them. The answer to question B is: No, but you can stop them from chatting with you.

radp

:153795 That's quite possible

tzenes

yes, there was misleading information in another answer, there can be no question about that

radp

15:54

I'll go downvote that answer now

«If they're blocked you won't be matched with them in future games,» he says

tzenes

yeah, that's not true

I think that's why he asked the second question

radp

Why didn't you add a comment to that question then, calling BS on him?

tzenes

he believed there was more, when in reality there wasn't

sure

we just hit 2000

radp

It's quite apropos to have "Bounty started" abbreviated to "BS" after all

You're calling bullshit on everything that has been posted so far, in a way!

tzenes

16:19

haha

oh man, look at this answer: gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/6252/…

this is what I'm talking about

expert answers

radp

That sounds game-breakingly overpowered

tzenes

if I didn't have to go to work, I'd load up MW2 right now and test it

anyway, bbl

alexanderpas

MW2 is broken by definition... hacked servers anyone?

radp

16:44

So I have 33 days to gain 1k rep and keep at least edit/close privs once we go live

C. Ross

16:55

I only need 300 more, but their aren't the DF questions like there once were

my rep pool has dried up

Anyone think Gaming won't be made a full fledged site?

alexanderpas

:154029 I'm soon up for the Succession... so... we'll see what comes from that.

tzenes

@cross I think it'll go live, I'm not sure it'll be a success

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Sep '103

The Bridge

General Arqade Chat. We tried to leave once, but the door lock...

--gaming jin-fanclub lazers murder -politics -stars

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